The truth behind the Law of Attraction

[Nikolai1]

what happend to you if you don't mind sharing?

 

Sorry I missed this question. I think to answer it would need to say a few things about my own path - which has mostly been an intellectual search.

 

It can take a long time for those who have been on an intellectual path to realise that they they were also on a spiritual path. I simply thought that I was on a search for truth - the questions I was concerned with occur to everyone, spiritual and secular alike. My 'gurus' at this time were scientists, philosophers and artists rather than saints.

 

The intellectual path is essentially the way of scepticism. It is wondering whether there might be alternative explanations to the one's that we usually accept in life. I followed this path for fifteen years and I can't sum it all up easily. But to cut a long story short I ultimately realised that the basic categories of our existence: time, space, the self, will etc are nothing more than opinions and have no real truth to them. Once you reach this stage you realise that all this philosophy is an invalid enterprise in itself. The moment you seek and imagine you have found any kind of truth, you have fallen immediately into error.

 

A feature of this path, which might sound very dry and barren to many, is that there is very little in the way of unusual or miraculous experience. The spirit of scepticism is too strong to get too amazed by anything. But, there is no doubt that the search for truth does transform your life slowly and subtly.

 

For example, I haven't seen majestic visions of angels, but I am struck daily by the radiant beauty of mere people in a way I never used to be. Women in particular often appear to me as, if not angels, then something more than merely human.

 

So in terms of Final temptations and fears they have manifested in everyday life situations. Actually I am engaged in one of each at the moment. Whether they are final depends on how I resolve them - but they are certainly strong and feel disruptive.

 

I should emphasise that the relative mundanity of my experience will not be the case for all spiritual seekers. It all depends on the path they have taken. My path has been one of conscious intellectual understanding. I'm therefore unlikely to receive inspiration through visions, avatars, angels etc. My avator, my guru, is my reason and it is beautiful and precious to me. Sometimes I open my notebook and I'm astounded by what comes from my pen.

 

I think visions and revelations will occur suddenly to those who aren't taking the slow, step-by-step philosophical path. Their focus of cultivation has been elsewhere so their intellectual insight keeps pace out of sight. Then it 'catches up' in sudden, intensely meaningful experiences which can't be translated into the mundane world around them. There's been a part of me that has envied people these rich moments, but it hasn't been my way and never shall be.

 

On the other hand, I've been reading with immense interest Taoiseasy's thread on Qi Gong. This practice is a million miles from anything I have done, and yet many of the bodily states he describes I have discovered without any conscious effort or understanding at all. Likewise, I have no doubt that Qi Gong could turn people into great philosophers who've never ploughed through the German metaphysicians as I have!

 

I hope this answers your question, and sorry for missing it the first time around.

 

Nikolai

[Nikolai1]

Hi all,

 

The law of attraction is a very real force in my life, but only because I have slowly come to realise that there is no difference between what we term the mental and the physical realms. Realising this has opened up my eyes to how these two realms interact with each other in experience.

 

For example, an internal willed decision is followed by an external manifestation as regularly as night follows day. Those who are trapped in the ego think that the mental and physical realms are separate. This belief is itself the major reason why the power of the law of attraction isn't recognised.

 

It follows that our mental lives become much more meaningful and significant. Jesus said that looking on a woman lustfully is the same as committing adultery in deed. The warning has a moralistic flavour, but refers to a truth that really does apply to the spiritually developed person. The underdeveloped person has no need to take heed. Their inner life is so chaotic and scattered that the lustful thoughts are unlikely to upset anyone in reality. But the poor saint struggling with his lust for the brewer's daughter is almost bound to stumble across her as she bathes naked in the brook! How he handles the situation will either perpetuate his egoic lusts or will be the final self-mortification. After this there need be no more.

 

When our inner and outer worlds are believed to be separate there is a separation between reality and the meaning of reality. It is this separation which provides the basis for the law of attraction. A mental event loaded with meaning (either as desire or fear) will be succeeded by a corresponding reality.

 

But as the inner and outer worlds merge together (and the transcendence of the ego through spiritual practice is the process) - as the two realms merge the meaning and actuality will coincide. We see the world with the numinous vision of the poet, we engage in it with the skill of the Olympian athlete.

