US Presidential Debate and what is really important to people

[joeblast]

Keep staying away from that substance, ralis. If you dont understand it, you can simply admit it instead of presenting straw man after straw man - all you can do is go after me personally, you have nothing whatsoever to say about the substance of what I write other than to dismiss it outright. I've told and shown you were the climate models are terribly wrong - and all you have in retort is what - nothin but "its not pal reviewed."

 

Feel free to address me on substance any time.

 

Keep on pluckin that chicken

[Aetherous]

"its not pal reviewed."

 

Dude, come on. You think the scientific peer review process is a sham? That's lunatic fringe, man.

[joeblast]

Entirely? No, not at all. For most disciplines - most honest disciplines untainted by money or politics - peer review is a wonderful tool. Has it been abused by parts of the climate community? You bet your ass it has! That's where the term pal-review came from, the actions of some in the climate science community. There's just about zero other scientific disciplines out there that has the money at stake that the climate issue has. It is well documented how easy it was to get grants or handouts if you just mentioned global warming, climate change - what the government wants, the government subsidizes. "Here, free handouts if you write stuff that gives us a good excuse to tax your hot air." Why do you think the UN is all pushing for global carbon taxes? It is a vast source of untapped tax they can appropriate at their behest!

 

"Scientists" like James Hansen, Michael Mann, Keith Trenberth, Phil Jones - they are heretics to the name of science. I always see GISS data divert from other measurements - why, mister hansen? Because your numbers meat machine is a game of statistical foolery and the hockey team had their rears handed to them when an actual Statistician took the argument and blew it to pieces for the conjecture it was - conjecture that billions, trillion in tax money, ripe for the taking, rests on.

 

We're starting to get a little off topic with this I'm sure the global warming thread can be resurrected if need be

[Aetherous]

Okay, maybe fair enough.

 

Yes, please resurrect the global warming topic. I am looking forward to rereading the thing.

[ralis]

Keep staying away from that substance, ralis. If you dont understand it, you can simply admit it instead of presenting straw man after straw man - all you can do is go after me personally, you have nothing whatsoever to say about the substance of what I write other than to dismiss it outright. I've told and shown you were the climate models are terribly wrong - and all you have in retort is what - nothin but "its not pal reviewed."

 

Feel free to address me on substance any time.

 

Keep on pluckin that chicken

 

All you have shown are flawed data from your ameautur scientist radio weatherman http://wattsupwiththat.com/ which refutes nothing. In reviewing all of your narrative, not once have you posted actual data from the available research journals. Further, you have some notion that there is a global conspiracy among atmospheric research scientists to deceive the public. The only global conspiracy is in the closed minds of human primates that refuse to listen to reason.

 

http://wottsupwiththat.com/ This site is a refutation of the Watts site.

 

http://greenfyre.wor...ck-of-the-week/

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts

Edited October 24, 2012 by ralis

[thelerner]

If we're still on the debates. I consider myself an independent. Clearly Obama lost the first debate by a large margin, and won the last 2. As a former business owner I respect the power of lower tax rates being able to raise all ships. But I can't vote for Romney. His numbers don't add up. I'm afraid he'll decide things along party lines that are now ultra conservative because the tea party has pulled Republicans to the far right.

 

Its my hope that Obama is a pragmatist and his decisions will be made less from a conservative/liberal viewpoint and more for what will be best for the country. Maybe I'm naive.

 

In any case being in Illinois means my vote and most peoples won't mean shit, unless they're in a swing state.

[zerostao]

i am thinking what is the possibility of a 269-269 electoral college tie?

would be some high drama then.

i am ready for a new environmental thread,

 

should it be off topic or general discussion, taoist discussion, or in the lobby?

i am thinking probably best not to place it in the lobby.

 

edit i just looked at the map and for a 269 tie it would mean that romney must win , ohio, florida, missouri, virginia, and north carolina. seems a tall order

Edited October 24, 2012 by zerostao

[joeblast]

Tie goes to the incumbent, right?

 

How does an obama vote square with the fact that the feds borrow 42 cents of every dollar it spends and leaves that remainder for all of us as debt.

 

I dont expect romney to bend the spending curve as low as it needs to go of course, but I am quite certain the spending curve will be far higher under Obama, because they dont even seem to half look at the math of what their aims are. Either that or they really do not care what the math is, the ends justifies the means, let's get there by hell or high water.

 

or as pelosi put it when they were ramming through o'screwcare, if they block it, we'll go around it, if they build a wall, we'll go over it...

 

I just find it odd that one can assert romney's numbers dont add up, therefore I cant vote for him, but Obama's numbers...why, they dont exist, so I guess they're not too bad?

 

I said at the outset of all of this that I'd most likely be holding my nose and voting for romney, what was most important was getting obama out of office.

[zerostao]

yep, a heavy weight boxing champion retains the title if there is a draw,

as would a champion chess player. to be the man one must beat the man, so to speak.

and as college football has what they call a mythical champion with the bowl system and not a playoff system.

regardless a sec team will always win in either case, but i digress...

so i look at the presidential election as a mythical event.

part of that is due to the anarchist that dwells in me.

and part of it is due to the era we live in.

http://score.rims.k1..._of_democratic/

in the age of enlightenment democracy flourished.

in the modern world this began to change.

the modern world mourned the loss of great traditions and the trend became to tend to reverse the traditional myths.

such as religious institutions that could still be respected and democracy to name 2.

the melody and the harmonics were now gone the newer music had sound and noise.

the meta-narratives (super stories) myths) democracy and moral leaders) were reversed. (even if all still havnt noticed)

the high priests of the modern age kafka, joyce, ts eliot, proust, rilke enacted the last rites to that age of enlightenment.

the art was abstract, surrealism, cubism, futurism, and the scientists of that golden age who were also dealing with the loss of their great traditions, these events of arts and science still send major shock waves today.

then the events of 2 world wars, the holocaust, great depression, great recession, global warming, and all the blowback we have been hit with.

have us in the post-modern world, which if one is in step with the times, one would be celebrating the loss of those old traditions and how we could step into liberation. post modernism trend tends to fragment and be eclectic.

it abandons the myths and meta narratives entirely.

but the mainstream is not in step with the times, dangerously lagging behind the artists and scientists.

our world now is more of a patchwork quilt,pieces of this and that blended together for something useful.

the 2 party system is far outdated. and that is why it no longer works. can anyone here claim this 2 party system is working?

if we are going to have a meaningful election it needs to be fragmentary and eclectic like the patch work quilt.

sign as reality 1) we no longer see reality as it is , it has been replaced by a sign

just like a zoo tries to represent wilderness.

2)sign distorts reality as like in a zoo you dont see a lion attacking a wilderbeast

3)sign disguises the absence of reality , here the masters of deception get tricky relying on how long they have been playing this game and how long we have been deceived. all animals in the zoo look peaceful here.

4)sign abandons reality like in a few years there will be no tigers left in the wild and can only be found in a zoo

the same is true for good ol usa , sign now is usa is disneyworld.the reality of what was once america is long gone and forgotten. welcome to disneyworld (corporate america)

"there are children who are afraid of the night, who have never been happy or good"

but they can visit disneyworld and everything will seem ok.

here in disneyworld we have candidate obama and candidate romney , or even an obamney coz it just dont matter anymore.

the ceo of disneyworld is the master now.

i dont think anyone represents our current post modern world quite like pink floyd

we really oughtta step into the next age with new arts and sciences and not such a dualistic greedy evil system that our current criminal politicians use to deceive us

anarchist rant part 1

[thelerner]

i am thinking what is the possibility of a 269-269 electoral college tie?

would be some high drama then.

Tie goes to the incumbent, right?

I was under the impression a tie goes to the house of representatives which is...da da Republican, 269 + 269 = Romney!! <Later Add- apparently the senate picks the vice president! So we'd have a Romney/Biden ticket.

 

House Selects the New President

As directed by the 12th Amendment, the 435 -- many of them brand new -- members of the House of Representatives would find as their first official duty the selection of the next President of the United States. "Welcome to Congress!"

 

 

I can't get live chat to work since the new update. It'd be cool to have some live chat on election day when things are heating up.

Edited November 2, 2012 by thelerner

[ralis]

Republican right wing authoritarian misogynists that redefined rape. Yet many on the right wing deny that there is a war against women.

 

Edited October 26, 2012 by ralis

[ralis]

Paul Weyrich the founder of the right wing movement and ALEC states why the right wing must interfere with voting rights.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2012 by ralis

[GrandmasterP]

Is it this week you guys get to vote for a Prez?

Not that I read it but there was pages about US elections in yesterday's papers here.

I've no idea why.

Bet you are spared overmuch coverage of UK elections in your media.

IMO whoever you vote for you end up with a feckin' politician in charge, hence I don't vote..

It only encourages the ba*tards if one does.

[joeblast]

voting rights.

Hey, I'm against voting early and often, and I see no reason why we should not make those who vote prove they are who they say they are and be prevented from voting a few times - would it be racist if we had that purple ink-dye like in Iraq's elections a few years ago to have people dip their thumbs in so they would be preventing from issuing multiple votes?

[ralis]

Hey, I'm against voting early and often, and I see no reason why we should not make those who vote prove they are who they say they are and be prevented from voting a few times - would it be racist if we had that purple ink-dye like in Iraq's elections a few years ago to have people dip their thumbs in so they would be preventing from issuing multiple votes?

 

It is the Republican right wing that has created this issue. In the past it was never a problem. The problem is not voter fraud but election fraud with the right wing. There are a number of instances happening in the last month. Just Google and find out.

 

Recently a Republican operative was caught disposing of Democratic voter registrations in a dumpster.

 

It has been demonstrated that voting machines can be hacked using remote wireless devices.

 

All votes from the state of Ohio are being tabulated remotely in Virginia.

 

Romney's son owns a voting machine company that has provided machines for Hamilton County Ohio.

 

Voting machine software is proprietary and not open for public inspection.

 

In terms of voter fraud, there are very few cases. Why? It is a felony with a sentence up to 5 yrs.

Edited November 5, 2012 by ralis

[joeblast]

*googles*

 

The Republican Party of Florida is dumping a firm it paid more than $1.3 million to register new voters, after Palm Beach County Elections Supervisor Susan Bucher flagged 106 “questionable” registration applications turned in by the contractor this month.

 

is just about all I came up with.

 

As opposed to what happened to ACORN? standard ruler on one, logarithmic ruler on another, call 'em congruent?? par for the course, ralis. They find enough discrepancy and they dump the firm, whereas democrats made sure ACORN was fully backed up and vouched for and then resurrected after being legislatively smacked down?

 

I hear the black panthers are going to be at some polling stations again this year, think they'll be there with their riot batons again?

[ralis]

*googles*

 

 

 

is just about all I came up with.

 

As opposed to what happened to ACORN? standard ruler on one, logarithmic ruler on another, call 'em congruent?? par for the course, ralis. They find enough discrepancy and they dump the firm, whereas democrats made sure ACORN was fully backed up and vouched for and then resurrected after being legislatively smacked down?

 

I hear the black panthers are going to be at some polling stations again this year, think they'll be there with their riot batons again?

 

 

 

http://www.washingto...e00b_story.html

Edited November 5, 2012 by ralis

[joeblast]

was arrested, charged, ties were cut - how's that differ from the acorn thing? the entirety of the response is different. the whole guilt thing, criminal charges, arrests, ties being cut. this is an appropriate response when a vulgar act like this is committed. much better than nothing to see here, move along. similarly, we dont hear jack from people like you when its democrats

[Aetherous]

I think we all agree that each person should be allowed to get their vote in. Right?

