In the Name of Enlightenment - Sexual Abuse by Sogyal Rinpoche

[DalTheJigsaw123]

For more information about the ongoing sexual abuse by Sogyal Rinpoche see:

http://behindthethangkas.wordpress.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/jul/01/lama-sex-abuse-sog...

http://thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/sogyal-rinpoche-and-the-...

 

 

[Apech]

"he didn't know the teachings very well" ... that says it all.

 

Its a root downfall to disparage women ... so he himself is breaking samaya vows. Its disgraceful.

[Jetsun]

My first impulse was to say that both parties need to take responsibility with adult sexual relations , but after watching the video it looks like real abuse is going on which surprises me as I met one of his students last year who was a woman who spoke highly of him and she showed signs of real development and compassion. I think it just goes to show that Lamaism is a dead outdated institution of development which will probably be eradicated within a generation or two.

[Apech]

My first impulse was to say that both parties need to take responsibility with adult sexual relations , but after watching the video it looks like real abuse is going on which surprises me as I met one of his students last year who was a woman who spoke highly of him and she showed signs of real development and compassion. I think it just goes to show that Lamaism is a dead outdated institution of development which will probably be eradicated within a generation or two.

 

I think you have a point. In a lot of cases where I read about alleged sexual abuse by teachers (not just Lamas) ... I think the abused person is actually a willing participant and should admit it to themselves... although clearly it can never be an equal relationship ... there is no reason that teachers should not have sex (provided they are not monks). But according to the clip above, Sogyal Rinpoche has clearly set out to create a sort of harem for himself.

 

If there is an implication on the practitioner to uphold samaya vows then there is a 100,000 times more expected of the Lama surely.

[Wells]

If the essence of Buddhism is to destroy the Ego, then these girls should be grateful to their wonderful Lama...because that's exactly what he did to them, hahah!

 

 

Edit: btw they needed to have weak Egos in the first place or they would have kicked his ass. Nobody could have done this to a person with a strong and healthy Ego without pointing a gun to her head.

This weak-minded persons got what they were searching for, period! They just complain because Big Lama is done with them now. If he would take them back, they would most likely shut up!

Edited October 3, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Jetsun]

If the essence of Buddhism is to destroy the Ego, then these girls should be grateful to their wonderful Lama...because that's exactly what he did to them, hahah!

 

 

Edit: btw they needed to have weak Egos in the first place or they would have kicked his ass. Nobody could have done this to a person with a strong and healthy Ego without pointing a gun to her head.

This weak-minded persons got what they were searching for, period! They just complain because Big Lama is done with them now. If he would take them back, they would most likely shut up!

 

If you watch the video you can see how he manipulated the situation to make it so he held the power and the women felt like they didn't have any, psychologists have shown how easily people are manipulated in this way when they are regressed even strong people, so I don't think in this case people got what they were searching for, although that may be the way people justify abuse using karmic excuses.

[Wells]

...so I don't think in this case people got what they were searching for...

Sure! Or why are only two or so complaining and the other hundreds or even thousands shut up? Reality check, dude!

[Wells]

It's the same with the groupies of the Rock Stars!

Yeah, after the concert they all line up to get to the band's personal room to discuss the possibility of a long time relationship!

Edited October 3, 2012 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

psychologists have shown how easily people are manipulated in this way when they are regressed even strong people

I'd like to read your sources...because I don't think so!

[Jetsun]

It's the same with the groupies of the Rock Stars!

Yeah, after the concert they all line up to get to the band's personal room to discuss the possibility of a long time relationship!

 

It's a different situation, one of the women in the video was brought to the sangha by her father which was residential, she had little contact with the outside world to escape to while the guru held the power over meals and living situation etc, its essentially like a cult situation in this case rather than one she was willingly walking into.

 

The case of Chogyam Trungpa is more like what you describe, he was an open womanizer with many open relationships, which is different than a closed insular sangha where the guru threatens you with hell if you talk about your experience.

[Jetsun]

 

I'd like to read your sources...because I don't think so!

 

I will have to look up the names but there are a number of shocking psychological experiments which show how easiky we are influenced to do things against our will by those who we perceive as having authority. The most obvious example though is that of how Nazi Germany manipulated an entire nation of strong egos to do what they want.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I'd like to read your sources...because I don't think so!

 

LOL!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I will have to look up the names but there are a number of shocking psychological experiments which show how easiky we are influenced to do things against our will by those who we perceive as having authority. The most obvious example though is that of how Nazi Germany manipulated an entire nation of strong egos to do what they want.

 

 

Heard of the Prison Experiment at Stanford? Shit is crazyyy!!

[konchog uma]

Thats really sad. I am involved in the Shambhala lineage and it is a constant struggle for me to reconcile the horrible example Chogyam Trungpa set for others via alcoholism and philandering with his prolific dharma activities, and the benefit that he has brought so many practitioners in the west.

 

I bring it up because in that Behind The Thangkas blog it is mentioned that Sogyal was influenced by the "rock star lifestyle" of Chogyam Trungpa after meeting him. While that blog is anonymous, it is widely known that Trungpa lived, for a monk, an outrageously debaucherous life.

 

Needless to say its a disgrace, really to the whole tradition, when teachers act like that. I hope that the truth about those actions can come to light. Inevitably the karma that Sogyal creates will be his to resolve, and I hope that can happen without more people getting hurt.

 

Thanks for sharing

[Jetsun]

Heard of the Prison Experiment at Stanford? Shit is crazyyy!!

 

Yeah the Stanford Prison Experiment is one, The Miligram Experiment is another http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment we like to think that we are strong and independent but when you are in a situation where we perceive someone has authority over us then a lot of that goes out of the window.

[C T]

Any spiritual teacher guilty of the above allegations ought to be exposed, regardless of their wisdom (or stupidity).

 

Abuse can not and should not be tolerated... period.

[Apech]

Trouble is I loved that book.

 

Anyway we should burn books ... its basically bad no matter what the book is.

[Aetherous]

Agree with Apech and CT.

 

How does something like this fit into the idea of having a consort or karmamudra? That's a real aspect of Tibetan Buddhism as far as I know...

[idiot_stimpy]

If this is crazy wisdom then it must be compassionate.

 

Beating someone while radiating bodhicitta? Does not make sense to my mind.

[Apech]

Yes, his ghostwriters put together a meaningful book.

 

 

 

Opps I meant shouldn't burn books.

 

yes ... its a bit like Casteneda ... you can get value from things even if they are questionable ...

[Apech]

If this is crazy wisdom then it must be compassionate.

 

Beating someone while radiating bodhicitta? Does not make sense to my mind.

 

Crazy ... yes ... wisdom ... no.

[rex]

Serious allegations indeed!

 

http://dialogueirela...nd-the-thankas/

 

[Apech]

Well its interesting to read the other sides view. But I feel we are just getting either denouncers or un-critical worshipers - which is in itself a symptoms of the situation. To look at this objectively you would have to question Rinpoche's actions .... even if they have been made more lurid in the telling.

[rex]

Well its interesting to read the other sides view. But I feel we are just getting either denouncers or un-critical worshipers

Good to see at last a glimmer of balance and perspective (however seemingly grudging) - this makes a welcome change from the thread's previous enthusiastic acceptence of the denouncer's side.

 

It's a shame that things like this tend to get played out in the media in the way that best sensationalizes them, rather than in a really objective investigative way.

Exactly! That's what the courts are for - there's nothing quite like an opportunity for a moral panic fed by righteous indignation.

[C T]

For the record: Having had the opportunity to live and work in the Rigpa sangha in the mid 90's, it presented various instances where i had been able to get closer to SR, even helped in the kitchen in his chalet, preparing his meals. I did not observe, at any time, any harem of young women who attended to his every need, and he certainly did not indicate that he had a desire to have these around. Lama Care, back then, certainly did not carry the kind of implications afore-mentioned.

 

Yes, he was demanding towards his most senior aides and students during retreats, but he did it with the intention to bring the most benefit to all the attendees. He wanted every little detail to be right, because he said those who travel and make sacrifices to attend deserves the best Rigpa could offer them.

 

There were sometimes kids, both sexes, children of his students, who would walk with him around the gardens, and one could see he was full of joy when they were by him. At most, he would be in their presence for about half an hour, on average, and then he would retire back to his chalet, alone.

 

His attendants were members of both sexes, in their forties most of them, and i certainly did not observe any sordid undercurrent in any of their exchanges with SR. It was always full of dignity and respect.

 

I have had, the odd time, got to speak with him one to one, and found him to be extremely caring for his sangha, and never once did i feel that his needs came first.

 

This is not an endorsement, simply a glimpse i am sharing into the short time (off and on, over a period of a year) i have spent in the sangha. This does not mean, in any way, that i was with him for a year. It simply means that during that time, whenever he would come to the centre, i would have been there to help prep his meals.

 

Thats all for now.