strong energy cultivation

[Shagrath]

About Osho, I do not like him at all. In my view, he is negative. I know that he is defending free porn, open marriages, etc. These are not for me. But again, I am sure there are many people who like Osho very much. This is their view. I think differently.

 

In my opinion there is nothing to like or dislike. You agree with his words or not. He had matured consciousness and he was having fun. In one speech he talks about open marriages and in another he speaks about monogamy And in both cases he is right. It all depends from which angle he is talking. Before he died he said that everything he said in his life was a lie because you cannot describe Truth.

 

Yin-Yang Gong of Lei Shan Dao is a real thing. I have best friends who experienced it as a first hand. Moreover, it is not only Chang Sifu and Mo-Pai, there are other Sifus and lineages as well. Chang Sifu is very powerful but there are much much higher level masters out there. They just do not show themselves to public. Please do not ask more details. Of course, you have the right not to believe me as well as I have the right not to have to persuade you.

 

It's not that I disbelieve its more that I am careful what to believe in. For example lots of students of my teacher are saying lots of information about him, what he said on some subject, what he did, etc. And when you ask him is that true, on 99% cases he said that is bulls**t he never said that. And then when I asked my friends and other students why the lied they said because if the say teacher said its more believable.

 

Another kind of experiences that I had is in martial arts. My friends who are 4th-6th DAN in aikido and Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu said stories that in seminars with some famous masters the master demonstrated to them how he can mentaly stop their attack and he stopped everybody in the room. Next seminar he also did that and I also tried but he couldn't stop me and he got a punch in his face. Why? Because I don't have any subconscious belief that he is above me, better than me and I don;t consider his ultimate master as 99% of people present did. Lot of energy sensations and experiences with teachers are placebo. Watch movie Kumare.

 

My teacher always said "Do not believe nor disbelieve, always check."

 

So am not saying that there are no true masters, I would really like to meet them and train under them, but I am not buying every story about them.

[GrandmasterP]

Osho was an old scallywag for sure but anyone could do a lot worse than checking out his Chuang T'zu gloss...

 

'When the Shoe Fits' , excellent little book.

[Wells]

The equation for a "strong energy cultivation" is IN EVERY SYSTEM the same:

• Mind + Life = Power
  
• Yi + Chi = Jing (= Yuan Chi btw.!)
  

What does that mean? Well, Waysun Liao says that you taichi exercise is like an oven.

Your chi is what you want to cook in your oven, "the high-frequenzy energy of your Mind is the Heat" (QUOTE!).

YOU INCREASE THE AMPLITUDE (="MASS") AND THE FREQUENZY (="DENSITY") OF YOUR CHI BY INFUSING YOUR MIND ENERGY IN IT! This "JING" = "Internal POWER" is a fusion of your Mind-Energy and your Life-Energy and therefore controllable by your mind! This JING is also YUAN-CHI, PRE-BIRTH CHI or PRIMAL/PRIMORDIAL CHI! So it's in fact not a fusion but a RE-fusion! Big surprise, the fusion of "water" and "fire" into "steam", the big goal of Taoist Alchemy, that's it!!

 

...and, to all Mo-Pai Lovers: you REALLY think that by concentrating deep into your body into your dantian (and doing reverse-breathing) you will somehow (by the grace of god maybe?) pull heaven-chi (& earth-chi) into your body??? Re-read what I have written above and think sharply about that....!

Maybe you should read some Taoist alchemy Classics translated by Eva Wong, eh!

ALSO: WHY CAN TAICHI MASTERS DO FA-SHEN (transferring power through space without touching you) WITHOUT EVER HAVING MEDITATED WITH THEIR ASSES ON THE EARTH??? Because it's simply a question of FREQUENZY and AMPLITUDE to transfer power through space! No "Yin"-Chi needed, guys! When you came beyond Jing to Shen, then you can do it!

 

Let's quote Temple Style Taichi Master Gregory James:

It takes a long time to develop Jing (Internal Power). The Yi (Mind) must completely fuse to the Chi so that the Jing Signal can be amplified and accelerated. Then you will understand how to put a Message into that Signal. If you don't know how, you don't yet have Jing. Keep Practicing.

 

Understand that although Jing can be used to produce Power in martial arts or other special applications, the Ultimate Purpose for the development of Jing is to Transform and Enlighten yourself. In the Tai Chi Moving Meditation Practice, the Chi is exercised and begins to Purify as the Mind gains an extremely sharp awareness of this. Eventually, the body, breath, Mind and Chi move together as One. When this process is further Purified, the Mind and Chi fuse together to generate Jing. This is a completely new kind of Energy within yourself that was not there before. The ingredients were always there, but the Process must be properly engaged in order to Transform Mind and Chi into Jing. This is very much like forging steel from raw iron using heat. Once the iron is heated to a very high temperature, it becomes malleable and can be hammered thin, folded into itself, and ultimately purified and strengthened. After many, many repetitions of being heated, hammered, folded, and then rapidly cooled in water, the iron totally transforms into a new kind of material we call steel. In other words, although the heat, water, and raw iron were already present, a significant and skillful process must be engaged in order to transform the iron into steel. Likewise, the Jing takes time and sincere, dedicated effort to generate.

 

Once Jing is generated, it is your choice how to use it. But it is a waste if you use it only for simple tricks like making light in your hands, etc. Instead, Recycle the Jing Signal back Inward into itself through the Cyclic Moving Meditation Practice so as to Purify it further, generate a great surplus of Energy, and use this very Pure, very Powerful Jing Energy to Transform again to Realize and Ignite the Shen Energy (Spirit). Then further Purify the Shen Energy to Realize the Te––the Ultimate No-Self, the "piece of Tao inside." We then use Te to Connect to Tao.

