The idea that something is "less bad" "not as bad as something else"

[skydog]

An action which stems from hate/anger/fear etc or a hateful action (lets just assume such a thing exists in the world of non duality) is an action which stems from hate/anger/fear no matter how small/big it appears to be, what one person considers a big action or thought another doesnt what one considers small another doesnt for example thinking/judging someone as "evil" could be considered almost as bad as actually hitting them. Hitting someone as bad as killing them, killing them as bad as killing 100 people.This perspective does have some truth to it because everything connects with everything else. Also this idea that oh I didnt hit anyone in my life so I must be good causes laziness...every small thought is just as important as every hige action

[GrandmasterP]

Excellent post Sinan. The Xtians say that thinking something sinful [their word NOT mine] is the same as doing it. If you look lustfully at someone that to them is as bad as actually boffing said person whether or not you make them breakast in the morning.

I'm not convinced that's actually right. I'd far rather somebody wished me flogged rather than being really flogged. The thought does not necessarily precede an action and it's actions that do damage not thoughts. Even someone who has a lot of negative thoughts is only hurting themself just so long as they don't act on their negativity to hurt someone else.

[skydog]

Yep...

I agree with the second half of your post however this is more something that is extremely useful and perhaps even has some element of truth..If you think that the slightest negative thought is as bad as killing 100 people, how can you have anywhere near as many/if any negative thoughts (which then lead to actions)

 

Goodnight mate

Edited October 5, 2012 by sinansencer

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

That's a good point Sinan and anything that can counteract negative/cruel thinking is useful so maybe the Xtians were onto something but, as usual; they mixed in an added seasoning of guilt to make the Xtian reader feel bad.

Keeps their priests n pastors in work does guilt and its mate 'fear'.

Very useful tools in any sectarians toolbox.

Like well trained sheepdogs, guilt n fear keep the sheep firmly within the sheep-pen.

Some of our alchemical cousins are that way inclined. Terrified that they, or more often; others might somehow be cultivating 'wrongly'.

Witness their fearfully shouty posts elsewhere on here from time to time.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

You had me on board at 'just cultivate' bro.

That's all any of us can do.

;-)

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[skydog]

I am not a fan of dogma, rules or preachy rubbish, guilt, fear repressive stuff either...so thug life haha jk

 

Anyways this is an epiphany which seems to come from a tree. Maybe christianity has the same thoughts. Sometimes I also realise in myself how I run away from thoughts which are dressed in a guise which emotionally I have some discomfort with..eg parents (love them though) or written by a certain author or something that reminds me of something else, worth bearing in mind.

 

Also Im sure jesus/other early christians were enlightened as I hear how actually they studied in india, nepal, tibet etc and he got kicked out of nearly every country however the church seems to have done away with meditation, non duality in favour of a less personal religion/relationship to "god" The concept of calling god a person is similar to what hindus do but hindus also say god is in all of us...hmm

[zanshin]

Catholics have criteria for mortal and venial sins. Mortal sins have 3 criteria

 

-it's a serious matter

-the sinner realizes the seriousness of the matter and the harm that will be caused by the sin.

-the sinner freely commits the sin anyway.

 

(words sin and sinner also not mine)

 

So lustful thoughts usually would not be mortal, things like gossiping could be either depending on conditions. I do agree the criteria for mortal sins implicates "more bad"

[Aetherous]

Excellent post Sinan. The Xtians say that thinking something sinful [their word NOT mine] is the same as doing it. If you look lustfully at someone that to them is as bad as actually boffing said person whether or not you make them breakast in the morning.

I'm not convinced that's actually right. I'd far rather somebody wished me flogged rather than being really flogged. The thought does not necessarily precede an action and it's actions that do damage not thoughts. Even someone who has a lot of negative thoughts is only hurting themself just so long as they don't act on their negativity to hurt someone else.

 

The Buddhists for instance say the same exact thing...body, speech, MIND. Everything we do has a repercussion, for better or worse.

 

As a practicing Christian, I am of the opinion that the guilt tripping is useless. "The Law" is supposed to be for our benefit, and we are not supposed to act as burdened slaves of it, but rather to use it as a way of improving our lives. This is illustrated by Jesus breaking the sabbath to help people.

 

If you know that laying down in a fire will burn you, then it's beneficial that you don't do that. If you would really enjoy laying down in a fire...then it's unfortunate that you now know how harmful it can be...but the 'rules' are there to help you out. To avoid feeling the consequences of doing something harmful. Not to make you feel horrible about your life...live your life, make mistakes, have fun! What else is life for, but to enjoy yourself?

 

It's said that mercy triumphs over judgement, and that we are supposed to treat our neighbor as ourselves (so, not better, not worse, but exactly the same). So being able to forgive yourself for being imperfect...nothing wrong with that. That's actually adding merit and mending errors. Jesus was big on teaching forgiveness of others, and asking for forgiveness for oneself. The key is to create more good will in the real world...not to put a burden on people, as the church has done at times.

 

Yes, it is a 'departure from the Tao'...it is not loving God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, as the first commandment says to do...to be absorbed in lustful thoughts. Another way we could say it is: you're not meditating when you think of having sex with someone. Duh. lol

 

There may be subtle issues with it...like you're creating an energetic or mind connection with that person, against their will. Our thoughts are not merely contained within our skulls! When you connect with someone, you share your mental space...your karma. So what if you're bringing someone bad luck, by thinking about having sex with them...in that light, then yeah it's not a positive thing to be doing.

 

So saying that it's bad to fantasize...well, that's just trying to help you lead a rewarding life, in my opinion. One without negative consequences. It's like saying, you should meditate and let go, it will help you. Or like saying, there might be negative consequences down to the road, when you do that...instead you should develop these positive qualities, like mercy, peace, etc.

 

If you start guilt tripping about anything, then of course, you're doubly worse off. The only way to remove the guilt is to do a lot more good.

 

Sorry, kind of rambling and unstructured post.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[GrandmasterP]

If more Xtians saw things like you do turtle it'd be a happier religion than it is in some of its manifestations. Jolly good post.

There is a Catholic meditation movement. Guy called John Main started it. Carmelite monk he was,left his body now but te idea goes on. There are books and they run workshops. Also there was that guy who started a Hindu cum Xtian Ashram i India. Forget his name but he was a Xtian priest. The Cistercian Thomas Merton was on our wavelength too before his tragic accident and early demise.

There's a interfaith council in our local city. Nice enough group once a month. Bit of a talking shop but the catering is excellent.

[Aetherous]

If more Xtians saw things like you do turtle it'd be a happier religion than it is in some of its manifestations. Jolly good post.

 

Each idea comes from the Bible itself. Yeah, it'd be nice if more so called Christians lived the life. Glad you liked it.

[skydog]

Two comments...

 

what make some think that if they do not choose good right now that they will choose good latter on is beyond me... right now each must choose what they want to cultivate once and for all...

 

The thing with mercy is that one has to ask for it or at the very least accept it... and most if not all of the unrepentant condemned would not do either one...

 

and one more thing Jesus way though us to treat our neighbor and ourselves as Jesus Christ would...

 

I was reading about sufism and one of the "sins" is to not want a long life (as to avoid and put off living and doing good things now so you can put them off for later)

 

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Edited October 7, 2012 by sinansencer

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts