Is this Mo Pai Level 1 ?

[templetao]

Hmm I dont know. I think GrandMaster P has a point. Infact it was something i have been thinking about for a while.

 

Heres my point.

 

Mo Pai levels 1-2a is pretty much universal in most systems of cultivation. So it would be safe to say that anything you learn after that is uniquely mo pai. So thus being if dont learn the neichia that is uniquely mo pai were you ever considered a real student?

 

The second question would be was this JC's intention from the beginning for westerners? Because thats the way it is now westerners can only learn the beginning levels.

 

That being the case here is my 3rd question May Yung Chen did he really kick out the western students or was it an excuse that JC used?

[Wells]

And why I doubt that these wannabe-experts are real rogue students of the true Mo Pai school in Indonesia...?

 

Well, what do you think the "nice" & incredibly powerful "Grandmaster Spirit" would do to them for SELLING these informations to countless unworthy westerners when he already kicked John Chang's butt for only proving his powers to scientists (as you saw in John's second video)!!!

:lol: LOL!!!

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dorian Black

[flyinghigh]

The topic of the previous masters who come in spirit form is an interesting one as they still seem to exert some influence on the current day school.

People from the school (Indonesian-Chinese) say that the ancestors limit teachings to Chinese people as they're from a time when China was treated badly by Western countries/people. So, because they're still stuck with those memories and experiences it's only understandable that they think like this. I guess, it's referred to the infamous Opium wars here (1839-1842 and 1856-1860), truly horrible deeds.

So that spirit must have lived in those years. But what about the spirits of the other masters from before? They shouldn't have had these experiences? Where are their voices?

It seems that some spirit master like John's immediate teacher at one point leave the spirit world and move on. I wonder to where? Reincarnation again? I thought they were immortals?

It's also been said that staying in the spirit world was a kind of punishment for bad deeds.

It would be interesting to hear more on this in case anybody has some knowledge.

 

Regarding Bodhidharrma, I only remember reading that John said that Bodhidharma is one of two people who reached level 72. He only said of the other, Chang San feng, that he was in the mopai lineage. If there is more info this let us know.

Edited November 14, 2012 by flyinghigh

[Wells]

The topic of the previous masters who come in spirit form is an interesting one as they still seem to exert some influence on the current day school.

 

"Seem to exert some influence"? Dude, they still RULE the school as they did all the time!

They threw John out and elected the new guy as headmaster, in case you didn't know!

 

Look in the video below how SCARED John is after the Grandmaster Spirit came to him to kick his ass!

Watch from 9:00 to the end!

 

 

Jim believes that his faith in God will protect him from these "Demons"....but what about "Shifu Lin" & Co.?

I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the Mo Pai Spirits find out!!!

These spirits aren't airy-fairies and powerless shadows like the rest...they still have their condensed Yang Chi and CAN BLAST YOUR HEAD OFF if they want to!

You guys are sooooo f*cked!

Note to self: Trying to make a quick dollar with Mo Pai training information: Not the best option if you want to live long!

 

(btw, that's in fact Jim at 9:39! So he has actually not one but two evidence videos on youtube to prove his credibility! )

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dorian Black

[GrandmasterP]

Spirit guides can stick around for as long as they choose to do so and work with whichever medium they fancy. Some will work exclusively with one medium others might favour a small team of mediums.

Now that's a contestable staement made by someone who is a semi pro ( I get paid ro do it when I do it but have a day job too) medium and at this point you are either on board or giggling. No worries.

OK

John Chang is or was a working medium, fact. He does standard medium tricks, he does spiritual healing, he works 'shock hands' and he comminicates with his spirit guide.

At some point and foe some reason that spieit guide ceases to woek with John Chang who then aquires another spirit guide.

That seems to coincide with Mr. McMillan and Mr. Danaos' time around JC along with that of the then young Aussie Andreas who is reported to have spent most of his times in Surabaya enjoying the social oppoetunities available locally.

