Is this Mo Pai Level 1 ?

[ralis]

Glenn Mullin's books go into detail as to the procedure. Also Chang's work on the 6 yoga's is helpful.

[Ish]

Yes do you have page numbers?

 

On my Kindle its Page 131. Or Chapter 17.

I remember clearly from reading this book and "The Practice of the Six Yogas of Naropa" that the instructions for practice are basically all there. But still they stress the importance of the transmission from a Guru and also doing the preliminaries. Whether you heed that is up to you.

[Ish]

Glenn Mullin's books go into detail as to the procedure. Also Chang's work on the 6 yoga's is helpful.

 

Yes Glenn Mullin's book is very good

[Edward M]

Does this help: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/ettt/index.htm

 

Peace

[Thunder_Gooch]

I went back and reread it, none of these translations contain what I would consider actual instruction.

Edited November 9, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[ralis]

The problem is that most of what is taught is nothing more than culture baggage and belief systems that are not relevant to the actual practice. I went through this problem back in the 80's with the Tibetan Lama's.

[thunderindo]

.

Edited September 20, 2013 by thunderindo

[Ish]

I went back and reread it, none of these translations contain what I would consider actual instruction.

 

I'm surprised.

[flyinghigh]

...

Edited March 19, 2020 by flyinghigh

[Thunder_Gooch]

If one wishes to end the cycle of rebirth, reaching level 30 or higher in the mo pai is one of the only possible ways to do that, there may be a few other schools with reasonable facsimiles, but they aren't taught openly or known to the general public.

 

Achieving enlightenment in a Buddhist sense doesn't break the cycle of rebirth.

 

 

 

 

I think it's worth to take a few minutes and ponder the implications of the Mopai school.

Of course with the Blair's videos of Master John Chang and his display of his powers as well as his seemingly very friendly and open nature and after that Kosta's and Jim's books with more details we're all interested in learning more and learning the techniques.

It all seems very adventurous, hanging out in the jungle, having superpowers, etc.. Who wouldn't want to move/break something from a distance, be stronger than others? The childhood and teenager dreams of omnipotence becoming true.

You could be like Spiderman in the Hollywood movie, but in real life. Cool.

However, I think it's worth- as has been discussed a few times before- to ponder the results of this school and the behaviour of some of their seemingly highest proponents.

There doesn't seem to be a question that Mopai training will lead to immense powers. So it's a sort of qi strong man training. You cannot simply lift heavy stuff or bend iron rods but you can knock out people from a distance, etc.. Useful for fighting in the old days when bandits were roaming everywhere and money could be made protecting caravans.

And Master John Chang's helping of his fellow people over many years with his energy deserves the highest praise.

However, when it comes to achieving compassion, quietude of mind and heart, basically being free from the monkey mind, I cannot see this.

The main point is obviously the exclusion of students upon the criterion of race.

What is race anyways?

 

But anyways- what would you think of Harvard if they only let in say people of Aztec descent?

What if Christian church (they seem to be popular among the Indonesian Chinese people) would only let in Korean people?

Or what if Tibetan Buddhism barred Chinese people from becoming students?

So think about what club you want to become a member of. Of a club that is displaying a mind set that we had hoped was of yesterday, a thing of the past. Of the dark chapters of history of the mostly 20th century. A mindset that had people feel superior over others, start wars and commit the worst of atrocities?

In Kosta's it's mentioned that after completing all 72 levels it would eventually lead to enlightenment. Only two apparently have made it, not even clear whether by following this path. And the others- as much energy as they might have accumulated- seem to be as far away from enlightenment as you can imagine.

I prefer the mind set of the Tibetan monk who had been in Chinese prison for more than 10 years and after his final release said that at one point he nearly lost hope, because he had nearly lost his love for his torturer, the Chinese prison guard.

One of the highest truth, that is often repeated in many traditions, is that "all is one", that everything is from the same source. You'd think that a spiritually evolved person would catch a glimpse of that truth. But then the Mopai as it seems ultimately might not be about spirituality but rather about accumulation of energy which can then be used for fighting, healing and cool tricks.

I mean there are even people critical of having world championships in sports like the Olympics because they stress the separation of people along nationalities.

I also prefer John Lennon:

"Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion, too

 

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

 

You, you may say I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you will join us

And the world will be as one"

Edited November 9, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[templarmonk]

I think it's worth to take a few minutes and ponder the implications of the Mopai school.

Of course with the Blair's videos of Master John Chang and his display of his powers as well as his seemingly very friendly and open nature and after that Kosta's and Jim's books with more details we're all interested in learning more and learning the techniques.

It all seems very adventurous, hanging out in the jungle, having superpowers, etc.. Who wouldn't want to move/break something from a distance, be stronger than others? The childhood and teenager dreams of omnipotence becoming true.

You could be like Spiderman in the Hollywood movie, but in real life. Cool.

However, I think it's worth- as has been discussed a few times before- to ponder the results of this school and the behaviour of some of their seemingly highest proponents.

There doesn't seem to be a question that Mopai training will lead to immense powers. So it's a sort of qi strong man training. You cannot simply lift heavy stuff or bend iron rods but you can knock out people from a distance, etc.. Useful for fighting in the old days when bandits were roaming everywhere and money could be made protecting caravans.

And Master John Chang's helping of his fellow people over many years with his energy deserves the highest praise.

However, when it comes to achieving compassion, quietude of mind and heart, basically being free from the monkey mind, I cannot see this.

The main point is obviously the exclusion of students upon the criterion of race.

What is race anyways?

 

But anyways- what would you think of Harvard if they only let in say people of Aztec descent?

What if Christian church (they seem to be popular among the Indonesian Chinese people) would only let in Korean people?

Or what if Tibetan Buddhism barred Chinese people from becoming students?

So think about what club you want to become a member of. Of a club that is displaying a mind set that we had hoped was of yesterday, a thing of the past. Of the dark chapters of history of the mostly 20th century. A mindset that had people feel superior over others, start wars and commit the worst of atrocities?

In Kosta's it's mentioned that after completing all 72 levels it would eventually lead to enlightenment. Only two apparently have made it, not even clear whether by following this path. And the others- as much energy as they might have accumulated- seem to be as far away from enlightenment as you can imagine.

I prefer the mind set of the Tibetan monk who had been in Chinese prison for more than 10 years and after his final release said that at one point he nearly lost hope, because he had nearly lost his love for his torturer, the Chinese prison guard.

One of the highest truth, that is often repeated in many traditions, is that "all is one", that everything is from the same source. You'd think that a spiritually evolved person would catch a glimpse of that truth. But then the Mopai as it seems ultimately might not be about spirituality but rather about accumulation of energy which can then be used for fighting, healing and cool tricks.

I mean there are even people critical of having world championships in sports like the Olympics because they stress the separation of people along nationalities.

I also prefer John Lennon:

"Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion, too

 

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

 

You, you may say I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you will join us

And the world will be as one"

 

Great post mate, I`m 100% with you.

[Ish]

Achieving enlightenment in a Buddhist sense doesn't break the cycle of rebirth.

 

Can you explain your reason for thinking this?

[Thunder_Gooch]

Can you explain your reason for thinking this?

 

Enlightenment as I understand it is the realization of nonexistence of self, abiding nondual awareness. An enlightened being is still going to lose their yang spirit at death, and what will remain will still be just a passive yin only spirit that will be reincarnated.

[Edward M]

MPG, are you taking into account that with each realisation comes a release of tension within and a change energetically?

 

Peace

[r.w.smith]

I did say that Jim is lvl 2. The video above doesn't state that he passed lvl2. It is a test to measure his progress. Anyways, I will not divulge anymore than necessary. It is up to you if you want to learn from Jim. Just know that the instructions he mentioned above contains mistakes and are not the right lvl 2 method from Mopai. I have never seen a footage where John Chang described lvl 3 methods. That would be against his own rule, to put such a secret method in a recording.

 

Wrong again Tongkosong ! Your saying just because you have not seen the video then it must not exist ? lmao i love indonesians narrow way of thinkning. You said john would never break such rules, But John then accepted westerners into the school,even though it was forbidden. So to say he would never appear on video or a break mopai rules is a silly argument.Im telling you again, The video exists of john clearly explaining the sitting exercise and the difference between the previous standing exercise. Thats how we know your lying.

