The intention/desire to heal, transform, change, improve is negative, happiness is the way, or acceptance

[GrandmasterP]

You are not alone in finding some Buddhisms disempowering K.

It's something we hear now and again from people who come to our centre after dabbling in Buddhism and finding it not to their taste. Putting the beliefs to one side what the experience many newcomers have with Buddhism is that it seems elitist. The shaven headed coves in robes are very much the bees knees in English Buddhist centres and the folk in ordinary clothes are very much treated as 'second best'. The Tibetans are the worst offenders. Western Buddhists not so much but still very cliquey. You don't get that division in Taoist centres. Everybody is equal and newcomers are valued. Maybe because we are more of a do it yourself path whereas in Buddhism they like to have ordained people 'doing it for and to people'.

[Aetherous]

I went looking for it and haven't found yet but did stumble across this fun article http://vigilantcitiz...ission-patches/

 

I love this kind of stuff.

[Birch]

I love this kind of stuff.

Read the post about the Lady Gaga perfume composition.

 

It's weird as f6ck.

 

I mean couldn't these nutjobs just do something simple like meditate? Oh wait I forgot Russel Brand's endorsement of yoga on the Deepak Chopra Youtube channel. Yey, let's bring yoga to prisons. That will help.

[Aetherous]

She will do anything to remain relevant...lol.

[Birch]

 

 

I'm not very concerned about possible elitism. I am concerned about actual physical and mental and other consequences of some buddhist practices. Like I mentioned elsewhere, depends what you're burning:-)

[Birch]

She will do anything to remain relevant...lol.

 

Like putting her own DNA in a bottle to be worn???

 

Batshit.

[Taomeow]

I went looking for it and haven't found yet but did stumble across this fun article http://vigilantcitiz...ission-patches/

 

Fun, fun. Thanks for posting.

 

For what I'm talking about:

 

http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/0312658850

 

but I don't remember if this one has everybody's number... for everybody's number, good key words to start off with are "new age and CIA psyops and Gordon Wasson and Esalen... and The Nine..." -- If you come empty-handed, I'll dig deeper into my nevermind-the-source-but-make-sure-it-makes-sense search mechanism... which does retain at least some key words to start some off onto the path of critical thinking that veers off the path of brainwashed thinking, and others, to pull that warm fuzzy wool firmer and more decisively than ever over their eyes and walk confidently in the general direction of where the rest of the warm fuzzy woolly bleeting... sorry, getting carried away with a metaphor.

[GrandmasterP]

You do realise that some poor sod in Langley is having to read this thread don't you?

 

Hi Bob.

Did your wife find out about Vegas yet?

You naughty boy!

[skydog]

.

Edited October 7, 2012 by sinansencer

[Taomeow]

You do realise that some poor sod in Langley is having to read this thread don't you?

 

Hi Bob.

Did your wife find out about Vegas yet?

You naughty boy!

 

 

Yeah, thanks for the reminder. I should start taking Protopope Avvakum's warning more seriously. He was the leader of opposition in the 17th century Russia and he visited me in a dream-vision many years ago to tell me exactly this, in a resounding Old Slavonic which I translate below:

"Some things can be talked about in a flowery manner and there's no sin in that; other things, let's keep silent about, for the Almighty has given us comprehension not toward many words, but toward many silent omissions."

 

I hope I'm not over my words vs. silent omissions limit for purposes of conformism compliance, Bob. Please include the opinion of the Protopope as my guiding prototype in your report. Have fun in Vegas.

[Birch]

I was going to buy that book a while back as a foil to the overly 'attitude of gratitude' environment. But they can't help it, poor folks, perhaps Bernays and co were right and I should just shut up and 'go with the flow'. There's another one out and I may buy them both http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=9781847678645

 

Bob is perhaps unaware that his enjoyment of much of the produce of the 'Entertainment industry' has led him, without his being aware of it, to reconsider his love for his wife and kids, wonder about his success as an employee and feel stilled with the courage to win as an individual 'despite all the odds'.

 

Read the post on the Olympic Games ceremonies on the site posted above. Puke-worthy.

[Birch]

I was really thinking about this yesterday. I was thinking about monarchs and religious leaders and their motivations for using spiritual (and other) techniques to instill behaviors in the 'populace' (for want of a better word). I was thinking about where these motivations came from. Imagine having such a poor opinion of other people (where could that come from if not by looking at oneself?) that one is driven to delude them?

 

So sad.

[Aetherous]

You do realise that some poor sod in Langley is having to read this thread don't you?