JC then either steps down from or is removed from the temporal leadership of the MoPai sect which subsequently divides into at least two factions both local to Surabaya with a gew followers wlsewhere around Java and Malaysia all of whom are wthnic Chinese and all from the same 'caste'. (Village-family mainland heritage groupings). Neither faction admits westerners.

The chap who succeeds JC channels GM Liao JCs ex spirit guide and that section of the MoPai continues along with and in opposition to another faction based in a sports centre and chiefly consisting of younger MoPai who do not like the new leadership and wish for radical changes.

Both the JC MoPai and the schismatic group cultivate a form of neigong with the schismatic younger element introducing changes to that.

The MoPai is a spiritualistic sub sect within neigong cultivating their own forms of neigong. The mediums wiyhin MoPai woek as do mediums everywhere as did JC.

No one needs to be a medium to become a MoPai you simply have to accept tha a spieit guide is the GM ans the temporal head of your branch of he MoPai channels said GM. What you do have to be to become a MoPai is ethnic Chinese with familial or caste relationship to said MoPai.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[Celestial]

The wealth that John Chang accumulated is very relative to the Javanese economy. It's not like he was flying around in a G5, with an entourage of spirits, wearing a giant platinum necklace with the letters 'JC' encrusted with sacred rubies, rappin' about how he got dem secrets to dat Mo Pai yo!

 

Sorry, I just thought that image of John was funny and had to fit it in somewhere. But clearly the point I was trying to make on the previous page was missed.

 

Carry on with this circle-jerk.

[Neikung]

The truth is that there is no such blanket prohibition in the Mo P'ai. However, a great many of John's students have taught others and charged an honorarium, with his knowledge. Why these semantics are of so much concern to so many people with NO connection to the lineage is really bizarre.

I have no clue where you got this crazy information? From the fictious Shifu Lin I presume? What you said here is completely not true.

[Neikung]

Jim believes that his faith in God will protect him from these "Demons"....but what about "Shifu Lin" & Co.?

I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the Mo Pai Spirits find out!!!

These spirits aren't airy-fairies and powerless shadows like the rest...they still have their condensed Yang Chi and CAN BLAST YOUR HEAD OFF if they want to!

You guys are sooooo f*cked!

Note to self: Trying to make a quick dollar with Mo Pai training information: Not the best option if you want to live long!

I so agree with your assessment! How can anyone claim to be in the "Mopai" lineage but disobey the ancestors' wishes?

[GrandmasterP]

I'm the last person to be superstitious but I have heard from someone I trust, thus far; to be a reliable source that certainly one person offering MoPai branded snake oil in the west has come quite a cropper both physically and mentally. Now that's not to say his misfortune has come about as a result of what he was doing, simply to state what has apparently happened to one individual.

[Practitioner]

One can imagine though, if John's lineage teachers were really true blue Daoists, that they lived rather radical lifestyles. The description of Liao Tsu Tong is very characteristic of old-school daoist hermits. In the books its says that his house was empty except for the bare minimum necessities, and that he "never owned anything that other people would desire or envy". So in short the man was a stone's throw away from being one of those beggar hermits, who never concerned themselves with wealth or any degree of materialism.

 

I think that does say something considering that if John's teacher was like this, that perhaps that sort of lifestyle was the norm for all in their particular sect. If there were any lineage spirits still around, I could no doubt imagine their unpleasant thought towards practitioners in this day and age who equate a good deal of things with material wealth and the capacity to give. If their teachings were things that they held more sacred than money (which they never really had much to do with in the first place), no doubt it must be a sting in their eyes to see something so valuable be given away in return for such a small thing (material capacity), especially when the teaching was no doubt based on karma and traditionally doing personal services and respects to the teacher. The second is very recognized pretty much anywhere you go in asia, its a value cultivated by most asian folk cultures in general.

 

On another note, I find it most intriguing when they say the Bodhidarma was a fully achieved mopai. The funny thing is that Bodhidharma could not be further away from chinese than possible. He was a big old hairy indian dude.

[tongkosong]

Spirit guides can stick around for as long as they choose to do so and work with whichever medium they fancy. Some will work exclusively with one medium others might favour a small team of mediums.

