Why are there fewer women than men in search of Enlightenment and Freedom from Samsara?

[Stosh]

A man who turns to his woman in the morning

and loves her mussed up hair

loves even the dribble at the corner of her mouth

Has wisdom.

Stosh

[Aetherous]

A man who turns to his woman in the morning

and loves her mussed up hair

loves even the dribble at the corner of her mouth

Has wisdom.

Stosh

 

I guess there's a fine line between wisdom and folly.

[Stosh]

I guess there's a fine line between wisdom and folly.

 

Yeah ,

but do you agree?

Stosh

[Aetherous]

I've seen a lot of fools in that same position...so, only sort of.

[Stosh]

Sigh,,,

I accept my fools status.

Stosh

[zanshin]

I never met a woman who bothered to play chess

Never saw a woman roughhousing with the kids either

 

 

Seriously?

 

It's not that unusual. Maybe you could get to know some women before you analyze us.

[Marblehead]

You can play with Tallahassee Kenny ...

I rather enjoyed playing with Tallahassee Lassie and Dallas Alice as well.

[Stosh]

Seriously .

I believe it is ,

and I have,

and yall are providing plenty of fodder to support

what I am saying.

 

Im not some child , who hasnt had any experience

and I havent analyzed you.

 

That it goes against the grain

that it goes against what typical socialization

nowadays calls "acceptable"

I know.

But even the most ardent opposition I have on this thread, Cat ,

agreed that women are less satisfied with their mates

blames the men ...

and supplied that women live longer without than with.

I didnt invent that.

 

And she supplied the picture of a presumably mean dude

yelling at a presumably innocent chick

as evidence why women are unhappy with their mates

 

There is absolutely nothing in the photo to justify

or villify the dude ,

but I am supposed to regard the situation as

self explanatory ,,, ergo..

that men are mean and women are innocent is supposed to be a naturally

under stood thing , according to Cat.

Which indicates she thinks it is.

Stosh

[zanshin]

..

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[三江源]

stosh, you cant speak for me.

 

btw.. I guess I could be in the the role of 'ardent opposition' to you if you liked. actually I dont know what I would be opposing, though.. I hadnt realised you had taken up a position and were interpreting me as formulating a fixed stance.

 

 

if i had, it would of course be horse stance.

[zanshin]

..

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Stosh]

I dont think I do speak for you

I recognize youre bright and can handle it yourself.

Your stance I believe , intentionally or not

has been consistent though.

And I am taking the time to draw up my point

rather than be ambiguous about it.

Is there a chance you agree with what I am saying?

Stosh

[Stosh]

Sorry, Stosh, didn't mean to sound snotty. Or maybe I did, I am mean and not innocent.

Whether you are mean or not , wouldnt rest on a single reaction ,

as far as I am concerned

on a subject that I myself consider ...difficult.

Like I said, I know it goes against typical socialization messages.

Stosh

[三江源]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkFO0Tn2F7c

[三江源]

I posted a love song, for everyone on the board. For suninmyeyes and rainbow_vein and for ~K~ and Zanshin and everybody who wants to get close to something, they dont need to know what.. for stosh and marbles and sunlover and nikolai.... here's to us all on the path, making creative use of divisive suggestions, making creative use of spaces like this.

 

 

[Marblehead]

 

 

"Heart Of Gold"

 

I want to live,

I want to give

I've been a miner

for a heart of gold.

It's these exp

ressions

I never give

That keep me searching

for a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching

for a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

 

I've been to Hollywood

I've been to Redwood

I crossed the ocean

for a heart of gold

I've been in my mind,

it's such a fine line

That keeps me searching

for a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching

for a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

 

Keep me searching

for a heart of gold

You keep me searching

for a heart of gold

And I'm growing old.

I've been a miner

for a heart of gold.

[Marblehead]

PS No, I am not looking for a heart of gold or a heart of fire or a heart of ice. Been through all that. I just want to hold to my peace & contentment. Thanks.

[Stosh]

Yeah ,

So it is and so it shall be

Nighty- night

Stosh

[Marblehead]

It's my down time too. Turn the fish pond pumps back on as the fish should be done eating, get myself some supper, watch TV and fall asleep.

 

G'night Y'all.

[zanshin]

You can only have so much romance anyway, I can see looking for a compatible partner, but beyond that why not let people be what they want. If not what you want keep looking- or just rest. A thread about what race is most spiritual would be offensive too, but never mind pc- it would be stupid People are individuals.

[SunLover]

Yin, more rooted to Earth. They are mostly here to bring souls to this plane. Blessed those females who decide this follow this difficult journey.

 

Gerard, I do not know what happened in this forum over the past year or so but it seems that the level of intelligence on this forum is going back to where it was in the past 3 years ago.

 

Yin more rooted to Earth. Yang is the sky.

 

No wonder there are more male priests and monks seeking to leave humanity and samsara than women. I am beginning to understand more.

