Baguazhang for meditation: Frantzis, Mancuso, Matsuo / DGS, Yang Yusen

[Leif]

I'm drawn into Baguazhang, but just for meditation purposes (or more exactly: meditation, qigong, aerobic exercise) at this point.

 

On my shortlist to learn from is

• Bruce Frantzis (Bagua mastery online program, re-opening soon. Expensive.),
  
• Ted Mancuso (owner of plumpub, 2 DVDs, nice price and modular approach)
  
• Christopher Matsuo - Heart of Bagua (or is it with Ray Carbullido)
  

Yang Yusen's gaobagua.net program seemed almost perfect too (especially as you are required to submit practice video for a check and feedback), but contemplating on whether it would be too disrespectful of me entering with intention to drop out at some point.

 

Also Bingkun Hu has a bagua walking form out as part of Wild Goose Qigong series.

 

 

Will appreciate any comments regarding the "Frantzis vs. Mancuso vs. Matsuo" choice, or even whether it's possible to learn the very basics from video.

 

I have read here numerous times that it's not possible, my subjective understanding of those comments so far is that it's not possible to learn the art of baguazhang that way to which I concur. Yet what if we talk about very basics - circle walking, single palm change? If people like Frantzis, Matsuo, Mancuso, Bisio, Yang Yusen, and maybe others, don't just sell "demo DVDs" but actual "DVD courses", and sure they all say you should come for live training one day but none says you have to right from the start?

 

(And yes I'll go learn with live teacher but that might take a year or two. But I need aerobic exercise right now and thought to kill two flies in one shot.)

Edited November 4, 2012 by Leif

[Trunk]

I am a bagua beginner; my experience is limited, can't compare 'em. I've only been working from Matsuo's dvds. Best most accessible spine work I've ever done, by far.

[Leif]

Thank you Trunk. But you had quite a bit of live training right? Or did you start with Heart of Bagua first?

I have some other non-fighting course from Sifu Matsuo and loved his teaching personality and his Youtube demos, that's why I'm considering him (also for the other topics he teaches to eventually progress towards one day, like silk reeling and iron shirt).

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[Trunk]

But you had quite a bit of live training right? Or did you start with Heart of Bagua first?

I've studied other things, not bagua before. Never walked a circle before "heart of bagua" dvd. I was reluctant to take up bagua, but realized that I was very engaged in Lao Xie's system and much of his system orients around bagua. Basically I'm just following the simple physical instructions per the dvd. As a result: a bunch o' cool stuff is just happening.

 

I don't have enough experience in bagua to compare it to having an in-person bagua teacher making corrections. ... but I know that I'm very happy with the results. My personal interest is health, personal growth and internal arts, btw, not martial.

 

I find myself blabbing on, so will stop here

 

- Trunk

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[GreytoWhite]

If you really need exercise and have to wait to see a good instructor in bagua I think your time would be better spent in an exercise program and just learn qigong since you're not really interested in fighting. Most of the old masters typically learned an external art or did manual labor before starting their study.

[JessOBrien]

Best option is to find a teacher, take a lesson then work on it as long as you can.

Then go get another lesson.

I did Ba Gua with Kumar, but in person not from the vid.

I'm sure the vids are good info if that's all you can get, so why not, might as well give it a try.

Whatever you do, don't screw up your knees!

Good Luck,

Jess O

[Leif]

Whatever you do, don't screw up your knees!

That was about my main concern, I can take that my technique might be wrong even after going through the instruction for 20th time and filming myself and all, but the health aspects bothered me more (from knees to spine problems some mentioned - eg. Frantzis).

That's why I have been considering Frantzis' bagua program too despite the price which is almost out of reach to me, as he seems to get very involved with all the details including health aspects in his materials. And no price is big when it comes to health.

 

More to add, if you want quality you need to make a serious investment, hence the cost is going to be high but well worth the effort. You get what you bargained for but let me tell you things don't come easy with traditional Chinese internal arts so a DVD or any online course won't be as good as training under the direct supervision of a competent teacher.

 

Please take your time to read this article I just found online.

Hopefully I'm not bargaining much, except limited geographically (I won't travel out of the country to learn). Only Ted Mancuso's DVD is pretty inexpensive, but it seemed to me it's real course and well structured, unless most other DVDs out there.

 

Thank you for the link, I'm just reading it and it quite matches my view on the matter (but then that was only formed by reading some of the bagua threads on this forum where you serious bagua players participated, anyway).

 

 

In the end I'll likely get the teacher sooner than anticipated. There are only about two teaching publically in our country, and I might be able to get to the intensive beginners course one is offering. 4x3 hours to learn 8 palms and ba da zhang is way more intensive progress than expected but it will get me foot in the door to have access to the teacher.

[JessOBrien]

Most of the Circle Walking that is the basic training of Kumar's system is outlined in his book:

The Great Stillness.

That's a good way to get a sense of how he teaches Ba Gua without investing a lot of cash in vids or travel.

If you like that book, then maybe it's worth going deeper into his stuff.

We spent many years on slow straight line walking with careful alignments, then circle walking then adding layers of dissolving, opening & closing the joints, vibrating the spine, moving intention in the body etc.

The nei gung is what gives his system depth and man it really is hard work but rewarding.

The palm changes themselves are the easy part.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard