winniepooh_ank Posted October 14, 2012 Thank you for your response... Right now I have basically to ideas running through my mind: - how to keep this thread on what we are dialoguing - how to respect the original thread topic of wei-wu-wei paradox unraveled Maybe we can do both at the same time. (I am going to cut and paste words and ideas as I see fit to make a point, the intent is to push/pull towards better understanding, clarity and insights. If someone feels/thinks/believes I have misrepresented something I would ask that they be specific the text ( ) was misrepresed ( ) because ( ). ) OK lets give it a go... in the beginning everything declared : Wei wu wei is action that is so purely focused, there is no other action, wei wu wei. - the only action that does not contradict itself! Having nothing outside of it; All that exists, having nothing outside of it, because it is all that exists. There IS NO "non-existance." Non-existance DOES NOT EXIST. It can not be itself even. First of notice that when 'Non-existance DOES NOT EXIST'. It is being itself! Having what exists outside of it is a bit different than having nothing outside of it. For some reason many believe that the void-notingness is the original from where everything comes rather than realize that 'the before time' only exists 'when time be' . Before time there was no before, just as after time there is no after, time gives rise to before and after, without time, there isn't a before nor an after. In a similar way existence gives rise to the existence of everything that exists. Without existence the nonexistence of the nonexistence existing is impossible. First existence exists. The action that does substantiate itself by being itself! At some point somehow someone or something created 'contradiction' that gives raise to duality, the existence of the non-existence existing different from it natural state of nonexistence. In contradiction, what exists as non-existence being non-existing, becomes aware of its non-existence and wants to be what is rather than just be what it is not . Curious that in seeking to be what is not it contradict itself and feeds 'contradiction'. If Wei wu wei is action that is so purely focused, there is no other action... then its evident that nonexistence feeing contradiction violates this premise... Everything that exists exists containing it all - even the existence of the wannabe non-existence! To some it may be evident that the existence existing stems from God being God. I would like to continue with the tangential topic... yea two men walk into a bar and start to talk about God rather than get inebriated like everyone else makes for quite a good joke... but hey let us be, if you want to join in you are welcomed, though it may make you become a bit sober... Related to the beliefs of Jesus Christ is not the son of God... Jesus Christ IS the son of God... it seem denying men be the son of God creates a contradiction in beliefs of some individuals. Besides it all boils down to what and who each choose to believe and it that corresponds to the truth! Personally rather than falling for the original temptation of discerning by myself what be good and what be bad I entrust God to ensure I get it. What book, what scripture, what stories we believe and which we believe not? They all depend on the issue of how does one know that the interpretation one has corresponds to what God intended? I know God can guide humanity and anyone for that matter through individual divine interactions, in mysterious ways... Oh I have seen answers put on billboards, prayers answered with rainbows that appear in all sort of divine instances... without a cloud to be seen... the rainbow appears... be it day be it night the rainbow shines... What role each plays to guide humanity is an interesting notion to wonder and ponder. May God enlighten each to the truth. What if humanity gets tricked into giving their permission and consent to be intervened? Are you sure that 'others' have had no role in the creation of the beings we be? Here I am being quite general... for I believe we be constantly invited to participate in the creation and cultivation of ourselves and others... what will each feed and create and sustain? Dear Et-thoughts, You should read the works of famous sufi, Ibn Arabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Arabi) and Rumi. For Ibn Arabi, may I suggest: "Sufism and Taoism: A Comparative Study of Key Philosophical Concepts" by Toshihiko Izutsu (http://www.amazon.com/Sufism-Taoism-Comparative-Philosophical-Concepts/dp/0520052641/ref=la_B001IZ1D1G_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1350238008&sr=1-4) "Bezels of Wisdom" (http://www.amazon.com/Ibn-Al-Arabi-Bezels-Classics-Western-Spirituality/dp/0809123312/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350238178&sr=1-1&keywords=Ibn+Arabi) Meccan Revelations" (http://www.amazon.com/Meccan-Revelations-I-Ibn-alArabi/dp/1879708167/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350238445&sr=1-7&keywords=Ibn+Arabi) The discussion about Jesus Christ is very delicate. Remember that I have been accused of Proselytizing people. I do not want to cause any problems. I have already stated how we muslims see Jesus Christ. But this discussion should be made over Holy Quran and Bible not over prophet Mohammed and Jesus Christ. Please get an Holy Quran translation in your native language and try to read it. It is unchanged, even a single letter, it has been kept as original that has sent by God to our prophet. It is for every human being on this planet. Best Regards, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Sinan, I am sorry, but who is Michael? I really do not know him? I can only say, Neigong, but real Neigong, can only be learnt from a real master who comes from a real lineage. There are many fake masters out there, claiming to teach Neigong, which is garbage. Do not misunderstand me, I have no idea about this Mr. Michael so I am not talking about him. But those fake neigong masters can really be harmful for your health. If you do not know what you are doing, just don't do it. İt is especially valid for breathing exercises. Breathing exercises which say to hold breath or to close left or right nose etc, unnatural breathings will give you a nervous breakdown. Be careful. Even if you find a real master with real powers not just words, not cheap tricks, real powers, it is again dangerous as I mentioned previously. Please stay away from neigong if you listen to me as your elder and experienced brother. And trust me, my teoretical knowledge about Neigong, Qigong is much better than 90% of people in this forum. Best Regards, Well basically because I was projected his lineage, I am always going to be doing nei gong, the practice is *edited*.Basically the original form of qigong- trance dance from bushmen but slightly different or ecstatic dance, I think sufis have these kind of dances which are like ecstatic dance and sufi whirling is almost like zhang zhuang (however you spell it) It is Michael Lomax here is a link on this site. http://thetaobums.co...k/page__st__288 I do not wish to disclose his method to everyone (even though this is not the complete thing) so I will edit once you have read Edited October 14, 2012 by sinansencer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winniepooh_ank Posted October 14, 2012 Well basically because I was projected his lineage, I am always going to be doing nei gong, the practice is basically spontaneous movement, while staying in dan tien and empty and relaxing the body.Basically the original form of qigong- trance dance from bushmen but slightly different or ecstatic dance, I think sufis have these kind of dances which are like ecstatic dance and sufi whirling is almost like zhang zhuang (however you spell it) It is Michael Lomax here is a link on this site. http://thetaobums.co...k/page__st__288 I do not wish to disclose his method to everyone (even though this is not the complete thing) so I will edit once you have read Sinan, In my understanding Mr. Lomax is doing qigong not neigong. That is all I can say at the moment without further research. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted October 14, 2012 ok then we are on the same page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustARandomPanda Posted October 16, 2012 The act of peeing is wu wei. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 16, 2012 The act of peeing is wu wei. I thought that was wee wee. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 17, 2012 As long as you don't desire to empty your bladder. To desire or not desire. If one gotta pee, one gotta pee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 17, 2012 True indeed, but one is Wu Wei, and one's just Wee Wee. Also true, interesting is that we are all trained to hold our bowels since we were babies. Would the person wee-ing naturally be thinking about "nature" or simply wee-ing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted October 17, 2012 Don't forget that wu-wei was the actual method of realization of the ancient Sages... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) apologies breathing might be more appropriate Edited October 17, 2012 by XieJia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 17, 2012 apologies breathing might be more appropriate I will suggest that breathing is very important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 17, 2012 Don't forget that wu-wei was the actual method of realization of the ancient Sages... they are really marvelous bunches, glad they left us with some texts and wonderful instructions. I was meaning that breathing might be more appropriate for Wuwei example than weeing. I will suggest that breathing is very important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Wu-wei encompass all the pranayama. We think of the ancient Sages as the best practitioners ever existed, so they practiced the "core" stuff. Chapter 37 of DDJ says: The Tao is constant in non-action Yet there is nothing it does not do If the sovereign can hold on to this All things shall transform themselves Transformed, yet wishing to achieve I shall restrain them with the simplicity of the nameless The simplicity of the nameless They shall be without desire Without desire, using stillness The world shall steady itself Edited October 17, 2012 by DAO rain TAO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted November 7, 2012 Everything is nothing; nothing: everything. Within the whole sum of all things, there is an empty space of "nothing" between each "thing" that makes up the fabric of all things, and in the deep recess of a wholeness of "nothing", smaaaaaalllllll parts of the fabric of things drift about, seemingly aimlessly. in union with nothing, in union with everything. I speak nonsense; between the senseless notions are sensible things spoken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted November 7, 2012 The sate of being without desire : ... involves a state of having abundant satisfactions ... ... where all desirable desires are satisfied ... or in the process of being satisfied ... where the undesirable desires are not even desired nor satisfied. This is the Qabbalist view in which desires evolves into one another until one reach the supreme desire for God. This involves the fulfillment of desires. But I think that desires cannot be stopped in that way. If I'm hungry today and I eat until I'm plenty of food, that does not means that tomorrow I will not be hungry. If I have sex with a beautiful girl today until I cannot have more, this does not means that tomorrow I will not. The daoist way is moderation to keep "desires" as little as possibile. The heart is in peace and Qi flows abundantly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 7, 2012 Good post, I think, and yes, I do agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted November 7, 2012 Yep, needs not wants. All desire is illusory cos the object of the desire or want is of necessity not present when the desire is happening. Huge waste of energy is desiring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted November 8, 2012 to see the world without desire is not a desire, nor is it a challenge, but as plain as the left hand, right foot, or maybe a boulder falling down a mountain. it is what it is, as all things are in their being. Why pick and choose of things the ego plays before your mind when you can just watch these things as though a movie and maintain your separate role? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