 

When we have reached this state the notion of the law of attraction is transcended. There is no longer any miraculous connection between the mental and the physical realms. Rather, the two have coincided into a skilfully lived life of beauty, meaning and purpose - without desire and without fear for what might be. This is the way of the Tao.

[Jetsun]

Psychologists have described a stage which every baby and young child goes through they call magical thinking, which is a stage where whatever they want appears, so if they are hungry and scream they get fed, if they want comfort and scream they get comforted, everything they wish for appears as if by magic. Then the child learns as they get older what they want may conflict with what someone else wants, or they may have to work to gain what they want, so things won't always appear by magic just by wishing for them. This lesson in not always getting what you want we all have to go through can be overbearing and repressive so the loa can help free up some of the limitations you have put on yourself but you still won't always get what you want, if you think you can it is just a regression to infintile magical thinking.

 

There is no doubt that using the law of attraction increases the chance of things happening for you for general things, but of course there are limitations, I have tried to use it to get a supermodel girlfriend but it hasn't worked yet, but I did get a girlfriend after trying to use it but she isn't a supermodel. Sportsmen use it too, its one of the techniques of many top sportsmen now to wish for and visualise themselves winning then letting the wish go, but the problem is both sides use it yet only one side can win so it can only work for one out of the two people, so obviously its not the ultimate law some people make it out to be. What you set out to attract may conflict with other people it may even conflict in yourself, then the real work has to begin.

[GrandmasterP]

Hi all,

 

The law of attraction is a very real force in my life, but only because I have slowly come to realise that there is no difference between what we term the mental and the physical realms. Realising this has opened up my eyes to how these two realms interact with each other in experience.

 

For example, an internal willed decision is followed by an external manifestation as regularly as night follows day. Those who are trapped in the ego think that the mental and physical realms are separate. This belief is itself the major reason why the power of the law of attraction isn't recognised.

 

It follows that our mental lives become much more meaningful and significant. Jesus said that looking on a woman lustfully is the same as committing adultery in deed. The warning has a moralistic flavour, but refers to a truth that really does apply to the spiritually developed person. The underdeveloped person has no need to take heed. Their inner life is so chaotic and scattered that the lustful thoughts are unlikely to upset anyone in reality. But the poor saint struggling with his lust for the brewer's daughter is almost bound to stumble across her as she bathes naked in the brook! How he handles the situation will either perpetuate his egoic lusts or will be the final self-mortification. After this there need be no more.

 

When our inner and outer worlds are believed to be separate there is a separation between reality and the meaning of reality. It is this separation which provides the basis for the law of attraction. A mental event loaded with meaning (either as desire or fear) will be succeeded by a corresponding reality.

 

But as the inner and outer worlds merge together (and the transcendence of the ego through spiritual practice is the process) - as the two realms merge the meaning and actuality will coincide. We see the world with the numinous vision of the poet, we engage in it with the skill of the Olympian athlete.

 

When we have reached this state the notion of the law of attraction is transcended. There is no longer any miraculous connection between the mental and the physical realms. Rather, the two have coincided into a skilfully lived life of beauty, meaning and purpose - without desire and without fear for what might be. This is the way of the Tao.

 

'This is the way of the Tao'

Is a self negating statement. The moment we seek to define Tao we are wrong and all else that follows is fanciful at best.

[hydrogen]

There's been a part of me that has envied people these rich moments, but it hasn't been my way and never shall be.

 

Maybe your own belief prevent you experiencing those rich moments. Remember LoA?

 

Don't envy us. Every moment is a curse and blessing. I question my own sanity all the time now.

 

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. It comfimed my belief again: there more than one path in spiritual evolution.

[Everything]

Just like when a consciousness knows it is a baby, it is only a matter of time before the baby responds in the way the consciousness wants it to respond; when a consciousness knows it is more then the body, it is only a matter of time before more then the body responds in the way the consciousness wants it to respond.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Everything

[hydrogen]

Just like when a consciousness knows it is a baby, it is only a matter of time before the baby responds in the way the consciousness wants it to respond; when a consciousness knows it is more then the body, it is only a matter of time before more then the body responds in the way the consciousness wants it to respond.

 

Too deep for me. Can you clarify the statement?

[Nikolai1]

Hi all,

 

What you set out to attract may conflict with other people it may even conflict in yourself, then the real work has to begin.

 

This interesting idea has been mentioned a couple of times.

 

It represents an intermediate view between the normal egoic 'will power' phase and the more powerful law of attraction. if we imagine that we are still individual's in competition with other individuals then we are still thinking mostly egoically, although there is the nascent recognition that visualisation might give us a competitive boost.

 

As we transcend the ego, we increasingly realise that the world is, in a sense, our own creation. If there are others around then they can't possibly compete with us unless we let them.

 

This phase that Jetsun mentions is similar to the phase I wrote about when our power of attraction is compromised by conflicting internal desires. As we transcend the ego our desires become purer and stronger. The parallel process is the notion that we outcompete our competitors.

 

so it can only work for one out of the two people, so obviously its not the ultimate law some people make it out to be.

 

The power of the law of attraction is in proportion to the amount of spiritual cultivation we have undertaken. To believe that the law of attraction is real but limited belongs to the early stages of our recognition of it.

[Nikolai1]

Don't envy us. Every moment is a curse and blessing. I question my own sanity all the time now.

 

Yes, if I have to keep faith that I am being led somewhere despite the barrenness, you perhaps have to keep faith that you're not being led a stray.

 

Deep down I know we're both fine

[Nikolai1]

Hi all,

 

When we first notice that our desires are few and far between we can feel a mild bewilderment. We realise that all our lives we have been propelled through life by our desires. Now we have reached a point where our desire even for spiritual practice has largely withered away.

 

What do we do with ourselves?

 

We must wait passively for desires to arise. When they do we can trust them and act on them with confidence and efficacy. This is acting through passion - or wu wei.

 

Some desires swiftly manifest in reality, for example the desire for food and sleep leads swiftly to satisfaction. Other desires may be felt more strongly and may relate to deeper less transient changes in our reality.

 

But while we are waiting for passion our only passion can be for the present moment - to make it as beautiful and as good as possible. This is the life of love and happiness. When you realise that every moment is here to be improved by your desirous intention - then your life will improve of its own accord.

[Nikolai1]

Sometimes we can have conflicting desires. We might find ourselves attracted to a new woman, but don't want to lie and cheat on our wife. So we might simultaneously want to gratify our passion, but have a clean moral conscience at the same time.

 

In these situations we might be unwilling to consciously and wilfully pursue the woman, but find ourselves wishing that the power of attraction will arrange it all for us. We might find ourselves wanting the universe to do our dirty work, while we with clean hands protest that it was heaven's will.

 

This is an inauthentic state based on an illusion of separation between will power and the law of attraction.

 

If we do not want something consciously then we will not manifest it in our reality. But if we are decided that we are willing and happy to leave our wife then heaven will bust a gut to make the new woman your own.

 

What mostly happens in the above scenario is that an ambiguous situation prevails. The woman clearly returns your affections but neither of you are able to make the breakthrough. If it seems like her ambivalence, then you are failing to recognise your own. After a while you will no longer see each other. After more time you will look back and realise that you never really wanted to leave your wife, and that is the reality that you attracted.

 

These unsatisfyingly grey situations become fewer as you outgrow your ego. Your desires become stronger, purer and more authentic - but in doing so contrast more with anything inauthentic in your outer life. Next time round, your wife may have to go.

[hydrogen]

But while we are waiting for passion our only passion can be for the present moment - to make it as beautiful and as good as possible. This is the life of love and happiness. When you realise that every moment is here to be improved by your desirous intention - then your life will improve of its own accord.

 

Very good point.

 

Most people assume that the world around us is the same to every one physically. Actually it's not the case. The world around us is presented to us according to our own karma. Karma in this case can be interpreted as our own energy vibration.

 

We are like TV. Depending which channel you turning to, you may receive different program (world). Most people stuck in one channel or they dont have enough awareness to notice that they're going through different channels and receiving different program (world).

 

Taking recreational drug is a easy way to experience different programs. Just be careful, you have the ability to switch channels. You may turn into a horror program, such the bad trip.

 

There are slightly different rules in different program (world). The higher you go, the more obvious the effect of Karma.