Now that's a contestable staement made by someone who is a semi pro ( I get paid ro do it when I do it but have a day job too) medium and at this point you are either on board or giggling. No worries.

OK

John Chang is or was a working medium, fact. He does standard medium tricks, he does spiritual healing, he works 'shock hands' and he comminicates with his spirit guide.

At some point and foe some reason that spieit guide ceases to woek with John Chang who then aquires another spirit guide.

That seems to coincide with Mr. McMillan and Mr. Danaos' time around JC along with that of the then young Aussie Andreas who is reported to have spent most of his times in Surabaya enjoying the social oppoetunities available locally.

JC then either steps down from or is removed from the temporal leadership of the MoPai sect which subsequently divides into at least two factions both local to Surabaya with a gew followers wlsewhere around Java and Malaysia all of whom are wthnic Chinese and all from the same 'caste'. (Village-family mainland heritage groupings). Neither faction admits westerners.

The chap who succeeds JC channels GM Liao JCs ex spirit guide and that section of the MoPai continues along with and in opposition to another faction based in a sports centre and chiefly consisting of younger MoPai who do not like the new leadership and wish for radical changes.

Both the JC MoPai and the schismatic group cultivate a form of neigong with the schismatic younger element introducing changes to that.

The MoPai is a spiritualistic sub sect within neigong cultivating their own forms of neigong. The mediums wiyhin MoPai woek as do mediums everywhere as did JC.

No one needs to be a medium to become a MoPai you simply have to accept tha a spieit guide is the GM ans the temporal head of your branch of he MoPai channels said GM. What you do have to be to become a MoPai is ethnic Chinese with familial or caste relationship to said MoPai.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

GrandmasterP, you have made several misconceptions in your statements above. First of all, John Chang is not a working medium. He does not get paid for contacting the spirits. John Chang's Neigong allows him the ability to communicate with spirits. This is not through tricks nor spells, just through the suppression of Yang Chi. John Chang does not have any spirit guides or any spirits that has ceased from working with him. Jim's reactions and misgivings in regards to these spirits is due to his ignorance and, maybe, his Christian background.

 

In regards to the factions of Mopai, as you have stated, is not accurate. There are no factions of Mopai, just a few disgruntled and unloyal Western students, who could not accept the closing of the system to them. They decided to disobey Mopai's policy and take upon themselves "unofficial" students. These "students" are not recognized as the true students of Mopai, as there are other requirements, aside from being Chinese, to be recognized as the true Mopai students.

 

Mopai is not a "spiritualistic sect". The spirits do not govern Mopai, but, it is the students who respects the wishes and oathes they had with the masters when they were still living. I hope this clears up the confusions you have regarding Mopai.

[Celestial]

Yeah, I wanted to clear that up for GrandmasterP as well. Now I don't have to, so thank you.

 

John Chang is not opening his act in Las Vegas, and he doesn't have a library of books (like Mantak Chia) nor any special potions to sell. I find it hard to believe that all his powers are somehow connected to spirits who hang around him all day long with nothing better to do than to knock over cigarette boxes.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Celestial

[flyinghigh]

Look in the video below how SCARED John is after the Grandmaster Spirit came to him to kick his ass!

 

I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the Mo Pai Spirits find out!!!

These spirits aren't airy-fairies and powerless shadows like the rest...they still have their condensed Yang Chi and CAN BLAST YOUR HEAD OFF if they want to!

You guys are sooooo f*cked!

Note to self: Trying to make a quick dollar with Mo Pai training information: Not the best option if you want to live long!

 

 

In that documentary the spirit master not only reminded John not to show off in public, but also never to harm anyone.

I can't reconcile that apparently iron-clad rule of the pai with what you're writing what the spirits might do in retaliation.

[flyinghigh]

On another note, I find it most intriguing when they say the Bodhidarma was a fully achieved mopai. The funny thing is that Bodhidharma could not be further away from chinese than possible. He was a big old hairy indian dude.

Where does it say that Bodhidharma was member of mopai?

[flyinghigh]

Mopai is not a "spiritualistic sect".

 

Great, we seem to have a mopai member here who can perhaps clear things up.

What is the objective of mopai?

What kind of pai would you say it is?

Martial arts/healing sect?

Way to enlightenment (I know that's what it says in Kosta's book, but it seems to be only partly reliable.)? If so, how do you define enlightenment?

[Practitioner]

Where does it say that Bodhidharma was member of mopai?

Magus of java states that only 2 people were ever able to reach the 72nd level and complete the system: Bodhidharma and Chang Sanfeng. Sanfeng is obviously a very well known Daoist immortal, Bodhidharma on the other hand is Indian and is known for bringing Zen Buddhism to China. Interesting that they would say that a Buddhist and an Indian no less, had perfected yinyang gong. even further, yingyang gong is known more or less for spiritism and the power of its practitioner's qi (which one would simply not doubt from one such as Sanfeng), while on the other hand a Buddhist monk like Bodhidharma would most probably scoff at all of these things (or perhaps never use such abilites or actively mingle with spirits).

[GrandmasterP]

I've PMd our knowledgeable chum for further information. As posted previously my information such as it is is anecdotal, the two books are anecdotal. There is at least one research paper mentioning but not focusing on the MoPai and I await that with interest, there may be more so if anyone has links those would be most welcome.

Thus far none of our knowledgeable friends appear able to identify the current temporal head of the JC 'continuing' MoPai by name.

That is most surely a matter of record in Surabaya. Whilst we all have opinions and sometimes strong feelings on this subject, verifiable information is less easy to come by, hence my interest.

Edited November 15, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[h.uriahr]

I'm not sure how someone can make and justify an opinion off of one or two books. I enjoyed Kosta's books. They were awesome IMO, however, they are exactly that, entertaining. I dont base my entire belief system off of 2 books written by opinions and some possible real stories. Is the mo pai cut off to westerners? Maybe. Is it the only way? Definitely not. Now I dont have concrete evidence of enlightenment or immortality but then again, not one single supposed mo pai member has concrete evidence of that. This whole thing gets old really. Not one single mo pai supporter, practitioner or whatever has posted a picture, or name, or anything. You're all anonymous. So who is to believe anything you guys say? Or all of you that support the mo pai by saying "well it's in such and such book on such and such page that you CANNOT charge AT ALL! The spirits that be are turning over in their graves!"

 

I call bullshit. If you havent met John or met someone that has real proof that they know John, not just saw him and chased him down like a movie star for a pic moment but have actually met, spoken with, consistently then who are you to say what's right and what's wrong? I mean seriously, that's a strong stance to take just off of 2 books.

[h.uriahr]

One last thing. Do I find it ok to charge? Yes I do. I find it absolutely ok because people tend to appreciate things more when they actually have to work for them. I bet not one single person who spent $4000 USD on the Jiang seminar will publish his teachings on the net. Why? Because that's alot of money to just throw away for some entitled kid to just pick up and do whatever they want with. Ok, so you cant afford $4000 USD. Would you move to China and find a local job and learn the local dialect and spend every hour outside of work, cleaning Jiang's or John's or Liping's house? Cook for them? Repair their house? Drive them around? Would you put in real dedicated labor and time to them and their lineage? I sincerely doubt it. I'm talking about a senario where we know for a fact that they have immortality producing lineages. Would you? This topic seems to grow way to fast for me to think so, meaning there's way too much time spent on this forum, when you could be practicing.

[Seth Ananda]

One last thing. Do I find it ok to charge? Yes I do. I find it absolutely ok because people tend to appreciate things more when they actually have to work for them. I bet not one single person who spent $4000 USD on the Jiang seminar will publish his teachings on the net. Why? Because that's alot of money to just throw away for some entitled kid to just pick up and do whatever they want with. Ok, so you cant afford $4000 USD. Would you move to China and find a local job and learn the local dialect and spend every hour outside of work, cleaning Jiang's or John's or Liping's house? Cook for them? Repair their house? Drive them around? Would you put in real dedicated labor and time to them and their lineage? I sincerely doubt it. I'm talking about a senario where we know for a fact that they have immortality producing lineages. Would you? This topic seems to grow way to fast for me to think so, meaning there's way too much time spent on this forum, when you could be practicing.

thank you!

And lets consider just how many real students have shown this kind of dedication...

 

The whiners who want it for free will never benefit from it regardless of if they get given it or not.

 

Someone who uproots their whole life to go and learn something, is showing, at least in part, that they have the dedication and commitment required to actually live the path...

 

Someone who bitches and moans about having to part with a few hundred bucks {or even a few thousand} is showing that they have no real commitment to begin with, and will fizzle out sooner or later... This same person, will probably happily spend $4000 on a new home entertainment system.

Priorities huh?

 

If one believes these teachings really work, and lead towards Immortality, then rather than complaining about some trivial amount of cash, wouldn't it be better to Man up and 'get a job' and save the amount? You would probably have it in a few months! Then instead of complaining in Internet threads, you would be practising...

 

Anyway h.uriahr I think I just rehashed what you said, so sorry for the echo... lol

Edited November 15, 2012 by Seth Ananda

[Aetherous]

Aaaaannnd I'm going to have to disagree with you two.

[h.uriahr]

If everyone agreed with me then this forum would get boring lol.

 

Much love

[Wells]

thank you!

The whiners who want it for free will never benefit from it regardless of if they get given it or not.

 

Someone who uproots their whole life to go and learn something, is showing, at least in part, that they have the dedication and commitment required to actually live the path...

 

Someone who bitches and moans about having to part with a few hundred bucks {or even a few thousand} is showing that they have no real commitment to begin with, and will fizzle out sooner or later... This same person, will probably happily spend $4000 on a new home entertainment system.

Priorities huh?

 

If one believes these teachings really work, and lead towards Immortality, then rather than complaining about some trivial amount of cash, wouldn't it be better to Man up and 'get a job' and save the amount? You would probably have it in a few months! Then instead of complaining in Internet threads, you would be practising...

 

That's so true!

[Celestial]

There's a lot of logical fallacies coming out of Seth's posts. "Man up, get a job!" ... really? "Instead of complaining in internet threads, you would be practicing..." ....uh like you're doing right? Go practice instead of caring what others are saying and stop making gross assumptions about other people's priorities.

 

I'm surprised this thread is still not locked.

[Seth Ananda]

There's a lot of logical fallacies coming out of Seth's posts. "Man up, get a job!" ... really? "Instead of complaining in internet threads, you would be practicing..." ....uh like you're doing right? Go practice instead of caring what others are saying and stop making gross assumptions about other people's priorities.

 

I'm surprised this thread is still not locked.

Unfortunately that is not pointing out any logical fallacies in my posts, but it does once again show your inability to conceptualise clearly...

If you read my posts with the slightest care you would have noticed my Interest in Mopai, and more so that I am not one of the people who practices it as I do not know it. So how can I practice, like I want to?

 

Outside of Mopai, I have done vast amounts of practice, but I feel I need something new.

 

I wish to be sure I am not dealing with con men, before I 'happily' part with my hard earned cash... Hence my desire to help end the confusion around who is or isn't who as a first step...

 

Then If Naziri is not Shifu Lin, I would like to see some evidence that Lin knows his stuff, and is from that lineage...

Every teacher I know of has at least a picture of him and his teacher. That is really not too much to ask.

 

 

$300 is not much at all, and i would love to pay it, or more, but here is the thing. I despise conmen, so while part of me thinks 'who cares, just risk it and send the money, I hate to think I might be supporting some con mans vile deceit.

 

And I admit, It bugs me that Naziri is one of the only people who seems to know of Shifu Lin. {that may not be true, but I cant find any evidence anywhere so far to suggest otherwise...

 

I personally like Naziri, and think he is a good bloke, but I still want to see something sugesting Shifu Lin is part of Mopai or at least knows it properly...

 

And why would this thread get locked? We have a chance to clear some of the smog, if we proceed carefully...