Edited November 9, 2012 by r.w.smith

[Thunder_Gooch]

MPG, are you taking into account that with each realisation comes a release of tension within and a change energetically?

 

Peace

 

Enlightened (in a non-dualistic sense) beings still die, and their yang spirit still scatters to the wind, and their yin spirit is subject to the same process all other yin spirits are subject to.

Edited November 9, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Edward M]

I'm not going to debate on this, but i'll say that there are two ways that do the same thing. One way deals directly with energy and fusion etc, the other deals with the mind and leads to the same energetic changes.

 

One leads to the other, mind to body/energy and energy/body to mind. When you do your chi practices, don't you feel a difference in your mental processes and have realisations?

 

Peace

[Ish]

Enlightened (in a non-dualistic sense) beings still die, and their yang spirit still scatters to the wind, and the yin spirit is subject to the same process all other yin spirits are subject to.

 

Well that's a belief just as is mine that a fully Enlightened being in a Buddhist sense has complete control over birth and death.

So no point debating until one KNOWS through their own realization.

[yiannis]

r.w.smith, amen mate!

 

The cat is out of the bag, and I guess if I was a closed door MoPai student I'd be pissed as well.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I'm not going to debate on this, but i'll say that there are two ways that do the same thing. One way deals directly with energy and fusion etc, the other deals with the mind and leads to the same energetic changes.

 

One leads to the other, mind to body/energy and energy/body to mind. When you do your chi practices, don't you feel a difference in your mental processes and have realisations?

 

Peace

 

 

Well that's a belief just as is mine that a fully Enlightened being in a Buddhist sense has complete control over birth and death.

So no point debating until one KNOWS through their own realization.

 

 

If you want to believe attaining enlightenment in a Buddhist/nondual since will stop rebirth don't let me stop you.

Edited November 9, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Ish]

If you want to believe attaining enlightenment in a Buddhist/nondual since will stop rebirth don't let me stop you.

 

What you say about yang and yin spirits and what happens after death is just a belief also.

[Thunder_Gooch]

What you say about yang and yin spirits and what happens after death is just a belief also.

 

 

It's all belief...

 

Some beliefs are rooted in observation, others in faith.

 

I don't have faith.

[Aetherous]

Who truly knows if mo pai level 30 will make you an immortal or not. Or if that's the only school for this. You know, mo pai sprang from Taoism... And becoming an immortal is a worldwide mystery school type thing.

 

In Buddhism, enlightenment is one thing but becoming a Buddha (or fully enlightened) is another. According to doctrine.

 

Who really knows.

[tongkosong]

r.w.smith, amen mate!

 

The cat is out of the bag, and I guess if I was a closed door MoPai student I'd be pissed as well.

 

I am not mad that "lvl 1" meditation method is out, even though it contains many mistakes and Jim's own additional instructions. More power to you, I guess. The only reason I am commenting is to warn people from thinking that it is the real lvl1 meditation method, and is safe to try it without a real teacher guiding you. So it is truly up to you, as you are responsible for your own well-being.

 

As to the claim that the video of John Chang explaining the difference between lvl 1 and the standing exercise, I am more confident that it is not lvl 3 method, as a true student of Mopai, especially a 3rd lvl student, would know the difference without being told. Furthermore, lvl3 method is so different from those of lvl 1 and the standing exercise. It's like trying to explain to a first grader on the lessons you will learn in college.

 

Well, anyways good luck. I just hope that you would attain what you wish and not try to steal the teachings of another school through Jim, especially when Jim is giving you false information. That is what it is, stealing, "to take away by force or unjust means; to take surreptitiously or without permission" (Webster definition of stealing).

[Ish]

It's all belief...

 

Some beliefs are rooted in observation, others in faith.

 

I don't have faith.

 

=]

 

I was just re-reading the Bliss of Inner Fire by Lama Thubten Yeshe. If you are really interested in this practice you should really read the whole text. The instructions for practice are all there.