 

So the order of things is: Chi, Yi (Mind), Jing, Shen, Te. There is no particular exercise that will develop Jing faster than another. Correct understanding and practice of the Taichi Tao system as a whole is the process that develops the Connection to Tao.

 

Jing, Shen, TE are just "reference points", in fact you just increase more and more the amplitude and frequenzy of your Mind+Chi-Mix!

Edited November 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[MERCELESS ONE]

Hey merceless, I was wondering in some other thread you mentioned "going from level 4-8"

1. Are you serious?

2. I feel sorry for your opponents in mixed martial arts if you are even above "level 2".

 

yes, i am serious! im now lvl 10energy and i must say its amazing. if ppl only knew lol. im here looking for ppl who may have figured out what i hav but so far noone. and ill soon be leaving this site for good but looking for those who truly want to know this information. alot say they do but wont even practice. and for those who see alot of my posts i mention practice often because thats the only way to get to where i am. hell i can train somone to get to mixing in two yrs. how do you think lau sifu made it to 1-15 in 5 yrs.

[MERCELESS ONE]

^{the electric like jing skills, come from mixing yin and yang. in the video he is mixing yin and yang while healing those ppl. mixing and directing the current into them.}

[Thunder_Gooch]

Merceless One,

 

Would you mind telling us how you came by instruction past level 2a, and how you managed to advance faster than master john chang himself?

[seiko]

Teacher, method, student.

 

If someone practiced Zhan Zhuang correctly for 2 hours straight every day for 3-5 years, In my opinion they would be a transformed person, very powerful.

The problem is many people these days are learning from a book, so for many people this is not adequate to practice correctly. In this case the more devoted the student the bigger mess they MIGHT get themselves in, due to extensive practice in a harmful manner.

 

So when you get an excellent teacher with an excellent practice and an excellent student, that is a recipe for success.

 

Two hours zhanh zhuang seems to be the very minimum for most powerful schools. When i hear people talk about 10 and 20 minutes i just shake my head in amazement, how on earth do these people ever hope to progress training so weakly. The master will also say...If you drop your hands you break the energy and have to start over from scratch. Thats why most people give up becos its simply too hard and feels like your going insane slowly lol. When your traning at this level , for these amounts of time, you really do become disconnected with the world and other human beings, you become very numb to everything and start losing your natural feelings etc. There was a well known master who told me if you do zhan zhuang for 17 or 18 hours nonstop (i forget the exact time) then your entire spiritual being and internal energy system will be transformed. You will only ever get back what you put in. Most people today could never train that way, but some do it everyday.

Edited November 7, 2012 by seiko

[Shagrath]

The equation for a "strong energy cultivation" is IN EVERY SYSTEM the same:

• Mind + Life = Power
  
• Yi + Chi = Jing (= Yuan Chi btw.!)
  

What does that mean? Well, Waysun Liao says that you taichi exercise is like an oven.

Your chi is what you want to cook in your oven, "the high-frequenzy energy of your Mind is the Heat" (QUOTE!).

YOU INCREASE THE AMPLITUDE (="MASS") AND THE FREQUENZY (="DENSITY") OF YOUR CHI BY INFUSING YOUR MIND ENERGY IN IT! This "JING" = "Internal POWER" is a fusion of your Mind-Energy and your Life-Energy and therefore controllable by your mind! This JING is also YUAN-CHI, PRE-BIRTH CHI or PRIMAL/PRIMORDIAL CHI! So it's in fact not a fusion but a RE-fusion! Big surprise, the fusion of "water" and "fire" into "steam", the big goal of Taoist Alchemy, that's it!!

 

...and, to all Mo-Pai Lovers: you REALLY think that by concentrating deep into your body into your dantian (and doing reverse-breathing) you will somehow (by the grace of god maybe?) pull heaven-chi (& earth-chi) into your body??? Re-read what I have written above and think sharply about that....!

Maybe you should read some Taoist alchemy Classics translated by Eva Wong, eh!

ALSO: WHY CAN TAICHI MASTERS DO FA-SHEN (transferring power through space without touching you) WITHOUT EVER HAVING MEDITATED WITH THEIR ASSES ON THE EARTH??? Because it's simply a question of FREQUENZY and AMPLITUDE to transfer power through space! No "Yin"-Chi needed, guys! When you came beyond Jing to Shen, then you can do it!

 

Jing, Shen, TE are just "reference points", in fact you just increase more and more the amplitude and frequenzy of your Mind+Chi-Mix!

 

Thanks Dorian Black. It sounds simple, but that doesn't mean it easy How can somebody do what you wrote? With doing Tai Chi regularly? Do you recommend some books? Teacher?

[MERCELESS ONE]

Merceless One,

 

Would you mind telling us how you came by instruction past level 2a, and how you managed to advance faster than master john chang himself?

