Epiphanies on power

[Humble]

A shaman who shows his/her power, may get exploited/caged up thus they are then made weak...

This has always been an interesting thought to me. If someone DID reveal say, a siddhi, or some other ability(i dont always like theword "power" in this context) who would cage them and how would they be exploited? On ticket to theory town please.

[skydog]

hmmm no idea lol just a random thought...going into the topic of what seems to be powerful, may result in "weakness"

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Birch]

K

 

out of the following 8 points you made, i basically agree with each of them:

I did indeed say 'There's something about your posts ET that I find...'

'Can't know for sure' - hmm, possible.

I recognize such things because I have experienced them prior (either as giver, receiver or witness).

Otherwise no, I wouldn't 're-cognize' it.

My intent here is to stamp my little butterfly foot/hoof and say 'enough' of such things.

If 'spirituality' is simply being polite and moving on then I've gotten very very good at that:-)

However, I figure can also be very polite in my argumentation.

No need to move on.

 

--- Yea I can't know that what I thought of them actually corresponds to what you thought of them... still I trust that what I thought of them corresponds to what you thought... and if in my responses to you seem to you that I did or didn't and you choose to tell me I will be a bit more certain... but ultimately it boils done to 'we can't actually know for sure'... whats more even though I agree on this point I also hold that it is possible that we can know for sure... I am not sure if you read/recall what I said about the belief in the identical copes existence...

 

Its a bit curious because my agreement involves seeing what you say as valid while at the same time an alternate position as valid. for example take the 'I recognize... otherwise no, I wouldn't re- recognize it'. It's true one can't recognize what one has not experienced... That is until one experiences and recognizes it. So in a way one can re-cognize it during the experience itself. or take the "My intent here is to stamp my little butterfly foot/hoof and say 'enough' of such things". Me too, time to put the foot down and change such things... with the notion of being gentle, kind, compassionate, and steadfast... I believe you actually share these notions I put though you have not expressed them...

 

I even agree that " it's a good starting point IMO for a discussion on what to do (or not) in such circumstances" ... with the alternative of using 'dialogue' rather than 'discussion' because to me 'dialogue' denotes a shared joint experience where as 'discussion' to me denotes more of a confrontation... I sort of pick up on subtle nuances like the one I just mentioned about dialogue that may or may not be relevant. I do mention them to seek and clarify stuff and observe how rather than help the dialogue the discussion rages over the words 'dialogue' or 'discussion'... as you mention 'The words/concepts themselves are there...' and each picks up on certain things rather than other things and we sort of end up each talking our separate monologue... I take that when you say that "The difficulty is in the 'knowing' part" refers to actually sharing the same knowing. "The words themselves can be honestly or dishonestly used. Or misread". indeed and sometimes intentionally and unintentionally.

 

" I'd also say that a very difficult part of it is being honest with oneself. It's so tempting not to be and rely on other people's understandings or misunderstandings to get what one wants". Thats the case until one learns that honesty with oneself is actually easier to manage than the alternatives. The actually very difficult part involves getting past certain beliefs, thoughts, feeling one holds and which complicate things. What me a nobody dare to challenge the authoritative declaration of so and so? or the other way around, what that nobody fool dares to tell me I am naked when I paid heavily for these transparent clothes I wear ... (and if I dare to recognize that in fact I paid heavily for nothing and am completely naked before everyone I will look like the fool and not the the king) ... the allegories abound its what we learn from them thats valuable...

 

I do hope this is the beginning of a resolution related to jointly resolving differences amongst ourselves and amongst others... lets see how this develops...

 

Interesting stuff. Thanks.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[skydog]

^I hope you chnage your posts to one of a less passive agressive preachy "I am right and you are wrong" energetic vampire tone

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[zerostao]

@et-thoughts

In actuality my stand is actually quite different and could be summed up by "what be be what be"

Please notice how this statement only states that what be be what be

please always follow up and state exactly for clarity sake > Indirectly pointing out that beings be beings and stuff be stuff.

as i dont always make/see the obvious logical continuation of the thought

 

and with the applying part of this;

the notions be the notions i can follow this in the abstract

but

right be right and wrong be wrong ? would fall into the category of highly subjective and may exist only in your personal framework

i very much agree with Personally I say each maintains the responsibility for what they do and dont do

 

i am a bit curious about your thesis and support for what be true being what be true

surely it would deserve its own thread

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

Epiphanic is a curious concept to find on a Taoist forum.

It's a Xtian construct refined in their enlightenment era.

That Cartesian linearity idea et uses above of...

State A......via Epiphany....to.... state B

is classical dualism. The Xtians use it substituting 'Salvation'for 'Epiphany'and vice versa, with gay abandon.

Less well taught Buddhists have it too in their.... 'Self....Praxis.... Higher Self' musings.

It simply reifies their wistful longing to articulate that which cannot be described.

Taoists know not to waste time trying to do so.

[skydog]

^ good post

[GrandmasterP]

Ta

;-)

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

I am holding a Kindle. In a moment I shall be holding a bowl of good green tea. Can't ever remember holding anything 'sacred'. One would need to have 'sacred' in order to hold it I imagine.

It has been a day off from work today,I have done sod all and the Sun has been shining since nine this morning.

Sometimes life is good.

No need to be defensive ET your opinions are respected as yours. It would be a dull old world if everyone was in agreement all the time.

Save that for the Xtians in their 'Heaven'.

[GrandmasterP]

Or Tibetan Buddhists within 'their own' lineage.

That tea was GOOD!

Our teacher used to say.....

'Two Taoists , three opinions"

;-)

[skydog]

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Edited October 10, 2012 by sinansencer

[zerostao]

a taoist cannot experience an epiphany????

" It's a Xtian construct refined in their enlightenment era."

i suggest that darwin had an epiphany or 2 himself.

ancient greeks for sure did have epiphanies , or else why would have they come up with the term?

grandmaster p has never once experienced an epiphany?

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

Well he might have been.

Maybe he was a Jesuit in disguise.

Crikey!!!

We could have been running an Xtian church all these years and not known it.

What an epiphany!

;-)

[GrandmasterP]

Well he might have been.

Maybe he was a Jesuit in disguise.

Crikey!!!

We could have been running an Xtian church all these years and not known it.

What an epiphany!

;-)

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Birch]

Ok, sort of getting somewhere with this.

First suggestion is only to state what subjectively considers to be the case. If pointing out considerations of persons, concepts, things, point to as subjective nevertheless. Allow all considerations as subjective. Forgive people if they do not adhere to the subjective suggestion, assume they're doing it anyway. No need to subjectively point it out. It pisses some of them off.

[skydog]

hmmm basically spontaneous powerful insights, but lately I am getting millions but I am also getting attached to the idea that epiphanies can take one from state a to state b, and trying to control ones state through thinking, idea of control and epiphanies..

[zerostao]

power is what we can expect when tao and te are successfully fused together

te is tao within , entrapped inside us

te is more virtuosity than it is merely virtue

this inner tao, te , entrapped inside us , when presented with a situation the te interprets that situation

and if done correctly and in the spirit of Tao , then power is expressed in real time