direct transmission thru a book/webcast

[healingtouch]

your opinion: possible or not possible?

 

Also, please list in this thread books/webcasts claiming to offer such a transmission.

 

And now, I'll start myself

 

Lama Surya Das - Natural Radiance (book)

Reginald A. Ray - Mahamudra for the Modern World (webcast)

[Birch]

Yes possible. Although I'd add that 'possible' seems complicated to me now.

The guys at KAP. Live (webcasted) meditation teachings and sessions.

[RongzomFan]

Only if the webcast is live, and the person giving it is legitimate.

 

There is no transmission from a book.

[Leif]

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu: http://tsegyalgar.org/theteachings/worldwidetransmissions/

 

As for KAP, that might be a bit different, my subjective understanding is that it's purely a safety measure (in other words you can practice KAP drills without transmission, it's not "restricted teaching").

[rex]

Some specialist occult publishers hold great store in their talismanic books - limited print runs, special materials, astrological timing in the production process, attunement rituals, printed sigils etc.

 

Don't know if it's all a load of baloney and a con but given the nature of the spiritual contacts some of these books are dedicated to I wouldn't like to find out.

[GrandmasterP]

If the transmitter thinks so and the reciever believes so then yes.

Meeting such claimants one tends to think ,not really but transmission is invariably a subjective experience when discussed.

Empirical assessment along the lines of.... ability before transmission compared to ability after.... is hard to see internally.

Not a better/worse critique what follws simply a contribution for debate.

Student cultivating a QiGong form vis DVD gets so far and is stuck.

Comes to a class and after one hour has overcome any barriers and has demonstrably 'got it'.

That to me is transmission. Anything less than that being merely talking about transmission.

[Jetsun]

The only book which has had a strange affect on me is 'Words of my Perfect Teacher' by Patrul Rinpoche, just reading the first page almost brought me to tears. It could be that I was just moody or emotional at the time but I don't think so as thinking about it now brings back similar sensations. It might not be only due to the book though as I had received a form of reception or non official initiation of Bodhicitta from a Buddhist monk in person previously which may have connected me to the lineage somehow, so maybe without that the book would have not have had similar impact.

[GrandmasterP]

If the idea catches on the knock on effect to the guru business could be devastating. Most of the pro gurus make their money from ticket sales for giving satsangs or similar direct transmission-opportunity events.

[Aetherous]

There is no transmission from a book.

 

If you don't read it, this is true.

[RongzomFan]

If the idea catches on the knock on effect to the guru business could be devastating. Most of the pro gurus make their money from ticket sales for giving satsangs or similar direct transmission-opportunity events.

 

Anyone who falls for neoAdvaitin idiots giving satsang, deserves to have their money stolen.

Edited October 12, 2012 by alwayson

[GrandmasterP]

Awww c'mon it's the same schtick whatever the tradition. DL makes a mint doing mass initiations. That last Kalakchakra gig in America netted millons of dollars. If folk believe it and that's what they want someone will always step up to the plate and supply the market.

Keeping it mystical and magical pulls in the punters. Initiation is actually a form of indenture into apprenticeship but if anyone can make a nice living selling it as something it aint then some will and those who do so are seldom short of shills with open wallets.

[Birch]

Yeah, I'd put myself in the skeptics camp and at the same time I have to (embarrassingly or not, I guess that doesn't matter) that during one KAP live teaching session I had a very (subjectively) real experience of a blue/electric current passing through my body.

And on other occasions (nothing 'sought', no KAP) very (subjectively) real experiences of:

 

- 'something' rushing up my spine and making disklike felt things 'spin' as it did so. When I looked at my hands, the veins were blue and standing out, then they receded - 'cause' likely the sun-salute chakra yoga I had decided to do

- two distinct felt things (like 'fish') 'swimming' up my back criss-cross.- 'cause' I don't know.

 

Since then I have read that all this is not very 'advanced' in cultivation terms but it is/was for me.

 

 

[Jetsun]

Awww c'mon it's the same schtick whatever the tradition. DL makes a mint doing mass initiations. That last Kalakchakra gig in America netted millons of dollars. If folk believe it and that's what they want someone will always step up to the plate and supply the market.

Keeping it mystical and magical pulls in the punters. Initiation is actually a form of indenture into apprenticeship but if anyone can make a nice living selling it as something it aint then some will and those who do so are seldom short of shills with open wallets.

 

Have you ever received an initiation?

 

There may a reason why he is doing mass initiations, ie their entire culture is falling apart and it is important to get their wisdom out there while they can before it is lost, I don't think his his main motivation is money, for example this year he did the youth day in Manchester for free and as a result they lost money in total.

[GrandmasterP]

Sounds pretty advanced to me K. Some people go years without anything along those lines.

Transmission is a fact for sure and happens all the time. My issue such as it is is with people who dress it up in mumbo jumbo or quasi mystical ritual [Tibet anyone?] and sell that notion or potion to gullible punters. As if the transmitter had some sort of magic power for sale. The 'power' is there with the student all the time a good teacher simply facilitates student overcoming their own barriers.

[Birch]

Well, Mr GrandP. I was under the impression that all this was pretty 'vanced'.

However, as you may have noticed it hasn't made of me anything enlightened. In fact, as a bystander I'd say 'holy crap, what happened???' Both lots of things and not much at all.

 

[GrandmasterP]

That whole enlightenment thang seems a bit over rated to me. I've listened to and sat with more than one or two who claimed it. Even had a master years ago who traded on the idea. When you get to know 'em though they are just guys getting by same as the rest of us. Nearest I get is when it all sorta comes together in cultivation and that sure doesn't last for long. No way can I describe it. Transcends words somehow. You know what I mean K.

[GrandmasterP]

Only had the two initiations. One when I was young and foolish. Had a great time then moved on and the other back in the 80s when I knew a bit more but that was more entering into an apprenticeship along the lines of [and by one of the people] the southern China fashion. Nothing remotely mystical about it. That one actually 'worked'. Cheng school. You may have heard of it.

[RongzomFan]

Regarding many of GrandmasterP's assertions:

 

I want to point out that many Vajrayana transmissions are completely free, including many webcasts.

 

Secondly, direct introduction is never billed as something "magical." If you think it is something magical, you missed the entire point. Anytime a Vajrayana master is talking about one's nature, that is considered direct introduction. It is not something mystical.

 

Thirdly, you can hear what the Dalai Lama says regarding Kalachakra. Dalai Lama uses Kalachakra as lure to give a three day intensive on Madhyamaka etc. And the lecture is on Youtube for free. And I'm not even aware there is a fee for Kalachakra at all.

 

 

Lastly, the Tibetan Vajrayana system, is the direct continuation of Indian Vajrayana. If you want to blame someone, blame the long gone Indian Vajrayanists, not "Tibet."

Edited October 15, 2012 by alwayson

[JustARandomPanda]

 

And on other occasions (nothing 'sought', no KAP) very (subjectively) real experiences of:

 

- 'something' rushing up my spine and making disklike felt things 'spin' as it did so.

 

Holy moly! I recognize this! I had that exact experience once too! Happened on a very ordinary, run-o-the-mill meditation night for me. It's never happened again and to this day can not for the life of me figure out why it did it that night but never has again.

[joeblast]

The last book I got this sort of thing from was wang li ping's - right towards the end of his opening blurb there he gives a very gracious thanks, and deeply resonated warmness all over me. It was pretty interesting. The tao reflects upon itself

[Birch]

The last book I got this sort of thing from was wang li ping's - right towards the end of his opening blurb there he gives a very gracious thanks, and deeply resonated warmness all over me. It was pretty interesting. The tao reflects upon itself

 

I figure that (what you just said) all by itself could 'transmit' to a few people

Oh alright, only works on me. Thanks JB!

[Birch]

Holy moly! I recognize this! I had that exact experience once too! Happened on a very ordinary, run-o-the-mill meditation night for me. It's never happened again and to this day can not for the life of me figure out why it did it that night but never has again.

 

Did you find it weird and f*cked up?

I did. It's also (one of) the reasons I'm on this silly forum

 

I don't know why it hasn't happened again either and I don't think I want it to. Unless there's a very good reason for why it would be a good idea.

[三江源]

If you think about it, what on this planet doesnt carry a transmission....

 

ime reading a text can and does link one directly to the author and the lineage behind that author in a very palpable and powerful way. wether you are aware of it, is one thing, the other thing, is wether the author or lineage is interested in you, or not.

 

here's a link to a thread here some time ago, about a book which had a transmission:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/7975-michael-winn-on-his-wifes-passing/page__st__16

[GrandmasterP]

Regarding many of GrandmasterP's assertions:

 

I want to point out that many Vajrayana transmissions are completely free, including many webcasts.

 

Secondly, direct introduction is never billed as something "magical." If you think it is something magical, you missed the entire point. Anytime a Vajrayana master is talking about one's nature, that is considered direct introduction. It is not something mystical.

 

Thirdly, you can hear what the Dalai Lama says regarding Kalachakra. Dalai Lama uses Kalachakra as lure to give a three day intensive on Madhyamaka etc. And the lecture is on Youtube for free. And I'm not even aware there is a fee for Kalachakra at all.

 

 

Lastly, the Tibetan Vajrayana system, is the direct continuation of Indian Vajrayana. If you want to blame someone, blame the long gone Indian Vajrayanists, not "Tibet."

Regarding many of GrandmasterP's assertions:

 

I want to point out that many Vajrayana transmissions are completely free, including many webcasts.

 

Secondly, direct introduction is never billed as something "magical." If you think it is something magical, you missed the entire point. Anytime a Vajrayana master is talking about one's nature, that is considered direct introduction. It is not something mystical.

 

Thirdly, you can hear what the Dalai Lama says regarding Kalachakra. Dalai Lama uses Kalachakra as lure to give a three day intensive on Madhyamaka etc. And the lecture is on Youtube for free. And I'm not even aware there is a fee for Kalachakra at all.

 

 

Lastly, the Tibetan Vajrayana system, is the direct continuation of Indian Vajrayana. If you want to blame someone, blame the long gone Indian Vajrayanists, not "Tibet."

 

..............................

No 'blame' impled budy. Whatever floats anyone's boat is just that and good luck to them.

It's a living for some is doing initiations, stasangs and the like for others they give it away, altruistic sorts that they are.

Tony Parsons has to charge an entrance fee to pay for te hire of the hall. At the other end of the scale I had an invitation recently to an 'exclusive transmission' workshop, just a one-day gig. Fee was £350-00 and teh guy doing it gets that as he travels (First Class) all over the place putting these gigs on.

If it's what folk need and want then someone will provide the service.

Those who don't want it won't 'go' for it.

Both those positions are equally valid as are any and all opinions.

Attacking a messenger doesn't especially affect the message being carried.

[doc benway]

your opinion: possible or not possible?

 

 

Yes and no.

 

'Yes' answer -

A few books have communicated things to me on a level beyond the words and concepts.

And more than just subtext and context.

It was almost as if I was being given something more than met the eye.

The most profound example was the book To Be Human by Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Never participated in a webcast so can't comment there.

 

'No' answer -

The most meaningful transmission occurs through human contact. It occurs on multiple levels of interaction, some of which are beyond conscious awareness. There are clearly levels of subliminal communication and neurologic mirroring going on in all relationship. Whether this occurs more with "masters" I think is debatable, but there are things that go on in person that do not occur through books or webcasts, IMO. Those subtle factors can make all the difference.