 

im not past john chang , chang is pas 20. hell in the early eighties he was 20. that was 30 yrs ago. i was born in 83. who knows what lvl hes at now. ive been practicing chi kung nei kung for 10 yrs. in the book when he mentioned what the practices were used for it made sense to me. fill the dantien, compress the dantien, move the dantien, and mix with yin. well that seems like alot. so i filled up the dantien, after i figured out how to fill it properly. and started compressing it. after figuring out how to compress it properly i realized i could already move it due to my other practices. so i attempted mixing. mind you all this is over a 2 yr period. it wasnt instant. so i attempted mixing...i mixed. small voltages of electricity shot through my lower abdomen. i was scared cause john chang said he passed out . so didnt know what will happen. but nothing, that was it. later i realized i didnt have enough yang compressed to get the rite charge. so i had to back train. build up to full power level four. it took months. but i got it. and from what i felt when i mixed the first time it can get dangerous the more yang you compress. so after building up to full power lvl four i noticed key things like the dantien field expanding. at over 1000 compressions of lifeforce the field was just over arms length away from my body. now its about 7ft away fully charged. now what i mean by compressions is when you do the abdominal breathing while mixing yin and yang and compress the energy into your body, you feel it compress into your body. so many breaths your body fills up completly. and then starts over. so over 1k and the dantien field was over my full body. and when i did double that a new field emerged or as i thought a new energy density lvl. and now im at lvl 10 from practicing wht ive figured out from all ive learned. so what you are trying to make a joke about is really sad. and thats why i say lvl 10 energy i dont konw mo pai forms dont need them. as its been said there are other forms that its similar to. hell kundalini yoga is one of them. which ive been practicing since i was 16. you really want to know how i figured it out... i learn pracitce and pay attention to all knowledge i come across and used it all to create a powerful system that allowed me to learn how to mix yin and yang. while you are still bitching about lvl 2a.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I am just curious how you figured out the secrets of the mo pai school past 2a with no instruction, assuming you figured out up to 4 with guesswork, then you made it to level 10 when no one knows what anything past level 4 entails in theory even?

 

You are able to live a normal lifestyle and blow through training with no teacher or even a valid theory of anything higher than level 4.

 

Yeah sorry dude you sound just like someone else I know who runs a mo pai forum giving people fake instruction.

 

You have to make conscious choices regarding your lifestyle. For example, to complete Level Four, I left my home and went into the jungle for a year. I did this in order to reach a state of total calm. I reverted to the primitive; this is most important. Your mind must be utterly still for yang and yin to come together.

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Jav (p. 97)

[MERCELESS ONE]

I am just curious how you figured out the secrets of the mo pai school past 2a with no instruction, assuming you figured out up to 4 with guesswork, then you made it to level 10 when no one knows what anything past level 4 entails in theory even?

 

You are able to live a normal lifestyle and blow through training with no teacher or even a valid theory of anything higher than level 4.

 

Yeah sorry dude you sound just like someone else I know who runs a mo pai forum giving people fake instruction.

 

well to start i reached stillness of mind in my youth. and carried it over to my adult life. im not new to this. if john chang had to go to the forest what makes you think i have to? my house is quiet! i live alone i dont have noise. and i dont teach mo pai for starters. and i teach a mixture of techniques that can build one to the level of mixing yin and yang. the naunces of the process from lvl 1-4 are many and you will only know them when and if you practice the meditations. you seem to get caught up in the forms. but ther are other systems with knowledge pas lvl four. one is kundalini yoga. and im not here to prove to you what i know im comfortable with knowing im rare in the fact that i figured it out. hell im not the only one my twin is pass lvl 4 as well. and ill be walking one of my friends through mixing next month. i dont care if you believe me or not. i dont need your approval to know my capibilities. if i sound similar to somone you know selling fake info thats cool. you sound like many i know and down the knowledge without even trying it out or understanding. but thats your choice. it was said even in the book that some ppl would be able to figure it out with the techniques that were given. but since you are settled on noone can know what you have no clue about i guessi cant figure out what you have no clue about. or did i?

[seiko]

edit..

Edited November 7, 2012 by seiko

[MERCELESS ONE]

I am just curious how you figured out the secrets of the mo pai school past 2a with no instruction, assuming you figured out up to 4 with guesswork, then you made it to level 10 when no one knows what anything past level 4 entails in theory even?

 

You are able to live a normal lifestyle and blow through training with no teacher or even a valid theory of anything higher than level 4.

 

Yeah sorry dude you sound just like someone else I know who runs a mo pai forum giving people fake instruction.

 

and another thing is im not selling anything, i give my knowledge freely! this is knowlledge of the soul the spirit. that makes it priceless. the only thing i would require of those i would teach is that you take it as serious as beathing! because this is my breath and my life and ill waste them on noone!!

[Thunder_Gooch]

and another thing is im not selling anything, i give my knowledge freely! this is knowlledge of the soul the spirit. that makes it priceless. the only thing i would require of those i would teach is that you take it as serious as beathing! because this is my breath and my life and ill waste them on noone!!

 

 

You know, when you are at Level Four, you have to sweat and struggle for fifteen minutes for the power to come out. It was when I finished with Level Five that I began to use it.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus Of Java (p. 98)

 

 

If you are level 10 you should easily be able to demo abilities like these:

 

Edited November 7, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[GrandmasterP]

With cultivation it is not what comes out of it but what goes into it.

Merceless old chap you would be most welcome to please call at our centre (see website at my profile) if ever you are in this part of the forest.

A day without learning is a day wasted and much could be learnt. We have so few visitors of such high level cultivation as your own.

[MERCELESS ONE]

If you are level 10 you should easily be able to demo abilities like these:

 

 

im not knocking what your saying but u dont know the levels of power. also john chang had alot more yang built up when he mixed yin and yang than when i did it. and it would take till lvl five to get used to the power if you do it rite. i didnt i mixed early. and didnt get used to the little energy i felt till halfway to full power lvl four. and from my calculations of how fast and powerful the energy moves at my current level of density i got 5 levels to got till i see anything cool. its becaue of the ammount o voltage produced. and my calculations seem to be accurate. from the fact that john chang says he uses less than one percent of his energy to heal ppl. and if you seen the video you saw how they were moving. well whats 1% of 1300v of electricity. thats how much voltage one can put out at lvl20. at my lvl almost at lvl 11 a little over 2v. nothing to gawk at. and my healing is limited. limited by my energy. so take this most humans give off a static charg of 0.01v of electricity. at lvl 4 that doubles. double it up to lvl 72. an you will see what i mean. also to note if you want to know the healing powers of the voltage lvls look up dr hulda clark. she has done research on pathogens and parasites and electric fields and at what voltages can kill them. also mixing is only one part of whats after lvl four. after that comes the practice of whats known as druming the chi. or changing the freqincey of the energy. im still getting better at this!

[Thunder_Gooch]

im not knocking what your saying but u dont know the levels of power. also john chang had alot more yang built up when he mixed yin and yang than when i did it. and it would take till lvl five to get used to the power if you do it rite. i didnt i mixed early. and didnt get used to the little energy i felt till halfway to full power lvl four. and from my calculations of how fast and powerful the energy moves at my current level of density i got 5 levels to got till i see anything cool. its becaue of the ammount o voltage produced. and my calculations seem to be accurate. from the fact that john chang says he uses less than one percent of his energy to heal ppl. and if you seen the video you saw how they were moving. well whats 1% of 1300v of electricity. thats how much voltage one can put out at lvl20. at my lvl almost at lvl 11 a little over 2v. nothing to gawk at. and my healing is limited. limited by my energy. so take this most humans give off a static charg of 0.01v of electricity. at lvl 4 that doubles. double it up to lvl 72. an you will see what i mean. also to note if you want to know the healing powers of the voltage lvls look up dr hulda clark. she has done research on pathogens and parasites and electric fields and at what voltages can kill them. also mixing is only one part of whats after lvl four. after that comes the practice of whats known as druming the chi. or changing the freqincey of the energy. im still getting better at this!

 

 

 

[MERCELESS ONE]

lol

[Isimsiz Biri]

In my opinion there is nothing to like or dislike. You agree with his words or not. He had matured consciousness and he was having fun. In one speech he talks about open marriages and in another he speaks about monogamy And in both cases he is right. It all depends from which angle he is talking. Before he died he said that everything he said in his life was a lie because you cannot describe Truth.

 

I am really not in a mood to discuss Osho. In my opinion, truth is one. You can not defend open marriage and monogamy at the same time, Good and bad are very obvious. Negative side likes to mix human's minds a lot. Be careful.

 

 

It's not that I disbelieve its more that I am careful what to believe in. For example lots of students of my teacher are saying lots of information about him, what he said on some subject, what he did, etc. And when you ask him is that true, on 99% cases he said that is bulls**t he never said that. And then when I asked my friends and other students why the lied they said because if the say teacher said its more believable.

Another kind of experiences that I had is in martial arts. My friends who are 4th-6th DAN in aikido and Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu said stories that in seminars with some famous masters the master demonstrated to them how he can mentaly stop their attack and he stopped everybody in the room. Next seminar he also did that and I also tried but he couldn't stop me and he got a punch in his face. Why? Because I don't have any subconscious belief that he is above me, better than me and I don;t consider his ultimate master as 99% of people present did. Lot of energy sensations and experiences with teachers are placebo. Watch movie Kumare.

My teacher always said "Do not believe nor disbelieve, always check."

So am not saying that there are no true masters, I would really like to meet them and train under them, but I am not buying every story about them.

 

I really agree that there are many charlatans out there. I recall the youtube video called "Kiai Master Yanagikuryen vs MMA" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I) describing exactly the same situation you mentioned.

 

Please believe that Yin-Yang Gong is such a thing that is very authentic and when you feel it, you instantaneously understand that it is something very very unusual and it is not a trick. But true masters are very very seldom.

 

I agree with your master, "Always check"

Edited November 8, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[Ish]

There's no point in talking in levels merceless its just deceiving people to think you're practicing Mo Pai.

Doesn't make your training any less valuable, its just not Mo Pai.

[MERCELESS ONE]

There's no point in talking in levels merceless its just deceiving people to think you're practicing Mo Pai.

Doesn't make your training any less valuable, its just not Mo Pai.

 

true, but i havent come up with another way to explain density. the levels are designed to show and explain density of energy. so i use level to explain this. every new level is different in ability because of the chakra charge. its double what it was last. i guess i should work on that! i say level because once the energy doubles the density of energy can be felt. its like a nother level! so maybe ill keep that. to me its the best way to explaint it. stack a pyramid upside down and each level is greater than the last. and in this case double the last . unless somone can come up with another way to explain it! cause im at a loss! but i have thought about taking that out all to gether. but i dont care if its mo pai or not it works for what im creating.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Edited November 8, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[MERCELESS ONE]

 

lol

[Wells]

Thanks Dorian Black. It sounds simple, but that doesn't mean it easy How can somebody do what you wrote? With doing Tai Chi regularly? Do you recommend some books? Teacher?

