Microcosmic Orbit

[Trunk]

Yoda's recent blog post (which I snipped with his permission) got me thinking that it's a good time to check in on this topic:

So I decided to quit the MCO practice and aspirations. I still suck at it and it still pisses me off.

 

Yogani says that spinal breathing is good enough and I can do that, so I'm set.

 

Of course, I can't help tinker with that either:

 

Instead of breathing up from the perineum, try breathing up from the balls like Chia's testical breathing. It traverses the same path, stays clear of the crown, so it should be ayp kosher.

 

It's a lot of fun... it literally makes my balls cold. Some women on the ayp forum have mentioned experimenting with ovary breathing modification as well with interesting results, so I'm sure that's a possibility too.

I wonder how everyone is on the mco (microcosmic orbit)... We've mostly all 've been exposed to it long long ago, and have time to explore totally other systems, practices, approaches, views, for quite a while. (Plus we've mostly cleaned ourselves of naive party-line thinking, and have come more to simple honesty, however that is.) Interesting to re-look at the orbit now.

 

Do you still practice the mco?

Has it held up as a standard and effective practice for you?, Have you found it counter-productive? - in what way/s?

Do you feel fluent with it?, partly ok?, all messed up?

Which of the things that it's advertised to do does it do for you?, which not?

Have you tweeked it in order for it to go well?, or moved on to something similar or related?, dumped it altogether?

.. or any mco observations, thoughts, you've got.

 

I raise these questions in the spirit of "all honest answers are good answers", everyone is in a different place in their practice, where ever it goes it's all good, not bashin', just talkin'.

 

Trunk

[GrandTrinity]

I have had an up and down relationship with the orbit, although I find it is a great measure of my inner clarity - if it flows or not, that is. I am interested in learning more funky or blisfful physical methods for opening it - and very interested in the sounds or mudras or subtle qigongs which could help.

 

Often I forget hos easy it is to take the hands and direct it to open in this way. Yesterday I learned that the first reiki attunement is involved with opening the central channel using the hands on points... this is very similar.

 

If you look at the or google homunclus... it is clear as to why this method is important for getting it to flow...

 

Recently I was thinking about how I try to open points but dont feel they are connected - got to make it flow back and forth between points...

 

Also, I got a cranio sacral treatment recently from advanced practitioner and reiki master/massage therapist - I felt the orbit flow open very wide in this... intense experience....

[Cameron]

I don't do it often. Ime not against it or think it's bad just not really drawn to it. I talked to David Twicken about it he says some days he does the smile and orbit and some days just go to the center. I have been in a real emptiness practice phase for awhile and probably will still be next year but if I am attracted to it might do it or the alchemy formulas.

 

In nutshell I follow the philosophy to allow everything to be as it is in progresssively deeper and deeper levels which I think would include a freed up, open flowing qi channels. But not something to do so much as allow.

 

But, again, I don't see it as any problem if someone is drawn to it like Bodri did. Though I would probably agree more with Bodri's view at this point than Mantak Chia or whoever, Ime not extreme about it.

 

edit- as far as qigong philosophy mine is more resonating with BK Fratzis 'water method' than Chias MCO. Basically that you should dissolve the blockages in your body(ice) to water and vapor. But I don't really do the ice to water to vapor visualization or practice so much as just see that as the natural process that happens in true meditation and standing meditation.

 

hope that is helpful.

[Spectrum]

When practice is good it almost happens by itself.

[thaddeus]

.. or any mco observations, thoughts, you've got.

If one is practicing an internal art, it's a fundamental aspect of movement. Whenever you lift your arms and drop them, you are practicing the MCO, so it never leaves you. So, i'm constantly aware of it and looking for kinks and such.

As a one off meditative deal, i'll do once in awhile to check in on things. Mostly I do it to recover lost jing, e.g. absorb energy from the outside and flow through the orbits and store it. Whether i'm deluding myself or not doesn't matter cause it seems to work for me to recover from stress or or jing depleting activities.

T

[Starjumper]

Using visualization/intent methods to do the MCO is a BAD idea and has caused considerable and permanent harm in some people. By far the best way to do it is with moving chi kung exercises, and I know at least a hundred different variations of the moving MCO. If you do the right chi kung the MCO starts up on it's own and continues naturally without any concious interference from the practitioner.

