Do you "belong to"/follow any particular tradition?

[Unseen_Abilities]

As the thread title suggests, I'm curious to know how many of you guys follow one particular tradition. If you do, what is it? How did you come to find a home there?

 

One thing I've noticed in myself, is that I seem to, at times, feel some kind of need or desire to find one particular tradition to follow, as it seems that would make things a fair bit more certain. But, on the other hand, I have a distaste for dogma and being told how to do things, and I think that's why I haven't settled on anything concrete as of yet. This little conundrum used to frustrate me, but now I try and just chuckle to/at myself

 

How do you personally feel about people who borrow bits and pieces from various sources and combine/mash them together to form their own system? For example, I find myself really interested in both Zen Buddhism and Western occultism, but when I start thinking about how I'd like to combine them I get a nagging little voice in my mind that questions whether it's "okay" or "right" to do that. I don't even know who I think I'm going to offend I know there's probably some purists out there (not necessarily on these boards) who would frown on this, and I'd be interested in hearing from them as well as people who do practice syncretism.

 

Peace, bums.

Edited October 2, 2012 by T.S

[GrandmasterP]

We were chatting about lineages elsewhere.

Some covet lineage rather like some Xtians value apostolic succession.

The Buddhist Boards such as Dharma Wheel are full of plonks shouting 'my lineage is better than yours' at one another.

Quite sweet really.

IMHO (GM Chang Lineage) Lineage tdoes not matter a toss and the more one makes of one's chosen or identified-with lineage thn thee further one could well be away from what it is that the lineage seeks to transmit.

What works for one cultivator will not suit another hence the wide variety on offer.

No one 'needs' a master in the early stages and when someone is ready then a master will appear. Not by magic as a rule but by synchronicity, which is like magic; but different.

[Unseen_Abilities]

Thanks for the reply GrandmasterP...what you say makes a lot of sense. I just have to work out how to let go of this desire/need I sometimes feel to belong to a particular tradition...or maybe the problem is that I'm trying to work it out in the first place.

[GrandmasterP]

As far as doing mix 'n match I'd say carry on and do it in good health if it works for you right now.

'Guilt' isn't a Taoist sentiment, if it was wrong, what the heck; you've learnt not to try it again.

Zen and Occultism sounds like fun.

Zazen plus turning your enemies into frogs. Cool

 

Eventually if folk stick with this path then they find a cultivation that suits them, cultivate it in a disciplined fashion and at some point a master pops up. Boruing as it sounds the only effective cultivation is one stuck at for a long time with dedication and discipline aiming to get better and learn without being sidetracked by some other novelty. Changing approaches like changing socks is the norm hence lots of beginners very few teachers and hardly any Masters. But cultivation is a like river wherein a mouse can paddle in te shallows and an elephant swim in te deeps, there is room for everybody. You just have to step into the water first so that you can begin.

 

Disciplined cultivation does kinda mean eventually cultivating in some sort of centre be it a temple or a dojo or something where other people are doing much the same thing as you are doing. Otherwise YOYO (You are On Your Own). Those places tend to pop up before your eyes as and when you need them. Fact is they were there all the time but you didn't notice them. Synchronicity is a bit like owning a blue car then swapping it for a new red car. All of a sudden you notice just how many red cars there are on the roads. They were always there but you were not invested in noticing them before you bought that new n'shiny red car.

You get to that stage where you are cultivating successfully and happily as part of a 'tribe' then some red car from that tribe might well point you towards a master or you'll discer a master yourself.

It's an old way but a tried and tested one.

[GrandmasterP]

.

Edited October 2, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Protector]

Christianity blends surprisingly well with Hinduism and Buddhism but I would start with Judaism and when taking it into Christianity, add Taoism. For going into the New Testament there is needed a special guide, I forgot what's it called but Masonic bible should do fine. Eastern Orthodox bible is the biggest one so you're interested in additional notes, check that one out.

[GrandmasterP]

“…….lineage assertions are as wrong as they are strong.” (McRae, xix)

 

McRae, R. (2003): Seeing Through Zen, Encounter, Transformation, and Genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism. Berkeley: University of California Press.

 

[Stosh]

Mashing traditions together all by onesself is a long and difficult road

Then again the traditions at hand ,

in large part ,,are THEMSELVES, mashed together syncretions by predecessors

out of even earlier traditions.

Whatever you find for yourself which brings you happiness or spirituality or meaning

or harmony with society ...

has earned its own validity.

Hasnt it?

Stosh

[doc benway]

If I were to subscribe to a single tradition, I would say it is awareness.

I try to pay attention to myself, my behavior, my thoughts, my relationships.

I try to see myself not just through my own filter but through the eyes of others.

I came to it through a combination of influences - Krishnamurti, Demello, Osho, Watts, Daoist meditation, Acceptance/Commitment Therapy.

 

All traditions contain truth - sometimes very obvious, often buried and subtle.

Truth has no religion or tradition.

You will find bits and pieces everywhere you look if you are diligent and sensitive.

[GrandmasterP]

That is SO right Stosh. Even the so called purists are following a mish mash of traditions because in each generation something is added or dropped so someone claiming ancient lineage today will be cultivating in some ways that would be unrecognisable to the guy who started the lineage off. Trick is to stick with what works for you BUT really stick to it avoiding changing cultivation like some folk change socks.

Lineage is a substitute religion for some. I posted similar thoughts to this on a Buddhist site and was flamed from all directions. Never let it be said that Buddhism is everywhere a way of peace. Not on some internet it isn't.

;-)

[silas]

Classical Taoism embraces syncretism. Tao preceds all the gods, because Tao is not a god. Syncretism allows you to find a religous practice that is in accord with your inborn nature and the path of your destiny. Strengthening your inner Te and attaining destiny, however, you do it, are the main goals of classical Taoism, which are the means to return to Tao intact.

Edited October 3, 2012 by silas

[idiot_stimpy]

I am not locked into anything.

[Aetherous]

I've tried to become involved in various traditions...there is a kind of glamor to be identified with some famous (or infamous) occult group...but it's too unnatural. My intuition inevitably leads me away every single time. Sometimes they aren't nearly as good as what's simply public knowledge...like the Taoist practices and philosophies. Or in my opinion, Christian teachings. Sometimes the people involved in various lineages seem incredibly corrupt, and sort of stupid, upon closer inspection.

 

Do you have the strength to stand on your own two feet?

[konchog uma]

I have taken refuge vows, bodhisattva vows, and lay vows in the Kagyu (Tibetan Vajrayana) Buddhist tradition.

 

I relate to the rime approach however, and mostly consider myself to be non-sectarian, and open to Buddhism beyond the bounds of Tibetan Vajrayana. Jigten Sumgon's idea of gonchog, or that all the branches of teaching were essentially about one thing, awakening to our true and liberated nature, makes a lot of sense to me.

 

For a long time i would not self-identify as any particular "-ist" but over time my studies of Buddhism have led me to deepen my practice in that tradition. I agree turtle shell, everything a person needs to progress very very far is out there in the public domain. So many traditions are just out there like here is our practices and 5000 books available if you need something to read, but sooo many people think they need something "special".. like if its free its worthless

[Goddodin]

I could have written the first post myself... No tradition for me at the moment, although I remain open to the idea of following one if the 'right one' came along. This used to bother me a lot; I thought my practices had no validity unless I was within a proper tradition, but I have dropped that obsession a little now. Like the poster above, Krishnamurti & some other Advaita teachers were quite key to this, (Douglas Harding in particular) and now largely I am happy going my own way. The one thing I do miss though is the focus and aesthetics of a tradition - I think it may keep me a little more focused than I am now.

 

In terms of practices I keep things pretty safe and just do a mindfulness based practice. Jon Kabbat Zinn desrcibes himself as a non-Buddhist who practices meditation which probably sums me up too.

[Cat Pillar]

It's interesting...I still get a little confused when people talk about mixing Christianity with other faiths.

 

I was raised Christian, and it was always pretty explicitly taught that ALL other faiths are false, and the ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. Anything else is worshipping idols. (also mediumship and magic/occult were expressly forbidden).

 

Of course, I was raised in a fundamentalist (though non-denominational) sect. I'm still working through some bitterness towards that faith...it messed me up pretty badly.

 

Although, I have to admit it wasn't all bad. I was a really strong believer when I was younger, and I DO think that helped me develop compassion and kindness (trying to act Christ-like). I just seemed to take it a lot more seriously than anyone around me and I got disillusioned when I realized that no one else really seemed to care about actually following the faith.

[Aetherous]

I was raised Christian, and it was always pretty explicitly taught that ALL other faiths are false, and the ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. Anything else is worshipping idols. (also mediumship and magic/occult were expressly forbidden).

 

In my opinion, you were taught almost entirely incorrectly. Especially with the idea that all other faiths are false. But that kind of idea is representative of a lot of what passes for Christianity. It's unfortunate and has led to so many problems in our world. But Christianity has done a lot of good, too. Sticky situation.

 

Studying the Bible (including its history according to the experts), rather than the modern church's ideas, is the key to gaining a real understanding. You should feel free to come away with your own interpretation of what's in the Bible. I recommend that you focus on Jesus' words. That is especially important, since the entire religion is supposed to be about following his teachings. Funny how the exact opposite often occurs. Jesus personally recommended James as his successor, according to the Gospel of Thomas...that's definitely a good book of the NT to delve into.

 

You don't have to call yourself a Christian in order to appreciate some passages of the Bible.

[Seth Ananda]

It's interesting...I still get a little confused when people talk about mixing Christianity with other faiths.

 

I was raised Christian, and it was always pretty explicitly taught that ALL other faiths are false, and the ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. Anything else is worshipping idols. (also mediumship and magic/occult were expressly forbidden).

 

Hehe, one of the things l Love about all those Hybrid Christian/Shamanistic religions, is exactly this. They use the beautiful or inspirational parts of the church and toss the rest.

 

A Christian looks at them from out side, and is appalled. He tells them "You just don't 'get' it... religion is about words in a book! and you dont follow those words"

 

The Shaman sees the Christians reading from their books, and debating text. She says "You just don't get it! Religion is not about words, its about direct lived experience!"

 

I side with the latter.

[Jetsun]

..the ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ..

 

But what does Christ represent? in most churches and stain glass art etc Christ is depicted at the heart, especially in the Gothic churches which are built as a macrocosm of the human body you find Christ at the heart. You find salvation through the heart or if you believe some masters there is one single sacred fibre of the heart. The kingdom of God is within you, and our bodies are microcosms of the universe so whatever Christ represents in the outside world is also within you.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

 

Has anyone ever just taken every single quote from JC out of the Bible and compiled into a "pure" source of information?

 

+ what does He... represent really?

 

Christ being a title like Buddha.

 

When N declared "God is Dead" ... I think humanity died also

 

I think give or take people in general are worse off without religion... there is no standard of goodness even conceptually ... nothing to aspire to... just the material / greed

 

Now religion may seem oppressive to some... to others it may be considered liberating... all depending on ones view...

 

Eg the Taoist cultivation methods... some many call oppressive.... though we know better right?

 

If the Taoist says... you must retain your jing for this and this and to live a virtuous life...

 

Similar to fasting... oh that is oppressive... though people who have practiced it know of its benefits and find it liberating...

 

so basically we have this spectrum of "humanity"

 

from psychopaths to empathic types.... from those happily dwelling in the hell realms to those sitting on clouds... I did use animal as a standard of low consciousness... though I believe the very opposite so i will do away with that common standard.

 

I think we may need religion to keep the lower consciousness under control... seeing as they have no regard for the free will of others... therefore they give up that right...

 

Whereas if you say thou shalt not commit adultery ... that is reasonably straight forward and for most good honest respecting people a given.

 

Though people wish to descend into baseness... so they say oh...this is oppressive... it is evil... etc

 

trying to justify their own 'wickedness'?

 

From what perspective... I think all these things can be reasoned easily...

 

We don't live in an ideal world... so guidance at some level is needed.

 

This is my current position.

 

How? and What... not sure... though people need to understand the why.... why do we fast... this this this

 

why do we practice virtue.. this this this etc...

 

move back to philosophy... we can't really force... though we can convince? or try hahahah...