Yeah, I recommend the Old-School/Martial-Arts way of Temple Style Taichi as taught in the 70's by Grandmaster Waysun Liao in Chicago! Waysun Liao wrote a great book about it's theory in the 70's, the "Taichi Classics". It's the most-sold book about Taichi in the world btw. The second book I would recommend to you is "Tao - The way of God", also written by Waysun Liao.

These books will explain to you the theory behind true internal alchemy.

But Waysun Liao doesn't teach this Nei Kung exercises anymore...at least not openly and not with his DVD's.

The only remaining source for sale is Gary J. Clyman's "Mind Light Nei Kung" Set, his own "streamlined" and into workouts organized version of the Temple Style Taichi Nei Kung system that he learned. You can buy it on his website Chikung.com for $3.450. It contains the following items:

-Tidal Wave Chi Kung DVD set (2 DVD's, around 3 hours. Here you learn essential Nei Kung exercises from the temple style taichi system and then you get the "Daily practice routine" where you can do this exercises, condensed in 28 minutes. Every Chi Kung system is always a small piece of a bigger Nei Kung system...at least it's the case with temple style. They are true Nei Kung exercises but not the whole system.)

-Gold Sash DVD (1 DVD with a Tai Chi workout)

-Green Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1hour, with the exercises you will use to project jing, once you have it...Liao talks shortly about these in the taichi classics book in the chapter "How to transfer (project) internal power")

-Blue Sash DVD (1 DVD, around 1,5 hours, where you learn the rest of the internal Nei Kung exercises)

- and finally: 2 DVD's with the 4 one hour Nei Kung routines A,B,C,D. You then rotate these routines and they will lead you to Jing and beyond...they include all the internal Nei Kung exercises of the temple style taichi system.

-The Nei Kung Bible: All the internal exercises explained in form of photoshopped photos with Gary. It helps very much in understanding what he does on his Nei Kung DVD'S but I would clearly NOT suggest you to buy the Nei Kung Bible ONLY! I couldn't understand what and how to do the stuff by reading the bible. It's also much better to have Gary standing right in front of you on the screen, going with you through the exercises and motivating you to give your best, believe me that!

-the Chi Kung Bible: an older book of Gary about the PPT / Chi Kung training.

Also, back in the 70's under Liao, you first had to go through the entire Taichi moving meditation system and be perfect in it, then you had the chance to learn the precious Nei Kung stuff! Only Gary and a few other people made it this far. As far as I know, Gary fell from grace with Liao because he taught the precious Nei Kung stuff to people FIRST without grinding them through the Taichi stuff before!

 

All right, now some quotes of interest about Gary Clyman I gathered so far:

 

 

Testimonials for Gary J. Clyman's Internal Power & for the efficiency of his Mind Light Nei Kung system:

 

 

http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

There seems to be some confusion over Gary's statement and that's understandable. Gary isnt saying that the Chinese character for "chi" is what's in the characters of tai chi. He's saying that the actual manifestation of chi, the way he describes it, is what is involved in tai chi, or supposed to be anyway.

 

Gary will happily demonstrate on anyone who wants to doubt his training. His training isnt something to be overlooked or mocked. Hands down his system is the best system I've ever seen or trained in. Keep in mind that his teacher is Waysun Liao who is top notch.

I cant really speak for him. I have an opinion though, if it matters lol.

 

It's my understanding that when people actually project what they call "chi" that it's a more refined chi substance, jing. You can feel your own chi flow as I can feel my own chi flow but the vibration of my/your chi is on too high a level for me/you to project to me/you, unless it's been condensed through some sort of qigong, meditation, etc. That's Gary's say on it, I may have misquoted him or just completely fabricated that from poor memory but if I recall correctly that's how he sees it.

 

Personally I agree completely with Clyman. I also think that most qigong masters say what he says but maybe in a different way. Another way to view it (poor example warning) is like a big river or lake or whatever. The water source is great and all but if you build a dam then you can really use the source. Very poor example choice.

 

 

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http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

I guess when I see statements like that, it makes me question whether individuals like this truly know what they are talking about. These types of people then go on writing books on subjects as fascinating as Qigong and really don't understand what it is, teaching nonsense to students to make a quick buck.

 

I was able to get through about a third of the article as I do find it interesting reading. On a similar note, there was also a thread on this forum with Sifu Doucherty talking about Qi as if it was irrelevant.

 

Just makes me a bit sad to see people make comments of this sort as it truly discredits their expertise.

Of course he knows what hes talking about.His master was waysun liao, you can go and see him, punch him and kick him in the torso to test his iron shirt and ask him to discharge his jing into you.Have fun with your insides bouncing around and collapsing to the floor once he does it.He also has an interesting story to tell you about sifu wong kiew kit if you ask him.Im not going to say anything or go into details, but lets just say Mr clyman is not impressed with his level of expertise.

 

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http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

Ok let me clear some things up , ive read all of wong kiew kits books and i got bad deviations from his practices back in 2002. They lasted for years but i kept on practicing and practicing because i thought that the bad feelings were the chi clearing things out, not only that but i am aware that there are many others suffering deviations also. I did not insult him i stated that clyman did , but in reality he deserves my insults. He doesnt explain things clearly enough in his books and people have suffered.On to Gary now .I went to see Gary Clyman in person, he is everything he says he is and much more.I weigh 84 kilos(not fat) and punched him and his other top guys as hard as i could, ive trained with pro boxers and i can deliver a punch that will knock any man down.I delivered powerfull(liver and spleen) shots and they didnt tense up.When i punched Gary it felt like my wrist bent and could have snapped(he told me he could have snapped it if he wanted to) Not only that but his fa jing demonstrations were very impressive as was his emotional liposuction, he sent me flying with a light slap and i felt my insides bouncing around.Not only that but he said that he hadnt really hit me yet, I refused to test the next level off power.I have his entire system and he is superior to wong kiew kit by a 1000 lifetimes.That is my opinion and if it gets me kicked off then boo hoo hoo.I dont really care! Gary Clyman knows exactly what he is talking about and his stuff works way better than wongs.There are no insults just facts.GET OVER IT

 

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http://www.bullshido.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-5002.html

 

Yeah, I know Gary. He is a very good martial tai chi guy in Chicago. I've played with him a few times and he always wins very easily. He is big on meditation, but he also has the goods. He was orginally trained in martial tai chi, Temple Style I believe, and also knows shia chiao (I know I can't spell).

 

He is also one of the few practitioners I know who will demonstrate to anyone. He will gladly take anyone's punch to demonstrate the Golden Bell/Iron Shirt stuff. He also has very strong fa jing. Particularly for the non-believers out there if you want proof that this stuff work go to Chicago and ask him to discharge on you. I've never known any non-believer to ask twice.

 

Equally impressive his students can all also do the Golden Bell stuff. His good students can also discharge.

 

Hell, he sent me flying into a brick wall with only four fingers and I weighted almost 100kg at the time.

 

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Very funny. Ask him to punch you using the jing. The sensation is quite amazing and depends on the the typle of jing used. You will go flying.

 

While there are many frauds among the tai chi guys. Gary is one of the few who actually has it.

 

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http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

Yes I've seen Gary do this to a variety of people all of whom had fighting experience. He has done it to me (judo, budotaijitsu, shotokan, boxing and alot of military unarmed combat stuff). I watched him do it to a 5th dan Jeet Kun Do guy who was about 215 lbs and a tad over six feet tall, and an experience boxer in the middle of a match, as well as a few other guys.

 

To answer the other person, jing is a chinese medical and meditative term that means something like cultivated essense. In fa jing this cultivated essense, which takes years to get apparently, is disharged out of the fighter into the target. It feels like you are getting hit with a brick.

 

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http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

Gary has his opinions on the meditative side of the art, but he can back it up on the street. One of the nice things is that he is willing to demonstrate this on anyone who shows up.

 

I would suggest you call or go visit him in Chicago if you want to see a tai chi guy who has it. He is outspoken, but very friendly. And not in the weird ass cult/I am the master of the universe way that many of the frauds in this form present themselves.

 

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http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?8776-What-are-your-thoughts-on-Gary-J-Clyman

 

Sam,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the sincerity. Gary is also a very skilled meditator and accupuncturist with about 30 years of experience. I've spent a few days, on a couple of different occaisions, following him around his accupuncture practice and he is very impressive in his treatment of patients. I can't speak to AIDS patients, but based off of his record in treating other people I don't think it is unreasonable that he can help with an immune system dysfunction or health in general.

 

I got interested in the healing modalities after breaking my back in a skydiving accident about 2 1/2 years ago. After one treatment Gary took me from 50% to about 80 to 85% despite having done all the other rehabilitative/drug thearapies offered by conventional medicine. I have also seen him help people with circulatory and respiratory problems dramatically. As well as treating people who were suffering from mental and psychological problems as well with good results using the emotional liposuction techniqes.

 

In a world of frauds in the meditative/martial arts communities he is one of the few I have seen who had credibility in person. He is very honest about his abilities and will be the first to tell you if he cannot do something. Addtionally all of his stuff is solidly built off of technique and practice. No mythical nonsense. Everything is you do A and you get B. He is also open about the fact that his ability to do any of this is based off of lots of experimentation, good teachers, and years of spending several hours a day working on all of this. People out there can do some of this stuff, but the amount of effort required to do so is extreme and built over time. His techniques and training timelines closely mirror what I have seen among the few other credible practitioners I have met over the years and correspond to my own experiences which came from outside their systems.

 

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http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1899

 

I know Gary Clyman quite well. While his personality sets alot of people off he has some of the best martial tai chi I've ever seen. If you are in Chicago and want to see what real tai chi looks like go see Clyman. I never met anyone half as good while in living in Beijing.

 

BTW, Waysun Liao is no longer teaching the material he taught to Gary. As often happens as teachers age they find a new focus for their efforts. If you want to get the martial side of tai chi from Waysun's lineage you'll need to see Gary. Gary is very honest about what he is and is not capable of doing and I've never met anyone who doubted his skills who actually met him. Many people do not like Gary because of his personality. Too bad for them. I've often seen Gary repair the damage caused by other less concerned teachers and I've never seen him permanently hurt anyone either.

 

Out of a handful of teachers I've met who "had the goods" he is one of the most giving and certainly more concerned with his students' well being than most. He is quite intense. That is the reason why he is good at what he does. That said he is neither crazy or dangerous to the people around him. He just despises time wasters and chases them off. That cannot be said of all of the people I have studied with.

 

We all like to think that our teachers should be paradigms of virtue, have the wisdom of warrior sages and an angelic outward appearance. Reality rarely comes across that way. Several of my teachers completely terrified me and I often wondered if I would survive their training. Gary for example has never beaten me unconscious. The same cannot be said of a female teacher of mine who sits just over five feet tall and weights in at under 100 pounds. Likewise, the closest I ever came to death during training happened while going through a particularly intense series of trials at the hands of an angelic senior citizen that primarily practiced a school whose focus is out of body projection. It always surprises me when others meet these folks and are completely freaked out.

 

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http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67552&page=16

 

I have met at least a dozen or more of Liaos's students including those who have been practicing for over 30 years. It looks like this to me:

 

20 years ago or more he was teaching good stuff. I haven't seen any students who have been with him for less than 10-15 years who have in significant skill. Some of the older guys are really good and really nice. I know the training is very different than it used to be, because the older guys told me so.

 

The newer students seem to be way way off in some fantasy land. The older ones seem to have some base in reality. I don't think Liao actually teaches any Taichi anymore. If he does, just barely. It's all student teaching.

 

I think anyone with a solid six months of Jiujitsu could take out virtually any of the students who have less than ten years of taichi practice under there belts.

 

Even the guys who have been with him for over 20 years still say he hasn't given them everything which is very interesting since Liao himself was in training for less than 10.

 

I have touched hands in a teaching environment with Liao about half a dozen times. He is really really good! And, yes soft like a willow. Truely amazing. Very powerful.

 

To Liao, from his mouth, as I understood him say it, the purpose of taichi is to purify and return to the Mother, the Dao itself. I believe that is true.

 

It is also a nice excuse for students who don't want to face reality. They can just pretend that their taichi is good because they are "returning to the Dao." When someone puts them on the ground or into the wall they can respond with "That was really physical," or "Taichi is not a martial art," or any other nonsense that will help them justify the fact that they don't have anything to show for their training. I feel really sad for them. Especially because Liao is so good.

 

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Quote: Dorian Black

My friend and Thetaobums-member LittlePie took part in Gary Clyman's „Personal Power Training“ and tested Gary's Jing: Gary touched him slightly on the shoulder and LittlePie went down like "hit by a sledge-hammer". Gary told him that he only used ONE vibration...he could have used HUNDREDS if he wanted to.

 

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thetaobums member rodgerj testimonial:

 

 

Q: Lol, howd the Gary Clyman work for ya??

 

A: I have seen lots of people diss him and it's understandable. When I first spoke with him I nearly flew out to Chicago to fight him as he called me a looser. But he is actually a nice guy. Everyone has a personality and some are more eccentric then others. If we let our own pride and arrogance get in the way we could miss something valuable.

 

His training works. When I say it works I am talking about lightning in your arms. You want Jing or power for Martial Arts this will deliver. It seems to be mechanical in that you get just what you put in. I have met him and tested his Fa Jing and he has it for sure. At the time I was 240+ pounds and he made me leave the ground and hit a wall.

 

One thing to remember is that when he is presenting is Waysun Liao's entire system. This alone for me was a reason to train. I thought.... 'I can spend the next 20 years of my life to get some of this info from Master liao or I can get it all now' This is a wrong attitude but It was a long while ago and I was a bit younger.

 

To put in short.... you fill the dantien, burn some pathways, open up your channels, vibrate the energy and more. I remember when I first got some effects.... I had been feeling 'heat' and tingling' for ages. Threshold stuff. Then one day while training suddenly my arms felt like I was literally holding power lines. This grew to be everywhere. After, I noticed that when not training if I got emotional it would start im my arms on it's own. If I hit something a freakin lightning bolt would fly down my arm and out of my hand.

 

The focus in on the dantien. As well as the Chi Kung and Nei Kung there are other meditations like uprooting and sinking jing or Tai Chi connective meditations. It is powerful stuff. I do not do it anymore though because it does not mix with what I do. It is great for Martial arts as it covers Golden Bell etc.... In fact Grandmaster Gene Chicoine and a student of his met him. The student tried his Iron Palm on Master Clyman and just hurt is hand. Grandmaster Ch'ang Tung Sheng punched him in the face while he just laughed (to test his gold bell)

 

I could go on for ages but I can't really right now. I will answer any questions from PM's. Lastly though I will say that for those that think him charging $3000 for his Nei Kung is outrageous.... think about it.... this is 20 years or knowledge that you can get only two ways. Train 20 years or pay up. I will warn that there is a reason that this knowledge is given over time and not to jump into advanced stuff without a foundation! take time with it.

 

Before anyone criticizes I would say have the balls to do it to his face. Then come here you will have the right to comment. It's like a crazy man holding a bag of gold coins. You may think he is crazy and be put off by his madness but he still has the bag of gold coins. (I am not saying Gary is crazy BTW! he is a nice guy).

 

 

Q: Does anyone know if you can practice the Clyman dvd's and still practice Kunlun? Not back to back of course.

 

A: Errr that depends but the short answer is no. The reason for this is mostly because you cannot do MCO and Kunlun. At least, in the beginning you can't. Gary's system is huge, there is a lot in there. There are elements that you can put with Kunlun but it depends how long you have been doing Kunlun. In both of these methods there is an internal alchemy that is taking place. A very different one!

 

In the Chi Kung of Gary's system you collect and condense energy to create the alchemical agent that is then circulated via the micro and macro orbits. When you get to the Nei Kung then that shit is a whole other level! Certain vibratory meditations are used to accelerate the vibration of the Jing you have created. This kind of stuff would not mix with Kunlun and I would not put them together.

 

This does not mean you cold not do them both though. You have to wait for one alchemy to finish before you attempt another, and your goal is the deciding factor in what type of method you choose. You find this even within certain schools such as Grand Master Doo Wai's. You cannot train for healing and ging and the same time as your cultivating different energy. Opposites almost....

