The intention/desire to heal, transform, change, improve is negative, happiness is the way, or acceptance

[skydog]

Another conceptual post with paradoxes.

 

But If one spends time thinking or in a state of "Oh when I do this I will be improved, healed, transformed, and that will be great" or for other people "Oh when they change/improve things willo be great, when this situation improves things will be great how can I transform this? How can I change the world/other people?"

 

That is a very negative state of mind, feeling.

 

If instead there was a sense of joy at life, living life to the full, loving everything, everyone or acceptance this is a far better state to be in.

 

Trying to improve your state, then brings up further beliefs eg "This is a bad state, how do I fix this/this person/this situation, how can I improve this, why is this like this/this person like this, desire, further negativity spiralling"

 

Or in Taoist stae it would be to accept everything, instead of clinging to happiness or running away from pain...

Edited October 4, 2012 by sinansencer

[Jetsun]

It's a complicated issue which i have been struggling with for many years, in many areas of life if you do nothing to improve things then nothing will change, but then even desiring to change anything is sending the message that it is wrong and needs changing/healing/fixing and if you stop sending that message to yourself then it stops being a problem and you are happy.

[skydog]

^True..

 

Some more thoughts on this...The ego loves problems, The ego loves the idea of more, The ego loves the idea of improvement, It keeps the ego going, The idea of better than or less than, The ego wants to say "I" Healed my problem, Yes what a great story for the ego...The ego would hate to forget the "problem" it loved so much even existed and for it to be healed instead it would prefer to say "I was healed, me so great"

[skydog]

If one had one day left to live would one spend that day trying to improve by getting rid of blockages, negative beliefs, bad patterns or focus on loving everything, joy/going with the flow/acceptance

[Jetsun]

It is the New Age thought that you should focus on the positive because your subconscious only recognises attention so if you focus on fixing a problem all it does is feed it energy as that is where your attention is fixated There is a great deal of truth in this, but it is very easy to fall into the realms of repression and judgement in this line of thinking, which is why it may be better in the long run to just cultivate basic awareness which doesn't get fixated on either negative or positive positions.

[skydog]

Yeah, My own rationalising behind this is to do both to some degree, one more than the other eg stillness movement/shaking medicine...I think ecstasy/love/joy is soul food

[Jetsun]

A few interesting exercises along this line of thought are if you have a problem or an illness give thanks to the universe/god or whoever for the healing of it before it is healed, this sends the message to your body/mind that everything is ok so it relaxes and the healing will then take place as there is less stress and resistance, or your mind will relax showing your the solution to the problem. "Thy will be done". It is also useful to observe how your mind reacts to such giving thanks

 

Another exercise from Buddhism is to tell yourself that everything is absolutely perfect and exactly where it should be in your life and in the world right now... then again observe the minds reaction

 

We can observe how our minds/ego try to play god and in that process worsen or even create the problem we are trying to fix.

[GrandmasterP]

I reckon most people cultivate thinking WIIFM (what's in it for me) to start off with. Then some who don't find much or get bored pack it in, a few stick with it and maybe get beyond that whole 'ego' thang.

Eventually.

Shaking set has its place but it can be a bit radical. There are other sets more conducive to a meditative calm state, certainly for beginners.

Eight Strands of Silk Brocade is my own all time fave.

Deity figures also have their uses.

Amitabha in Pure Land Buddhism and we have all sorts of deities in Taoism, take your pick.

There's one to suit everybody from warrior gods to flower maiden goddesses and all sorts in between.

I like Quan Shi Yin but that's only a personal preference.

None of 'em are 'real' it's what we do that matters, but they are a handy focus out and beyond the 'I'.

They act as a focus, reifying the inconceivable.

Plus rituals and festivals bring folk together and chanting is a good cultivation.

[RiverSnake]

Wu Wei

[sasblamthanb]

reactive/responsive

or

creative

 

structural conflict

or

structural tension resolution

 

The Path Of Least Resistance

Robert Fritz

[Lucky7Strikes]

1) You can't accept yourself. That's like trying to stomp on your right foot with your right foot. You can only see the things which you are not. Accepting the world "as it is" is a misunderstanding of wisdom teachings. Telling yourself "accept, accept, accept" isn't such a good way to lead your life and will lead to problems like apathy and desensitization. Acceptance means to see the falsity of the many boundaries between you and existence. Your mind can't accept things, it can only realize its own falsehoods so that your awareness can become more open and free.

 

2) Life, which you are, naturally wants to do stuff, to evolve, to observe, and most of all to expand. This is usually expressed in all the wrong ways via desire for power, sex, territory, and yes, to the mind this tendency becomes a "one more thing then I'll be fine" dialogue. The intentions are always good, but interpretations are mostly bad.

 

Instead of trying to diffuse this dialogue, try to find the underlying drive behind it. Whether you are directing life inwards into energetic states, or outwards into the material world, its basic liveness should never be denied under "acceptance" philosophies. In my opinion, it's much better to live a driven, intense, and expressive life of a criminal than as an oppressed "good" citizen at the office. You're doing life great injustice by trying to put it in a box.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[thelerner]

I'd say too much desire/obsessing for change is bad, but in my opinion taoism is about a path. I'm not a stone or plant, I'm a man. I move, accepting and causing change. As a living organism some things are favorable to my growth and it behooves me to move towards them.

[SunLover]

 

Yang is Male Dominant, You Change Universe

Yin is Female Submissive, Universe Change You

RIght Leg Yang

Left Leg Yin

Right Leg over Left Leg

Yang over Yin

Right Leg Out

Left Leg In

Yang is Outside

Yin is Inside

Outside Male Dominant Change Universe

Inner Female Submissive to Change

[GrandmasterP]

Yep that'll work.

Leads to achey legs though.

8 Strands of Silk Brocade or Horse Stance are kinder to the knees.

[Sifu ReL]

why not try speakin to your mind , body, spirit . in the present tense.

[doc benway]

Another approach to change -

If you take time to pay attention to things - to really be aware of what is going on inside and around you, over time that very process of becoming aware fosters profound change.

You don't have to do anything. No need to desire or intend anything.

All you need to do is watch and listen and pay attention.

It really works.

This is doing by non-doing.

Edited October 5, 2012 by steve

[Jetsun]

Another approach to change -

If you take time to pay attention to things - to really be aware of what is going on inside and around you, over time that very process of becoming aware fosters profound change.

You don't have to do anything. No need to desire or intend anything.

All you need to do is watch and listen and pay attention.

It really works.

This is doing by non-doing.

 

I agree with what you say here but in my experience the quality of the attention required is actually quite subtle;

if what you observe is too close you are too attached but if its too far away it can lead to aversion. If you observe something in yourself if you say it is "you" then you are lost in it but if you say it isn't "you" it can lead to dissociation. Maintaining your awareness and observation in the middle way in all things is not easy, or isn't easy for me anyway, Its like walking on a tightrope.

[skydog]

An "exercise" from shaking medicine..before every time you practice or whenever, you try to think of some things you want out of your practice eg

 

Power

recognition

oneness

death

love

happiness

truth

joy

freedom

 

Then one makes a nonsense gibberish poem using those words...

 

The death of stars is like poo love wondering accross the inside happiness of outside joy out of the concaves of freedom slowly jar truth becomes one before death there was birth, before birth joy, joy and freedom are more like love and hate than love and hate like to admit the power of, the power of joy hates freedom, freedom hates love, love loves truth, love desires recognition into the dinosaur tree of peyote flying away in an eagle of knowledge waking up from the dream of chocolate cookies off to the shop i go, freedom is oneway of the tao techings recognition of recongnising others veracity of their claims, e.t thoughts speaks like this haha ho ho ahahah, oneness is like twoness death occured in the star that was actually me over there, death and love are like keyoboards mixing together in the cooking pot to make vegetarian soup that is like meat the killing of trees and plants the difference is unsightly to the sight of gifts of men of knowledge

 

furthermore the practice encourages laughter, silliness and play

Edited October 5, 2012 by sinansencer

[doc benway]

I agree with what you say here but in my experience the quality of the attention required is actually quite subtle;

if what you observe is too close you are too attached but if its too far away it can lead to aversion. If you observe something in yourself if you say it is "you" then you are lost in it but if you say it isn't "you" it can lead to dissociation. Maintaining your awareness and observation in the middle way in all things is not easy, or isn't easy for me anyway, Its like walking on a tightrope.

All good points.

It is very subtle and is a skill that can be developed and mastered with practice.

It's most definitely not easy and yet it is the simplest thing in the world.

 

 

A starting point is to observe yourself (your thoughts, feelings, interactions with others, responses, behaviors) as if they were happening to someone else. Just observe. No resistence, no separation (just like taiji), just be with it and pay attention.

 

Another aspect is that it is important to not identify with what is going on:

- rather than say to yourself "I am sad" or "I am angry" take the approach "there is sadness there, this is what sadness feels like, it will linger for a bit and eventually will pass" - that sort of thing. There is much more to us than one particular emotion. And from moment to moment that emotion changes.

Not identifying is sometimes easy and sometimes very hard.

It is not unusual to find oneself in the throes of a particular emotion or reaction and, just like in meditation, it's important to not be hard on yourself and feel like you've failed, but just practice awareness and attention.

And with patience it really pays off...

 

I recently listened to some talks by a retired priest turned Celtic spiritual teacher/poet named John O'Donohue.

He reinterprets the phrase, "the meek shall inherit the Earth" as "the gentle shall inherit the Earth."

This brings a whole new meaning to this phrase - he is reading this as extolling the virtues of sensitivity, subtlety, and gentleness in spiritual matters. And those of us who meditate know just how critical it is to approach the inner landscape with sensitivity, subtlety, and gentleness.

[GrandmasterP]

David Adam had more or less cornered the Celtic market til O'Donohue popped up. Nice field to plough. So long ago nobody knows sod all much for sure hence current writers can more or less make it up as they go along.

Odd thing is they seldom mention the Celtic era diggers archaeological papers on human sacrifice finds.

Lindisfarne is a nice spot though. When it isn't raining.

[Birch]

I don't see a wish to improve one's life as negative. For example, I have all these very conditioned ways of seeing things and responding to things that result in an unsatisfactory (for me, in my own opinion and experience, no-one else's) life.

 

There are things I don't dare to do, feel inadequate about, fear about and there are things that I do do and think that have real life crappy results. Desiring to rid myself of said conditioning (and thoughts and actions) with the expectation/hunch/goal that my life will be more satisfactory is IMO/IME a positive wish.

 

What I understand about this idea is that I become aware that I have all these faulty thoughts and do all these things but I don't hate myself for it. Not hating myself for it allows me to look them all (the thoughts and the ways of seeing and the actions) squarely in the face and actually decide whether I want to think or do any of them rather than being compelled.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that in some readings I've made of buddhism, what I've understood is that the above goals are considered impossible to achieve in buddhism because they are of the domain of 'ego' and that's basically what it does for a living- ensures suffering and dissatisfaction. That could be true but I find it pessimistic and disempowering:-)

Edited October 5, 2012 by -K-

[Taomeow]

"Positive thinking" was one of the CIA psy-ops launched in the late 60s as a subversive measure against social, cultural, political, labor, human rights activism. It's a spiritual counterpart of pepper spray.

[Birch]

"Positive thinking" was one of the CIA psy-ops launched in the late 60s as a subversive measure against social, cultural, political, labor, human rights activism. It's a spiritual counterpart of pepper spray.

 

That's interesting Taomeow. I did try it (I'm almost embarrassed to say that) and it didn't work for me and I did dig into why it didn't work for me and I concluded certain things about it but hadn't figured that one. One of the things I love about life itself is that it will rebel and reject (all by itself) anything that isn't real or in-tune with it.

[GrandmasterP]

Positive Thinking is a bit older than the 1960s.

About a century older. Christian Science,Peirce ,Dewey William James and the Boston Transcendentalists kick started it. How to Win Friends and Influence People plus Samuel Smiles earlier book Self Help were the bibles of the movement.

Not saying the CIA didn't use it subversively. Those guys are clever and well funded. They planted Dispensational Pentecostalism in South America to counteract radical-Marxian 'base communities' movements in Roman Catholicism and that has gone global since the 60s

[Birch]

I went looking for it and haven't found yet but did stumble across this fun article http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinister-psyops-mission-patches/