Neiye and Daozang

[sufidao]

I was curious to know if the Neiye is included in any of Daozangs? The significance of the issue would be in being accepted of the Neiye by Daoists, traditionally, as one of their scriptures.

[GrandmasterP]

Taoists have scriptures?

[Slim]

Not that I know of. It's not in the Zhengtong daozang anyway.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

The Nei Yeh is not traditionally a part of "Daoism". It is from a collection of texts called the Guanzi after the purported author. At different times in its long history it has been considered "Daoist" or Legalist. It has been a focus of interest for Western Sinologists looking for proto-Daoist quietist texts. That is the use that Arthur Waley makes of it in the introduction to his Daodejing translation, The Way and its Power. Harold Roth used it to propose the existence of pre-Daodejing "Daoism", but his arguments are a little forced. The Nei Yeh and some other texts in the Guanzi contain many interesting correlations with both later Daoism and Mencian Confucianism, but neither the Guanzi as a whole nor any of its parts, has ever been a part of regular "Daoism", especialy religious Daoism and therefore will not be found in any Daozang.

 

This is too bad in a sense, because a careful reading of some of the Guanzi texts seems to indicate an early origin to the type of meditation practices from which "Daoist" alchemy appears to derive, but such purely historical considerations are not part of a tradition that assumes that such practices go back to basically mythic times, which perhaps they do, since the earliest surviving reference is not the same thing as the earliest use of practices or ideas.

[ShifuC]

The Nei Yeh is not traditionally a part of "Daoism". It is from a collection of texts called the Guanzi after the purported author. At different times in its long history it has been considered "Daoist" or Legalist. It has been a focus of interest for Western Sinologists looking for proto-Daoist quietist texts. That is the use that Arthur Waley makes of it in the introduction to his Daodejing translation, The Way and its Power. Harold Roth used it to propose the existence of pre-Daodejing "Daoism", but his arguments are a little forced. The Nei Yeh and some other texts in the Guanzi contain many interesting correlations with both later Daoism and Mencian Confucianism, but neither the Guanzi as a whole nor any of its parts, has ever been a part of regular "Daoism", especialy religious Daoism and therefore will not be found in any Daozang.

 

This is too bad in a sense, because a careful reading of some of the Guanzi texts seems to indicate an early origin to the type of meditation practices from which "Daoist" alchemy appears to derive, but such purely historical considerations are not part of a tradition that assumes that such practices go back to basically mythic times, which perhaps they do, since the earliest surviving reference is not the same thing as the earliest use of practices or ideas.

 

His arguments are equally valid and invalid, as at the time, there was no such thing as Taoism. Everyone was Taoist without calling it that. So like Schroedinger's cat, you can have it either way. Considering it references Tao and Qi, that is enough for me.

 

Most modern sinologists admit that laozi text did not start taoism, it became the foundation after all the structure and scholasticism was created in Han and later times. Much of the Zhuangzi has been found to be older than laozi. Things were collected by editors and posthumously attributed all the time. The Hua Hu Ching is a perfect example.

 

Imho, Nei Yeh is not only Taoist, it is quintessentially so. Peace.

[Shao Leeroy]

Guanzi 管子: [book of] Master Guan.

Chapters 1-11 translated by W. Allyn Rickett. Guanzi: Political, Economic, and Philosophical Essays from Early China. Vol. 1. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1985.

Chapters 12-24 translated by W. Allyn Rickett. Guanzi: Political, Economic, and Philosophical Essays from Early China. Vol. 2. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1998.

Selections translated by Harold D. Roth. “The Inner Cultivation Tradition of Early Daoism.” In Religions of China in Practice, edited by Donald S. Lopez, Jr., 124-48. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1996.

Categorized as a “miscellaneous” or “mixed-together” (za 雜) text under Han bibliographic categories, this anthology was traditionally ascribed to Master Guan, a minister of the state of Qi who died in 645 B.C.E. The core of the received edition dates to the 3rd century B.C.E. It includes some material that may be labeled “Daoist” or “proto-Daoist,” especially the so-called “Heart-Mind Techniques” (xinshu 心術) chapters: “Xinshu shang” 心術上 (Heart-Mind Techniques, Part I; ch. 13), “Xinshu xia” 心術下 (Heart-Mind Techniques, Part II; ch. 13), “Baixin” 白心 (Purifying the Heart-Mind; ch. 13), and “Neiye” 內業 (Inward Training; ch. 16).

http://www.daoistcenter.org/texts.pdf