Self Worth Of A Young Man

[BlueMonk91]

Im more of a reader on the forums than a poster but I have'nt had much of a chance to read threads lately due to growing working load at Uni, I apologise in advance if the OP becomes lengthy this is more a spur of the moment post; just expressing some thoughts...............

 

Another thread that I read last night about a guy who is emotionally scarred as a result of a female who he thought fancied him flaking on him. One of the responses in the thread suggested that the situation was the result of deficient self worth on behalf of the OP.

 

As I was reading this my housemate was having sex downstairs and it got me thinking about my embarrasment over being a virgin at 20 and never having a girlfriend or friends. Living with 3 other confident very sexually active people(2 guys 1 girl) has forced me to take a close look at how empty and lonely my life is. I've managed to repress these feeling for a few months by completely submerging myself in math work and electronics but the old feelings of shame are creeping back into the forefront of my consciousness. Despite the embarrasment I have over being a virgin, I intellectually understand how little of a deal it is to be a virgin at that age but im struggling to not identify with the thoughts and memories. The memories I refer to are memories of being told knowone loved me by bullies in high school and being told I would die a virgin by a girl in the same school.

 

I had one of the strangest experiences i've ever had two weeks ago. One of my housemates is a guy I've know since high school when we were 11 we're both 20 now. He was one of my few friends in high school but towards the end joined the crowd of people who would pick on me and call me names but we made up at uni. He's still in contact with the guys who bullied me in high school(tight knit gang of guys) and two weeks ago about 5 of them came to our place to visit him to go clubbing and they invited me to go along, I chose clubbing instead of topology for once on a friday night and found myself dancing in the middle of the club to music I normally avoid, with guys who I think have no idea how tormenting their words over the years have been for me. Despite this it felt like a strange cathartic experience where any hate, jealousy, anger I had towards these people slipped away; l was observing myself beginning to see these people as just other humans with fears, hopes, dreams instead of monsters hell bent on destroying any self love that I may have during the fragile years of adolescence. I regard that whole friday night/ saturday morning as probably one of the most strangest experiences i've ever had and an experience I needed and im thankful for. I feel like a lot of internal negative feelings towards the people in my past has gone all been at or least diluted by objective understanding of the sometimes beautiful innocence of human beings you can capture if you observe as I did in the club. However I still feel like my self worth, confidence is at the same place it was when I was 15 in math class being told I was worth nothing.

 

Due to this lack of self confidence I've never really pursued girls although they've pursued me. Females often try to talk to me but they quickly see where my self esteem is at and distance thereselves a few stay friendly however. My housemates question me and ask about my non existent romantic my life causing me to lie about being a virgin. Loneliness has become so normal to me that it is almost a friend and is becoming aloness. The funny thing about this is that my housemates all coming to me with their trial and tribulations of young adulthood life asking for advice and say they admire my simplicity, calmness and honesty but I would like to ask for advice with numerous things........

 

sorry for my indulgence just needed a place to release some things

 

Thanks.

[Humble]

I don't mean to sound crude when I say this ok? GO! GET! LAID! If you can't make peace with being a virgin then lose the identity of "virgin". Sex is both fun and natural. Prove the bullies (and the little kid inside you who believed all their nasty taunts) wrong and go be happy, successfull and a lady-killer (METAPHORICALLY!!!).

[Nikolai1]

First off, losing your virginity isn't going to do anything for your self-worth issues. Whatever baggage you have will just carry right over into your sex life. Women with low self-worth attempt to find it through making themselves sexually available, and up feeling worse. Men with low self-worth find that it takes confidence and a thick-skin to start a sexual career. We are not born super studs and there's lots that can happen in our performance that makes us feel even more inadequate.

 

So I don't want you to kid yourself that you feel bad about being a virgin because it goes deeper than that.

 

And I don't want you to think that it was the bullies you made you this way, because there was something already there that made you a victim.

 

To me you sound like pretty cool guy. People like you, talk to you, respect your opinion. Lets assume that your problem is in your own head.

 

There's good ways and bad ways of getting confidence. An intelligent guy like you, diligent and with marketable skills will probably find that once you are working and the money starts coming in, that a certain confidence will build. I have no doubt that women enough will come your way in time. Time, and the passage of time, rounds us off more or less and you'll be no exception.

 

But this is the bad way of getting confidence. Its unstable, it might feel that it depends on your external circumstances, and deep down this will show. People whose confidence is based on these externals make difficult partners because deep down the problems are still there. They don't trust their partners, deep down and control them more than is healthy. Plenty of relationships work this way but they're not good relationships. They're just passable.

 

Real confidence comes from a deep place. We won't go into that now, but I'm wondering why you're a lurker on a Taoist forum. There's a million forums out there that cater to lonely people with bad love lives.

 

So tell us, why do you log on here of all places?

[BlueMonk91]

First off, losing your virginity isn't going to do anything for your self-worth issues. Whatever baggage you have will just carry right over into your sex life. Women with low self-worth attempt to find it through making themselves sexually available, and up feeling worse. Men with low self-worth find that it takes confidence and a thick-skin to start a sexual career. We are not born super studs and there's lots that can happen in our performance that makes us feel even more inadequate.

 

So I don't want you to kid yourself that you feel bad about being a virgin because it goes deeper than that.

 

And I don't want you to think that it was the bullies you made you this way, because there was something already there that made you a victim.

 

To me you sound like pretty cool guy. People like you, talk to you, respect your opinion. Lets assume that your problem is in your own head.

 

There's good ways and bad ways of getting confidence. An intelligent guy like you, diligent and with marketable skills will probably find that once you are working and the money starts coming in, that a certain confidence will build. I have no doubt that women enough will come your way in time. Time, and the passage of time, rounds us off more or less and you'll be no exception.

 

But this is the bad way of getting confidence. Its unstable, it might feel that it depends on your external circumstances, and deep down this will show. People whose confidence is based on these externals make difficult partners because deep down the problems are still there. They don't trust their partners, deep down and control them more than is healthy. Plenty of relationships work this way but they're not good relationships. They're just passable.

 

Real confidence comes from a deep place. We won't go into that now, but I'm wondering why you're a lurker on a Taoist forum. There's a million forums out there that cater to lonely people with bad love lives.

 

So tell us, why do you log on here of all places?

 

I think it was your post in another thread that got me thinking. Well I read and joined the forums so I can learn more about Taoism in general, it's very interesting to read about how the ideas of taoism can be understood through personal experiences, so I often read about a personal experience on the general discussions that helps me understand something in the Tao Te Ching and also helps me understand things not directly related to taoism such as Gurdjieff, William James, Krishnamurti, Spinoza etc. I feel very immature and ignorant of many aspects of life which i why I am trying to read and understand religion, divine, God etc I've already found things on this forum very helpful in terms of dealing with anxiety which I think im getting better at.

[Nikolai1]

Well it seems by your reading interests that you're on the right track and your in the right place to ask all the questions you want.

 

You're going to be just fine!!

 

But get involved, get talking and chatting. Just don't ask me to explain the difference between an attribute and a substance!

[zanshin]

Do ask your housemates for advice them. Admitting to vulnerabilities like loneliness can be charming, of course too much becomes whining. But you have to connect with others to feel less lonely. Admitting you're a virgin for a 20 year old guy could be charming too, some girl is going be way into that, so don't pretend to be experienced til you are.

[三江源]

They don't trust their partners, deep down and control them more than is healthy.

 

What degree of control would be healthy?

[Marblehead]

Hey!, even I was a virgin once. No shame. (But sex is more fun.)

[Apech]

BlueMonk,

 

Just forget about it all. get on with your life. Do math and electronics .. topology ... whatever you are good at ... try to be very good at it ... in a few years you will be watching the others discussing where it all went wrong and you will be happy ... and shagging a lovely woman no doubt.

[BlueMonk91]

I just want to be at peace. I don't want to see other people go wrong just so that I can point out how the tables have turned. Being a virgin at 20 is not really the issue although I would like that to change, the problem is identifying with the self image of an outcast my mind has adopted as a result of bad experiences. I am getting on with my life the last year have been better than ages 15-19; I talk more, smile more, but still feel nothing has changed internally, im the same scared teenager.

 

Thanks

[thelerner]

I'm not a big fan of PUA, at its worst its cynical and manipulative, but the better stuff is about confidence, being outgoing and taking chances. The best of it, the stuff less about 'the hunt' and more about being a person who gives off a positive sexy vibe- might be what you're looking for. Hit a book store and look around.