 

I've heard that Mantak Chia is the most advanced Taoist master in the world, has anyone here heard of that?

Edited December 22, 2006 by Starjumper7

[DanC]

I find the best way to do it is to focus on each point, breathing into and sensing that area, then move from point to point, I learnt this form Stuart Alve Olson.

[Spectrum]

If you do the right chi kung the MCO starts up on it's own and continues naturally without any concious interference from the practitioner.

Edited December 22, 2006 by Spectrum

[Treena]

I've always seemed to have trouble with the microcosmic orbit in the past. Now I just do it as part of what I do and it works fine.

 

I've been thinking a lot lately about the difference between working to figure out a practice and then getting to the point where you're doing it no problem. I've spent a lot of time trying way too hard when in the figuring stage. When I finally go the knack of moving energy, I realized, hey, effortless, easy.

 

I really love the method Yudelove mentioned in 100 Days of moving energy back and forth between two points that are a bit stuck. Flush the channel.

 

You can do that with your hands, too. Pass the energy back and forth over the part that you're working on. Obviously not easy for some parts of the orbit, but no prob for others.

[thelerner]

I've always liked the MCO. It never seemed as powerful as the hype, such as in Glenn Morris's book, Pathnotes. Or a path to controlled kundalini like Chia makes it out. For me its like an energy mantra. Up and down, flowing. The kind of thing to feel, then let go of.

 

I've been working with Monroe's hemi-sync CD series. An integral part is having energy rise up to the head, then circle down along the body to the feet, then back up. Similar to MCO.

 

As I've said before, the best source I've had for 'feeling' the MCO is Minke DeVos's Tao Basics CD which includes a 15 minute guided meditation. It has biaural sounds, sound effects, moves you slowly through each point, moves one pearl through the point, then 2, then many, until its a river a river of light you sit back and watch. It also moves into the Macro orbit including feet and arms. Not bad for 15 minutes.

 

I also like the chi gung form on Winns Fundamental II video for giving a good sense of energy movement.

 

Michael

[spyrelx]

I can't shake the idea that the MCO is very important. But I also can't shake the idea that it's a rather advanced practice. Or to put it more accurately, a rather advanced effect.

 

Here's where I come out.

 

The orbit exists.

 

Energy is flowing through it all the time.

 

When daoists traditionally talked about opening the MCO what they meant was achieving a state where blockages were cleared and there was an extraordinary amount of energy running through it. Once you achieved this effect it was quite noticable, and long-lasting or even permenent.

 

For instance, the Sifu Wong guys don't even practice the orbit. They say once you reach a certain level it opens up spontaneously (or with just the smallest amount of help) and stays that way, giving you virtually boundless energy and unlimited health. Bodri is probably in a similar camp.

 

But that's generally not our experience (or at least not mine). Ours is "well, I kind of felt it today but not yesterday" or "I feel it but it's kind of weak today" or "I feel most of it but I think I'm a little blocked here", etc. This is not the experience writte about in the daoist texts. So the question is why.

 

I think Chia took the concept of the MCO and said, "OK, why not allow anyone to do what advanced practitioneers do -- mentally run energy through the orbit". He recognized it was a major pathway and -- like the dan tien -- a sort of safe repository for any energy his practices might generate.

 

And I think Chia's right. There's nothing wrong with exploring it and moving energy through it (to the extent you have any significant energy and to the extent you have the skill to move it). That probably is good for you and perhaps even over time "washes the channel" and improves your health, energy, etc. And it is very chinese -- a little bit every day for years and (perhaps) all of a sudden you've got an open pathway.

 

But I'm not sure Chia's MCO meditations will ever accomplish the "boundless energy and unlimited health" that was traditionally meant by opening the channel. For that you may need other other practices and disciplines which have (a) already built up huge amounts of energy and ( already cleaned your system significantly.

 

Just my thoughts. Not having boundless energy and unlimited health, I can't speak with any real authority on this.

 

spyrelx

[DanC]

If I dont do it, I feel Im missing something vitally important to my cultivation, but there are many authors

who say simple emptiness meditation is all one ever needs, through emptiness the vital energies start to circulate without concentrating on the orbit. I think by doing the orbit meditation you get the best of both worlds, you build concentration, mindfullness, emptiness and open chi flow through the orbit.

[xenolith]

I can't speak with any real authority on this.

Well you're extremely intuitive then. I agree completely with everything that you wrote, this:

a little bit every day for years and (perhaps) all of a sudden you've got an open pathway.

in particular. It took me 10 years to move my sexual chi past my sacrum. Shortly thereafter came the ability to move it to the crown and WHAM, CCO, as well as the ability to move it beyond the crown to the governor channel, i.e. circulate it. In other words, I was unable to circulate energy, i.e. utilize my MCO, until that time...after 10 years of nearly daily sexual chi moving training.

 

It begs the question in my mind, if not sexual chi, what energy is it that you people are moving in your MCOs? And if it is sexual chi, why aren't you experiencing CCOs? I mean if you can get it past your crown, i.e. circulate it, why haven't CCOs occured?

 

Something doesn't add up here.

[Spectrum]

It begs the question in my mind, if not sexual chi, what energy is it that you people are moving in your MCOs? And if it is sexual chi, why aren't you experiencing CCOs? I mean if you can get it past your crown, i.e. circulate it, why haven't CCOs occured?

 

Something doesn't add up here.

 

Life is foreplay and afterglow bro. Lighten up.

[Starjumper]

Duhhhhh, what's CCO?

[thelerner]

Crown Chakra Orgasm. See Xenoliths comments in his introduction at the Lobby.

 

I also think Spyrelix nailed it. I suspect for me its a little bit of energy and mostly being aware of inner and outer nerves along the path of my orbit. Thats why its no head blowing satorilike orgasm.

 

Ofcourse sometimes you fake it til you make it. It does work as a mantra, taking the thought out of the mind placing it in a slow steady motion.

 

Michael

[xenolith]

Life is foreplay and afterglow bro. Lighten up.

It was just a question my friend. Which, IMO, has significant relevance to the topic of this thread. Care to answer it?

 

Thank you for your answer Michael.

 

By the way, IMO, Life is more akin to that which follows foreplay and precedes afterglow. At least mine is . But now I'm off-topic.

 

Hoping to read further perspectives and insights relating to (my question in particular and) the topic of this thread.

Edited December 24, 2006 by xenolith

[GrandTrinity]

Look at it froma Jing Chi Shen perspective - circulating not just sexual essence in the physical body but also subtle breath or heart essence in the energy body and spirit or universal force as shen - transforming merging...

 

when the orbit opens the trinity of JING CHI SHEN (and all other trinities) will open and connect... I think this is what is happening (in reality) when the orbit really opens.

 

The idea someone raised about Chia being the most advanced Tao master in the world? interesting. lol. all I got to say.

 

I like also what someone said about every movement become part of the orbit - like reaching out to open a door or drinking somew water... it just gets integrated... we practice it so many times that we could be mistaking ourself when we say "now I will open it" as it is already open if you been embodying some kan and li...and whatnot.

 

Putting one hand on the chest and one on the lower elixir field, I find, helps connect the kan and li so the ren and du can open and everything flows real nice.

[Spectrum]

I enjoy the journey as much as reaching the next destination.

 

By my understanding Jing is converted to Chi and is circulated to cultivate Shen.

[Treena]

As I've said before, the best source I've had for 'feeling' the MCO is Minke DeVos's Tao Basics CD which includes a 15 minute guided meditation. It has biaural sounds, sound effects, moves you slowly through each point, moves one pearl through the point, then 2, then many, until its a river a river of light you sit back and watch. It also moves into the Macro orbit including feet and arms. Not bad for 15 minutes.

 

Michael,

On a quick search of amazon and net I didn't get any hits on the Minke Devos CD. It's sounds really interesting. What are your directions for locating it?

[xenolith]

By my understanding Jing is converted to Chi and is circulated to cultivate Shen.

By mine as well (distillation of Jing to Chi being the hard part!).

