Slaves, Wage slaves

[skydog]

Am I the only person who sees most forms labour very similar to slavery...

 

anyhows enough of the negativity anyone who can help me get out of this rat race, eg starting business online, making art etc with some good ideas will truly be helping me.

 

Dont get me wrong I have goals, I want to contribute but not through working 50 hours a week as a slave to survive.

[eye_of_the_storm]

It is worse than slavery really - at least a slave didn't have to worry about shelter, food, transport.

 

or something...umm

Edited October 5, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Jetsun]

Consider the psychology of wearing a tie, it wraps around your neck constricting your breathing reminiscent of a slave collar which sends submissive messages to your brain to obey or the noose will be pulled tight. Yet culturally we have been brainwashed to view it as a sign of respect

[skydog]

^lol....there are so many of these hidden types of psychology in place, I thought of one today forgot it though..anyways...

[Birch]

No, not forgotten:-)

One of the interesting things I find about 'social evolution' is that it builds on the past very slowly with very few radical breaks. So if your previous 'labour model' was one of slavery and then factory, even when whatever is being done no longer warrants that model in any sense (and even when it might make more sense to drop it), there's still going to be stuff left over from it and people who persist in justifying the practices.

There are lots of other models of work.

[Marblehead]

It's probably your Karma to be a slave becuase you were likely a slave owner in one of your previous lifes.

 

But then, ...

[daojones]

I don't think it necessarily has to be slavery, but I would say in western society wage slavery occurs. I'm going to give internet biz a shot - I'll let you know how it goes!!

 

Slavery would seem to imply that a person is forcibly being prevented from meeting other needs. I think the force can be explicit or implict. Many people are slaves to themselves. And I think they like it. I would highly recommend reading Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom (otherwise titled fear of freedom). Most people like being slaves to themselves and therefore wage slaves. Perhaps a mass exodus from inner slavery would result in a revolt against wage slavery. I think realizing one's spiritual and other needs gives the impetus for change. If a person doesn't realize these needs, they think their wage slavery is beneficial for them - in a sense they are right, but also wrong.

 

I think technology has provided an amazing way out of the rat race.

[Taomeow]

It's probably your Karma to be a slave becuase you were likely a slave owner in one of your previous lifes.

 

But then, ...

 

Actually, slavery is one strong argument against the idea of karma, because it doesn't compute statistically. There have always been, and still are, about 1 to 3% slave owners per 97 to 99% slaves. What kind of a sliding scale would karma have to resort to so that every slave reincarnates as a slave owner?.. and every slave owner reincarnates as a slave?.. Looks rather complicated mathematically.

[Marblehead]

Actually, slavery is one strong argument against the idea of karma, because it doesn't compute statistically. There have always been, and still are, about 1 to 3% slave owners per 97 to 99% slaves. What kind of a sliding scale would karma have to resort to so that every slave reincarnates as a slave owner?.. and every slave owner reincarnates as a slave?.. Looks rather complicated mathematically.

Ah!, but only the hard working slaves reincarnate to slave owners and only the abusive slave owners reincarnate to be slaves. So if there are many abusive slave owners then many would reincarnate to be slaves and if there were few hard working slaves then few would reincarnate to be owners. If one was not good at being an owner or the slave then they reincarnate back into the same life to try once again to get it right.

[Taomeow]

Ah!, but only the hard working slaves reincarnate to slave owners and only the abusive slave owners reincarnate to be slaves. So if there are many abusive slave owners then many would reincarnate to be slaves and if there were few hard working slaves then few would reincarnate to be owners. If one was not good at being an owner or the slave then they reincarnate back into the same life to try once again to get it right.

 

A hard-working slave is virtuous? A slave owner who merely takes away freedom of the body and the soul but doesn't knock out any teeth in the process is non-abusive? So, the slave-slave owner set up is karmically correct provided each party does right by the other -- the slaves give their bodies and souls to the owner and work hard toward enriching him further, while the slave owner rewards them by not flaying or impaling them? Still does not compute.

[Marblehead]

Still does not compute.

Well, I'm trying!!!

 

How about:

 

Those who are good live forever and those who are bad die when they die.

[Everything]

Just as the slaves fear the slavemaster, they should fear freedom. The slaves should surrender to their own freedom; to their fullest capacity of surrender. For if they do not obey their own freedom, they shall receive ten times the punishment that any slavemaster could possibly give them.

 

Just as the slavemaster is free to choose many things, by owning the choice of others, he should increase his own freedom of choice so much so that he will realize he is even free to be enslaved.

 

And so it is that the prince shall walk amongst his slaves and join them in his freedom, to lead his people to their ultimate slavery; where the people shall lead and the leaders shall follow.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything

[Taomeow]

Well, I'm trying!!!

 

How about:

 

Those who are good live forever and those who are bad die when they die.

 

I'd ask to see this in writing signed by god (not by middle management). And some working definitions of "good" and "bad" as they pertain to, e.g., picking cotton 16 hours a day vs. planting rice 18 hours a day vs. sitting in traffic 2 hours a day to get to the cotton plantation or the rice paddy and only picking/planting numbers on the screen for 10 hours a day. I have a feeling the rice slave would be "gooder" by some definitions -- fewer opportunities to screw up. But some clarifications would be helpful.

[Marblehead]

That sounds like it might have come from the Old Testament of the Bible or some other similar place.

[zanshin]

If you think working 50 hours per week is wage slavery and you do it anyway, then you are both the slave and the slave owner.

[skydog]

Interesting posts, and no Zanshin I do not work, I rely on mummy and daddy for food and government for benefits haha..but next year i plan to extend this period of non working with a nursing degree funded by government (safe option) and perhaps working for only a few years whilst looking at doing other things I enjoy eg art, qigong teaching, writing whatever related in this field ideally like to live half the year travelling and some of the year contributing..I got advice it seems from a tree to really focus on art for 4-5 hours a day...hmm

 

anyhow I made this post in an unstable state...sometimes do this actually this whole thread is nonsensical perhaps feeling sad my brother also feels this way about wage slavery, but works

Edited October 5, 2012 by sinansencer

[zanshin]

I didn't mean "you" specifically just people who really hate theri job and do it anyway. Sorry if it sounds like I was picking at specific you, I meant generic you, so glad you Sinansencer are not a slave and slave owner. I'm not either. Nursing would be a good option if you want flexible hours or an option to supplement your income.

[Marblehead]

Well, I attained my slavehood at the age of eleven and gave it up at the age of fifty-eight.

 

From that point I was neither a slave nor a slave owner.

 

And I'm not doing too badly for a former slave.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Marblehead

[Aetherous]

I think a person learns to appreciate the job they have, when they become fully aware of the alternative. Such as having no job (and therefore no food, shelter, water, clothing, transporation, etc)...or working for minimum wage at McDonalds (barely having those things). If you can work towards getting a lower middle class job (usually needing a college degree or apprenticeship, or just persistence in applying to various places) then you will be comfortable. Taking care of the base of your Maslow's hierarchy is the first step to freedom.

 

I suggest you start spending a lot of time looking for jobs you might enjoy. Really put some thought into it. Maybe doing some job shadowing. Instead of (no offense) whining about how reality sucks...sympathy won't ensure your survival. You must work... there's a big difference between slave wages and lower middle class. If you fully knew the difference, you wouldn't take so much issue with the fact that pretty much everyone has to work to get by...you'd be grateful that you had the opportunity to not be a slave.

[Birch]

Actually, slavery is one strong argument against the idea of karma, because it doesn't compute statistically. There have always been, and still are, about 1 to 3% slave owners per 97 to 99% slaves. What kind of a sliding scale would karma have to resort to so that every slave reincarnates as a slave owner?.. and every slave owner reincarnates as a slave?.. Looks rather complicated mathematically.

 

I don't know very much (as in 'almost nothing') about karma. I have ideas about it. The mathematical approach never struck me but (if go sneaking off into ideas about 'information entropy' which I'd be hard-pushed to actually describe (otherwise known as 'justify') I'm sure I'd find something of a something there.

 

There's a way of 'sorting' information and such into 'levels' that seemingly have no intersection with each other (or intersections that are denied, or wished aside, or other). So for example, if someone acts on a level that is considered only to be 'psychological' then that IMO/IME is a denial of the other intersecting levels at which whatever the action operates.

 

'Gates'.

 

Currently - watching out for a 'new' discipline' called 'embodied cognition'.

[SunLover]

I think a person learns to appreciate the job they have, when they become fully aware of the alternative. Such as having no job (and therefore no food, shelter, water, clothing, transporation, etc)...or working for minimum wage at McDonalds (barely having those things). If you can work towards getting a lower middle class job (usually needing a college degree or apprenticeship, or just persistence in applying to various places) then you will be comfortable. Taking care of the base of your Maslow's hierarchy is the first step to freedom.

 

I suggest you start spending a lot of time looking for jobs you might enjoy. Really put some thought into it. Maybe doing some job shadowing. Instead of (no offense) whining about how reality sucks...sympathy won't ensure your survival. You must work... there's a big difference between slave wages and lower middle class. If you fully knew the difference, you wouldn't take so much issue with the fact that pretty much everyone has to work to get by...you'd be grateful that you had the opportunity to not be a slave.

 

The only job which I am interested in is to be an inter-dimensional hopping, star-trekking, immortal god who has no need of food, water, money, sex, family, marriage, children, wealth, cars and other material shit in life. I am willing to even sacrifice my own life in exchange for godhood. To return to a permanent integration with God rather than to stick around and slave away for my children, wife and parents. Let's face it, even slave-owners are slaves themselves to the Gods. As long as you are a human being, you will always be a slave, regardless of whether you are Obama, Bill Gates or the beggar on the street.

 

In this selfish, greedy world, I will rather be a selfish god than to be an unselfish slave.

Edited October 6, 2012 by SunLover

[Aetherous]

The only job which I am interested in is to be an inter-dimensional hopping, star-trekking, immortal god who has no need of food, water, money, sex, family, marriage, children, wealth, cars and other material shit in life. I am willing to even sacrifice my own life in exchange for godhood. To return to a permanent integration with God rather than to stick around and slave away for my children, wife and parents. Let's face it, even slave-owners are slaves themselves to the Gods. As long as you are a human being, you will always be a slave, regardless of whether you are Obama, Bill Gates or the beggar on the street.

 

In this selfish, greedy world, I will rather be a selfish god than to be an unselfish slave.

 

Yes, it would be nice to not need anything. Good luck with achieving that. In the meantime...

[Marblehead]

I don't know very much (as in 'almost nothing') about karma.

And, of course, Karma is not part of my belief system. I just wanted to try the concept out in this thread.

[Marblehead]

 

Yes, it would be nice to not need anything. Good luck with achieving that. In the meantime...

... get an education, find a wife, buy a house, have some kids, take care of the parents, and live happily ever after.

[Ish]

Actually, slavery is one strong argument against the idea of karma, because it doesn't compute statistically. There have always been, and still are, about 1 to 3% slave owners per 97 to 99% slaves. What kind of a sliding scale would karma have to resort to so that every slave reincarnates as a slave owner?.. and every slave owner reincarnates as a slave?.. Looks rather complicated mathematically.

 

As i understand it, ones karma is from billions and billions of past lives, spanning across not only the human realm but animal, asura, devas and hell beings etc etc. Ones karma can be sown in this life but may only ripen after many future lives.

 

This means trying to understand the cause of arising situations is basically impossible, perhaps unless one is at a very high level of cultivation.

 

I suppose the driving force behind slave owners/slavery would be "power", or having all your power taken from you. This kind of situation is extremely broad and could be sown in a variety of situations not only the mass slave trade we have known in our time.