 

I think I got a little mixed up with the religion thread too ha..hm

Edited October 4, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

The advantage of belonging to a like minded group be it Dojo ore Temple,Centre or even a Class is that there is mutual support and usually a qualified teacher on hand.

Beyond a certain poit in cultivation [which varies depending on each individual] it's tough to progress alone. There's a barrier of boredom or maybe lethargy or discouragement when a lot give up and turn to something new. A supportive group can help folk surmount barriers. The flip side of course is that not all groups are supportive. Some can be toxic whilst a few are thinly disguised money spinners for one or two at the top. The village hall class or friendly Dojo or centre type places can be much better than some of the posh places. I had an email yesterday inviting me to one such for an 'exclusive transmission' led by one of the big names. £350-00 for a one-off three hour gig. I replied with apologies for non attendance. In some quarters the title Sifu seems to now translate as 'Merchandise Peddler'.

[eye_of_the_storm]

In regards Buddhism and Christian....

 

How does... a lone man sitting under a tree for 49 days or a lone man spending 40 days in the desert... both fasting in nature

 

reaching dot dot dot.... = above ^

 

both are anarchists... both wanted to change up the system... both didn't give a stuff about anything, anyone elses thoughts.... they just did their own thing BaDABOOM

[寒月 Hanyue]

As the thread title suggests, I'm curious to know how many of you guys follow one particular tradition. If you do, what is it? How did you come to find a home there?

 

One thing I've noticed in myself, is that I seem to, at times, feel some kind of need or desire to find one particular tradition to follow, as it seems that would make things a fair bit more certain. But, on the other hand, I have a distaste for dogma and being told how to do things, and I think that's why I haven't settled on anything concrete as of yet. This little conundrum used to frustrate me, but now I try and just chuckle to/at myself

 

How do you personally feel about people who borrow bits and pieces from various sources and combine/mash them together to form their own system? For example, I find myself really interested in both Zen Buddhism and Western occultism, but when I start thinking about how I'd like to combine them I get a nagging little voice in my mind that questions whether it's "okay" or "right" to do that. I don't even know who I think I'm going to offend I know there's probably some purists out there (not necessarily on these boards) who would frown on this, and I'd be interested in hearing from them as well as people who do practice syncretism.

 

Peace, bums.

 

Yes I do. I also have several lineages.

 

Firstly I view/feel there is a difference between 'tradition' and 'lineage' and it is easy to equate the two things as being one thing.

 

The whole "Tradition" or "Go it alone" thing is something that I think will always be argued and debated. Oddly enough not everyone maintains the same thinking they had as they continue on with their path.

 

Many view 'tradition' as being a cage and resist the idea because they feel it will somehow cramp their style. Oddly, given what many of these traditions speak of at their core, this often surprises me. The opposite of this is to pick n choose what you want ala that 'chaos' magician, and create your own system/method. Oddly, given the depth of many of the paths that exist, this simply seems like a lot of hard work.

 

Am I willing to buy a car?

 

Or should I design and build my own?

 

If I buy a car does that tie me to Ford whereas I never even get in any other car? And always have to go to a Ford garage to get it fixed, Jon round the corner in the local garage won't do?

 

Well, I've made my car. But even though it started out fine somethings wrong and I can't figure it out, but no-one else understands my design?

 

Now, of course there are holes in the above, but they just popped into my head. As the thinking is not always so far from this.

 

WHY are you in a tradition?

 

WHY are you not in one?

 

These are the real questions. Some are hiding in a tradition and trying to use its weight, sorry you still need to do the work. Some are fine without a tradition and will go far on their own. Some will go further in a tradition. Some will never get anywhere without help. Some will get so caught up and confused by their tradition that they go nowhere.

 

It doesn't matter what you do, there are ALWAYS pitfalls.

 

If you seek a tradition because you feel you can't succeed without one, why? If you are vehemently against the idea of tradition as you feel its restraining,why?

 

Both can be truth and both can be your learned-self/ego wanting to hide.