 

There are a couple threads with videos here on the bums in the Off Topic section. You may want to read some of David Deida's work. He had a guest spot on one my favorite podcast's Infinite Smile as a guest speaker and at least includes a spiritual angle in his work on becoming a 'superior man'.

Edited November 13, 2012 by thelerner

[Pu-erh]

You sound like a good guy, BlueMonk. I suggest you try psychotherapy. It helped me a lot when I was your age (I'm 28 now), and I was also (verbally) bullied in high school. See if you can find a good therapist in your area. You may be able to get free counseling through your university.

 

The only other advice I can give you is to think about what you could do that would make you feel more self-confident. For example, maybe you would feel more self-confident if you started lifting weights or learned a martial arts. Being at university, you probably have classes available in your physical education department. At my school there was karate, aikido, tai chi, and yoga all available for free. If I were you I would take advantage of those resources.

 

Also, just as an afterthought, you might find it liberating to open up to your housemates about the fact that you are a virgin. Lying (or concealing the truth) probably just makes you feel worse about it.

[Aetherous]

I was once roommates with a pimp kinda dude. He had a different girl every weekend, whereas I barely saw two girls the entire semester and was still a virgin. We butted heads and I got a new roommate, who wasn't such a jerk (and didn't throw bars of soap at my head when I snored...jeez).

 

...but later on I asked him how he got with so many girls. He took the time to really try to help me with his advice, which he at one point needed himself. He learned it from some other people when he needed help with it...so you may want to ask your housemates for tips on how to man up. Join the man club. It's not so bad. It's good to have friends and work on developing yourself, and being successful.

 

Not trying to convince you to give up your character...you always have free will, and your own moral compass.

 

AND ALWAYS USE PROTECTION. ALWAYS.

 

...

 

One of the things the pimp dude did, even though he was already getting girls...he spent a lot of time caring about the gym and nutrition. Exercise will boost your confidence! Being lean and muscular will go a long way towards getting respect. And imagine if you looked something like this:

 

 

Your self esteem issues would hardly even matter. In that case, the shyness would be totally "cute" rather than something to avoid.

Edited November 13, 2012 by turtle shell

[Aetherous]

the problem is identifying with the self image of an outcast my mind has adopted as a result of bad experiences

 

There are some ideas out there...that there are beta males, and alpha males. Beta males are the weaker ones without girls, and alpha males are the strong ones with girls, etc.

 

But there is a third type. Omega male. Someone who is 'above' even the shallow alpha male, due to not even compromising himself to play the silly little game. Who leads life by principles. Who sees that the projected strength is usually only a facade. Who has a quiet calm, that is unshaken by whatever happens...AKA real strength. Things may bug him, especially the social weirdness...but it doesn't mean he's willing to change himself, as alphas do. He does what needs to be done. Rather than being outcast from the group, this person has always been a bit of an outsider...mostly due to just how he is, and his own choices.

 

Don't mistake yourself for a beta, when you're actually an omega. Knowing who you are, knowing a different form of strength to cultivate, as an alternative to embarrassment, might help.

Edited November 13, 2012 by turtle shell

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hey!, even I was a virgin once. No shame. (But sex is more fun.)

 

LOL. MARBLEHEAD...NOT HELPING>>>>

[Lucky7Strikes]

I was once roommates with a pimp kinda dude. He had a different girl every weekend, whereas I barely saw two girls the entire semester and was still a virgin. We butted heads and I got a new roommate, who wasn't such a jerk (and didn't throw bars of soap at my head when I snored...jeez).

 

...but later on I asked him how he got with so many girls. He took the time to really try to help me with his advice, which he at one point needed himself. He learned it from some other people when he needed help with it...so you may want to ask your housemates for tips on how to man up. Join the man club. It's not so bad. It's good to have friends and work on developing yourself, and being successful.

 

Not trying to convince you to give up your character...you always have free will, and your own moral compass.

 

AND ALWAYS USE PROTECTION. ALWAYS.

 

...

 

One of the things the pimp dude did, even though he was already getting girls...he spent a lot of time caring about the gym and nutrition. Exercise will boost your confidence! Being lean and muscular will go a long way towards getting respect. And imagine if you looked something like this:

 

 

Your self esteem issues would hardly even matter. In that case, the shyness would be totally "cute" rather than something to avoid.