 

What I want to know is how do those that do this ("this" being (Jing to Chi) energy conversion and subsequent circulation, IOW, MCO activation) not experience CCOs when they do it. Based on my experience and the information provided in this thread, the latter of which uniformly indicates an absence of experience of CCO, and therefore, based on my understanding of the operant mechanics of MCO activation, an absence of experience of COMPLETE (where complete means ability to convert jing to chi and deliver it to the crown) MCO activation. I can only conclude that those that think they've achieved MCO activation, in fact, have not. I'd like this understanding to be wrong, but that'll take different information than has been provided here so far.

 

I hope that didn't come across as "heavy". I'm simply inquisitive. I do Love you all. And am trying to help you (with respect to what the realities of MCO activation and CCO cultivation are in this case). I hope you'll treat me similarly.

 

Thank you Spectrum and Grand Trinity for your contributions.

 

To summarize my current hypothesis, I think most people

fake it til you make it.

And then they don't make it. Because it takes YEARS OF COMMITMENT, based on my experience. Which, based on my experience and the information that I've gathered here (and elsewhere), most people, including, based on the information provided, those who've responded in this thread, don't have.

 

Sorry. Again, I'd Love to be wrong. Please...pretty please, give me reason to think otherwise.

 

p.s. Word up friends...no CD is going to open your MCO. This is another case of my suspension of belief (i.e. sig advice) not being sufficient to incorporate the concept of an "easy button" Tao. Yes, meditative and other "light" practices are easy and thier benefits are real, but transcendental (dare I say "heavy") practice takes commitment and time as far as I can tell. One doesn't accidentally find enlightenment.

 

Like I said, please give me reason to think otherwise. When it proves to have been worthwhile, suspending my belief is my absolute favorite activity...I'm doing it now in anticipation of the further insightful comments of my fellow bums...

 

Offered with Love.

 

xeno

[林愛偉]

Using visualization/intent methods to do the MCO is a BAD idea and has caused considerable and permanent harm in some people. By far the best way to do it is with moving chi kung exercises, and I know at least a hundred different variations of the moving MCO. If you do the right chi kung the MCO starts up on it's own and continues naturally without any concious interference from the practitioner.

 

I've heard that Mantak Chia is the most advanced Taoist master in the world, has anyone here heard of that?

 

 

There are cultivators much more advanced than he is. In the Daoist realm very high level masters do not want society to know they exist because it is more harmful to the people and to themselves. They mix into society.

If one is looking for a genuine cultivator, seek Zhang Yi Xiang (Lily Siu), 64th Heavenly Master of Long Hu Shan located in Hawaii at the Tai Xuan foundation.

 

Sometimes a highly skilled master is rght under our noses, and we can't tell because the cup is too full.

 

Peace and Happiness to you all...

 

Aiwei

[Treena]

I don't know, Xeno. I've experienced the orbit a number of different ways, and I wouldn't say that any of them are incorrect or wrong or not the real thing. My experiences range from energy just moving around it to that deep gelatinous slow-moving light filled substance that has its own time and flow.

 

I'm actually puzzling over why we all perceive this so differently. And why one way is considered better or more right than another.

 

And using recorded info, what's wrong with that? It's simply a guided meditation.

[forestofsouls]

 

For instance, the Sifu Wong guys don't even practice the orbit. They say once you reach a certain level it opens up spontaneously (or with just the smallest amount of help) and stays that way, giving you virtually boundless energy and unlimited health. Bodri is probably in a similar camp.

 

But that's generally not our experience (or at least not mine). Ours is "well, I kind of felt it today but not yesterday" or "I feel it but it's kind of weak today" or "I feel most of it but I think I'm a little blocked here", etc. This is not the experience writte about in the daoist texts. So the question is why.

 

 

 

Bodri's material has an interesting take on this. He does write that the MCO will open on its own with proper meditation. He also distinguishes imaginary sensations, pre-chi grades of sensation, and actual chi sensations. This makes the most sense to me. In my experience, my "chi flow" sensations have gotten stronger (depending on my current health/mental state), but not nearly as strong as the induced chi I've experienced from a master.

 

This is not to say that my lesser "chi flow" exercises have been useless. They perform real healing on my body, increase my general energy, calm my mind, etc. etc. But clearly, they aren't the "real deal" as I've experienced it. Chi sensations should be as vivid and clear as physical objects, based on my experience. I can recognize that despite my long labors, I am still at a preliminary stage of practice.

