Question on karma

[skydog]

Psychic read me and said something about my past life three lives ago and my mother is doing to me what I did to her.

 

If pain is there whether you are enlightened or not.

 

Am I destined to feel this pain whether I get enlightened or not.

 

Why does my mum piss me off so easily.

[hydrogen]

Am I destined to feel this pain whether I get enlightened or not.

 

You have to stop the vicious karma cycle to be enlightened.

 

I don't think you need to go back to all your previous life to resolve the bad karma. Remember love conquers all.

[ShaolinDiva]

If the psychic was accurate (only about 70% of them are), then the role reversal is exactly going as planned for karma to be resolved. Its about perspective too as well and when you're young, the perspective is more narrow than widened as you get older. Things may get resolved slowly without you really realizing. love and compassion is the key...

[Stosh]

I dont think we have enough information about your relationship with your mum to

answer that question specifically better than you could, and you are stumped...

Maybe.

Stosh

[johndoe2012]

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Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[skydog]

thanks for the answers/healings, I will look into the yuen method, is there a way of using it/learning it low price, as i am on benefits and will have to wait till i get paid.

 

heres a drawing of karma inspired by peyote

 

 

Edited October 19, 2012 by sinansencer

[Protector]

GUH!!!!

 

 

 

[deci belle]

Information about mum is immaterial and irrelevant. Mum makes no sense~ if she did, you would have figured it out by now.

 

Am I destined to feel this pain whether I get enlightened or not.

 

 

Use the pain. See through it if it kills you. If you are lucky, you will pass through this fortunate irritation and exhaust your tiny self-concept in the process (that's a good thing).

 

The truth is, you have never had one life, much less three. All these are dreams. Even recurring lives and deaths are temporary alternations of endless cycles of creation.

 

Buddhas couldn't care less about it. Why? Because lives and deaths are equal. The intervals between are also equal. The lives and deaths you are going through now are no different than the past lives and deaths we all have gone through.

 

Passing through is transcending a cycle. Passing through (without italics) is being subject to a cycle. Right now you do not have a choice. All enlightenment would convince you of is that there is no escape. Since there is no escape, give yourself a little space. If you can garner a little autonomy, so much the better.

 

Often I am amazed to realize that in the final analysis, if given the choice, some people don't desire freedom at all.

 

If you want freedom, I recommend psychological detachment leading to nonpsychological openness.

 

You ought to be questioning karma itself; not its ramifications on your current ego-centered dream-state.

 

Enlightenment doesn't fix anything. Though everything resolves in the Unborn, nothing changes except your perspective.

 

 

 

ed note: fixed quote typo and change "nonpsychological stillness" to nonpsychological openness

Edited October 19, 2012 by deci belle

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[johndoe2012]

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Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[hydrogen]

Enlightenment doesn't fix anything. Though everything resolves in the Unborn, nothing changes except your perspective.

 

 

I suppose we have different definition of "enlightenment". There is a difference between "knowing the path" and "walking the path".

 

My idea of "englightenment" is "walking the path" while yours seems to be "knowing the path".

[GrandmasterP]

Your mum means well and she loves you Sinan.

Smile inwardly. All will appear very different in a few years time and that time will pass ever so quickly.

Karma is just karma, we've all got some; thing is how we deal with it not where it stems from.

[Aetherous]

Why does my mum piss me off so easily.

 

It's very common for moms to piss off their children. I don't know if they do it consciously so much...but when you're being challenged, it means that you're growing. Recognize that it's a fact of life...let the feelings wash over you rather than fighting them...stand your ground and don't be her doormat...leave the nest so that you let her know you're done growing. lol

[thelerner]

If the psychic was accurate (only about 70% of them are), then the role reversal is exactly going as planned

Can't help thinking this might be a little bit high. The advice might be what you need live peacefully, ie surrender to the situation.

If not..

It's very common for moms to piss off their children. I don't know if they do it consciously so much...but when you're being challenged, it means that you're growing. Recognize that it's a fact of life...let the feelings wash over you rather than fighting them...stand your ground and don't be her doormat...leave the nest so that you let her know you're done growing. lol

 

Whether or not there is someone 'up there' with a score card, imo the best use of karma is to see how our actions have affected the situation. What have you done, and are you doing that is responsible for the vicious cycle(s) with your Mom?

 

As kids get older the one way giving relationship between parent to child gets old. List the things she does for you, start with the things worth thousands ike giving you a place to stay, then work down to things hundreds etc., Then list what you give her, and/or what you do to make her happy.

[GrandmasterP]

You only get the one mum each time round so make the most of her. Mums are very fond of spontaneous acts of random kindness and unexpected little gifts even the odd 'thank you' can be as precious as a diamond bracelet to your average mum.

[Clarity]

Karma is dependent on the conceptual mind that labels everything. So if life just is, then karma doesn't really exist. All it is is a label that your mind uses to explain things.

 

 

Chris, in my experience this is not true. Karma affects us whether we believe in it or not. When you find an energetic weakness and you get to the feeling of that weakness, you do so in place that exists beyond the conceptual mind. You are 'seeing' with your insight that thread of energy tied to some event or series of events that created the weakness for the person(s) or situation.

 

Aside from the abuse (that was definitely a weakness you corrected), there seems to be no end to the criticism and judgement. And if that's the case, then Sin would ask himself "Why does this bother me so much?"

 

In my experience, anything that bothers us means we experienced it before by 1. doing the same to others 2. other people doing to each other 3. doing it to ourselves. Using this method (Yuen Method) you would also look at influences from the ancestors, descendants, spirits, multiple personalities, and collective humanity.

 

So around judgement and criticism it would be Sin's experiences of judging and criticizing others, judging and criticizing himself, and his ancestors experiences of judging and criticizing others.

 

Finally, I would never recommend to anyone that they simply put up with their pain. If you have pain, find out where it comes from and delete it.

 

Deci mentioned using the pain, to see through it. Well, that would mean connecting to your insight for the answer.

 

Insight is like shining a light in the dark, when the weaknesses becomes illuminated, the pain goes away and we return to a more balanced and neutral place.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Clarity

[三江源]

............ your average mum.

 

 

no such thing exists.

[Birch]

Mean ones most certainly do.

Does whether she is unintentionally doing it or intentionally doing it change anything? I suspect it does, however that may be more of a burden to the person on the receiving end of it. Speaking from experience. It's also one of the reasons I'm so interested in causality, healing, psychology, all of it, so I might just understand why it was happening. I've gotten some way with that but for the most part it hasn't really changed the effect it has had (and in some respects) continues to have on me. THAT's the part to resolve, mean mom or not.

 

I also consider that lumping 'mothers' into some kind of catch all category (nice or average or nasty) without discerning who they are as people is a very good way to avoid looking at them. 'Fathers' used to be in this monolithic unspeakable category also, but (IMO) feminism got us past that. We ought to do same with 'mothers'. Otherwise 'nasty' gets to hide there a bit longer. It has no gender.

 

---2cts rant--

[skydog]

good posts all and clarity thanks for your clarity lol

[Aaron]

Karma is only an escape from reality. Buddhists use it in lieu of sin in order to advocate morality. In other words they say you've accrued all of this negative karma because of past lives and only by being good in this life can you be rid of it. If you believe that, well I've got one for you, why not just say you were born in sin and in order to be free of it you must become saved (or enlightened) and live a moral good life (according to what is taught to be moral and good, not necessarily beneficial or compassionate) in order to stop the dharma cycle (go to heaven).

 

Every religion has this. It's the easiest and best way to keep people behaving the way the religious teachers want them to. You can't have people in an organized religion thinking and doing whatever they want, otherwise how will they know they should donate money or give their children to the monasteries to make sure that the religion carries on and doesn't die because people realized that none of it was actually real, but rather just a means to an end?

 

Stop worrying about your karma and begin worrying about how your actions effect others. Don't do things because they are moral or good, but rather view each action you take and how those actions help or harm others. Allow compassion to be your guiding force and you will never need to worry about sin or karma, because you will see that no human being is born with flaws, we are all born with the capacity for kindness or cruelty and only the lessons we learn in this life lead us towards one or the other.

 

Take responsibility for yourself, worry less about other peoples actions and you will find things tend to work out in the end. If your mother asks you to come home at a certain time, but you don't want to, which is the beneficial thing to do, come home so she doesn't worry, or do what you want to?

 

Questions, questions, everywhere. I really wish people would take responsibility for what happening in their lives, rather than look for excuses as to why they aren't the way they want. More often than not, if you look at what's happening, the person to blame isn't someone else, but yourself. Act in a beneficial way and other people benefit. Act selfishly and they, more often than not, don't.

 

Aaron

Edited October 21, 2012 by Aaron

[deci belle]

Thanks, Aaron for steering this thread momentarily to the topic (of the title, anyway)!

 

But since enlightening being can be resorted to, this is not to be overlooked in lieu of the very means to it as you have listed~ most importantly: taking responsibility for one's own actions.

 

The concept of karma may very well be misused to escape responsibility, but I don't know if that is necessarily the case here. Karma itself is certainly no escape at all. Though I said there is no escape from one's predicaments navigating delusional existence, I will ascertain that the enlightened perspective naturally excludes nothing. Self, other, absolute and discriminatory awareness is included. That's what makes functioning from within the unborn essential perspective real.

 

As for your second sentence, that's a cool comparison— and even though you seem to be aiming the comparison at the lowest level of formative-morality buddhism, it could be carried further as the effects of both sin and karma are transcended as a result of atonement with noumenon, suchness as is.

 

But, then the analogy starts to veer… Karma is both positive and negative. It is your life— intertwined as creative potential potential. When you sever the root of karma in your life, it is still up to you to keep it that way— and that is not a matter of keeping your personal little ball of enlightenment separate from delusion; which is a subject beyond the scope of this thread.