 

Hahaha! Last place I thought I'd see Matthew Macanughy pic...on thetaobums...

[Lucky7Strikes]

I just want to be at peace. I don't want to see other people go wrong just so that I can point out how the tables have turned. Being a virgin at 20 is not really the issue although I would like that to change, the problem is identifying with the self image of an outcast my mind has adopted as a result of bad experiences. I am getting on with my life the last year have been better than ages 15-19; I talk more, smile more, but still feel nothing has changed internally, im the same scared teenager.

 

Thanks

 

Hey BlueMonk!

 

Try to find root in who you are. Don't listen to what society or your peers demand of you. Tell everyone you are a virgin and laugh about it (ok, maybe that can be a bit too much, but you see the point). There's so much um..what's the word...stigma? Or expectations placed on men today to all be these sexually oriented animals. I used to want to bang every hot women I saw because that's the way this advertisement generation is molded to think about beauty. Not true at all! Sex is usually pretty gross anyway and you'd be severely disappointed if you don't really connect with your partner. Especially after you ejaculate.

 

People are different. The trick is to examine within yourself and see what is society's garbage and what your body and energies are saying. You'd be surprised that it doesn't always want hundreds of women! Your emotions definitely wouldn't want that. So see what your needs and desires are as a human being unencumbered by your peers and social norms.

 

When sexuality is cherished, it can be a beautiful things you share with one other individual. You can have just one woman your entire lifetime, and if she is right for you, I'd think that's an infinitely richer sexual experience than having thousands of women but only in flesh. So stay a virgin if that's the natural path for you! If you are truly established in who you are, people around you begin to naturally respect your choices.

 

You already seem very highly self aware. That's great! Learn how to meditate man, and ask away here about practices.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Lucky7Strikes

[Nikolai1]

Hi bluemonk - I agree with what 7strikes was telling you

 

Sex is usually pretty gross anyway and you'd be severely disappointed if you don't really connect with your partner. Especially after you ejaculate.

 

So true!! (but people don't often talk about it)

 

You already seem very highly self aware. That's great! Learn how to meditate man, and ask away here about practices.

 

Yes, all this stuff is impossible to understand unless you use different methods of investigation than the usual rationality. Meditation is perhaps the keystone because I can't think of a spiritual path that doesn't include something like it. Personally, my path has been a very intellectual one in that for years I was a philosopher more than anything else. But philosophy and the search for truth only really yielded fruit when I combined it with sitting meditation.

 

Best of luck!!

[BlueMonk91]

There are some ideas out there...that there are beta males, and alpha males. Beta males are the weaker ones without girls, and alpha males are the strong ones with girls, etc.

 

But there is a third type. Omega male. Someone who is 'above' even the shallow alpha male, due to not even compromising himself to play the silly little game. Who leads life by principles. Who sees that the projected strength is usually only a facade. Who has a quiet calm, that is unshaken by whatever happens...AKA real strength. Things may bug him, especially the social weirdness...but it doesn't mean he's willing to change himself, as alphas do. He does what needs to be done. Rather than being outcast from the group, this person has always been a bit of an outsider...mostly due to just how he is, and his own choices.

 

Don't mistake yourself for a beta, when you're actually an omega. Knowing who you are, knowing a different form of strength to cultivate, as an alternative to embarrassment, might help.

 

I will try to see it that way, but is it really a practical way to live sounds like stoicism. I know im not a beta, im not really part of society. My housemate asks me why phone never rings? The same housemate frequently says jokingly that im alien visiting earth, my mum even says this but I think everyone has strangeness if you observe them in different situations. Is there a way of fitting in without comprising who your are?

[Fū Yue]

'Fitting in' is a myth. The very idea assumes we need to do something to get along with each other, which is not really the case. If you can accept people as they are, you will find yourself accepted in turn. Judgement can be felt among us humans, and most do not appreciate it, it makes them act in unnatural ways in an attempt to 'measure up', but really they just want to relax and be themselves.

 

I will try to see it that way, but is it really a practical way to live sounds like stoicism. I know im not a beta, im not really part of society. My housemate asks me why phone never rings? The same housemate frequently says jokingly that im alien visiting earth, my mum even says this but I think everyone has strangeness if you observe them in different situations. Is there a way of fitting in without comprising who your are?

 

You're human aren't you? So you already fit right in, no need to do anything else.

 

Take an interest in the life of others, let them tell you about themselves, enjoy their company - but don't try to 'fit in' with them, there's no need. almost all people, of all cultures, enjoy the simplest things, humor, music, art; some good stories, kindness, courtesy... it's not difficult to strike some common ground. It's the intent that counts, really, the attempt to genuinely reach out that people respond to and respect.

 

In this over complicated society, full of all of these ridiculous and complicated social mind games, a calm, non-judgmental attitude is like a breath of fresh air. When you are inwardly focused, inwardly steady, inwardly satisfied, people will respond outwardly to this.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Fū Yue

[BlueMonk91]

Hey BlueMonk!

 

Try to find root in who you are. Don't listen to what society or your peers demand of you. Tell everyone you are a virgin and laugh about it (ok, maybe that can be a bit too much, but you see the point). There's so much um..what's the word...stigma? Or expectations placed on men today to all be these sexually oriented animals. I used to want to bang every hot women I saw because that's the way this advertisement generation is molded to think about beauty. Not true at all! Sex is usually pretty gross anyway and you'd be severely disappointed if you don't really connect with your partner. Especially after you ejaculate.

 

People are different. The trick is to examine within yourself and see what is society's garbage and what your body and energies are saying. You'd be surprised that it doesn't always want hundreds of women! Your emotions definitely wouldn't want that. So see what your needs and desires are as a human being unencumbered by your peers and social norms.

 

When sexuality is cherished, it can be a beautiful things you share with one other individual. You can have just one woman your entire lifetime, and if she is right for you, I'd think that's an infinitely richer sexual experience than having thousands of women but only in flesh. So stay a virgin if that's the natural path for you! If you are truly established in who you are, people around you begin to naturally respect your choices.

 

You already seem very highly self aware. That's great! Learn how to meditate man, and ask away here about practices.

 

lol My body an energies yearn for the feminine but I think I have to beat social awkwardness before I even think about females. I am actively exploring the roots of who I am, I think loneliness with a clear head forces you to that if you don't try to escape the loneliness.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I third fourth or fifth the suggestion to learn how to meditate as it helps to steal back your focus which gets pulled about by external expectations, past experiences, thoughts about future outcomes. You need to be able to catch yourself falling into thoughts about the past and the future, and just do the present. When your sitting, just sit. When your washing the dishes, wash the dishes. When your talking to a girl, talk to the girl. Don't think about what might happen in the future, or base your current experience on past experiences. Just do the present and don't think too much about it. Start with just sitting and don't think too much about it. You're not going to disappear, your mind is not going to stop working, your not going to forget how to talk. Nor are you going to become He-Man. But you might begin to gain a great strength which few people work on.. this will give you the advantage that you won't fall to the disadvantage. This is all you need.

 

Btw, lots of girls love to "work on" guys. they like to take a shy awkward dude with a bit of potential and 'turn him into a man.' It's like their nurturing impulse that draws them to this, also knowing that these good guys are honest and if they can just "work him" a little bit, he will be *perfect.* The women that do this are usually very outgoing and sexually open/comfortable, actresses.. actresses, they do this.. I don't know why... maybe they just love the plot development...

 

don't put all your eggs in one basket either.. tunnel vision is a one way train.. plus, talking to other women ups your "perceived value" rather than seeming like nobody's buyin'... pushin' the product too hard seems like you don't believe it sells itself.

 

listen, ask

 

that's it..

[Lucky7Strikes]

lol My body an energies yearn for the feminine but I think I have to beat social awkwardness before I even think about females. I am actively exploring the roots of who I am, I think loneliness with a clear head forces you to that if you don't try to escape the loneliness.

 

Take it at your own pace for sure. We're all here to support each other!

 

Loneliness is a great gift, btw. It's one of the best things to ever happen to me at least.

[Aetherous]

Is there a way of fitting in without comprising who your are?

 

Yup, definitely. Be bold.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Dear BlueMonk91,

 

You are a good person with a pure heart. To keep your heart pure, clean of rust and debris is utmost important. Your spirit is much more developed than the guys who bullied you.

 

I will strongly advise to start aikido for instance, better Ki-Aikido (http://www.shinshintoitsuaikido.org/english/) or Aikido Yuishinkai (http://www.aikidoyuishinkai.com/)