 

 

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TTB member forestofsouls talks about his encounter with Waysun Liao here:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/2126-actual-manifestation-of-chi/

 

I was perusing the John Chang thread recently, and it made me wonder: how many people out there have actually met some one who could provide a real, demonstrable manifestation of chi or chi-like phenomenon? I think that Mr. Denty is right: once you taste the real thing, there's no doubt whatsoever. Personally, I've met two.

The most powerful was Master Waysun Liao.

 

When I met Master Liao, I wanted to "test" him. We've all seen those martial arts demonstrations where the so-called master demonstartes mystical techniques on people of their own choosing. I had this in mind and wanted to test ML. Much to my surprise, he ASKED me to test him. At one point, I had my body wedged between the floor and his arm trying to keep him from lowering it, all to no avail. But the real kicker is when he was demonstrating how chi should feel when one is practicing correctly. Make no mistake, this stuff is as far from imagination as the law of gravity.

 

What we did was we all gathered in a circle. Master Liao had us put our hands out in the tai chi ball stance, which is standing shoulder width apart, with our palms facing one another, perpendicular to the floor. Sort of like holding a beach ball in front of you. He placed his hands around my hands, without touching. Then he said, let me know when you feel something.

 

Mind you, I was a chi skeptic at this time. I could feel vague light buzzings, but nothing substantial.

 

What I did was try to keep an open, empty mind and a relaxed body. I was curious, but quite sceptical. What happened was it felt like suddenly I was hooked up to a power generator. When I was younger, I once grabbed a refrigerator that wasn't fully grounded, and was mildly electocuted. It was similar, but it felt good. It started out vague, then I felt a lot of pressure as though I was submerged under water. I said nothing, and the feelings got very strong. Then the pressure gave way and it felt like liquid electicity was flowing throughout my body, and it felt as real and vivid as an oak table. I also felt my lower dan tien and upper dan tien swelling and opening, and it was ecstatic. It also felt like there was a fine electrical wire connecting the two dan tiens. I felt giddy and high, and couldn't stop smiling. It also felt there was an actual ball between my hands.

 

The main thought I had was "Oh my God I can't beleive this is real!"

 

Master Liao said that the object was to cultivate oneself so that one could feel that way without a master "charging you up".

 

To some extent, we all feel chi: when we are well rested and feel alive. But this was magnified many times over. I would say chi is energy, much like electrical energy. I've been told that some people can hear it, some people can see it, but most feel it. When talking about chi, I mean feeling electrical energy with no technological source that feels as vivid as physical objects.

 

I agree with what you say, T. I firmly believe that most of the stuff on chi out there is imagined, wrong, or mistaken. Which is why I wanted to start a thread, to try to separate out the phonies. Now I'm not saying that Master Liao is the ONLY possible source of authentic chi exercises, just one. I think Wong Kiew Kit may be another, but I don't have direct experience and so I can't say. I hear Yan Xin does some amazing things, but once again, I don't have direct experience of it.

&nbs

p;

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http://thetaobums.com/topic/28421-nei-kung/?p=438989

Water and Spirit

Gary Clymans stuff is the real deal. I am qualified to make that statement because I purchased his Tidal Wave chi Kung and Mind Light Nei Kung.

 

It changed my life for the better. I do it everyday. It made me more graceful, think faster, I feel less tired, I feel more effective at work and at home. I feel more powerful. It really helped me to gather chi at Tan Tien and circulate it.

 

Dorian Black knows what he is talking about.

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http://thetaobums.com/topic/28356-here-because-of-gary-clyman/?p=432133

ssmith7

Hello Tao Bums World,

I am a young taoist pursuing the way. I have decided to join this forum because of a promise I made to Gary Clyman in exchange for showing me his techniques. He said that if his stuff was for real, then I should post on the Tao bums to tell all those "assholes" it was for real.

Now, I am not Clyman. I was not hypnotized by Clyman. I do not care if anyone takes classes or receives information from Clyman. I am not one of Clyman's students. All that said, the guy is legitimate. You may call him an asshole. I probably would. But, he has powerful internal power. He threw me against a wall with one wave of long power, on the floor, and gave me several punches each with a different feeling in the chest/stomach. These 5 strikes corresponded with the five elements (wood, Earth, water, fire, and metal). He named them before he hit me. I know that what he showed me was real because I had experienced other Tai Chi artists do similar demonstrations of power to me. Clyman's was just more of the internal power.

Regardless of what you think about the man, please remember that the Tao gives rise to both pleasant and unpleasant personalities. I believe Gary Clyman is a good person. His approach and way of speaking may offend some sensibilities, but the guy knows what he is talking about. He is open to demonstrations, he has nothing to lose.

 

 

That is my peace. I am happy to be apart of the Tao Bum community.

 

 

Peace,

Shawn

 

Testimonials for Gary Clyman's amazing healing abilities, which he developed with his Mind Light Nei Kung training:

 

Some of the many impressive testimonials for Gary Clyman on youtube ( for Emotional Liposuction, Chiropractic treatment, Nei Kung, Chi Kung), which clearly prove his awesome healing powers in many areas (spiritual, emotional & physical):

 

Edited June 12, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

Some videos of Taichi Masters demonstrating Fa-Jing (or Fajin, transfer of power with physical contact to the opponent) AND Fa-Shen or "distance power", transfer of power through space without touching the opponent!!! According to Mo Pai theory, this should only be able after doing seated meditation to gather Yin/Earth-Chi AND achieving "Yin-Yang-Gong"! Well, think again:
 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Wells