Mindfulness and thoughts. Are we supposed to stop our thoughts?

[dc9]

I seem to be reading conflicting ideas on this. During mindfulness meditation where we focus on the breath, we are not supposed to dwell on our thoughts. Obviously we can't control when thoughts pop up, but we are supposed to go right back to being mindful of our breath. With the goal being to reach a state of discipline and concentration where the breath is all that we are aware of, as we sink into a state of thoughtlessness and oneness...

 

So how does this apply to mindfulness in everyday life? I've noticed it's definitely beneficial to do mindfulness practices in life when i'm feeling very negative emotions. I am going through a train of thought that's just making me so angry and sad, but when I stop those thoughts and try to maintain mindfulness on my emotions and breath, I begin to feel much better.

 

Now, is the goal to be in that mindful state permanently? Because in order to be in that state, i'll basically be in a state of thoughtlessness. How are you supposed to get through life without thinking about things? How are insights and revelations supposed to pop up without analyzing things and thinking things through in your head?

 

It works out great as a coping mechanism, but should it be a way of life? That's certainly what monks try to accomplish, but i question their philosophy.

[Fū Yue]

Our minds process things far faster than the simple thoughts that tend to arise in our awareness pop up. By the time you've caught hold of one thought, 3 billion other neurons have already started chattering away about life, the weather, that one beautiful woman's breasts, and how it all means the letter Y.

 

The mind processes faster and more efficiently in silence, because when we reach for thoughts we slow it down - it has to convert what is essentially an alien and unspeakable knowing into the english language, then it has to somehow get it across to 'you' in a way that makes sense.

[thetaoiseasy]

when you can't control your emotions, use a intellectual approach. when you are stuck in your thoughts, use a spiritual approach which is broad and encompassing. The only thing that contain everything in the world is emptiness and silence. each moment has a different application, and any separation I made there is just artificial. perhaps you can unify your emotions, intellect, and spirit. that would be a feat!

Edited October 18, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[doc benway]

I seem to be reading conflicting ideas on this. During mindfulness meditation where we focus on the breath, we are not supposed to dwell on our thoughts. Obviously we can't control when thoughts pop up, but we are supposed to go right back to being mindful of our breath. With the goal being to reach a state of discipline and concentration where the breath is all that we are aware of, as we sink into a state of thoughtlessness and oneness...

 

So how does this apply to mindfulness in everyday life? I've noticed it's definitely beneficial to do mindfulness practices in life when i'm feeling very negative emotions. I am going through a train of thought that's just making me so angry and sad, but when I stop those thoughts and try to maintain mindfulness on my emotions and breath, I begin to feel much better.

 

Now, is the goal to be in that mindful state permanently? Because in order to be in that state, i'll basically be in a state of thoughtlessness. How are you supposed to get through life without thinking about things? How are insights and revelations supposed to pop up without analyzing things and thinking things through in your head?

 

It works out great as a coping mechanism, but should it be a way of life? That's certainly what monks try to accomplish, but i question their philosophy.

Lot's of "right" answers to these good questions.

Here are some thoughts -

First and foremost - keep applying the practice and see for yourself. See what comes up. See how effective you are at remaining mindful through your waking life. All the answers will grow out of your practice with time and patience.

 

Other thoughts - mindfulness is not just about doing away with negative feelings. If you're not careful, this sort of practice can suppress those feelings and they will linger and grow stronger with time in the sub-conscious and have negative consequences. Being mindful also means to stay with the negative feelings, not necessarily dwelling on the thoughts or adding to them, but allowing yourself to fully experience what is there while it is there. And allowing it to pass in it's time. It's also good to practice mindfulness with positive feelings and good experiences.

 

You can practice for a very long time and I'm pretty sure you won't achieve a state of continuous thoughtlessness. Thoughts are a normal part of the human condition. We need and benefit from our gift of thought. We also suffer from it's self-absorption. The practice is more one of non-attachment to the thoughts rather than erasure or suppression.

 

With respect to insights and revelations, you will most likely find that those are NOT the product of the thinking mind. Insights and revelations are "quantum" phenomena (I hate that word used outside of the scientific arena but it does capture the spirit of what I'm trying to say here) that occur to the tranquil mind when it is not burdened with ruminating over territory that is already known. These are the AHA experiences and usually occur once you stop focusing on a problem and allow the mind to let go.

[dc9]

I was hoping someone would bring up how i shouldn't do away with my negative emotions. Because that's what i feel like i'm doing, and it feels wrong. But the thing is, when i stop my thoughts, the feelings dissipate relatively quickly. It's a natural occurance. And they only come back once my thoughts return and my mindfulness slips.

 

I do have a problem of only being mindful or being motivated to meditate when i am going through a really rough spot. When things are going good, i drift away into my thoughts and just cruise through life.

 

I don't quite understand the logic of what you guys are saying that a calm mind leads to insights. Unless you mean that meditation calms the mind so that my thoughts are clearer? I could completely relate to that as it's happened to me several times. But to have revelations and insights pop up without any thoughts at all? What are insights, if not new thoughts that are useful for my life?

[doc benway]

Insights and revelations are thoughts, ideas, images but can also be experiences at a non-verbal, non-intellectual level.

It's just that they tend to occur de novo, rather than as a rational progression of the thinking mind.

 

Ever try to think of something elusive?

The more you try, the more it escapes you?

And then when your mind is distracted from the effort, suddenly it's there...

That's sort of what I was suggesting.

[Stosh]

Insights and revelations are thoughts, ideas, images but can also be experiences at a non-verbal, non-intellectual level.

It's just that they tend to occur de novo, rather than as a rational progression of the thinking mind.

 

Ever try to think of something elusive?

The more you try, the more it escapes you?

And then when your mind is distracted from the effort, suddenly it's there...

That's sort of what I was suggesting.

 

I believe I know WHAT you are describing

but I dont know , to what end it goes

always do this ?

do this as maintenance ?

its a stage in a progression ?

what do you think is to be gotten out of it ?

 

Stosh

Edited October 18, 2012 by Stosh

[forestofclarity]

It depends on what you are practicing.

 

In Buddhist practice, there are many answers depending on which system you are working with. There is light concentration, narrow concentration, broad concentration. It all depends on what tradition you work with.

 

I advise setting aside, as much as possible, expectations about what should arise and let what arises arise.

[Aaron]

Hello DC9,

 

You shouldn't try and avoid your negative thoughts or feelings. Does that make you feel better? The fact of the matter is that you're misunderstanding the purpose of empty mind meditation. It's intention is to make you more aware of how your mind works and to still your mind so you can become more aware of what's happening in the world around you. When it comes to negative emotions you don't use empty mind meditation or techniques to avoid them, rather you use a different method of meditation, one I refer to as Mindful Meditation. Mindful meditation is when you take one thought and trace it back to its source to find the cause of that thought. It's not easy to do unless you've accomplished empty mind meditation to a certain degree, but it can yield very useful information regarding the state of your negative feelings.

 

So the point here is address your emotions, don't try and be rid of them. Meditation is not about becoming a mindless automaton, but rather understanding your role within the universe on a deeper level.

 

Here are some good techniques for dealing with negative emotions...

 

Determine why you are feeling the emotion.

 

Ask yourself what you can do about the cause of the problem.

 

Do what you can to solve the problem, if you can't do anything about it, then what is the point in worrying about it?

 

If you are condemned to death, is it better to worry for the last hour of your life or just accept that you will die and make the best of the time you have left?

 

I hope that helps. If you need more instruction on Mindful Meditation, I would be happy to share. For more information regarding empty mind meditation, check out my personal practice thread, I have a guide there.

 

Aaron

Edited October 19, 2012 by Aaron

[doc benway]

I believe I know WHAT you are describing

but I dont know , to what end it goes

always do this ?

do this as maintenance ?

its a stage in a progression ?

what do you think is to be gotten out of it ?

 

Stosh

Good questions - I don't have many answers.

I do think that significant growth can come out of insight.

Our thought process generally occurs within the spectrum of what we already know or what we can reason or infer.

Memory, knowledge, and projection of that knowledge.

Insight and revelation offer something new, or at least it often seems that way.

Krishnamurti's writings get into this very deeply - well worth investigating.

[Birch]

I'd reckon if you're already doing this 'suppression of thoughts' outside any meditation practice, it's IMO/IME pretty likely that it could continue as part of meditation practice and that it gets taken (I won't say mistaken) for what meditation is.

Especially if you have been told (or understood) that meditation is about 'calmness' and 'stilling the mind'. So you might (quite naturally) go into meditation with that aim but use what you already know (quite naturally) to achieve it.

 

--2cts opinion--

[dc9]

Hello DC9,

 

You shouldn't try and avoid your negative thoughts or feelings. Does that make you feel better? The fact of the matter is that you're misunderstanding the purpose of empty mind meditation. It's intention is to make you more aware of how your mind works and to still your mind so you can become more aware of what's happening in the world around you. When it comes to negative emotions you don't use empty mind meditation or techniques to avoid them, rather you use a different method of meditation, one I refer to as Mindful Meditation. Mindful meditation is when you take one thought and trace it back to its source to find the cause of that thought. It's not easy to do unless you've accomplished empty mind meditation to a certain degree, but it can yield very useful information regarding the state of your negative feelings.

 

So the point here is address your emotions, don't try and be rid of them. Meditation is not about becoming a mindless automaton, but rather understanding your role within the universe on a deeper level.

 

Here are some good techniques for dealing with negative emotions...

 

Determine why you are feeling the emotion.

 

Ask yourself what you can do about the cause of the problem.

 

Do what you can to solve the problem, if you can't do anything about it, then what is the point in worrying about it?

 

If you are condemned to death, is it better to worry for the last hour of your life or just accept that you will die and make the best of the time you have left?

 

I hope that helps. If you need more instruction on Mindful Meditation, I would be happy to share. For more information regarding empty mind meditation, check out my personal practice thread, I have a guide there.

 

Aaron

 

ok, well, all those things you're describing requires thinking. So to clarify, there's not any actual mind emptying going on here, right? I am actively thinking, but i am also passively observing those thoughts. I'm not redirecting my awareness back to my breath. I find that when i redirect my focus to my breath, thoughtlessness is inevitable. It interrupts my train of thought and i'm just unable to have thoughts.

 

I'd reckon if you're already doing this 'suppression of thoughts' outside any meditation practice, it's IMO/IME pretty likely that it could continue as part of meditation practice and that it gets taken (I won't say mistaken) for what meditation is.

Especially if you have been told (or understood) that meditation is about 'calmness' and 'stilling the mind'. So you might (quite naturally) go into meditation with that aim but use what you already know (quite naturally) to achieve it.

 

--2cts opinion--

 

so what exactly are you saying? is this a wrong way to meditate?

 

and ill say again that im not trying to suppress my thoughts.. it's just when i focus on my breath or bodily sensations, what else is going to happen? i thought this is what happens to everyone. so really, what happens to other people's thoughts when they practice breath mindfulness meditation?

[Ninjafro]

As we are different people, I can't give you an answer; however, I find in life and in meditation that the key to stillness lies in letting things be. When a thought arises, I let it pass. I don't try to ignore it; I observe it as it forms, observe it as it plays out, and observe it as it dissipates. The same applies to life. When I face an emotionally taxing time in my life, I let it happen. I observe it; I let it pass.

 

For me, at least, when I realize that I can't force a thought, emotion, or problem to go away, I just merely observe it until it passes, and once I let it pass, I'm then able to reach equilibrium.

[Jetsun]

In my experience meditation isn't about about calmness or stilling the mind, it is about being with whatever you experience without being overly attached or aversive to what is going on. Whatever arises is good, whether it is an angry rage to kill someone or pure peace, its all good. In daily life this just translates as to just be with whatever you are experiencing as much as possible, don't go chasing peace or anything as this can just be more aversion.

 

 

 

 

[XieJia]

I am going through a train of thought that's just making me so angry and sad.

 

Now, is the goal to be in that mindful state permanently? Because in order to be in that state, i'll basically be in a state of thoughtlessness. How are you supposed to get through life without thinking about things? How are insights and revelations supposed to pop up without analyzing things and thinking things through in your head?

 

Hi dc9,

 

how about letting thoughts comes and goes with their accord?

In minding the breath, you could be thinking?

In thinking, are you breathing?

 

thoughts like like breathing, it comes and goes.

 

one is aware when one is thinking,

one is aware when one is not thinking.

 

You recognizing that you are going through the train of thoughts, this is already cultivating mindfulness.

this train of thought being the cause, it brings forth other feelings or emotions as effects.

 

the realizations and insights are popping up, don't worry about that.

the mind might just frame it in this way as bringing up "Questions"

before you actually realize that these insights are actually "Both question and the answer"

 

you need not worry about going through life in the state of thoughtlessness or wanting to be mindful permanently.

The moment to be mindful is what is right infront of you.

And as you need to think in anytime in the future, the "Now" then will automatically brings up the thought that you need accordingly.

Edited October 19, 2012 by XieJia

[de_paradise]

I'm with dc9 on this one. Too conflicting to be mindful of one single thing. So I practise this type of focus during meditation only, maybe sometimes walking around nature. The rest of the time, I use my mind and imagination and multitask. The higher state of an enlightened mind, say a Buddha, there is no difference between being mindful and multitasking and thinking. But the difference between us and Buddha is he has an evolved consciousness, his energy pathways are cleared, he has not garbage and impurities in his body, things just pop into his mind and it feels like bliss, it comes and goes at a nice speed. There is no way we can pretend to be mindful like Buddha if we have junked up energy pathways, full of toxins, and un-transformed consciousness. Its wishful thinking to even bother. Yet at the same time, it is a cultivation method, and I guess some people find it useful, and maybe once in a while find themselves in a better state. Its a good method. The problem, or confusion comes in when people teach this method, and it somehow becomes more than an method, they get convinced that you have to keep doing it all day or you cant be enlightened. Of course its not possible to keep it going while you do your normal day stuff.

 

Some people and teachers just like to copy the books they read, so they can be perceived as wise, so they tell people to be mindful. They can even say, you are not being mindful here here and here. But how mindful can it be to pretend to be mindful? Not very. They dont see any contradiction in learning something from a book and teaching it to others, even though neither of them have the consciousness of what the Diamond Sutra is speaking about.

Edited October 19, 2012 by de_paradise

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[Birch]

"so what exactly are you saying? is this a wrong way to meditate?

 

and ill say again that im not trying to suppress my thoughts.. it's just when i focus on my breath or bodily sensations, what else is going to happen? i thought this is what happens to everyone. so really, what happens to other people's thoughts when they practice breath mindfulness meditation? "

 

I can tell you about my own experience in meditation, that I used focus on the breath or body to avoid thoughts. A sort of a back and forth of attention. Thought arises, reaction to thought (in my case turning away because I thought that was what I was supposed to do), return to breath or body. It does happen very fast. I found this was wrong for me.

[GrandmasterP]

Maybe that's why there are so many methods for meditating because what suits one doesn't suit another. Cultivating QiGong works for me as the focus on a moving meditation calm my monkey mind. Just sitting doesn't work nearly as well for me but others swear by it. Best to try a few ways to see what suits one best I guess.

[Aaron]

ok, well, all those things you're describing requires thinking. So to clarify, there's not any actual mind emptying going on here, right? I am actively thinking, but i am also passively observing those thoughts. I'm not redirecting my awareness back to my breath. I find that when i redirect my focus to my breath, thoughtlessness is inevitable. It interrupts my train of thought and i'm just unable to have thoughts.

 

 

 

so what exactly are you saying? is this a wrong way to meditate?

 

and ill say again that im not trying to suppress my thoughts.. it's just when i focus on my breath or bodily sensations, what else is going to happen? i thought this is what happens to everyone. so really, what happens to other people's thoughts when they practice breath mindfulness meditation?

 

In the beginning you're lucky to find complete silence one to two minutes a month. Awareness without thought (consciousness) is impossible, so what I am talking about isn't awareness, but stilling or silencing your mind. I'm not sure where you got the idea that you could be aware and not actually think. I'm not sure how someone can even walk around and be able to do that.

 

Again, for a better explanation of what Empty Mind meditation actually is, read my guide in my personal practice thread. It will help you to understand the misconceptions about this form of meditation, as well as how I have practiced it for over 20 years now.

 

Aaron

[Simple_Jack]

I seem to be reading conflicting ideas on this. During mindfulness meditation where we focus on the breath, we are not supposed to dwell on our thoughts. Obviously we can't control when thoughts pop up, but we are supposed to go right back to being mindful of our breath. With the goal being to reach a state of discipline and concentration where the breath is all that we are aware of, as we sink into a state of thoughtlessness and oneness...

 

So how does this apply to mindfulness in everyday life? I've noticed it's definitely beneficial to do mindfulness practices in life when i'm feeling very negative emotions. I am going through a train of thought that's just making me so angry and sad, but when I stop those thoughts and try to maintain mindfulness on my emotions and breath, I begin to feel much better.

 

Now, is the goal to be in that mindful state permanently? Because in order to be in that state, i'll basically be in a state of thoughtlessness. How are you supposed to get through life without thinking about things? How are insights and revelations supposed to pop up without analyzing things and thinking things through in your head?

 

It works out great as a coping mechanism, but should it be a way of life? That's certainly what monks try to accomplish, but i question their philosophy.

 

Seeing as how you're using parlance attributed to Buddhism, I'm assuming you want to know where the role of sati (or "mindfulness") plays when cultivating jhana and insight (vipassana)...Unless you're just using the term in the general way that the "Mcmindfulness" crowd uses it: Then disregard this post.

 

First, you have to determine what it is you're trying to accomplish in any one particular sitting period (as there are several ways to go about this.) To go about this, you to have to understand the role of concentration when doing insight practice and vice versa.

 

Now to understand it in the context of Buddhism, what does this mean? What is it you are trying to be mindful of? How is one to engage in being mindful??? This is determined by what you're focusing on in each session or what your needs are in that session.

 

Specifically regarding vipassana, the real purpose is to directly cognize the 3 characteristics (anatta, anicca, dukkha...You should look this up,) by being mindful of each passing phenomenal moment. For instance, In the post-meditative period, it will be this present moment of sights, sounds, tastes, smells, touch/sensations, and thoughts.

 

Anyways, I think it will be immensely more benificial for you to take a look at or even ask questions on a forum called www.dharmaoverground.org. That site is filled with both noobs and OG's alike (with everything in between.) You will find plenty of threads by both the (very) experienced and novice alike that will assist in all your inquiries.

 

Also look into "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha: An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book" by Daniel Ingram. This is a good manual to get started with (it's available online for free.) Another helpful site to look into is called "measurelessmind" http://measurelessmind.ca/. It's a great resource for understanding the Buddhas teachings all nicely formatted in an easy to navigate website (no having to dig around on accesstoinsight.org for specific suttas.)

[Simple_Jack]

Some very helpful articles from dharoverground.org. Who's the guy who wrote them? Just some average Joe who applied the Buddhas teachings at age 48 and who really started to make progress.

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1191517

 

 

How I Came to Practice Jhana

 

I didn't begin to look into absorption practice as it is explained in Buddhist literature until I was twenty years into my meditative practice. At the time, being ignorant of it, I couldn't have told you what the difference was between samadhi and jhana. All I knew was that from the descriptions I had read about them, they both sounded very similar. What I eventually learned through the experience of a mature practice is that there is a subtle difference which characterizes each of these two seemingly mysterious and foreign words.

 

Though I came to the practice of meditative absorption not totally certain about what it was or whether I could ever achieve it, I did have a kind of explorer's curiosity and a "throw caution to the wind" attitude which helped to overcome any negative thoughts or doubts I might have somehow secretly harbored in the back of my mind. With nothing to lose but time, diving headlong into the practice seemed the only reasonable and practical thing to do if I wanted to learn anything about the practice of absorption. This is simply to say that if I can do it, then anyone can do it. I'm not all that much smarter than anyone else. The only skill anyone needs is to be able to recognize, differentiate, and identify subtle mental movement. To know it when you see it, and not to deny it or downplay it. It is that mental movement, sometimes subtle and sometimes gross, that needs to be seen and brought to our awareness.

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1286373

 

The Practical Aspects of Establishing Mindfulness — Part One

 

What Is Mindfulness?

 

"Of all the instruction passed on to us by Siddhattha Gotama recorded in the Pali suttas that is aimed at diminishing our sense of suffering and dissatisfaction with life, if there were one piece of advice he could give and emphasize as being the fundamental key in this process, there is no doubt in my mind that it would entail the advice to develop sati. As is recorded in the Samyutta Nikaya (SN 46.53; v 115) he said, "But sati (mindfulness), bhikkhus, I say, is always useful." And from the Anguttara Nikaya (AN 8.83): "All things can be mastered by mindfulness." All of which begs the question: what does it mean to be mindful? In what way, Gotama, do you mean: "Be mindful!"

 

Having a clear understanding of the definition of this term is essential if one is to correctly apprehend the enormous gravity of what Gotama was pointing at. Where the history of sati's translation in the English language is concerned, it has been suggested by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, among others, that the British scholar who coined the term "mindfulness" to translate the word sati "was probably influenced by the Anglican prayer to be ever mindful of the needs of others — in other words, to always keep their needs in mind. But even though the word 'mindful' was probably drawn from a Christian context, the Buddha himself defined sati as the ability to remember, illustrating its function in meditation practice with the four satipatthanas, or establishings of mindfulness."

 

In terms of "being mindful of the breath" during anapanasati meditation, sati can be defined using the very simple concept of "keeping the breath in mind" as one is meditating. Which simply means being aware of the present moment actuality of the breath on in-breathing and on out-breathing. Yet when we look at the etymological derivation of the Pali word "sati" we find, as Ven. Thanissaro has suggested, that sati is related to the verb sarati which means "to remember" or "to recall or recollect."

 

And while sati does have this connotation with regard to memory, there is evidence in the suttas to suggest that it also has to do with "that which facilitates and enables memory." As Ven. Analayo has written, "What this definition of sati points to is that, if sati is present, memory will be able to function well. Understanding sati in this way facilitates relating it to the context of satipatthana, where it is not concerned with recalling past events, but functions as awareness of the present moment. In the context of satipatthana meditation, it is due to the presence of sati that one is able to remember what is otherwise only too easily forgotten: the present moment.

 

"Sati as present moment awareness is similarly reflected in the presentation of the Patisambhidamagga and the Visuddhimagga, according to which the characteristic quality of sati is 'presence' (upatthana), whether as a faculty (indriya), as an awakening factor (bojjhanga), as a factor of the noble eightfold path, or at the moment of realization."

 

Therefore if mindfulness is present (upatthitasati) it can be understood to imply presence of mind, in as far as the direct opposite of this is absent mindedness (mutthasati). Having a presence of mind implies that, endowed with sati, one is wide awake in regard to the present moment. Such presence of mind with regard to whatever one does or says will be clearly comprehended by the mind, and thereby more easily remembered later on.

 

From this brief examination of the way in which the word sati is used in the discourses, it becomes apparent that the breadth of its application carries a gravity of meaning that is vital to our comprehension if we are to correctly interpret the use of this word translated as "mindfulness." From this presentation, then, it seems reasonable to assume that sati combines both "present moment awareness" as well as "recollection," as in, for example, recollecting what the Buddha has taught. Although based on this nuance of what is recollected this could refer to almost anything that is relevant to the present moment circumstance which adds to one's knowledge in being able to act in a skillful manner."

 

The Practical Aspects of Establishing Mindfulness — Part Two

 

Mindfulness and The Path of Calmness and Insight

 

"In the early days of the spreading practice of the Buddhadhamma (i.e. during the period of time in which the Buddha lived and taught), often referred to as "early Buddhism," Siddhattha Gotama taught a two-pronged approach to the practice of meditation which, in its essence, can be summarized as: "Calm the mind and develop clear seeing." These two aspects of meditation contemplation are known as samatha (meaning "calm" or "tranquility") and vipassana (literally "clear seeing," but more often translated as "insight"). This system of teaching samatha and vipassana — the "and" here indicating that they were to be taught together as one simultaneous method of meditation training — worked very well throughout the Buddha's lifetime, producing countless ariyas (noble ones or followers of the Buddha's Dhamma) and arahats ("awakened ones" or "one who has awakened"), as Gotama wandered back and forth across the plains of northern India stopping here and there to deliver his discourses on the Dhamma."

 

Another fellow, who I think has a very helpful blog called Methods of Awakening; which deals with shamatha-vipasyana.

