How many people practice Taoism to gain supernatural powers?

[thelerner]

What we want counts for little.

What we do, how much we practice..is what counts.

(apologies to The Secret, I'll put my money on the person who's working towards a goal not the one who's sitting and wishing real hard.)

 

 

More_Pie theists could grasp what you're talking about and think just like you; The other is clueless and on the wrong path. Not much difference at all.

[Thunder_Gooch]

theists could grasp

 

Yes I think technically they probably could, but they have this huge psychological firewall up preventing it from occurring. Should what I say manage to break through that it would and has caused massive anxiety and nausea, existential crisis, depression, psychosis.

 

I've observed the exact same reaction in Atheists as well. When it really clicks with a person it's like being punched gonads a few hundred times.

 

When I try to tell people what I've realized the ones that actually get it, usually freak out pretty badly.

 

 

The other is clueless and on the wrong path.

 

I'm not suggesting I am on the right path. Right is purely subjective, and if a person doesn't care about what happens post mortem, there really are no wrong choices.

 

Even then for me to be on a right path would mean I have a clearly defined goal, and that I have the ablility to achieve it, and that I do actually succeed in achieving it.

 

More than likely I won't be successful, I have no instruction to continue on and can only go so far on my own.

 

My only hope is that when I complete my training that a new door is opened to allow me to continue.

 

I also agree wishcraft doesn't work, elbow grease with the right plan of action does however.

Edited October 15, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Cheshire Cat]

Your question assumes we exist independent of experience.

 

No, it doesn't.

In both cases, we experience.

 

An ancient said:

"There is a true person of no rank in the mass of human flesh, always coming and going trough the door of our senses. Those who have not witnessed it, look".

This assumes that there is something behind. I don't know, sincerely.

[Thunder_Gooch]

We experience it because it is real,

 

Assumes we exist, and we are experiencing something that also exists but is external to ourselves.

 

 

or it is real because we experience it?

 

Assumes we exist, and that our experience grants some reality external to what we experience.

 

 

 

we experience.

 

Saying "we experience" is really like saying, "we human" in which human is meant as a verb.

 

A better way of putting it would be, We are the experience we are having and nothing more than that, everything we see, feel, smell, taste, hear, remember, visualize, imagine, verbalize, think, intuit, feel with our emotion, every bit of experience we have that is exactly what we are, and absolutely nothing more than that.

 

 

 

"Your body is empty; emptiness is your body. Emptiness

is nothing but your body, and your body is nothing but emptiness."

 

"Every existing thing is emptiness."

 

 

"There are no eyes; no ears; no nose; no tongue; no body; no mind; nothing to see; nothing to hear; nothing to smell; nothing to taste; nothing to touch; and nothing to think of."

 

 

"There is no part of you that sees. There is no part of you that is aware of what you see; and this is true all the way up to the part of you that thinks, and the part of you that is aware that you are thinking."

 

-Buddha (quoted from The Heart Sutra)

 

 

 

 

If you want this explored more in depth, let's not derail his thread. Maybe create a new topic in the pit to address it, and I'll try to answer more in depth as I have time.

Edited October 15, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Birch]

It would be easier to get Richard Dawkins to become a devout Baptist, than it would be for me to write off what I've seen and experienced first hand.

 

I know what I am, and I know what God is. Not in some faith based belief sort of way, but as in a belief based on experience, observation and evidence sort of way. I am also fairly sure I know exactly what's going to happen after death based on the experience I had in 2005.

 

Of course if any theist could grasp what I was talking about they would immediately become violently sick and have a really bad acid trip level experience. Of the few Christians I've spoken with, the only one that what I said clicked with went on to have an existential melt down.

 

Think they should just do acid instead;-)?

There are reasons why all that stuff gets banned :-)

You have a clear goal Mr Pie. May all the whatnots in all the realms help you achieve it. :-)

[Thunder_Gooch]

Think they should just do acid instead;-)?

There are reasons why all that stuff gets banned :-)

You have a clear goal Mr Pie. May all the whatnots in all the realms help you achieve it. :-)

 

I ate enough shrooms to have to crawl on the floor before.

 

Still that experience conveyed nothing profound or life changing, nothing like what I experienced as a result of my experiment in 2005 with meditation.

 

There is really no way to go back to being normal after having experienced something of that magnitude, I fake it pretty well though.

 

I think if your goal is to have an enjoyable life that you actually abandon the search for the profound, don't do shrooms, meditation, or acid.

 

Get a job, and good wife/husband and family and try to enjoy it, if being happy is your goal.

Edited October 15, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

I might start a new thread in the pit, I've talked about it quite a bit already, It's not something people really care about or take seriously.

[idiot_stimpy]

More Pie Guy, by all means you're welcome to discuss in this thread.

[Stosh]

I might start a new thread in the pit, I've talked about it quite a bit already, It's not something people really care about or take seriously.

You are adding to an interesting thread , and if Stimpy is Ok with continuation

I would add ,,,folks , maybe not caring or taking seriously your revelations visibly , doesnt imply that

they would not benefit reading it.

Stosh

[Thunder_Gooch]

You are adding to an interesting thread , and if Stimpy is Ok with continuation

I would add ,,,folks , maybe not caring or taking seriously your revelations visibly , doesnt imply that

they would not benefit reading it.

Stosh

 

I'll try to post something in the pit when I can find the time and energy to. It may be a while.

[Birch]

I ate enough shrooms to have to crawl on the floor before.

Still that experience conveyed nothing profound or life changing, nothing like what I experienced as a result of my experiment in 2005 with meditation.

There is really no way to go back to being normal after having experienced something of that magnitude, I fake it pretty well though.

I think if your goal is to have an enjoyable life that you actually abandon the search for the profound, don't do shrooms, meditation, or acid.

Get a job, and good wife/husband and family and try to enjoy it, if being happy is your goal.

 

On powers. Be careful out there kids http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706593/

 

Hehe, if movies like this 'cautionary tale' are being made, who knows Mr Pie, you could be onto something.

I actualy do take this stuff seriously. Just because I don't have any powers doesn't mean I'm not interested:-)

 

 

[Cat Pillar]

Superpowers used to be my goal. Now, I'm just trying to come to terms with a reality that is completely illogical.

 

I don't understand anything anymore. Life itself is just...confusing. There's no purpose for it, no reason for it to exist. Yet here it is. How strange!

[de_paradise]

When I first started, perhaps I did not understand that superpowers were somehow a biproduct of spiritual cultivation. As I understood, they became perhaps something to toy in my head, wouldnt that be neat. I suppose upfront motivation is always good, because the path is long. At some point one understands that superpowers are silliness compared to the goals of liberation, and just as a person has two hands and can create causes and conditions to progress towards liberation, one can also use some other power or method, such as the superpower of "typing a message to be seen by many" to make progress. Out of the many who start the path chasing superpowers, obviously most drop out, and others get to see the big picture eventually. Still others who have superpowers either from their own effort or just somehow born with them, are just living mundane lives, nothing all that special.

[idiot_stimpy]

How are some born with them?

[shanlung]

Have I mentioned that I do not believe in supernatural anything?

 

Ah!! A scientificologist in our midst. Nothing but scientifically possible or plausible or that do not exist.

But like it or not, the giant tree will fall in the forest even if you or no one there to see and hear it.

 

I find it most amusing that ancient Romans in the time of Julius Caeser felt all that could be invented had been invented by them.

 

And before you laugh at it, Amercian congress and the top scientific minds of America wanted to remove the patent office in early 1900s as they felt all the science and inventions possible was done by then.

 

European scientists of that time thought everything to know of science was known other than a few more decimal places of accuracy other than the quaint properties of pitchblende.

 

I have no idea how the I Ching gave me answers so accurate that my hair stood on end even now when I thought back of it. For that matter, Ouja board told me stuff that should not be known. It was clear to me I could get the knowledge. I feared I just did not have the wisdom to deal with that kind of knowledge.

 

I had a few more experiences other than what I wrote in Fragments of Taiwan, even if those were not of that intensity.

 

I wish you more experiences on the path that you are walking.

 

On my part, I accepted what happened, regardless if they were not possible or not plausible.

 

You then will have interesting choice. To deny what you have seen first hand and pretend that never happened as scientifically that could not have happened.

 

The choice is yours alone.

 

That the science of today is the final word and whatever not possible in that science of today must be ignored and rubbished to your hearts content.

 

 

Taoistic Idiot

[Cheshire Cat]

Saying "we experience" is really like saying, "we human" in which human is meant as a verb.

 

Yes, but where is this business of independence from experience?

 

Your question assumes we exist independent of experience.

 

It doesn't matter if we consider ourselves empty, full, illusory, rainbow-colored.

We experience. It's a fact.

Can you say "I don't experience at all"?

 

You may even say that to experience is an illusion, that we are the experience.

Still, you perceive things and have experience.

And more. You use this experience to describe reality in a specific way.

Is it the experience that experiences itself? It doesn't matter because

 

the question remains untouched

 

We experience it because it is real,

or it is real because we experience it?

 

Assuming that we are the experience:

 

The experience experiences itself because it is real,

or it is real because experience experiences itself?

 

In the second case, it's relevant that experience experiences itself in different ways, in contradictory ways also... to make up a coherent reality. That's why atheists live in a world without spirituality and it is coherent, complete and funny, they know why things work in a certain way... and spiritual seekers live in a world of spiritual being and this same world is coherent, complete and funny, they know why things work in a certain way.