 

Hmmm...what can we do to brighten his/her day?

 

[liminal_luke]

Where do practices such as the healing tao's inner smile, and kaps secret smile fit in with positive thinking--authentic spiritual practice or just more CIA inspired misdirection of the meditating masses? What about laughing yoga, and gratitude journaling? I find these kind of practices feel good, and I think there's great value in feeling good. Perhaps some people really are smiling fools, cultivating their own bliss while ignoring the very real problems in society. I don't think that's what generally happens though, quite the opposite. In my experience the happier I am the more present I am to be of service to other people. I'm not much good to anyone depressed.

[Birch]

Where do practices such as the healing tao's inner smile, and kaps secret smile fit in with positive thinking--authentic spiritual practice or just more CIA inspired misdirection of the meditating masses? What about laughing yoga, and gratitude journaling? I find these kind of practices feel good, and I think there's great value in feeling good. Perhaps some people really are smiling fools, cultivating their own bliss while ignoring the very real problems in society. I don't think that's what generally happens though, quite the opposite. In my experience the happier I am the more present I am to be of service to other people. I'm not much good to anyone depressed.

 

I don't know. Glenn Morris was very much involved as a scholar and teacher of personal development in business (GM or GE? Can't recall). I do agree that it's possible to both cultivate oneself while also not ignoring the problems in society. What gets tricky is how such cultivation is administered and the mindset to which it is administered. Secret Smile got me to look at the darker side of my emotional nature (paradoxically). And I'm very grateful for that:-)

[Taomeow]

Where do practices such as the healing tao's inner smile, and kaps secret smile fit in with positive thinking--authentic spiritual practice or just more CIA inspired misdirection of the meditating masses? What about laughing yoga, and gratitude journaling? I find these kind of practices feel good, and I think there's great value in feeling good. Perhaps some people really are smiling fools, cultivating their own bliss while ignoring the very real problems in society. I don't think that's what generally happens though, quite the opposite. In my experience the happier I am the more present I am to be of service to other people. I'm not much good to anyone depressed.

 

It's tricky. The default state of the human being is happiness. When the Spaniards arrived in the "New World," they were appalled to see happy people, they left memoirs lamenting the sad state of affairs with the savages who are happy and laughing all the time without giving a thought to the indisputable (to the newcomers) fact that they're all going to hell for this. So, we've been raised every which way but normally, and our default state is something most of us haven't the foggiest about. A therapist making her living "normalizing" people once confessed to me that she "wouldn't know what normal is if it climbed on the table wearing a yellow polka-dot bikini and danced a cancan singing, Happy happy joy joy Normal is here, singing and dancing for you!" And how could she know what normal is, what happy really feels like, if she herself was a sexually abused child, a woman feeling insecure inside at all times, learning a bunch of counterphobic behaviors to cover this up, gaining an extra 100 lb to feel protected, and choosing a profession that is all about "nevermind the clients, what I really want to figure out is, what the hell is wrong with ME?.." Um... only everything, through no fault of hers -- through no fault of anyone whose blueprint for unhappiness is installed so early that they live believing it's "the real me."

 

To work oneself out of the matrix, some methods are better than others, most are useless. There's nothing wrong and everything right with feeling happy. There's nothing right and everything wrong with behaving happy and positive due to indoctrination rather than the genuine feeling. If a practice reliably (not in a neurotic outburst of a "mood" that will pass as fast as it has come) tunes one into the default happiness -- or at least stable contentment that does not rely on numbing out 99% of one's humanity for its stability and censoring out one's own heart till it's reliably turned into stone --

if such a practice is found, it's a good practice. They are rare and far between though. It's not easy to take on a whole history of "civilization" which by now you embody, not just think, and shake it off who you really are... not easy to un-carve the block (to recall Laozi's metaphor) carved to the core with alien signs and symbols, almost gossamer from too much carving. Blessed are the ones who do, far from blessed are the ones who fake it -- and accursed are the ones who make others fake it.

[liminal_luke]

Secret Smile got me to look at the darker side of my emotional nature (paradoxically). And I'm very grateful for that:-)

 

Thanks for the thought provoking responses K, Taomeow. For me, the above quote goes to the heart of the trickiness you mentioned Taomeow. A similar thing happened to me with practice of the inner smile. Smiling to my liver for instance, I'd eventually arrive at a happy place, but first I'd become uncomfortably aware of all the ways my liver wasn't so happy. I'd feel tightness physically, and all sorts of decidedly unpositive emotions--anger, sadness, etc. The smile wasn't covering over anything. It was illuminating my discontent. If I stuck with it long enough I could get to a happy place but it was by going through my pain, not avoiding it.

[Jetsun]

Where do practices such as the healing tao's inner smile, and kaps secret smile fit in with positive thinking--authentic spiritual practice or just more CIA inspired misdirection of the meditating masses? What about laughing yoga, and gratitude journaling? I find these kind of practices feel good, and I think there's great value in feeling good. Perhaps some people really are smiling fools, cultivating their own bliss while ignoring the very real problems in society. I don't think that's what generally happens though, quite the opposite. In my experience the happier I am the more present I am to be of service to other people. I'm not much good to anyone depressed.

 

Depends how you use them, it's possible to cultivate feeling good and bliss to try to avoid your own suffering and if that is the case all you are really doing is cultivating further delusion.

[Birch]

Thanks for the thought provoking responses K, Taomeow. For me, the above quote goes to the heart of the trickiness you mentioned Taomeow. A similar thing happened to me with practice of the inner smile. Smiling to my liver for instance, I'd eventually arrive at a happy place, but first I'd become uncomfortably aware of all the ways my liver wasn't so happy. I'd feel tightness physically, and all sorts of decidedly unpositive emotions--anger, sadness, etc. The smile wasn't covering over anything. It was illuminating my discontent. If I stuck with it long enough I could get to a happy place but it was by going through my pain, not avoiding it.

 

Through it. Yes:-)

My experience is similar.

[Taomeow]

Enjoy your posts on this "normalizing the self" topic.

 

I don't suspect this is fair to ask publicly, but I am curious to know about your happiness these recent days/months/years since you started your work towards normality.

 

Like I said, it's tricky. The reasons nothing is normal in our normal world are ancient, profound, and powerful. You can't take on something that may be older than the sun and moon and stars and win all your battles. But you can win some, lose some, and decide if you're going to ever give up or if they will have to turn you into star dust before you do, and maybe not even then, and take it from there. I've decided I'd never give up. Since that decision, I've won some, lost some. The better I get at the game, the more I have thrown my way, the higher the stakes, the more I'm "tested" (if that's what it is -- maybe "tempered," maybe "punished," maybe "educated" -- who knows?..) Still, the second I get a breather, the default happiness kicks in spontaneously. So the hope of getting back to that place whenever I'm kicked out of there is one thing that keeps me stronger than I would otherwise be (and than I used to be). And another thing is, without a "more complete picture" that I've gained while working with all this whatever-it-is for which the working term I use is "reality," I wouldn't be equipped to deal with even a fraction of a percent of what I had to deal with, and the give-up option would be something kicking in on autopilot, not a choice, not a decision to make. Then again, maybe if I wasn't equipped to deal with stuff, I wouldn't have to deal with it? I would have failed a long time ago and was of no further interest to "reality" to test, temper, punish or educate me?.. Who knows. AIl I know is, like I said, it's tricky... but thanks for asking.

[GrandmasterP]

Good post K thank you. David Carradine says in an extras docu on White Crane DVD.

"Anybody who does martial arts and goes looking for trouble is sure to find it. And the same goes for people who do not do martial arts. Sometimes even when you don't look for it, trouble finds you, and when it does,you are glad that you trained".

[Cat Pillar]

...rely on numbing out 99% of one's humanity for its stability and censoring out one's own heart till it's reliably turned into stone --

 

That's pretty much how I "got through" my depression. It's proving difficult to undue.

[Birch]

That's pretty much how I "got through" my depression. It's proving difficult to undue.

 

It IS difficult. I figure the difficulty keeps many people from trying. There are also other people who will (almost inexplicably) keep you from trying. There are entire industries built on the difficulty, transforming difficulty into 'difficulties' plural (need more market-spread), do you think that those industries in particular would like people to know that it is anything other than 'difficulties'?

 

---2 cts opinion rant---

[The Observer]

Another conceptual post with paradoxes.

 

But If one spends time thinking or in a state of "Oh when I do this I will be improved, healed, transformed, and that will be great" (...)

 

That is a very negative state of mind, feeling.

 

There is nothing wrong with making a choice to improve your current conditions. Even doing nothing is making a decision. If for example you are sick and you do qigong to improve your health (not only for yourself but for the loved ones that depend on you) how can that be a negative thing.

 

I do agree however, that it is negative to want to change other people, at least against their own will.

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts