Taoism and education

[samwardell]

Have been away from this forum for a month or so; have missed it. I’m a teacher and the term started, my teaching hours have doubled this year; more significantly I am getting married which takes a whole further chunk of my time; all work and no play etc… I say this as I feel I owe an apology to those who continued to make thoughtful and big-hearted contributions to the thread I started and then abandoned in the Chuang-tzu sub-forum.

 

I want to ask some advice for about education from a Taoist perspective.

 

I have many and varied students; some are hard workers, some are bright, a few are both, more are neither. Some love my classes, others do not. The mantra of any teacher is that we praise effort above all else. Yet, of late, I am worried. Education has become about end results, at the end of the year my students take their A-levels, some anonymous person with a red pen takes their exam scripts and assigns a grade. If they are good my students get to go to the university of their choice, off to a new set of aims.

 

I asked one of my classes (17 year olds) the other day (we are studying Aristotles’ Ethics) what they thought the goal of life was. All of them gave essentially the same response: that it was important to have personal goals and be fulfilled. I was mildly appalled at the paucity of language and ideas, it is sad that when coming to the end of their formal education their views should be so homogeneous and ill-expressed. Mostly though I was upset at the fact that not one of them had questioned the premise of the task, it was obvious to them that life was about goals. And why shouldn't they think so, I as their teacher – driving them haphazardly towards their A-levels, was complicit in this. At 17 these children saw life as goal-orientated; they see the grades not the subject as what is important. I have helped ruin these children. I am not alone in my guilt, the school as a whole mandates this view, as do their hopeful and proud parents.

 

I know that most, if not all, my students will go on to lives of attainment, where words like ‘success’ and ‘failure’ will determine them. I hear staff and parents talk to kids as young as 15 about how hard it will be to find a job if they don't get their A* in maths. I have mothers of even younger children asking me how this or that will affect their future careers in medicine. I am asked to weigh up whether a degree in History of Art at a top university is more of less likely to lead to a job than Business studies at a lesser one. Some days my job includes telling children with real talents outside of the academic that they have to put them on hold to ensure they get their grades in their ‘proper’ subjects.

 

I want instead to teach these children how to wander off beyond these stupid concerns. I want to teach them the value of emptiness. I want to tell them that they should not be rushing towards awards and grades, but learn to sit quietly. I have no idea how to even begin doing this; I’m even beginning to doubt that it is possible within the confines of the modern educational system. I feel lost.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

Edited October 16, 2012 by samwardell

[XieJia]

Hi Sam,

 

 

My opinion is that one of the thing that needs addressing is the idea in which worldly/success/money/achievement brings happiness.

Not that I meant that they don't but I do think that happiness can also be found in different things.

 

Perhaps a field trip?

Or a philosophical debate about Happiness or Success?

 

Or something like for them to understand how much of these ideologies are actually theirs?

Other than things implanted by the media or the society at large.

 

My 2 cents,

Goodluck on your quest

 

edited: maybe you could look to Confucius' thinking, I think will be easier for the lads to understand in the context of working/living as oppose to value of emptiness and sitting quietly.

Edited October 16, 2012 by XieJia

[ChiDragon]

I want instead to teach these children how to wander off beyond these stupid concerns. I want to teach them the value of emptiness. I want to tell them that they should not be rushing towards awards and grades, but learn to sit quietly. I have no idea how to even begin doing this; I’m even beginning to doubt that it is possible within the confines of the modern educational system. I feel lost.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

 

You are right about feeling lost. Nowadays, the kids are living in a world of rock n' roll which are too young to be learning about "emptiness" and sitting quietly. Emptiness is easier to be comprehended are those who are more mature and went through a series of failure and depression.

[Stosh]

If I remember correctly

In 'The hero with a thousand faces' there is a photo of a statue of Kali ,

I believe ,

and the meaning of the piece is told by the posture-composition

which is 'Dont worry , with understanding and dispassion a way will be found'

 

If you get too wrapped up in all the individuals of the multitude they will draw you into

confusion as well,, my advice is that it is just something you will have to accept , in large part,

that it is Ok if they are wrong or confused or narrow minded or unhappy.

So that when you have an opportunity to make a real difference in this regard

You won't be all screwed up yourself.

Stosh

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.aarweb.org/publications/Online_Publications/Curriculum_Guidelines/AARK-12CurriculumGuidelines.pdf

 

HTH

[Aetherous]

I want instead to teach these children how to wander off beyond these stupid concerns. I want to teach them the value of emptiness. I want to tell them that they should not be rushing towards awards and grades, but learn to sit quietly. I have no idea how to even begin doing this; I’m even beginning to doubt that it is possible within the confines of the modern educational system. I feel lost.

 

I view grades, achievement and all that, as essential. I wish I was forced to study throughout middle and high school...because that would have shaped my life in a better way, so I could have done something more useful in college (like become a doctor). Instead, I did sports medicine...which was still challenging, but I'm going to start out with a 30k salary instead of 100k+ or something. I also wasted a lot of time not meeting requirements of certain classes, so college took longer and raised my student loans.

 

A good education is important. Equally as important as being able to sit quietly, being able to think for yourself, etc.

 

If I were you, I'd simply spend some time talking about these things, maybe having a few minutes of quiet sitting before or after each class. It will make you memorable as a teacher, and actually I think it will help improve their grades.

[zanshin]

I think already too much quiet sitting in modern education. Gym classes and recess time getting cut, sports are all about achievement too instead of just having fun. Nature is an occasional field trip. The irony is a lot of innovation and fabulous creative thinking can come out of being silly and having fun, but with everything so systematic and media fills up free time, it's become all about getting to elusive goals and we don't know how to enjoy the ride.

[GrandmasterP]

You would not believe the BS paperwork involved in taking a class of English schoolkids out on a field trip.

Once you do manage to get the indolent little ingrates outside it's only a matter of minutes before one of em has an asthma attack or somebody falls into a puddle.

[Birch]

I really appreciate a teacher asking themselves this question. I wonder how many do?

I agree with much of what you've said. My take is that there are pieces of paper needed to get other pieces of paper that open doors in specific areas. The teacher helps the students go the shortest route to get these pieces of paper. More like a 'coach' if you like.

 

I guess I'd be worried that anything I said along the lines of 'question your ideas' might get the kids thrown off track for the paper. Hopefully there are other people in their lives (or authors, artists, businesspeople, engineers, doctors, musicians, taoists;-)) who can get them into 'critical thinking'.

 

I did notice that once I'd made it to university, the 'question the question' trick pretty consistently got me higher scores than if I'd just answered the question so I used it as a staple a bit automatically. But these A-level tests are standardized, with scoring guidelines that may or may not score well on that so I have no idea if that's a dumb suggestion to make or not.

[Practitioner]

I think that you yourself my friend have found yourself in a peculiar conundrum.

 

Have you ever seen the movie Dead Poet's Society? It is very much the essence of the situation you yourself are in. It sums everything up in a nutshell.. being that you are very much in a position to be like the teacher in the movie Robin Williams. If you watch the movie you will understand everything,

 

The point is, you cannot take any stand whatsoever and hit both birds with one stone. . If you teach these kids to walk to their own drummers, you will have ingrained in them something that the society around them ultimately will not desire, and will blame upon you much like Socrates for "corrupting the youth". You will become the scapegoat for any and all nonexpected behaviour. Society especially towards young people is all about conformity to expectations.. to "behave", to "prescribe" to any form of philosophy that is being handed down. To encourage the youth to go beyond the borders prescribed by society is to "corrupt" them. You must either teach them to live in an inquisitive, expanded awareness (and face the possible wrath of fellow faculty and disgruntled parents), or teach them to obey, to conform, to live in a state of perpetual malcontent always chasing after the next "achievement", and small-mindedness.

 

To take the middle path is undoubtedly the path of mediocrity. To try and do it both ways at the same time will be akin to trying to make an omelet out of an egg that's already been on the pan - you get neither and a result that does not satisfy either criteria.

 

You can teach them to fly (and risk the ire of society, especially parents, for influencing the youth), as well as having to deal with the results of dodos thinking that someday they will be eagles, or you can just treat them all like chickens, and have everyone around you satisfied with the result, with the sad knowledge that some of them, with the right push, could have become eagles.

 

Question is, which result would you rather choose?

[Birch]

It's funny, I thought of that exact movie (Dead Poets' Society) when reading your post. If I remember, it didn't turn out so well for several of the characters in the movie, including the teacher.

The other thing that came to mind was more of a question about why you might think (or not think) you need or want to do anything to change these kids' ideas. Maybe you're the right person in the wrong role?

 

I thought Practitioner's post was very insightful.

[PLB]

Others have said better than I could about the line between replicating conformity and encouraging something else. So I thought it might be helpful to point toward the idea of empire in Taoist literature. I am in the midst of reading a book suggested to this site here: http://thetaobums.co...-and-ping-fa/

Mr Jones makes a strong argument that the Art of War is actually about not having war. I had teachers who got me thinking about how the contours of conflict shaped the world I lived in. It would be very much in the Taoist tradition to continue that thinking.

Edited October 18, 2012 by PLB

[Protector]

In high school I had a few types of teachers

One was the insanely boring type, the computers and Endglish teachers were interesting people. I bet if I met them outside of school they would be very interesting, especially the English teacher who traveled all over the place. But they had the dullest way of speaking possible. I would literally walk into a class fully awake and fall asleep as they start talking.

Another type was friendly type. They were mostly English teachers and they were kinda invisible and didn't leave an impression at all. Back in Belarus every teacher would insane and only the homeroom would have a nice teacher.

The nice types would sometimes be the types to have ideas and big plans that the class had to follow. But giving direct orders like that doesn't leave a good impression on the teacher so don't make big plans for change.

 

One type of a teacher that left a huge impression on me was actually the crazy angry type. I remember back in Belarus if you were acting up, some of them would have the guts to lift you up and throw you out of the room. The Russian teacher was straight up making fun of me I remember. Belarusian teacher had unreasonable demands and actually, a lot of classes were like that. When I moved and started the high school I felt like every teacher was a wimp and didn't want to challenge anyone. Turns out you can't literally throw kids out of the room in here.

 

I say, be harsher and increase the workload. I liked to slack off and still kinda do but the increased workload kept me on edge and when I moved, I didn't feel like anyone cared. You can't just talk things out and make them understand, you need to connect emotionally and stress helps. I might not like you for a while but they will start asking questions when they don't understand.

Maybe it doesn't have to be exactly class work but something to talk about in class. Something that would make them feel stupid and make want to fight back

 

Edit Bonus question will be on the exam: How are diamonds made? It's a natural process, very wu wei like

Edited October 18, 2012 by Sinfest 2: Judgement Day

[Stosh]

^{The situation isnt really designed to give students the rich feedback and personal dynamic}

^{which might propel them. Most of the time its babysitting and fulfilling the roles.}

^{That feedback could be stern and demanding or ...motherly , is doesnt matter which}

^{the thing is that it needs to be enriching , rich , involving. Trying to teach that which}

^{seems not to be of value, other than to suck up to authority , undermines the situation.}

^{Parents have accepted the paradigm that its all supposed to be on the shoulders of}

^{a teacher monitoring thirty or so students at a time. Its not enough for the very bright or the}

^{less academic student .}

^Stosh

Edited October 18, 2012 by Stosh

[Aaron]

Have been away from this forum for a month or so; have missed it. I’m a teacher and the term started, my teaching hours have doubled this year; more significantly I am getting married which takes a whole further chunk of my time; all work and no play etc… I say this as I feel I owe an apology to those who continued to make thoughtful and big-hearted contributions to the thread I started and then abandoned in the Chuang-tzu sub-forum.

 

I want to ask some advice for about education from a Taoist perspective.

 

I have many and varied students; some are hard workers, some are bright, a few are both, more are neither. Some love my classes, others do not. The mantra of any teacher is that we praise effort above all else. Yet, of late, I am worried. Education has become about end results, at the end of the year my students take their A-levels, some anonymous person with a red pen takes their exam scripts and assigns a grade. If they are good my students get to go to the university of their choice, off to a new set of aims.

 

I asked one of my classes (17 year olds) the other day (we are studying Aristotles’ Ethics) what they thought the goal of life was. All of them gave essentially the same response: that it was important to have personal goals and be fulfilled. I was mildly appalled at the paucity of language and ideas, it is sad that when coming to the end of their formal education their views should be so homogeneous and ill-expressed. Mostly though I was upset at the fact that not one of them had questioned the premise of the task, it was obvious to them that life was about goals. And why shouldn't they think so, I as their teacher – driving them haphazardly towards their A-levels, was complicit in this. At 17 these children saw life as goal-orientated; they see the grades not the subject as what is important. I have helped ruin these children. I am not alone in my guilt, the school as a whole mandates this view, as do their hopeful and proud parents.

 

I know that most, if not all, my students will go on to lives of attainment, where words like ‘success’ and ‘failure’ will determine them. I hear staff and parents talk to kids as young as 15 about how hard it will be to find a job if they don't get their A* in maths. I have mothers of even younger children asking me how this or that will affect their future careers in medicine. I am asked to weigh up whether a degree in History of Art at a top university is more of less likely to lead to a job than Business studies at a lesser one. Some days my job includes telling children with real talents outside of the academic that they have to put them on hold to ensure they get their grades in their ‘proper’ subjects.

 

I want instead to teach these children how to wander off beyond these stupid concerns. I want to teach them the value of emptiness. I want to tell them that they should not be rushing towards awards and grades, but learn to sit quietly. I have no idea how to even begin doing this; I’m even beginning to doubt that it is possible within the confines of the modern educational system. I feel lost.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

 

Hello Sam,

 

I am working towards getting my certification to teach middle school or high school English. What I've found studying education is that it's not so much to teach children how to think for themselves, but rather to teach them what they should be thinking. Aristotle's 'Ethics' is an excellent example, because it's actually advocating this goal orientated way of thinking. In short we need kids to grow up and be well-behaved conformists that wont question capitalism or whether or not they're actually living in a democracy, or instead a republic. School indoctrinates more often than not, rather than educates.

 

You're right to feel this way, my suggestion, encourage your students to question what's being taught. Teach them to recognize what other people believe the right answer is, but make sure they express it in their own words and can actually support that assumption. Don't accept blind quotations and citations from your students, require them to actually think about what's going on and defend their arguments. Make sure that they understand that just because someone says something is right, doesn't make it so.

 

I feel for you, I really do. I am struggling with many of the same doubts you are having. I will still teach, because I want to be one of the teachers that encourages kids to think for themselves. I hope things work out for you. Don't give up, what you're doing is beneficial to your students. Remember they don't need emptiness, so much as someone who is willing to be that candle in the darkness.

 

Aaron

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aaron

[Aaron]

You would not believe the BS paperwork involved in taking a class of English schoolkids out on a field trip.

Once you do manage to get the indolent little ingrates outside it's only a matter of minutes before one of em has an asthma attack or somebody falls into a puddle.

 

But isn't worth it if just one of those 'indolent' little ingrates appreciates what you've done for them. One of my fondest school memories was when I was in fourth grade and my class went on a field trip to a marsh. While walking along the trail I happened upon a frog sitting by the river. I watched it for just a moment before the noise from the other kids scared it away. For lunch we ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and celery sticks with cream cheese and olives. The ice had melted in the cooler so the little cartons of milk were warm. It was such a nice break from the classroom. Kids rarely express their appreciation, but I'm sure at least one of those rugamuts did appreciate the effort.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Hehehe... indolent... it's nice to see someone using the English language.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Aaron

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[GrandmasterP]

Schools aren't the best places to push any particular belief system unless they are faith schools then it is rather expected that the teachers promote that particular faith.

There's a good Religious Education strand on the Times Ed Supplement staff room site

Www.tes.co.uk

 

[Aaron]

Schools aren't the best places to push any particular belief system unless they are faith schools then it is rather expected that the teachers promote that particular faith.

There's a good Religious Education strand on the Times Ed Supplement staff room site

Www.tes.co.uk

 

I agree. It's not a teacher's place to preach or convert their students. I wasn't advocating that, rather I was advocating teaching critical analysis.

 

Aaron

[GrandmasterP]

That's always the dream mate.

If they engage with critical reflection my job is done. Amazing how many resist it though and all my students are graduates before they come to us to train to teach.

Many want a paint by numbers easy path unfortunately and, to some extent; our universities have been offering those sorts of routes for a good many years now.

If someone can't or won't make the effort to think critically the they can't very well pass on a skill they don't have to their own students later on. Government education policy in the west of late has focused on turning out compliant technicians as opposed to critical thinkers. Scary in a way but one does what one can.