 

For many, that includes voting early (what's the problem with that? saved me a huge hassle this time around)...and it also includes not being able to cast multiple votes...and not having your vote thrown out.

 

At least when I went, the elderly people working had no idea who I was voting for.

[ralis]

I think we all agree that each person should be allowed to get their vote in. Right?

 

For many, that includes voting early (what's the problem with that? saved me a huge hassle this time around)...and it also includes not being able to cast multiple votes...and not having your vote thrown out.

 

At least when I went, the elderly people working had no idea who I was voting for.

 

There are some that would return this country to the 'Jim Crow' laws of the past and rescind the voting rights act.

[joeblast]

yeah yeah, and negroes are going back to the fields to pick cotton if Romney wins...do you really believe what you write ralis? "there are some" is such a broad generality, I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find a person racist enough to actually believe such a thing, then the "some" requirement in your assertion would be fulfilled - but to blanket a whole group of people, a whole political movement, as supporting something so preposterous, it requires a willing suspension of rationality in order to subscribe to such things. of course, when you're willing to go to any lengths and the end justifies the means, these 'issues' are minor inconveniences that can be casually waved away and no further thought given.

 

as opposed to actual racial voter intimidation like we had captured on video with the black panthers, slam dunk case, and the racists in charge decide that if its coming from black folk it cant possibly be 'racism' and dismiss the case entirely...

[ralis]

yeah yeah, and negroes are going back to the fields to pick cotton if Romney wins...do you really believe what you write ralis? "there are some" is such a broad generality, I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find a person racist enough to actually believe such a thing, then the "some" requirement in your assertion would be fulfilled - but to blanket a whole group of people, a whole political movement, as supporting something so preposterous, it requires a willing suspension of rationality in order to subscribe to such things. of course, when you're willing to go to any lengths and the end justifies the means, these 'issues' are minor inconveniences that can be casually waved away and no further thought given.

 

as opposed to actual racial voter intimidation like we had captured on video with the black panthers, slam dunk case, and the racists in charge decide that if its coming from black folk it cant possibly be 'racism' and dismiss the case entirely...

 

I stated there are "some" which is not a sweeping generalization as you so love to characterize it. I lived in the deep south at one time and there still exists a problem with racial bias. If you believe that humans that were once racist or are descended from racially biased families have somehow magically changed their deep seated fear of others who are different, then you are absolutely mistaken. I am of mixed race and your posts are offensive to me. Why not show a little compassion for others who have been victimized through no fault of their own and are less fortunate than you are.

Edited November 5, 2012 by ralis

[GrandmasterP]

My old Dad liked a bet as much as I do.

His tip for betting on boxing was ever..."if there's a choice, always back the black guy'.

[Aetherous]

As a white person, as well as someone who was pretty recently in the military, I can totally see the racism against blacks and even Obama in America. These days it's disguised a lot of the time as disagreement...but I know what it is at the heart of it.

 

Not saying you are racist joeblast.

[ralis]

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/nakedcity/GOP-poll-watchers-allegedly-targeting-black-precincts-in-Pittsburgh-.html

 

GOP poll watchers allegedly targeting black precincts in Pittsburgh

 

 

Follow on Twitter @DanielDenvir

Civil rights and other progressive groups have sent a letter to Assistant U.S. Attorney General Thomas Perez alleging that the Pennsylvania Republican Party and Pittsburgh Tea Party are targeting Pittsburgh precincts with large numbers of black voters "under the guise of combating alleged voter fraud."

“We have seen their list and it strongly suggests that the Pennsylvania Republican Party is coordinating with the Pittsburgh Tea Party to target African American voters for intimidation at the polls,” according to a statement from Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Associate General Counsel Nicole Berner. “The Pennsylvania Republican Party has serious questions to answer about where they are putting their poll watchers and why.”

According to the letter, the rights organizations obtained a partial list of targeted precincts distributed at a Pittsburgh Tea Party poll watcher training coordinated with the Republican Party. The precincts have a black voter registration of over 79 percent.

 

Full text of the letter is below:

 

November 5, 2012

 

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez

Assistant Attorney General

Civil Rights Division

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20530

 

Dear Assistant Attorney General Perez:

 

The undersigned civil rights and community organizations write to raise concerns about the

likely targeting of African-American voters by the Republican Party and groups and individuals

acting in concert with it in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. Allegheny County is one of 51

jurisdictions that will be monitored by the Civil Rights Division of Department of Justice on

Election Day 2012 as part of the Department’s efforts to enforce the Voting Rights Act, to

prevent discrimination, and to the protect the rights of voters of color.

 

We have received information that strongly suggests the Republican Party, under the guise of

combating alleged voter fraud, has assigned Election Day poll watchers disproportionately to

majority African-American precincts in Allegheny County. We are in receipt of a partial list of

targeted precincts that was distributed at a poll watcher training conducted by the Pittsburgh

Tea Party Movement. The Pittsburgh Tea Party Movement conducted this training, on behalf of the

Republican Party, as part of its program to combat alleged voter fraud in Allegheny County.

We understand the Republican Party has targeted approximately 111, out of a total 1,319

precincts, in that county. The partial list, which is attached hereto as Exhibit A, includes 59 of

the total 111 precincts targeted by the Republican Party. We are unaware of any history of

voter fraud at any of these 59 locations. We are concerned that these locations are being

targeted for impermissible, racially-motivated reasons.

 

A comparison of the 59 Republican Party targeted precincts to the other precincts in Allegheny

County reveals that the targeted precincts disproportionately contain African-American voters.

Specifically, the targeted precincts are over 79% African-American. By contrast, the nontargeted

precincts contain, on average, less than 11% African-American registered voters.

 

Moreover, although the targeted precincts include only 3% of the total number of voters in

Allegheny County, they contain 18.5% of the registered African American voters. The vast

majority of these precincts are among those with the mostly highly concentrated African-

American populations in the County. A statistical analysis of the 59 Republican Party targeted

precincts is attached hereto as Exhibit B.

 

On the basis of the above, the undersigned organizations are extremely concerned that the

racial composition of the targeted precincts districts suggests that race may have been a factor

in the decision of the Republican Party to target these 59 precincts in its voter fraud prevention

program with the purpose or potential significant effect of deterring qualified African-American

voters in Allegheny County from casting their ballots and thereby suppressing the minority vote.

 

We call upon the Justice Department monitors to make every effort to ensure that voters at

these targeted locations are able to cast their ballots freely and fairly on Election Day and to

inquire of the Republican Party and the Pittsburgh Tea Party Movement as to the source of its

list and the basis of the targeting.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Advancement Project

1220 L Street, NW, Suite 850

Washington, DC 20005

Common Cause

1133 19th St NW

Washington DC 20036

 

Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law

1401 New York Avenue, NW, Suite 400

Washington, D.C. 20005

 

Service Employees International Union

1800 Massachusetts Ave, NW

Washington, DC 20036

 

American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania

313 Atwood Street

Pittsburgh, PA 15213

 

One Pittsburgh

841 California Ave

Pittsburgh, PA 15212

 

Pittsburgh A. Philip Randolph Institute

60 Blvd of the Allies, Room 208

Pittsburgh, Pa 15222

 

Pittsburgh United

841 California Ave

Pittsburgh PA 15212

 

CC:

David Hickton

U.S. Attorney

Western District of Pennsylvania

700 Grant Street, Suite 4000

Pittsburgh, PA 15219

 

Chris Herren

Chief, Voting Section

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20530

 

Meredith Bell-Platts

Deputy Chief, Voting Section

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20530

 

Spencer Ross Fisher

United States Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division, Voting Section

950 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.

Washington, DC 20530

 

David Knight

United States Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights

950 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.

Washington, DC 20530

 

 

Posted by Daniel Denvir @ 11:44 AM

Edited November 5, 2012 by ralis