 

Now, one of my teachers says that on your path you will often get great insight and think wow, that is amazing and want to pursue it. You mention it to your teacher, and they say 'well, its a dead-end. You can go down there and you'll progress for a couple of years then nothing.' This is what a tradition is. It is the wisdom of teachers who can guide you in your own exploration of the path. They know when to bother putting in the time and effort or when to leave something. And they know because they've been there, and their teacher went there, and his teacher went there. You stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

He says the difference he sees today in China is that the link to the past is often broken. So many 'teachers' have jumped on the insight they've had in their practice but don't have a teacher within a tradition to ask about it. They have no idea if what they've got will become a dead-end in x number of years time. Or if it will actually go where they think it will. Oddly though, they are usually the ones building names for themselves and making a big deal out of their AHA! moment. Sad but true.

 

Now, of course, no tradition is all-encompassing. It can't be. So what they consider to be worthwhile is dependant upon that tradition and what it is about. So if you sign up with Ford and then moan later on that they are not Ferrari, is that because they lied to you, or is it because you couldn't tell the difference? Or as I find most common when I ask people, they don't know what they want or where they actuall want to go! So they simply do what is front of them?

 

Additionally, not all traditions work the way described above. Some have become rigid and dogmatic and really do want you to 'lose yourself' in the tradition and simply bow to doing everything exactly their way. I have never met a real or genuine teacher of a tradition that was rigid or dogmatic, and the ones like that I have met set of alarm bells about the whole thing.

 

Tradition is about having a guide and a map, so that you can makes sense of the experiences that occur on the cultivation path, and so you waste less time in your practice. It is not about telling you what to do or to experience. So if it is doing that, then something is wrong and there is no 'tradition', no actual line of wisdom just dead empty words.

 

Lineage is something different, but the above generally shows wether it is present in the tradition or whether the tradition is hollow.

 

But in my experience YOU do not choose a lineage, IT finds/chooses you.

 

You have to follow your heart, and be open to what you experience and find. If that leads to a tradition, or if it does not. Anything else is ego placation whether you are in a tradition or not.

 

Just my experience anyway,

 

Best,

Edited October 4, 2012 by snowmonki

[Cat Pillar]

In my opinion, you were taught almost entirely incorrectly. Especially with the idea that all other faiths are false. But that kind of idea is representative of a lot of what passes for Christianity. It's unfortunate and has led to so many problems in our world. But Christianity has done a lot of good, too. Sticky situation.

 

Studying the Bible (including its history according to the experts), rather than the modern church's ideas, is the key to gaining a real understanding. You should feel free to come away with your own interpretation of what's in the Bible. I recommend that you focus on Jesus' words. That is especially important, since the entire religion is supposed to be about following his teachings. Funny how the exact opposite often occurs. Jesus personally recommended James as his successor, according to the Gospel of Thomas...that's definitely a good book of the NT to delve into.

 

You don't have to call yourself a Christian in order to appreciate some passages of the Bible.

 

Oh I agree. I think I was taught a really twisted version of Christianity - if it had been closer to what it was originally intended to be, I doubt it would have been a primary factor in the beginnings of my chronic depression.

 

I come across passages from the Bible every now and then that really strike me as amazing...my bitterness is towards the religion, not necessarily towards the Bible or Christ.

 

 

Hehe, one of the things l Love about all those Hybrid Christian/Shamanistic religions, is exactly this. They use the beautiful or inspirational parts of the church and toss the rest.

 

A Christian looks at them from out side, and is appalled. He tells them "You just don't 'get' it... religion is about words in a book! and you dont follow those words"

 

The Shaman sees the Christians reading from their books, and debating text. She says "You just don't get it! Religion is not about words, its about direct lived experience!"

 

I side with the latter.

 

This is why I avoid beliefs and faith. I'm only interested in what I directly experience. Words are useless to me unless they can point me to a direct experience.

 

I'm not particularly interested in learning interpretations of what is...only in how to experience what is.

[Protector]

The word around the office is that Jesus was against religion, whoops!

 

Dude never spoke inside the church, one of his big talks was right outside one and everyone came to listen to him instead

He only was inside when he was a kid and once when he trashed the place as an adult

I think these talks are too personal to be a big thing that everyone talks about, and that's probably why he had a small group of people who individually would lead another group of people

Everything would have worked great if Paul didn't happen