 

I know a few who compare yin to evil and yang to good. Can it be said that it is the women of this world who lead the men astray? Can we say then that women are the ones who tempt to do evil? For if man has no sexual desires, what need does he has to kill and hunt for his family as well as perform other evil deeds?

[SunLover]

I think the first thing I would say is that I think women are indeed more materialistic than men, but this does not mean that they are any the less spiritual. The true opposite of the philosophical term material is ideal and in religious language these might be translated as earth and heaven respectively. the spiritual search for enlightenment and samsara is the search for the material and ideal to be united according to the religious formula: samsara is nirvana, or the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

Before this union is achieved I think women tend to root their spiritual practise in the material realm through acts of love, good deeds etc. It takes time for them to realise that spiritual life is more than just making other people happy and comfortable while they live on earth.

 

On the other hand men can be overly idealistic and root their practice in what seem to women abstract formulations of theologies, systems and laws.

 

The female way might be thought of goodness and the male way the way of wisdom. But, as I said, the aim of both paths is to realise that being kind needs a wise and sober understanding of the situation if we are not to make it worse, and that all the wisdom in the world is useless without anyone to benefit from it.

 

I therefore can't agree that fewer women seek enlightenment. It can however appear that way if we understand that path to enlightenment in an overly male way. This can also lead to one-sided evaluations of female behaviour. For example:

 

 

 

Actually I agree with this, but I also think that they are less likely to judge men on their looks. men on the other hand can be quite unvain in themselves but find themselves quite harshly judging an unattractive woman. Each gender is therefore guilty in their own way but in a way that complements the virtue of the other. If we only see the negatives in the opposite gender we are missing the whole picture.

 

[/font][/color]

 

Yes, I agree that the frustrations inherent in the female path will steer them towards the male path, and vice versa. I'm not so sure about this notion of choice but I certainly think that a young woman who seems overly invested in their appearance is in for a big and ultimately productive shock.

 

I think the materialistic nature of women can be so hard for men because it goes against everything that they feel to be right. But if we can come to terms with it and endorse it then it frees us up and makes us able to love women properly and deeply. We don't have to be afraid of what women represent, and so many women, especially the feminists, don't need to be afraid of us men.

 

best wishes, Nikolai

 

Nikolai, I have to heartily disagree with you. There is no way for the material to be united with the spiritual. The goal of all spiritual paths is to leave samsara by achieving nirvana. By evolving ourselves into Buddhas and Gods in other words. If a woman is too stubborn to leave all her material desires and attachments, then such a woman will find it impossible to leave samsara and ascend to become a Goddess.

 

Compassion w/o wisdom is just as dangerous and evil as wisdom w/o compassion. If you know a tiger will hurt and kill a lot of people, is it compassion to let the tiger live while it feeds on lambs?

[SunLover]

Traditionally women haven't been allowed to become priests and spiritual leaders etc because of misoginistic attitudes, so in public they may not seem to be as many women is search but privately that may be different.

 

But what the Dalai Lama has been saying recently is that in reality women have many advantages over men for cultivation in the Tibetan way at least because they have the stronger child rearing instinct which can be used to connect with compassion, so he is always encouraging women to become more responsible and take advantage of this, but really the Tibetans aren't much better for sexist attitudes as there was only ever about one nunnery to hundreds of male monasteries so they can't talk.

 

But it could be that women and men express their egotism in different ways, Gurdjieff used to talk about "Madame vanity and Monsieur self-love" as two of the main expressions of egotism, but you can certainly find many examples of how men are more vain and materialistic these days.

 

Women do not have to become spiritual leaders in order to become nuns. The Dalai Lama is just covering up the fact that mothers will find it much more difficult to leave samsara in this lifetime so they might as well spend this life-time practicing more compassion so they might have a chance to break free of samsara in the next life.

[SunLover]

The more you suffer the more you search for answers?

 

Men are more egocentric, hence suffer more and have a higher rate of searching for the truth?

 

The more you realize you are suffering, the more you search for answers. Most women do not realize they are suffering because of their material desires and attachment, this is why they do not have the motivation to search for freedom from samsara.

 

Men are more egocentric in the sense that they are more unwillingly to sacrifice their own enlightenment for the sake of others, I agree with you. But this same egocentricity also leads men to the search for the thing which frees them from the trap of samsara.

 

If you watched the movie samsara, you understand that women also have the desire to search for freedom from samsara but they just can't bear to leave their child. In other words, this compassion for their own children lead to the tragic fate of most mothers on this planet. Most mothers fail to break free of samsara in this life-time because of compassion for their children. This statement might sound harsh but I say the truth for what it is.

Edited October 25, 2012 by SunLover

[SunLover]

Ken Wilber says that the basic drive of women is to be full, full of relationships etc while with men it is to be free, which is represented in the way the sexual energy is configured. How this transfers into the spiritual search I'm not sure but it is interesting to contemplate.

 

I guess I am not the only one who makes the observation that more men are looking for freedom than women.