 

I suspect a lot of so called saints are living in a different program (world). To a normal person, they're suffering in poor living condition. Little do they know, those saints are rewarded in pure bliss in another program (world) beyond imagination of normal people. Had a normal person experienced the bliss, they'd envy the saints instead of pity.

 

I think it's safe to say "he who is really suffering isn't a true saint." Trust God/Karma/Tao, it will reward you in this life time. Whoever tells you to suffer in this life time to "buy" a good after life is selling you something for his own benefit.

 

Good deed is reward by itself only tells the half story. Good deed will be rewarded by something real and physical beyond the value of money.

 

Disclaimer: personally I don't endorse LoA. However if it lures people into spiritual evolution, I don't see why I can object it. Because I am not a saint. I started my spiritual journey by accident. Initially I wanted to highten my sexual experiences.

Edited November 16, 2012 by hydrogen

[Nikolai1]

Hi hydrogen,

 

Because I am not a saint. I started my spiritual journey by accident. Initially I wanted to highten my sexual experiences.

 

This is as good a place to start as any and everybody has to start somewhere. If you were looking to heighten sexual experience what you mean is that you were seeking transcendence or unity with something higher.

 

In all our most 'basest' most 'worldly' pleasures there is a still a germ of pure spiritual delight. I cannot emphasise this enough. Our pleasure always has been of the purest, most exalted nature. It is the methods we use that are variable, work irregularly, and often cause displeasure to others. Sex is a mutual pleasure and rarely causes harm to others, but as a method or spiritual union isn't foolproof and isn't guaranteed.

 

One thing that has struck me is that what is so often called spiritual or religious practices are no more truly spiritual than the secular counterparts.

 

Taking Communion wafer in Mass is no different for most people than is taking a pill in a nightclub.

 

I'm sorry if this offends some people but it happens to be the truth. To anyone offended, I hope you realise that I recognise the spiritual value and meaning of them both - it's just that they both happen to be quite bad methods when taken alone.

[chi 2012]

I manifested $60,000 once with the Sedona Method/Release Technique. I think the Sedona Method beats all other manifestation methods because it allows you to be in the "now" and the manifesting part is really just a stepping stone toward always being in the now. Creative visualization is good too - and can be combined with releasing. The best creative visualization tool I have used is www.presentmemory.com by Mellissa Zollo.

[oildrops]

For some reason the quote function won't work for me but I thought this sums it up well:

 

"Those who haven't followed this path will be sceptical. And there will be right to be so. They quite literally have never simplified their desires to the extent that what they really want comes to them easily. They have so many desires that they will notice all the ones that are unfulfilled. They will therefore have no reason not to think that the granting of desires is just chance or everyday will power." Nikolai1

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[GrandmasterP]

Most people mature out of taking pills in night clubs.

Taking a wafer in a mass on the other hand.....

[Birch]

Most people mature out of taking pills in night clubs.

Taking a wafer in a mass on the other hand.....

 

The 'Christianity as enthogen practice' folks would be on their erses laughing at this one Mr GranP.

 

Then there's that 'Toronto Church' stuff.

[GrandmasterP]

Oh boy did we get that Toronto Blessing over here?

Folk falling about laughing like hyenas all over the shop in Pentecostal churches, it was on TV.

So un-English.

Don't hear as much about it recently, maybe the spirit has moved on.

That Xtianity as entheogen schtick though, I reckon that may have legs.

Mr Jesus was a medium for sure so who is to say he didn't advocate a bit of light recreational toking?

Purely for Shamanistic purposes of course.

Edited November 17, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Nikolai1]

Hi Cat,

 

Our pleasure always has been of the purest, most exalted nature. It is the methods we use that are variable, work irregularly, Attracting irregular functionality of methods? this would be due to... ambivalence? or due to lack of confidence or some other on/off inner situation ?

 

When we still believe ourselves to be separate individuals the pleasure we experience is identical in nature to the pleasure we experience as transcended beings. The reason our methods are inferior and irregular is that we believe:

 

1) that some things cause us as pleasure and some cause us pain.

2) that there are other people who are also in search of the same pleasures as us, and avoiding the same pains.

 

Because this is what we believe this is how our experience really is. If we believe that some things are pleasurable, for example being high on cocaine, it follows that not being on high on cocaine will be experienced as less so.

 

Furthermore, we are aware that other people might have wanted the cocaine that we were able to buy - our consumption therefore deprives them,and vice versa. This can be experienced as guilt or envy depending on whether you are deprived or depriving. Where there is guilt and envy there is strife.

 

Clearly in real life its more complicated than this but this is essentially the ego's condition. When pleasure arises then so too, either within you or without you, does pain.

 

I don't understand all this as being a lack of confidence in the spiritual life because the ego is an amazing spiritual achievement. But if the egoic phase is the extent of a person't spiritual development then they will attract circumstances that fit with that self-conception. It is only when the ego becomes dissatisfied or disillusioned with these precarious pleasures that the ego is slowly transcended and the LoA as we know it starts to get noticed.

 

Sex is a mutual pleasure and rarely causes harm to others, but as a method or spiritual union isn't foolproof and isn't guaranteed. Surely it would be foolproof and guaranteed if one were in the correct inner state to attract foolproof guaranteeable results?

 

Yes, this is true. It reminds me of St Augustine's dictum: if you love God then you are free to enjoy whatever you wish.

 

The reason sex came up is because Hydrogen said that his desire for better sex was his introduction to the spiritual life. If sex is your only method of cultivation then you are likely to find it irregularly successful also. Firstly, it requires you to find a partner who is also motivated to turn sex into a kind of yoga, which isn't everyone. Secondly, if you neglect other aspects of your spiritual development then the best sex in the world isn't going to make you tolerable to live with or tolerant of others. Disputes in other areas of your life will affect the sex.

 

People might think that theoretically very high sexual experiences might be achieved with partners who serve that purpose in your life and nothing else. But in reality only the spiritually advanced would be able to be so detached. If a normal person has great sex with someone they hardly know, maybe a one-night stand, then they are likely to have fallen in love as well. if we say "oh it was just great sex" then we more often that not deceive ourselves. We find ourselves wondering what this virtual stranger is doing, we have a silly urge to tell them about our day, introduce them to our friends...

 

The well-developed person whose spiritual pleasure is gained from many areas in their life could certainly enjoy sexual ecstasy regularly and without side-effects. But...in reality it might be that they have lost their motivation to actively seek it out. Some people are less gendered than others and so achieve sexual balance relatively early. For such people spiritual development brings with it a celibacy that might feel involuntary. For others sexual desire remains a source of deep satisfaction right to the end.

 

Sex is a very deep issue because it relates to one of the ego's most fundamental categories; gender. But If we look at our own lives we might see how our lesser desires have fallen by the wayside as we develop.

 

I hope I've answered your questions, Nikolai

[Nikolai1]

 

Disclaimer: personally I don't endorse LoA.

 

Hi Hydrogen - believe it or not, neither do I !- or not fully.

 

The law of attraction is actually a one-sided way of explaining something that I certainly know from experience:

 

When I want something it has a way, sometimes uncannily, of appearing in my life.

 

There are two opposite ways of explaining this, for me, undeniable phenomenon.

 

1) Agentically. That is that I am a willing agent who wants things which the cosmos or God then delivers. This is the Law of attraction and a spiritualised conception of free will. It feels like whatever we want shall happen

 

2) Non-agentically. That I am an uninvolved observer who sees things mentally just before they manifest physically. This is what the Buddha called dependent origination and is a spiritualised conception of determined causality. It feels like whatever happens we want. This intepretation appears egoically not as free will but as a kind of determinism, perhaps even fatalism.

 

Were I to talk about both of these perspectives at the same time I would make no sense. I've therefore chosen the sexier one. But, as I said, the lived reality in a way transcends either of these all too intellectual accounts.

 

Nikolai

[Everything]

Too deep for me. Can you clarify the statement?

I have created a topic, to complicate my clarification statement, for you, and shall now share with you the link to this topic:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/25437-third-law-of-creation/

[Jox]

It is only when we have virtually outgrown the ego that we start to notice that the way things come our way is quite uncanny. It is only when our confidence in our laws of attraction is high that we notice that some people are not responding to us. It is these people I suggest are reflecting remnants of our egoic lack of confidence. The people who seem to be immune to us represent our deep-rooted lack of confidence in ourselves. To people at this stage, it is hard to imagine that they would ever walk away from relationships. A, they wouldn't need to because their spouse would reflect their own exalted state and B, they would never solve problems in this way.

 

Phew! All this is very hard to talk about because the law of attraction has these two aspects, even though it is always itself.

 

1) When it is called will power and it is limited in scope. Because it is limited in scope we don't recognise it as it is.

2) When it is called the law of attraction because we are fully conscious of it as a process.

 

Believing in it and experiencing it are the same thing, in which case it is not a belief but a fact. But of course, there are many people who don't recognise it as a fact because it isn't with them and so quite understandably dismiss it as a belief.

 

In this sense the LoA is like so many spiritual concepts: God, enlightenment, salvation...To become enlightened is to see that you have always been enlightened.

 

Thanks again, Nikolai

 

 

What do you mean with, that some people do not responding / immune to us?

 

 

Regarding relationships and L of A...

For example after some time relationship becomes "not so good anymore..." One of the partners decides to leave the relationship because of that... And then later on, new relationship and the same story is repeated...

 

What means our partners are our mirrors. If we change our partner / relationship change...

If we dont change, we play later the same game with different players...

 

 

Jox,

Edited November 19, 2012 by Jox

[Nikolai1]

Hi jox,

 

What do you mean with, that some people do not responding / immune to us?

 

One thing that becomes noticeable as we cultivate ourselves is that our interactions with people become much more positive. Even complete strangers seem friendlier and more disposed to us than we were. We aren't necessarily desiring this to happen so we just accept it as something that has changed.

 

But sometimes we might find ourselves attracted to someone and yet they do not respond to us positively. When this happens it is quite noticeable. If we are honest with ourselves we see that it only happens with certain types of people - ie people who we perceive as being very different to us. We don't believe that they would be attracted to us, for whatever reason. This is lack of confidence, based onto egoic ideas of who we are. There are two magic ingredients to make something manifest: consciousness and belief. We give these persons plenty of the former but little of the latter.

 

For example after some time relationship becomes "not so good anymore..." One of the partners decides to leave the relationship because of that... And then later on, new relationship and the same story is repeated...

 

if you are wanting a long term relationship but instead find yourself in repeated failed relationships then that shows that your relationships are based on neurotic egoic notions. You (not you personally!) probably have some false ideas about who you are, or your need for a relationship is motivated by fear, a sense of lack, or some other notion that the spiritually mature person would recognise as an illusion. Until you gain self insight the cycle will just repeat.

 

But even for many spiritual seekers there is a middle phase in their development where relationships frequently fail. Their practice is established enough to start bearing fruits in the form of greater self understanding, more confidence, less fear of loneliness, social stigma and other things.

 

It is as these fruits emerge that it becomes very clear that your relationship was based on a perceived lack or deficiency. You were putting up with negative things because you imagined you were getting positives in return, for example companionship. But when you realise in your confidence that you would also be just as happy without this person, you question why you put up with the negatives. There are three outcomes to this insight into your relationship, depending on its strength (because all relationships have some strengths)

 

1) You simply walk away without a backwards glance knowing that your next relationship will be much more successful.

2) You try to take your partner with you on your path. In other words, you try and show them how to have the confidence not to mistreat you.

3) Your partner ends the relationship because they can't stand the fact that you no longer need them.

 

As I've said in previous posts, this transformation of our lives doesn't just happen in our relationships but in careers, interests, where we live...I used to think that I would be some kind of novelist or even poet but the desire to write just died away. Now i realise that it was an inauthentic ambition based on who I liked to think I was.

 

Best wishes, Nikolai

[Birch]

Something in this thread I can a) understand agree with in the above post.

 

I'm definitely in that 'middle' situation at present. I'm also (apparently) in Sade Sati and Death and Emptiness 'phases' according to the various astrological techniques I've been playing with. Both of them seem to end at around the same time. And they both seem to be more or less about the same issues (please correct me if I haven't got it correct).

 

Not to get back to questions of determinism and free will but to get back to them, what role do you see both playing in the 'Law of Attraction'?