Who lives the right reality?

 

What is real in all of this?

Edited October 16, 2012 by DAO rain TAO

[Marblehead]

Superpowers used to be my goal. Now, I'm just trying to come to terms with a reality that is completely illogical.

 

I don't understand anything anymore. Life itself is just...confusing. There's no purpose for it, no reason for it to exist. Yet here it is. How strange!

You Sir, are at the same place on your path (in your life) that Albert Camus was when he began formulating his theory of the absurdity of human life. (Yes, he concludes that life is still worth living.)

[idiot_stimpy]

There is just as much reason for life to exist than there is for it to not.

 

Many teachers warn that with advanced meditation practices, there is a risk to fall into nihilism.

 

 

 

Ever desireless, one sees the mystery.

Edited October 16, 2012 by idiot_stimpy

[Marblehead]

Ah!! A scientificologist in our midst. Nothing but scientifically possible or plausible or that do not exist.

But like it or not, the giant tree will fall in the forest even if you or no one there to see and hear it.

Yep. That's me. However, don't sell me short. I have never said that humankind knows everything that is to be known. Hey!, Line 1, Chapter 1, TTC states as much. Paraphrased, What we know isn't everything that can be known and everything that can be known will never be known.

 

However, I think it is safer believing in "what is" as opposed to "what could be". And for me, this "what is" is only my present understanding. If new knowledge presents itself I may need to alter my understanding.

 

To the tree. Yes, I like trees even though I have none in my yard. If yesterday the tree was vertical to the earth's horizon and today that same tree is parallel with the earth's horizon it is a given that it did fall. (How it fell doesn't matter here.)

 

There are two questions here:

 

1. Does the tree truely exist as an individual entity or is it simply a creation of my mind?

 

2. What the tree fell, did it make a sound?

 

Responding to these two questions:

 

1. If two different people see the same tree at different moments in time prior to encountering each other then I suggest that the tree is not just a figment of my imagination but that it really does exist in and of itself. A very good test of this is to try to walk through the tree. If you can walk through it then it was an illusion. If you end up with a bloody nose then the tree exists. Testing this repeatedly is one of the tests in science. However, I do not recommend repeatedly walking into a tree as you will likely become dead.

 

2. So the tree fell. Did it make a sound. First the question, "What is sound?" must be asked. Sound is the result of a hearing device being activated. Human ears can do this. How does this happen? The vibrations in the air of the movement of an object causes the ear drum to vibrate which produces the sensation of sound in the brain.

 

If no humans were around when the tree fell then there was no sound perceived by any human but if there were any squirrels around they damn sure would have ran for cover because they would have heard the tree falling.

 

But even if there were no other animals around to "hear" the vibrations the vibrations still would have occurred. That's just the way life is.

 

 

So I suggest that presenting someone as limiting themself by not allowing illusions and delusions into their life is an error; perhaps even a flaw. Life is wonderous and beautiful and mysterious enough all on its own. Life does not need the human imagination to make it prettier than it already is. The human mind should concentrate on trying to understand it, to live within its boundaries, utilize and renew its resources, and live as closely as possible to the processes that govern the universe and all things within.

 

One does not need religion or spirituality in order to do this. I will even go so far as to suggest that these illusions and delusion that many people have are limiters preventing them from living a natural life.

 

Scientific fact: The Earth is almost completely round. It cannot be perfectly round because of the gravity effects of the moon and the sun. The Earth used to be flat and it was the center of the universe. It would still be flat if religion had its way.

[Marblehead]

There is just as much reason for life to exist than there is for it to not.

 

Many teachers warn that with advanced meditation practices, there is a risk to fall into nihilism.

Good. I get to agree with you here. We shouldn't take life too seriously.

[Apech]

@Marblehead

 

So tempting to get into the 'when is a tree not a tree' discussion ... but I am holding myself back.

 

.... no I am ...

[GrandmasterP]

Well, come on back and maybe if there are enough of us we can get Sean to create an Atheist's sub-forum. Hehehe.

Well, come on back and maybe if there are enough of us we can get Sean to create an Atheist's sub-forum. Hehehe.

 

I simply do not believe that such a thing as an atheists forum could ever truly exist.

[GrandmasterP]

How are some born with them?

How are some born with them?

 

Just unlucky I guess.

[GrandmasterP]

A tree is not a tree when it is a New Zealand Palm (That's a fern).

HTH

[GrandmasterP]

You Sir, are at the same place on your path (in your life) that Albert Camus was when he began formulating his theory of the absurdity of human life. (Yes, he concludes that life is still worth living.)

................................................

I love that last line in Camus 'The Outsider'....

 

"I surrendered myself to the sublime indifference of the universe"