Wei-Wu-Wei, paradox unraveled

[skydog]

Dear Sinan Sencer,

 

It is a little bit funny to make this discussion in English language as we are both Turkish.

 

In tasavvuf (sufism according to Westerners), God is a being (summe hasa, never a person) that judges you and also God is everything you are part of. I see you are a little bit confused. May I suggest to read "Suurlu Inanc" books Vol 1 and 2 in Turkish. Many things will be clarified for you.

 

In God's view, every human being has equal rights and God loves us all.

 

The only superiority of a human from another is to be closer to God, to have more progress in takva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwa) which means to be closer to God. For instance, a prophet has more takva than a normal person, he is more closer to God. Holy Quran wants every body to progress in takva, to be closer to God.

 

You are referring to Enel-Hak (Anā l-Ḥaqq) (http://en.wikipedia....ansur_Al-Hallaj) by asking if we are God? No, we are not God, but we have God's trust (emanet) in our hearts which consists of 99 beautiful names of God (http://en.wikipedia....of_God_in_Islam)

 

People living in Africa have been incarnated to those lives to pay debts of their previous lives. We have many reincarnations in order to be graduates of the school called "Earth" or "World"

 

Hello

 

I am half turkish but have lived in turkey until 4 years old, switzerland until 6 and have since lived in london, thus I know very little turkish, lovely place and people though. nice to have a fellow turk here, ah were all humans, earthlings, universlings anyways haa

 

Ok I see the being thing makes sense.

 

"God is everything you are a part of" This is basically saying "oneness, nothingness, emptiness"?

 

Do you have any books written on sufism to reccomend in English? I read a few books on sufism from osho, but Im sure it is a little skewed, my understanding seems to be that "buddhist or hindu or sufi or christian or taoist or zen enlightenment" is basically the same thing with different words, concepts and languages.

 

Any how I believe in Stillness movement neigong (lololol) and that which I cannot describe with words which may or may not be "allah or god", are words and beliefs and concepts really that important? Is it just a belief that they seperate, can one explain without speaking anything or using language, is language required or is it more about energy?

 

love sinan

Edited October 12, 2012 by sinansencer

[skydog]

From the Chocolate Buddha Box?

 

I wanted cookies so I bought them, wu wei!

[skydog]

I know you were being serious but I laughed anyhow. The fear of hell and suffering. Oh well.

 

I struggle to understand what e.t thoughts says lot too, but I think he was saying "this is heaven now, right here, if this was heaven this would be it" but the concepts and beliefs take one out of heaven.

[GrandmasterP]

Now a God made out of chocolate. That I could worship. Mind you the statues of him would soon get eaten in our house if those were made of chocolate too.

There's a chocolate shop in Leicester Shopping Mall [Thorntons???]

Has a sign in the window that says....

'Chocolate Heaven since 1911'

[GrandmasterP]

Lucy the Sufi who is one of the mediums who works at our centre recommends a book called

'The Knowledge Book' not sure who wrote it and not read it but it's one she recommends to anyone interested in deeper side of Sufism. Lucy is Turkish but she's lived here for years. Good medium, always busy.

Osho is OK there's one of his books on Rumi . Trouble with Osho though he was a bit of a squirrel. Picking and choosing bits from everywhere. I do like his Chuang Tzu gloss though....'When the Shoe Fits' that is very funny yet also very profound.

[Marblehead]

Boy, I sure got the thread off topic, didn't I? Hehehe. (No, I'm not feeling any guilt.)

 

Sinan said: I struggle to understand what e.t thoughts says lot too, but I think he was saying "this is heaven now, right here, if this was heaven this would be it" but the concepts and beliefs take one out of heaven.

 

Yes, if we are saying that heaven is right here right now then I agree. Of course, hell could be right here right now too.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

Pie in the sky when you die

or

Chocolate cookies now

 

Marblehead's has to be the more practical Wu-Wei 'way'.

ET' method depends on doing something now with a view to some kinda spiritual payoff eventually... maybe.

Marblehead's way gets the goodies... right now.

Gentlemen.... We have a WINNER.

;-)

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[skydog]

Pie in the sky when you die

or

Chocolate cookies now

 

Marblehead's has to be the more practical Wu-Wei 'way'.

ET' method depends on doing something now with a view to some kinda spiritual payoff eventually... maybe.

Marblehead's way gets the goodies... right now.

Gentlemen.... We have a WINNER.

;-)

 

When I did a vipassana retreat in India these were my thoughts on comparing vipassana to spontaneous movement.

 

Self torture so you can get to some spiritual payoff eventually (not now and possibly not even later)

versus fun, joy gentle movement which is paying off now and probably even more so later.

 

However I cannot comment on ideas of heaven and hell.

 

oh and thanks for the book reccomendation grandmaster p

Edited October 13, 2012 by sinansencer

[Marblehead]

Don't be looking for me - I'm hiding eating my chocolate cookies.

[winniepooh_ank]

Bodrum was a favourite holiday destination for us when we still flew to travel. Plus the obligatory Camel Coach overnight journey to enjoy three days in Sultanahmet District of Istanbul for shopping. We always stayed in Istanbul at the Nilton Hotel [ike the Hilton but much much cheaper] Lovely city, lovely people.

I was trying to say that any God who needs believers to do somethng for him or her is not much of a God.

:-)

 

Sir,

 

God created us for evolution. In sufism a good metaphor for this is thinking us like water droplets. Water droplets that evaporate, become rain, goes in a river and finally reaches the sea again.

 

This evolution is infinite as God is also infinite. The spirits that reach e certain level become one with God. These are known as "we" or "us" in Holy Quran. In Holy Quran sometimes plural pronouns are used such as "We have created you" and sometimes singular such as "God (Allah) is great". The holy spirits who has become one with God rules and manages the lower realms by the authority given to them by God. When these Holy Spirits incarnate in the world, they live as prophets and saints.

 

In Islam, prophet Muhammed is the highest level of these spirits and that is the reason he is the last prophet.

 

As a summary, God wants all the spirits that incarnate as human beings to evolve such that they reach the level of "we" in Holy Quran.

 

Obviously, God does not need us but we need God. If God did not created us, we would not exist today.

 

Thank you for your kind words about Turkey. I have been to London in 1985 and it was a lovely city.

Edited October 13, 2012 by winniepooh_ank

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[XieJia]

Don't be looking for me - I'm hiding eating my chocolate cookies.

 

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[winniepooh_ank]

Hello

 

I am half turkish but have lived in turkey until 4 years old, switzerland until 6 and have since lived in london, thus I know very little turkish, lovely place and people though. nice to have a fellow turk here, ah were all humans, earthlings, universlings anyways haa

 

Ok I see the being thing makes sense.

 

"God is everything you are a part of" This is basically saying "oneness, nothingness, emptiness"?

 

Do you have any books written on sufism to reccomend in English? I read a few books on sufism from osho, but Im sure it is a little skewed, my understanding seems to be that "buddhist or hindu or sufi or christian or taoist or zen enlightenment" is basically the same thing with different words, concepts and languages.

 

Any how I believe in Stillness movement neigong (lololol) and that which I cannot describe with words which may or may not be "allah or god", are words and beliefs and concepts really that important? Is it just a belief that they seperate, can one explain without speaking anything or using language, is language required or is it more about energy?

 

love sinan

 

Dear Sinan,

 

My brother's name is also Sinan, I am regarding you as a brother.

 

In English language, I can recommend Robert Frager's books on Sufism. Especially, his book "Heart, Self and Soul: A Sufi Approach to Growth, Balance and Harmony" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-4) is a must read. The most important concept for Westerners is the concept of Nafs (Nefs in Turkish) which means self. This book explains the seven levels of nafs (yes nafs is also related with seven chakra) and also a very good chapter about heart.

 

I can also recommend "Essential Sufism" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-3) gives a general look.

 

I can also recommend Kabir Helminski's books. One of them is "The Knowing Heart: A Sufi Path of Transformation" (http://www.amazon.co...50142046&sr=1-2)

 

Please stay away from Osho. He is negative.