 

In order to discuss karma, it is necessary to gain the perspective of selfless awareness which is not to be confused with conventional notions of good and bad or compassion. These conventional notions are the formative moralities of religions the world over. But the source of buddhism is not religion. Actually, the highest levels of authentic enlightened teaching on this planet regardless of location or civilization are beyond any organizational hierarchy. This is precisely what buddhism teaches. This is called the transmission outside of doctrine, words and meaning. This isn't religion— it's the source of religion. One has to be utterly free and independent to experience this, much less uphold this in ordinary situations.

 

This is why I said that if one really wants to be free, I recommend psychological detachment leading to nonpsychological openness.

 

Karma is the law of action within the confines of creation. Enlightening being is just this nonpsychological open awareness without bias or inclination operating as one's own dharma-eyes outside the confines of creative cycles enabling one to see through karmic evolution (one's own AND others') in the midst of the blood and guts of everyday ordinary situations. This is not just gaining insight— it is using insight like a pro. Expertise and precision come with practice. What is essential is spontaneous selfless response based on pure freedom beyond convention. The Art of War states that quickness, even if clumsy, is superior to preconceived strategies based on (in effect) leading from behind; ie: calculated reacting.

 

This gets closer to the heart of the karmic conundrum because spontaneous movement is based on stillness, openness and clarity, whereas karma is dependent on kinesis; psychological momentum as created conditioned cycles. Enlightening being is the expression of the living aware unborn energy undetermined by creation. This is the Causeless. Severing the root of karmic existence is the same as entry into the Causeless. Causeless action using unborn energy is selfless action responding naturally to parameters set up and determined by karma itself. Enlightening being isn't free of karma~ it's free in karma. Nothing is excluded.

 

Since all the formative moralities and wisdom teachings of authentic traditions the world over are the result of the civilizing function of Universal Good, not a country, nor religious doctrine, I must insist that actions ruled by conventions of compassionate behavior in thought and action do not go far enough to get to the root of the problem of having a self.

 

The most effective way of commanding selfless action responding in immediate acquiescence is by gaining the perspective of one's inherent selfless awareness that operates independently from within one's own spheres of delusion without excluding delusional or absolute qualities in self or others.

 

There is a reason why it is called the Great Vehicle. Karma is not to be avoided in others and is not to be perpetuated in oneself.❤

[C T]

Practical talk for the OP --

 

[GrandmasterP]

K I work with some third wave post-feminists [feminisms being considered passe in the academy as very old hat white bourgeois affectation this twenty years past and more] and to a woman if they could afford to do so they would opt to be stay at home moms. Average for moms, 'mean average' NE way IMO is that they really love their own kids. Those who don't being those few sorry exceptions who prove the rule.

[Aaron]

Hello Deci Belle,

 

I disagree with almost everything you said, but I wont quibble, I think I made my point clearly the first time. One point I wanted to address, which is one of the reasons I abhor religions, Buddhism included, is the notion that there is something wrong with us. You said the 'problem of having a self', but I don't see that being the problem at all. It's just an excuse that's used to encourage people to practice Buddhism. "Oh I know you're sad, but that's because you haven't been able to see through the illusion of self." Yeah, well I'm sure that makes sense to someone who can't understand that being sad really isn't a problem, but a natural reaction caused by our emotions. Suffering isn't the cause of a dharmic or karmic cycle, it's a natural experience that teaches us how to interact with the world. If we do something that hurts someone else's feelings and they in turn hurt ours, that's natural and NORMAL. If someone dies and we feel sad, that's because we loved that person and feel their loss. Feeling loss is normal. It's what makes the mother go look for her lost child, the father stand up to bandits to defend his family, and the son check in on their elderly mother to make sure she's okay. See the picture there?

 

Without a self, what are we? Really what are we? I think therefore I am. Self is tied to our recognition that we exist within this world, without that, what do we have? The problem of self, is the problem of selfishness. I would say selfishness is having a doctrine that forbids their monks from having contact with their relatives. I would say selfishness is a religion that allows fathers to abandon their children for 'enlightenment'. I would say selfishness is a religion that takes in children and brainwashes them, rather than allows them to come to their own decision when they are old enough to do so.

 

Hmm... i guess karma isn't the only problem i see in Buddhism (and Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and the list goes on). My main point is that MOST of the harm caused in the world today is done under the guise of morality, most often the morality endorsed by the nations religion. And for those who bring up Communism, that's actually a religion as well.

 

Aaron

[deci belle]

Aaron, your many and varied opinions aside… the fact is that you are inestimably guilty of something you cannot deny.

 

There is something wrong with you— and you hate being reminded of it! It is the fact that you know you have a self! I hereby predict that you will take that problem with you to your grave.

 

Until you realize for yourself that you, in fact, do not have a self— your abhorence of what you call religion is just as much a real problem for you as somebody's mum.