Seeking Translation

[Ron Goninan]

Seeking Translation

Hi,

 

I'm seeking a translation of these two images if anyone can help:

 

[Ron Goninan]

Chi Dragon, Anyone???

[exorcist_1699]

Although the lower diagram looks stupid and superficial , I still translate it as below; anyhow it reflects what level most Chinese Taoists on the Mainland attain :

Edited October 16, 2012 by exorcist_1699

[Ron Goninan]

Thank You very much. It makes sense to me and I guess that's what matters!

 

Can you do the first diagram please???

[exorcist_1699]

I am not familiar with the Chinese martial art, to which the upper diagram's content related , so

better let other people do the translation.

Edited October 16, 2012 by exorcist_1699

[ChiDragon]

This seems like a Zhan Zhuang stance with the legs bent and the hands hinging down.

 

頭戴石磨: head wear a stone grinder

 

垂脊正身: suspend the spine and straighten the torso

龜背鶴身: Turtle back and crane torso

懸肩插胛: suspend the shoulder and stick it into the shoulder blade

手似楊柳: the hand is like a willow tree

 

氣沉丹田: Chi sink to the dan tian

鬆腰坐胯: loosen the waist and sit on crotch

圓襠曲膝: circular stance and bend the knees

 

不丁不八步: the legs do not stand like the character "丁" nor like the character "八".

 

帥: General

主: Master

兵: Soldier

將: General

Edited October 18, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ron Goninan]

Great! Thank you so very much!!!

 

Could you please translate the following:

 

間，昂首振羽間，昂首振羽

 

將白鶴的振翅、撲翼、抖翎、晾羽、纏脖、鳴叫等動作，揉合在少林

 

[ChiDragon]

Could you please translate the following:

 

間，昂首振羽間，昂首振羽

In between, in between raise the head and vibrate the wings, raise the head and vibrate the wings

 

將白鶴的振翅、撲翼、抖翎、晾羽、纏脖、鳴叫等動作，揉合在少林

Let the vibrating wings of the white crane, swing the wings, tremble the plume, hing dry the feather, wind the neck, and scream and etc., integrate these moves as Shaolin(少林).

Figure 1: In the Chinese Tao religion "xing, chi, shen" are the three basic criteria as a whole in the observation of the human body structure.

 

練精化氣: refine jing into chi

練氣化神: refine chi into shen

 

形: form

氣: energy

神: the spirit or the soul of the human body

 

軀體結構: body structure

生命結構: vital structure

心理結構: psychological structure

 

物質: substance

能量: energy

信息: information; signal; intelligence.

Edited October 18, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ron Goninan]

Thank you so very much! Greatly appreciated!

[ChiDragon]

You welcome...

 

BTW This float chart is more comprehensible and updated with modern terminologies I've seen so far....

Edited October 22, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ron Goninan]

That's fantastic! You have been very kind. Thank you so much!

[kaaazuo]

You welcome...

 

BTW This float chart is more comprehensible and updated with modern terminologies I've seen so far....

 

Mr Chi, can you explain Chapter 4 of the TTC based on your translation?

[ChiDragon]

Mr Chi, can you explain Chapter 4 of the TTC based on your translation?

 

Chapter 4 - The Fathomless Tao.

1. Tao is a vessel and its function seems inexhaustible.

2. Abyss, aha! It seems like the ancestry of all things.

3/7. Fathomless, aha! Unconscious or conscious.

4/8. I don't know whose son he is,

5/9. It seems like Tao was before the heavenly god.

 

***** lines 3 through 6 seem to be out of context. They were reappeared in Chapter 56*****

 

1. 道沖而用之或不盈。

2. 淵兮似萬物之宗。

3. 挫其銳

4. 解其紛，

5. 和其光，

6. 同其塵，

7. 湛兮似或存。

8. 吾不知誰之子，

9. 象帝之先。

 

Chapter 4 was describing the characteristic of Tao by Lao Tze. Lao Tze was an atheist, he does not believe in god. He doesn't believe that Tao is a god neither. He wanted to emphasis that Tao is just natural which does not govern by any god. However, Tao is the creator of all things with inexhaustible power. I think Chapter 4 was saying that.

 

The reason that Lao Tze was using the vessel as an example for Tao because the vessel symbolized "encompass" and it is limitless. Tao is the creator of all things even before the existence of god.

Edited October 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[kaaazuo]

Chapter 4 - The Fathomless Tao.

1. Tao is a vessel and its function seems inexhaustible.

2. Abyss, aha! It seems like the ancestry of all things.

3/7. Fathomless, aha! Unconscious or conscious.

4/8. I don't know whose son he is,

5/9. It seems like Tao was before the heavenly god.

 

***** lines 3 through 6 seem to be out of context. They were reappeared in Chapter 56*****

 

1. 道沖而用之或不盈。

2. 淵兮似萬物之宗。

3. 挫其銳

4. 解其紛，

5. 和其光，

6. 同其塵，

7. 湛兮似或存。

8. 吾不知誰之子，

9. 象帝之先。

 

Chapter 4 was describing the characteristic of Tao by Lao Tze. Lao Tze was an atheist, he does not believe in god. He doesn't believe that Tao is a god neither. He wanted to emphasis that Tao is just natural which does not govern by any god. However, Tao is the creator of all things with inexhaustible power. I think Chapter 4 was saying that.

 

Mr Chi, you are very courageous to declare lines 3 through 6 as out of context. I salute you for that.

Other translators don't dare to question the text and translate it as it is even though is sounds crazy.

 

I like your translation because it is direct from Chinese with no messing around.

 

Can I show you my translation which attempts to include lines 3 through 6 and put them in context of Chapter 4?

Any criticism you offer will be deeply appreciated.

[ChiDragon]

Thank you for the kind words. Please do show me your translation...!!!

 

BTW I had edited my post, please read it again. Thanks...!!!

 

 

PS....

Actually I am not as courageous as you thought that I was. The conclusion brought to my attention was based from the most knowledgeable native scholars.

Edited October 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[kaaazuo]

Thank you for the kind words. Please do show me your translation...!!!

 

BTW I had edited my post, please read it again. Thanks...!!!

 

 

 

Ok, I read it. Are you still here? My apologies for this delayed reply. I could not access Tao Bums website through my browser for days! I just got in now. Here, for your assessment, is my translation of Chapter 4 followed by commentary in italics:

 

4

 

The Way - that boundless immensity encompassing the ten thousand things;

 

 

Dull the starkness,

Diffuse the chaos,

Cut the glare,

Be like dust

 

Deep within yet ever present.

I don't know what gave rise to it.

It precedes the Emperor.

 

The Emperor is a cultural symbol. It stands for supreme authority conferred by Heaven. Thus, to the Chinese, the Emperor is the Son of Heaven. This is not to be confused with the Son of God, a Christian ideology.

 

Deep down, you know that life is profound even though you cannot pin down the reason for it to be. You sense a grand scheme of things holding everything together.

 

From the furthest galaxies to the atomic structure of matter, there is that omnipresent order. It is there.

 

Then, here you are, the Emperor, standing between Heaven and the common man who, bewildered and confused, is trying to figure out why the ten thousand things have come to be.

 

The Way stands for this wondrous flow of life in all its endless diversity; consistent yet ever- changing; permanent but never the same. To be one with it, you must,

 

Dull the starkness of reality and cut the glare of life’s bedazzlements.

 

Untangle your conflicts and diffuse the chaos within and without.

 

Give up your self-importance and be like dust!

[ChiDragon]

kaaazuo.....

 

Dull the starkness,

Diffuse the chaos,

Cut the glare,

Be like dust

 

Deep within yet ever present.

I don't know what gave rise to it.

It precedes the Emperor.

 

Sorry, I do not see that this translation is about life nor the emperor. If "it" precedes the Emperor, then Emperor is not the subject that we are really interested. What do you think that the "it" was"...???

[kaaazuo]

Sorry, I do not see that this translation is about life nor the emperor. If "it" precedes the Emperor, then Emperor is not the subject that we are really interested. What do you think that the "it" was"...???

 

The "it" is the origin of life and that means the origin of me.

I don't know what gave rise to me.

Aha, I precedes the Emperor.

 

 

知 者 不 言，言 者 不 知

 

Am I right, Mr Chi?

[ChiDragon]

kaazuo.....

Welcome back...........

[kaaazuo]

Mr Chi, do we pronounce this 閻 羅 王 in Cantonese as Yeen Low Wong ?

[ChiDragon]

Mr Chi, do we pronounce this 閻 羅 王 in Cantonese as Yeen Low Wong ?

 

kaaazuo...

Go into this site:

http://www.oddcast.c...ple.php?sitepal

 

1. Copy 閻 羅 王 and paste in the "Enter Text:" window.

2. Select "Chinese" in the "Language:" window.

3. Select "Sin-Ji(Cantonese)" in the "Voice:" window.

4. Click the "Say It" button.

[kaaazuo]

Mr Chi, this is a great site. I am now learning the Tao Te Ching in Cantonese.

Thanks a lot. Any good dim sum place where you live? I would like to buy you

dim sum breakfast and good tea. Do you prefer poh lei or 龍 井?

[ChiDragon]

Kaaazuo....

Yes, there is a good dim sum place close by where I live. I like 龍 井 more than poh lei.

 

Thank you very much for your hospitality...!!!...

[kaaazuo]

Mr Chi, based on the Cantonese I am listening to, 欲 means “flesh”. So the following lines:

5. 故常無,欲以觀其妙。

6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。

should be translated as

5. Hence, when flesh is not, behold the mystery.

6. When flesh is, behold the form.

So, why do you prefer the translation below?

5. Hence, when Tao is always invisible, one would grok its quale.

6. When Tao is always visible, one would observe its boundary.

[ChiDragon]

5. 故常無, 欲以觀其妙。

6. 常有,欲以觀其徼。

 

Let's look at the text by paying close attention to the punctuation, coma

5: 故常無,

Hence(故), when Tao is always invisible(常無),

 

欲以觀其妙。

One would (欲) grok its mystery.

 

欲 means desire.

I think you got confused with 肉(flesh). These two characters are pronounce the same in Cantonese.

 

The reason I use grok for 觀(observe) is because one cannot observe a mystery; but one can only comprehend it by grokking.

 

6. 常有, 欲以觀其徼。

When Tao is visible(常有), one would(欲) observe its(其) boundary(徼).