 

http://methodsofawakening.blogspot.co.uk/

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Attentiveness is a commonly used word and is something that forms the bare bones of our practice, regardless of which model we use. I intend to break the word down and provide a practical description of what attentiveness “is”, and how to improve practice through really understanding what it means to be attentive. This is just my take on it based on what works, and is working, for me; this may change as new information becomes available.

 

....The word “mindful” is an adjective meaning “attentive, aware, or careful (usually followed by of)” [4] or “conscious or aware of something “[5][6]. We’ve already looked at “attentive” and found that it’s synonymous with words like “mindful”, “heedful”, “aware” and “alert”, all of which represent the same process: To be attentive of something; to be paying attention; to be aware. It does not require any further analysis to demonstrate that mindfulness and attentiveness are simply labels for the same, naturally occurring ability to pay attention....

 

...Attentiveness is just a matter of noticing what’s happening right now, you’re not looking for anything or trying to do anything, you’re just noticing what’s already happening at this moment. It’s an active engagement in your immediate experience, an alertness, a preparedness to openly accept whatever arises without judgement. This attentiveness includes what’s going on” internally” - by which I mean: the general feelings observed, emotional states, thoughts that present themselves, particular narratives the mind reels off; mental phenomena in general - as well as what’s going on “externally” - by which I mean: physical sensations via the five sense doors: touch, sight, sound, taste, and smell. Attentiveness only ever happens right now, not in the future and not in the past, now. Not then. Only now. To be attentive or mindful is to be actively present; to be cognizant of what is happening at this moment in time...."

 

 

I hope these links are helpful for you.

[joeblast]

good posts simplejack. you definitely aint drinkin the purple drank

 

of an esoteric curiosity's nature, some of the material in Zen and the Brain are well reflected in the red text.

 

I was hoping someone would bring up how i shouldn't do away with my negative emotions. Because that's what i feel like i'm doing, and it feels wrong. But the thing is, when i stop my thoughts, the feelings dissipate relatively quickly. It's a natural occurance. And they only come back once my thoughts return and my mindfulness slips.

 

I do have a problem of only being mindful or being motivated to meditate when i am going through a really rough spot. When things are going good, i drift away into my thoughts and just cruise through life.

 

I don't quite understand the logic of what you guys are saying that a calm mind leads to insights. Unless you mean that meditation calms the mind so that my thoughts are clearer? I could completely relate to that as it's happened to me several times. But to have revelations and insights pop up without any thoughts at all? What are insights, if not new thoughts that are useful for my life?

there's a difference between "trying not to think of a certain thing" and "when a certain thought arises, it is not furthered." if a certain thoughtform is decided to be 'not-the-correct-view,' then by all means, when that thoughtform arises, end it and direct the awareness elsewhere, a more constructive and "more proper" thoughtform even, though it is still a thoughtform.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Mindfulness is not about stopping thoughts. Stopping thoughts is like breaking your own arm. Your brain is an awesome organ and you need thoughts to understand the physical world, just as you need fingers to grab things.

 

Mindfulness is about just being with whatever that is in your experience without tying it down or possessing it as "mine" "me" "my" habits underneath it. So that when you are stepping on earth, and the teaching says to be mindful, you should see the blissfulness of just that sensation itself. How wonderful it is when you have just let it be on its own without maligning it.

 

This goes for thoughts to. Thoughts can be incredibly beautiful! Think about all that Zen poetry. Surely someone with no-thought can't write poetry.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

Thoughts do not come from the mind.

 

They arise from within the brain, which is like a record-keeper.

 

Tis the mind that then decides to add energy to thoughts, creating momentum in the process which, in the less aware, begin to manifest and weave into stories, then shapes, then forms etc, and this is where delusion finds plenty of space to propagate.

 

Mindfulness is the practice to bring one's awareness, again and again, to seeing the truth of what mind is -- empty, yet completely utilizable (or cognizant).

 

In which ways its directed, only the mind can decide itself.

 

So, another way of seeing the practice of Mindfulness is the process of 'gentle coaxing to allow mind to see its own nature'. Its one effective way to regain mastery over mind.

 

Remember: The mind does not take harsh or forceful treatments from no one.

 

Mindfulness is the art of using softness to tame the 'wild horse'.