Is this Mo Pai Level 1 ?

[Celestial]

I'm old order QiGong and it's all Yang til you get beyond the superficial, after that when you can draw on the Yin then it gets to be fun.

 

Yeah that's possible, but according to John Chang, we draw in Yang and Yin energy at the same time. More Yang than Yin especially if you don't meditate outside. Apparently, if you meditate outside on natural soil, you'll draw in Yin Ch'i from the Earth up into your 'root' chakra.

[Naziri]

 

 

I am still curious how you met Lin, and why you think he is the real deal. A question you've ignored repeatedly.

 

Actually, i have answered this question when you asked me months ago Mo Pai Guy. i told you that i, like several dozen other of his meditation students, have trained with him in Kung Fu long before we trained in Nei Kung with him.

 

How do i know he is the "real deal"? The same way Jim does, and for the same reasons Jim has said that he is "the real deal" in no less words than these. This is why Jim turned to him for help, and Shifu offered him preliminary suggestions to get his health back on track so he can potentially resume training in Nei Kung at some point. Shifu has sent letters from Jim and i doubt Jim would deny it for that matter.

 

Are Sifu Lin and Mr McMillan somehow connected?

 

 

 

Yes, Jim actually turned to Shifu Lin for help and verified to students that Shifu Lin is the "real deal." Shifu helped him for a while but then the behavior of some of Jim's students turned Shifu off. He thereafter told Jim that he was not going to help him if he was going to teach students who had no virtue. He required that Jim correct some students' behavior before he continued teaching Jim.

 

Anyone wanting a copy of these letters can write to Shifu for them. Beyond that, anyone wanting to contact Shifu can write to me off the thread, as i don't normally make a habit of checking this forum, as i have far to much training and teaching to do, as well as family life and working on a PhD to boot. Internet forums end up sucking you in to conversations that often don't turn out half as productive as one anticipates. No judgment on those who get anything out of exchanges like this, but i personally get much more out of training.

 

Peace.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Actually, i have answered this question when you asked me months ago Mo Pai Guy. i told you that i, like several dozen other of his meditation students, have trained with him in Kung Fu long before we trained in Nei Kung with him.

 

How do i know he is the "real deal"? The same way Jim does, and for the same reasons Jim has said that he is "the real deal" in no less words than these. This is why Jim turned to him for help, and Shifu offered him preliminary suggestions to get his health back on track so he can potentially resume training in Nei Kung at some point. Shifu has sent letters from Jim and i doubt Jim would deny it for that matter.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Jim actually turned to Shifu Lin for help and verified to students that Shifu Lin is the "real deal." Shifu helped him for a while but then the behavior of some of Jim's students turned Shifu off. He thereafter told Jim that he was not going to help him if he was going to teach students who had no virtue. He required that Jim correct some students' behavior before he continued teaching Jim.

 

Anyone wanting a copy of these letters can write to Shifu for them. Beyond that, anyone wanting to contact Shifu can write to me off the thread, as i don't normally make a habit of checking this forum, as i have far to much training and teaching to do, as well as family life and working on a PhD to boot. Internet forums end up sucking you in to conversations that often don't turn out half as productive as one anticipates. No judgment on those who get anything out of exchanges like this, but i personally get much more out of training.

 

Peace.

 

 

So you met Lin in person and trained with him in Kung fu, or you met him on the internet and trained with him in Kung fu online?

Edited November 12, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

Yeah that's possible, but according to John Chang, we draw in Yang and Yin energy at the same time. More Yang than Yin especially if you don't meditate outside. Apparently, if you meditate outside on natural soil, you'll draw in Yin Ch'i from the Earth up into your 'root' chakra.

......

Yep Yin up from ground via bubbling well on each sole and around.

Hurts like heck at first.

[h.uriahr]

 

 

 

 

Actually, i have answered this question when you asked me months ago Mo Pai Guy. i told you that i, like several dozen other of his meditation students, have trained with him in Kung Fu long before we trained in Nei Kung with him.

 

How do i know he is the "real deal"? The same way Jim does, and for the same reasons Jim has said that he is "the real deal" in no less words than these. This is why Jim turned to him for help, and Shifu offered him preliminary suggestions to get his health back on track so he can potentially resume training in Nei Kung at some point. Shifu has sent letters from Jim and i doubt Jim would deny it for that matter.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Jim actually turned to Shifu Lin for help and verified to students that Shifu Lin is the "real deal." Shifu helped him for a while but then the behavior of some of Jim's students turned Shifu off. He thereafter told Jim that he was not going to help him if he was going to teach students who had no virtue. He required that Jim correct some students' behavior before he continued teaching Jim.

 

Anyone wanting a copy of these letters can write to Shifu for them. Beyond that, anyone wanting to contact Shifu can write to me off the thread, as i don't normally make a habit of checking this forum, as i have far to much training and teaching to do, as well as family life and working on a PhD to boot. Internet forums end up sucking you in to conversations that often don't turn out half as productive as one anticipates. No judgment on those who get anything out of exchanges like this, but i personally get much more out of training.

 

Peace.

 

 

This is where you train?

 

sanszu.com

 

???

 

[healingtouch]

Those that claim to be in the know seem to be very concerned about the health of the practitioners that might follow this set of leaked PDFs, and yet, despite this overwhelming compassion, none of them has posted the correct instructions, not even for level 1 ...

[Celestial]

Those that claim to be in the know seem to be very concerned about the health of the practitioners that might follow this set of leaked PDFs, and yet, despite this overwhelming compassion, none of them has posted the correct instructions, not even for level 1 ...

 

Exactly.

[Jamyang Dorje]

So you met Lin in person and trained with him in Kung fu, or you met him on the internet and trained with him in Kung fu online?

 

Naziri has been training with Shifu Lin in person for almost as long as I've known him, which is a very long time. I will vouch for both of them - they are as real as it gets.

 

How do I know they are the real deal? I'm also a long time student, and the results of the training under close guidance of such a teacher are undeniable.

 

As for the instructions for "1 and 2a" floating around out there.. You get what you pay for. It's important to understand that this type of practice cannot be conveyed in a few pages of basic instructions. The practice evolves as you progress, and it is ESSENTIAL to have a teacher to check in with if you want to attain the expected result. Not to mention, anything beyond "level 1" is potentially dangerous if you aren't ready, and double damn sure of what you're doing.

 

A few folks have been gracious enough to extend a helping hand to anyone sincere and committed enough to train hard. I respect a healthy dose of skepticism, but anyone who's serious enough to put in the work would do well to at least touch base with them.

 

-jd

[seiko]

Naziris youtube channel

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Mikhahbendavid/featured

 

All videos have been recorded for future ref.

[Celestial]

And here we...go!

[h.uriahr]

 

 

Naziri has been training with Shifu Lin in person for almost as long as I've known him, which is a very long time. I will vouch for both of them - they are as real as it gets.

 

How do I know they are the real deal? I'm also a long time student, and the results of the training under close guidance of such a teacher are undeniable.

 

As for the instructions for "1 and 2a" floating around out there.. You get what you pay for. It's important to understand that this type of practice cannot be conveyed in a few pages of basic instructions. The practice evolves as you progress, and it is ESSENTIAL to have a teacher to check in with if you want to attain the expected result. Not to mention, anything beyond "level 1" is potentially dangerous if you aren't ready, and double damn sure of what you're doing.

 

A few folks have been gracious enough to extend a helping hand to anyone sincere and committed enough to train hard. I respect a healthy dose of skepticism, but anyone who's serious enough to put in the work would do well to at least touch base with them.

 

-jd

 

 

So you've met Lin in person?

 

Nazirir is Hern Heng. Hern Heng writes with Lin...?

 

Lin just so happens to be in Ohio??

 

Interesting.

[Celestial]

...the plot thickens!

[Jamyang Dorje]

Yes, and I've been a student under him since early 2006. Shifu Lin is not located in Ohio however, and nobody is going to post his real location on a public forum. He's an older gentleman who values his privacy.

 

Naziri is indeed Hern Heng (disciple name from one of his kung fu lineages). As far as I know, he and Shifu Lin have collaborated on a few books, among other things. Shifu doesn't have the time or the language skills necessary to publish books in English, but wishes to counteract the scam artists, bullshit artists, and forum trash talking by making some real information available in a respectable manner.

 

If you aren't feeling it, cool. If you are, come hang out and train with us sometime. It will be much more fun and productive than this endless interweb drama

 

 

So you've met Lin in person?

 

Nazirir is Hern Heng. Hern Heng writes with Lin...?

 

Lin just so happens to be in Ohio??

 

Interesting.

[Ish]

Yes, and I've been a student under him since early 2006. Shifu Lin is not located in Ohio however, and nobody is going to post his real location on a public forum. He's an older gentleman who values his privacy.

 

Naziri is indeed Hern Heng (disciple name from one of his kung fu lineages). As far as I know, he and Shifu Lin have collaborated on a few books, among other things. Shifu doesn't have the time or the language skills necessary to publish books in English, but wishes to counteract the scam artists, bullshit artists, and forum trash talking by making some real information available in a respectable manner.

 

If you aren't feeling it, cool. If you are, come hang out and train with us sometime. It will be much more fun and productive than this endless interweb drama

 

I assume your Shifu Lin is beyond level 4 if he is teaching the Mo Pai system?

[seiko]

Naziri has been training with Shifu Lin in person for almost as long as I've known him, which is a very long time. I will vouch for both of them - they are as real as it gets.

 

How do I know they are the real deal? I'm also a long time student, and the results of the training under close guidance of such a teacher are undeniable.

 

As for the instructions for "1 and 2a" floating around out there.. You get what you pay for. It's important to understand that this type of practice cannot be conveyed in a few pages of basic instructions. The practice evolves as you progress, and it is ESSENTIAL to have a teacher to check in with if you want to attain the expected result. Not to mention, anything beyond "level 1" is potentially dangerous if you aren't ready, and double damn sure of what you're doing.

 

A few folks have been gracious enough to extend a helping hand to anyone sincere and committed enough to train hard. I respect a healthy dose of skepticism, but anyone who's serious enough to put in the work would do well to at least touch base with them.

 

-jd

 

And what lineage exactly is this Shifu Lin From, And who was his Master, Grandmaster etc ?Why cant Shifu Lin or somebody Heal Jim Mcmillan ?

Edited November 13, 2012 by seiko

[GrandmasterP]

Why all this secrecy anyway?

 

[Jamyang Dorje]

Interestingly enough, what you bring up has never been a qualification for teaching in this lineage. Case in point - the current headmaster of Mo P'ai is not beyond "level 4", but is extremely advanced and is actively teaching the system. Pak John also inherited the lineage before he completed this level. Just some food for thought.

 

As for where Shfu Lin is at, that is his business, and not for me to speak about. I will tell you however that many of his students have reached "2a" and beyond. One has in fact succeeded in fusing yin and yang to a limited extent, and a few others are getting there, if that is any indicator of what he is qualified to teach.

 

 

I assume your Shifu Lin is beyond level 4 if he is teaching the Mo Pai system?

[GrandmasterP]

Interestingly enough, what you bring up has never been a qualification for teaching in this lineage. Case in point - the current headmaster of Mo P'ai is not beyond "level 4", but is extremely advanced and is actively teaching the system. Pak John also inherited the lineage before he completed this level. Just some food for thought.

 

As for where Shfu Lin is at, that is his business, and not for me to speak about. I will tell you however that many of his students have reached "2a" and beyond. One has in fact succeeded in fusing yin and yang to a limited extent, and a few others are getting there, if that is any indicator of what he is qualified to teach.

..........................

Who is the current head of the MoPai please?

[Ish]

Interestingly enough, what you bring up has never been a qualification for teaching in this lineage. Case in point - the current headmaster of Mo P'ai is not beyond "level 4", but is extremely advanced and is actively teaching the system. Pak John also inherited the lineage before he completed this level. Just some food for thought.

 

As for where Shfu Lin is at, that is his business, and not for me to speak about. I will tell you however that many of his students have reached "2a" and beyond. One has in fact succeeded in fusing yin and yang to a limited extent, and a few others are getting there, if that is any indicator of what he is qualified to teach.

 

Interesting thanks. That's an indicator that he's beyond yin and yang fusion if this is all legit.

[Jamyang Dorje]

I would submit that Shifu is in fact not secretive, beyond what is necessary for privacy. He has MANY students all over the place, and by all accounts is a very friendly and forthcoming guy.

 

The problem here is not secrecy, but rather, a rampant sense of entitlement. I empathize with our brothers in Indo who have been dealing with this for years. Teachers like Lin, John, or Shifu Y* simply do not owe it to anyone to prove their credentials, or to draw the Yugio generation a map to their doorstep. That's on you and your own karma, if you truly wish to know.

 

On this side of the pond, we dedicate ourselves to this training for a reason. It is to benefit all beings, beyond number. This is serious work, that at this point in time does not include babysitting Internet forums where people hope to attain the Dao through osmosis.

 

The door is very much open to those who have a strong commitment to striving hard for the benefit of all beings. If that is not your M.O., then Shifu Lin is not the teacher you are looking for anyway.

 

-jd

 

 

Why all this secrecy anyway?

[Shagrath]

The more I read about Mo Pai the sillier it all sounds. And that Bodhidharma was Mo Pai's top level student and Zhang Sanfeng. Can anyone back this up? It is just like Hare Krishna followers claim that Jesus Christ was reincarnation of Krishna. Nobody can prove but nobody can disprove it

 

Some people claim that Bodidharma was trained in Kalaripayattu some disprove it etc. Nobody knows, and nobody can prove anything. So I doubt very much in such a bold claims as Kosta wrote in book.

 

And surprise surprise as Mo Pai gets more and more popular we find out more and more teachers who are not even beyond level 4, and everybody is writing some books and have bolder and bolder claims, not facts...claims.

 

You have to admit that it really sounds silly

Edited November 13, 2012 by Shagrath

[flyinghigh]

by making some real information available in a respectable manner.

 

That means charging 300$?

What about making a dvd? Giving a seminar?

What's so respectable about making a little booklet with just general stuff and then in it egging one on to communicate on via email and paying 300$?

Hmm, let's say a 1,000* people get intererested enough. A nice sum.

And we don't even know if this Sifu Lin exists or even if he does but whether the content is truly by him and whether it's correct.

All the astroturfing of 5star reviews on amazon doesn't look too convincing either.

(*probably not too difficult to get to a 1,000 buyers if you look at the yt view numbers and I'd guess that Kostas' unit sales go into the tens of thousands)

[GrandmasterP]

Maybe one of the drawbacks of secrecy is that if things aren't out in the open and transparent then anyone can set up a shingle claiming to be level-this or Shifu That and no one knows any different as there's no way to check their credentials and testimonials can be self referential with Shifu That's chums posting praise and bigging their school up online.

It's something of a pattern in the less well known martial arts too. When Escrima surfaced over here it wasn't too long before there were four competing associations each one slagging the other one off as invalid. That's more or less settled down these days and those instructors that could do worked together whilst the ones that could not and some chancers just disappeared off the radar.

MoPai in Surabaya is akin to the Freemasons over here, a closed society with secrets and it's closed to westerners. There are at least two schools over there, the John Chang group led b the chap who succeeded JC plus a schism from that original group and based in a martial arts school in the city. There may well be more and there are certainly several brands of cultivation claiming the MoPai name here in the west but with what validity we know not. Someone is or was selling a ' how to' manual for $300 US but who is to say that it is a 'genuine' MoPai manual?

Do we even know if there is such a thing as an original MoPai manual in Chinese or whatever language they use in Java feom which presumably reliable English translations could be made.

I am puzzled by reference here and elsewhere to 1a...2b and he like as according to the McMillan and Danaos books the early stages were simplified to 1,2,3,4 for western students when the MoPai were admitting western students.

It all seems to be a bit of a muddle and where there is muddle you may sometimes find unscrupulous folk cashing in on the confusion. We all know of at least one bum who has lost money as a result of MoPai goods and services that failed to appear.

Maybe the best advice until we know more is, don't send any money to anyone or anything advertising under the MoPai banner.

[Seth Ananda]

Can we get of the ever boring money Issue? {flyinghigh}

 

Who the %^#! cares if a teacher wants to charge a once off fee for his services.

 

They have to eat, and this thread is called 'Is this Mopai level 1?'.

 

but it is most definitely not called 'Ethics of charging for teaching services level 1'

 

So can we stay on topic?

 

Is it level 1?

 

Some say yes, some say no, some say in part, with crucial details missing {Naziri and shifu lin students...}.

 

Certain people here seem to believe or feel suspicious that Naziri is or might be Shifu Lin, who also may be the infamous Lucas Huang, who may also even be TempleTao... This stops many who are genuinely interested in pursuing this path from sitting down and practising, and instead they sit around reading epic threads on Mopai.

 

This has created such a fog of suspision and mistrust, and disinformation that we must spend some time dispelling it.

 

If Naziri is a conman, we should know {and I don't personally believe that he is} but if he is not, and if Shifu Lin is really the real deal, then that is a great boon to Mopai students everywhere. {regardles of a measly 300 bucks}

Surely that is worth some proper time to discern?

 

i posit that we are all {hopefully} Intelligent people and that we can come up with a clear answer, to at least ending some of the allegations, which is a necessary step to being able to proceed with any certainty, about where and who our information is coming from...!

 

Some thoughts on dispelling this mess are:

 

1.) Getting Naziri, Templetao, and hopefully even Shifu Lin on the phone or live chat or skype at the same time.

I havent used it, but doesn't TTB's have some voice chat function?

 

Even if we only got Templetao and Naziri on at the same time, that at least dispels one of the myths floating around...

 

2.) Naziris group have been most Inviting of us to come and train with them. Do any of us Bums live near there? Apparently Shifu Lin is well known there, so anyone looking into this should be able to discern fairly quickly whether he is real or not...

And they might get some Awesome training and begin an actual practice...

 

3.) Mods can do an ISP check on parties that are logged on here... this is the least reliable, but is still something...

 

Any other ideas?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Seth Ananda

[GrandmasterP]

a Royal Rumble perhaps.

Winner takes all.