 

I think Xeno has the right idea here. It takes years of hard work to achieve anything substantial in these arts. The reason I say this is because every reputable authority on this subject agrees. The minimum is generally ten years of hard, ongoing work.

[Spectrum]

My thoughts on this, which IMHO the time would be better put to use if we weren't thinking about this at all, but a number of pointed statements are made in which I would like to address.

 

the latter of which uniformly indicates an absence of experience of CCO

 

A sure fire way to set yourself up for dissapointment and failure is to have expectations on the outcome of any practice. If it works for you keep doing it.

 

Which, based on my experience and the information that I've gathered here (and elsewhere), most people, including, based on the information provided, those who've responded in this thread, don't have.

 

I suppose it's obvious but I'll ask anyways... what information are you refering to?

 

"practice takes commitment and time as far as I can tell. One doesn't accidentally find enlightenment."

 

Nor does one enlightened claim to be so. Those who talk, don't know. Those who know, don't talk. I agree that we're refering to a very specific process in human development, yet comparing "enlightenment" experiences over the internet seems very contrary to my practice so...

 

"The minimum is generally ten years of hard, ongoing work. "

 

Ahh. Traditionally 100 days initiation period, 2 years foundation-unification process... 10 years to complete your circuit? Sounds about right. Give or take 5-15 years. <shrug> Thats about right for most all "art" that can be practiced by humans, less they be "special kids". Everyone has different hangups and some learn to ride the wave right away.

 

an absence of experience of COMPLETE (where complete means ability to convert jing to chi and deliver it to the crown) MCO activation. I can only conclude that those that think they've achieved MCO activation, in fact, have not.

 

I agree that although any number of warm fuzzies may be an promising indication of success in the chapter of taoist cultivation, I would attribute failures by westerners past these initial phases of cultivation to an over-reliance on the visualization or "guiding" process that has been promoted in the west by folks attempting to propagate meditation practice, particularlly "techniques", through books, videos and CD's. When in reality Oral tradition is the ONLY way to recieve proper instruction. Furthermore these sensations become distractions themselves. I think some people stumble upon the truth indeed, but this is the exception, not the norm. There is simply to much conditioning for it to be.

 

What I want to know is how do those that do this ("this" being (Jing to Chi) energy conversion and subsequent circulation, IOW, MCO activation) not experience CCOs when they do it.

 

My short answer? Could be a number of reasons. Maybe they fail to regard the pre-requisites of meditation by not abstaining from the various harms. Maybe they are thinking and not empti minding it. Maybe just maybe they just arn't ready for "it". If there is one thing I have discovered it is built in safeguards to prevent those who are not ready from experiencing things they are not ready for. Personally I think the biggest hindrence is ego attachment and identification of self with said experiences.

 

For the dedicated cultivator, I would say simply that from my perspective you always start where you last left off. For this reason one should proceed methodically and carefully.

 

To delve one harmonic deeper into those who attempt to experience certain levels of consciouessness prior to when they are "ready", particularlly those whos mind are not properly prepared, risk permanent problems i.e. chi/kundalini sicknesses, spirit posession/harrasment, unwanted oobe's, and a general tendancy towards mania or a number of mind/body dysfunctions.

 

Wth that said I can not judge others practices. No way no how. I've experienced many "peak experiences" that I attribute to continually practicing Taoist meditation/cultivation exercises, following Taoist principles of geomancy, and practicing Taoist martial art with an emphasis on yeilding.

 

As for focusing on any one peak experience, I do not, although many of them repeat w/ increase or lessened intensity through consistant practice with cyclic regularity, be it daily, weekly or monthly. But by focusing on any one aspect of consciousness, any one experience, any one "feeling" as it were, would really be a distraction, and isn't really "how" the experiences that are worthwhile, tranformative, and life changing transpire in the first place.

 

I agree with you in your statements concerning the rampant use of scripts being counter productive to the empitness required to succeed in the process of what's being called the "MCO". Pain and Ecstasy being closely related I will not qualify or disqualify anothers practice based on the description of such subjective experiences as a "CCO".

 

Surfing the Tao,

 

Spectrum

Edited December 24, 2006 by Spectrum