 

I practiced Xing Shen Zhuang Fa (XSZF) and Sheng Zheng Gong (SZG) Level 1&2 of David Verdesi, a preliminary exercises to be practiced from Neigong (NG) Level 1.

 

I have close friends who has also practiced who has practiced the whole set XSZF, SZG, NG. I know sifus of John Chang, Wang Liping, Jiang Sifu and other real masters who has real powers too.

 

Neigong powers are just too dangerous both physically and spiritually. Remember master of John Chang killing everybody in the village when he was level 30. Even you are level 72 in Thunderpath, you still have nafs, and with great powers you may do really great evil if you obey Satan even for a minute.

 

If you really want to practice something, for instance practice Zhan Zhuang with Lam Kam Chuen. since you are in UK. You may also practice taijiquan.

Edited October 13, 2012 by winniepooh_ank

[winniepooh_ank]

There is a fundamental contradiction in what you just posted...

either evolution is infinite and the notion of the highest level is out the window

or evolution is finite and there be the highest level

 

BTW I agree with most of what you said...

Indeed God created us for evolution.

God also created us to love and be loved

God also created us for many other reasons...

Indeed This evolution is infinite as God is also infinite.

 

Indeed The spirits that reach e certain level become one with God.

though its the other way around: God becomes one with the spirits that reach a certain level

God can choose to become one with the spirits at any level

it is just that God respects the decision of the spirits to accept God or reject God

I believe we ought to discern as God discerns to understand what God desires of us

Whomever has become one with God thanks to God has the authority given to them by God

it is just that they respects the decision of God to accept God ... and do as God would do...

 

There is no contradiction. Evolution is infinite. I named a certain level in evolution to be one with God. But God is also infinite. So evolution still continues after being one with God.

 

The best example of evolution for Muslims is the life of our Prophet Mohammed. He prayed to God to create other beings like himself, God had accepted his wish and created this world and all other realms connected to this world. God also gave the duty to Prophet Mohammed to be the highest level of manager to manage the realms that would be created with his prayer. As a very high spirit, Mohammed may have stayed within God's realms, however he chose to be a prophet and help other spirits in their evolutions. All of us have been created due to his prayer. (All of us means, the human race which started with Adam and Eve)

Edited October 13, 2012 by winniepooh_ank

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[winniepooh_ank]

To me the best example is the life of Jesus Christ ... I am curious how and if you see Him...

From my perspective God creates us because God chose to create us... out of love for love in love.

What is somewhat curious is that what you say about Prophet Mohammed to me would be something that applies to Jesus Christ... it a way we may just be referring to the same being with different names ... in any event God's created the human race!

 

Oh and for those who believe that ancient extraterrestrials genetically engineered and creates us... I would say that sure many beings collaborated and carried out God's plan.

 

Jesus Christ is one of the most important prophets in Islam. Of course, we love him and show respect to him. He is a great man. But we believe that he is not son of God.

 

In order to undertand this, one has to look at prophet Abraham (roughly 1900 B.C.) He had two vies, Sarah and Hagar.

From Sarah, he had the son prophet Isaac. All the Jewish prophets including Jesus Christ come from this blood.

From Hagar, he had the son prophet Ishmael. Only one prophet came from this blood, which is prophet Mohammed.

 

All the prophets are the one the same from one point of view. In fact, Jesus Christ foretold prophet Mohammed in Gospels of Barnaba (http://en.wikipedia....pel_of_Barnabas)

 

They are not the same person. Prophet Mohammed is Habib (beloved, sweetheart) of God. As being the Habib, he is the one that have the biggest takva, being closer to God. That is the reason he is the last prophet and God has sent Holy Quran, the most developed book (which has remained unchanged unlike Bible) to guide humanity.

 

The ET.s do not have the permission to intervene humanity. They had no role in the creation of human beings.

Edited October 14, 2012 by winniepooh_ank

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[skydog]

Dear Sinan,

 

My brother's name is also Sinan, I am regarding you as a brother.

 

In English language, I can recommend Robert Frager's books on Sufism. Especially, his book "Heart, Self and Soul: A Sufi Approach to Growth, Balance and Harmony" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-4) is a must read. The most important concept for Westerners is the concept of Nafs (Nefs in Turkish) which means self. This book explains the seven levels of nafs (yes nafs is also related with seven chakra) and also a very good chapter about heart.

 

I can also recommend "Essential Sufism" (http://www.amazon.co...50141604&sr=1-3) gives a general look.

 

I can also recommend Kabir Helminski's books. One of them is "The Knowing Heart: A Sufi Path of Transformation" (http://www.amazon.co...50142046&sr=1-2)

 

Please stay away from Osho. He is negative.

 

I practiced Xing Shen Zhuang Fa (XSZF) and Sheng Zheng Gong (SZG) Level 1&2 of David Verdesi, a preliminary exercises to be practiced from Neigong (NG) Level 1.

 

I have close friends who has also practiced who has practiced the whole set XSZF, SZG, NG. I know sifus of John Chang, Wang Liping, Jiang Sifu and other real masters who has real powers too.

 

Neigong powers are just too dangerous both physically and spiritually. Remember master of John Chang killing everybody in the village when he was level 30. Even you are level 72 in Thunderpath, you still have nafs, and with great powers you may do really great evil if you obey Satan even for a minute.

 

If you really want to practice something, for instance practice Zhan Zhuang with Lam Kam Chuen. since you are in UK. You may also practice taijiquan.

 

Thanks for the post I am honoured by your love and also think of you as a brother

 

I will get those books, many thanks, yes some people on this board have pointed out stuff about osho.

 

Stillness movement neigong is neigong, but imo it is very legit, many members on this board who have experimented with many practices fully attest to this lineage, whereas verdesi etc is known as a little shady and business like etc.

 

Michael teaches that morality, calmness and practicing stillness movement is the requirement for good practices, I hope that perhaps you can check out his book "ya mu" on here or even take a look at my personal practice journal, I also find it a great method because I can literally do it 24 hours a day

 

However I am also leaning towards mutually cultivating love and morality, whatever gets me there is what gets me there, michael says dont be overly concerned between buddhism/taoism etc because they are all about the same essence

 

Nevertheless I contemplate your message and I would take this as a sign of respect because normally I would be less likely to do so.

 

Have a nice day

 

Love sinan

[winniepooh_ank]

Thanks for the post I am honoured by your love and also think of you as a brother

 

I will get those books, many thanks, yes some people on this board have pointed out stuff about osho.

 

Stillness movement neigong is neigong, but imo it is very legit, many members on this board who have experimented with many practices fully attest to this lineage, whereas verdesi etc is known as a little shady and business like etc.

 

Michael teaches that morality, calmness and practicing stillness movement is the requirement for good practices, I hope that perhaps you can check out his book "ya mu" on here or even take a look at my personal practice journal, I also find it a great method because I can literally do it 24 hours a day

 

However I am also leaning towards mutually cultivating love and morality, whatever gets me there is what gets me there, michael says dont be overly concerned between buddhism/taoism etc because they are all about the same essence

 

Nevertheless I contemplate your message and I would take this as a sign of respect because normally I would be less likely to do so.

 

Have a nice day

 

Love sinan

 

Sinan,

 

I am sorry, but who is Michael? I really do not know him?

 

I can only say, Neigong, but real Neigong, can only be learnt from a real master who comes from a real lineage. There are many fake masters out there, claiming to teach Neigong, which is garbage. Do not misunderstand me, I have no idea about this Mr. Michael so I am not talking about him. But those fake neigong masters can really be harmful for your health. If you do not know what you are doing, just don't do it. İt is especially valid for breathing exercises. Breathing exercises which say to hold breath or to close left or right nose etc, unnatural breathings will give you a nervous breakdown. Be careful.

 

Even if you find a real master with real powers not just words, not cheap tricks, real powers, it is again dangerous as I mentioned previously. Please stay away from neigong if you listen to me as your elder and experienced brother. And trust me, my teoretical knowledge about Neigong, Qigong is much better than 90% of people in this forum.

 

Best Regards,

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts