... There's no need to argue anymore ...

[Aaron]

No point in continuing this thread. Apparently questioning something that's accepted by the majority as fact is frowned upon. Let this be a lesson to us all that we need to accept things blindly and not stir waves, lest we fall into the category of rabble rouser and "whinger".

Edited November 17, 2012 by Aaron

[Brian]

I think you should drop Ya Mu from your post as the inclusion suggests he is a proponent of TCM and/or that he proposes "alternative healing" as a replacement for "traditional medicine" -- neither is the case.

[Aaron]

I think you should drop Ya Mu from your post as the inclusion suggests he is a proponent of TCM and/or that he proposes "alternative healing" as a replacement for "traditional medicine" -- neither is the case.

 

I thank you for your advice, but I will keep his name here, since he is a proponent of alternative medical treatment and from my understanding (and in my opinion) his method is in the school of TCM (i.e. qigong, energy healing), even if he distances himself from it. Also the reason I started this thread was because Lao Tzu's thread was thrown to the pit, even though, after the editing done by the mods, I couldn't find any viable reason for it to happen.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Ya Mu even calls his method of treatment "Traditional Taoist Medicine and Stillness Movement Qigong", which to me (and I think the vast majority of people) is the same as Traditional Chinese Medicine. Exchanging Chinese for Taoist doesn't do much in my book.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Aaron

[Aetherous]

Big difference between alternative (meaning you don't use modern medicine) and complementary (meaning TCM or whatever is used on the side, with modern medicine being primary).

 

My view is that modern medicine is the bomb. The process of publishing research is nearly 100% reliable, and it's the standard to do evidence based practice. Of course it's imperfect, and maybe other forms of medicine can help prevent illness in a better way. (on the other hand, maybe they can't...if they do studies on it and find no correlation)

Edited November 16, 2012 by turtle shell

[Aetherous]

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1357513

 

This study shows that acupuncture is better for pain control (50% effective) than random needling (43%), and random needling (probably through gate control theory) is better than placebo (30%).

 

Of course, this doesn't come close to 100%, like drugs...

[Jetsun]

I meant to start a thread like this the other day rather than derail snowmonki's thread when I said that Chinese approach is very limited in many regards especially when it comes to treating emotional issues. If someone has some emotional trauma or abuse it is dehumanising and reductionistic to say it is due to a say a kidney qi imbalance, there may be such an imbalance but that is only a small part of the picture, yet you get many people in TCM and on this site who think you can reduce peoples lives down to simplistic organ imbalances.

 

This was part of the reply

"On the other hand the approach to 'shen disorders' in classical Chinese medicine is a deep and thorough subject, and is NOT simply about organ associations. TCM uses zangfu (organ) theory as it's backbone simply because it was the closest of the Chinese medical maps to Western anatomy. Zangfu has therefore become the main theory that everything in TCM is nailed to. This emphasis is in fact not the way the body, nor the systems of qi were viewed."

 

So it seems that what is regarded as TCM isn't really a very good representation of classical Chinese medicine especially when it comes to problems of the spirit which is such a fundamental aspect of healing.

[ChiDragon]

Aaron....

 

Good point...!!! I was going to start a thread similar to this one but you beat me to it.

 

Nowadays, the native Chinese practitioners of TCM tend to claim that TCM is preventive rather than a cure to an aliments. The efficacy of TCM are by words of mouth. Mostly lightly each individual case are described differently from each practitioner. TCM are only concerned with the results rather than having any connection with the modern scientific explanations. Hence, there is always a big conflict between the two systems.

 

Maybe, someday, someone who will step over the line to integrate the two systems with an explanation which will be acceptable for both sides.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[GrandmasterP]

There is plenty of refereed research out here showing that aspects of TCM are hugely effective and certainly in China some hospitals offer allopathic and TCM approaches complementary to one another. I'm no expert but I take the TCUGB journal and that sort of research gets reported in there.

QiGong is almost universally used in convalescent therapies as it is cheap, has few or no contraindications and has been proven in clinical trials to aid speedier recovery. They know what they are doing over there in China and hey have been doing it for a long long time.

Here in the west though I tend to treat some TCM offers with a very large pinch of salt indeed' here in the UK in many town centres and shopping malls you'll find a TCM shop. Some of those are operated on a franchise basis the shopkeepers pay to operate under the brand and all the stock comes from a central depot. The shop operator then pays the franchise holder a cut of the take.

Others are independent, the guy who runs one shop in our city centre is known to have failed as he proprietor of a Chinese takeway fast food outlet prior to rebranding himself as a Chinese doctor. I suspect those shops did better business before the recession bit and one at least in our area has shut down this past year for lack of business.

Anyone here in the west it seems can set up their shingle as a TCM practitioner and any snake oil salesperson with a tale to tell can pitch his or her woo via books and DVDs too as some do. Without naming names ( did that earlier and was warned off by mods) we all all aware of who sells what and claims to be able to do such and such. Those who believe in such persons, fair enough; it's your own health you are playing with.

My own view is to use what works if it works for you as QiGong did for me but to never try anything at all treatment-wise without first getting the OK from a qualified medical professional who knows your case and symptoms.

Edited November 16, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Ya Mu]

I think you should drop Ya Mu from your post as the inclusion suggests he is a proponent of TCM and/or that he proposes "alternative healing" as a replacement for "traditional medicine" -- neither is the case.

Yep, never have been, never will.

-----------------------------------------------

Aaron,

We practice complementary therapies, as I have posted over and over. If certain people would actually bother to read the threads they would understand this.

 

We practice real Taoism. Taoists are practical people. It would be foolish for any practical person to ignore whatever works (yes, this does imply that folks who ignore what works are not practical people). These foolish threads that keep popping up saying systems of medicine practiced by millions of people have no evidence are based on sImple ignorance, as this fact has been pointed out many times along with resources to help edify.

 

Someone posted in the other thread about if they had a broken leg they would only seek western medicine. Of course we seek what works - western medicine to set the bone, THEN, instead of staying drugged out but still in pain and unable to function in society, the high degree of efficacy of medical qigong or acupuncture, or other methods that do work would come into play. Mostly, knowledge of this is a matter of education. However there are those who prefer ignorance.

Ignorance is the real culprit here. And sometimes even when people have a chance to learn something they wish to bury their head in the sand . Our work in education is certainly cut out for us.

 

Aaron, for your edification, you should know that TCM generally refers to the traditional Chinese medicine as currently mandated, taught, and practiced by the Communists. Other forms that predate the cultural revolution, are generally referred to as classical Chinese medicine and, during the last 13 years or so in China have become rare due to government control. Then there are sub-specialties such as Taoist Medicine. Of course it is possible I have referred to what I teach as Traditional Chinese Medicine instead of Taoist Medicine or medical qigong or neigong on these boards but I do think you will see it written by me mostly as Chinese Taoist Medicine or medical qigong or clinical qigong.

 

 

....

Maybe, someday, someone who will step over the line to integrate the two systems with an explanation which will be acceptable for both sides.

Here you go, something you and Aaron didn't know existed, eh? Did you bother to research the subject? Neither of you did. http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/

You both are entirely misinformed. Western physicians are NOT ignorant of complementary therapies that work. In clinic, we have worked with many western physicians and many western physicians study medical qigong, acupuncture, and many other complementary modalities.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And, Aaron, for you to imply that the referenced thread was sent to the pit due to any moderator being a student of mine is insulting to both me and the moderators as it certainly isn't true. You are sorely mistaken, but probably knew that already.

[Clarity]

Ignorance is the real culprit here.

 

Agreed. Also, I would add 'arrogance' to the list. People who do not know or understand but pretend to have answers based on faulty assumptions, ignorance, and misinformation.

 

As to 'healing powers' we all have them, they are built in. At the physical level, our lymph/immune system removes rogue cells from our bodies every day, 24/7. This happens automatically without us having to think about it at all. The word 'power' is a problem because it triggers our experiences of being powerless and not knowing what's going on with our body, mind, and spirit.

 

There is a high level of physical intelligence built-in to the human organism. Mostly, our minds are completely ignorant of this reality because the mind wants to claim it's dominance over our lives and our physical presence on this planet.

[ChiDragon]

Ya Mu...

 

I had read some of the reports from some researchers; but most of them are just superficial words and not conclusive. They still do not show any correlation between the two systems. That was why I made such a statement.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.taichiunion.com/magazine/qigong_dementia.pdf

[Seth Ananda]

Stupid thread.

The 'Yamu please stop decieving' thread was not taken down because he has a following here, but because it was targeting and defamatory...

 

If I made a thread called 'Aaron, please stop being a whinger' it would rightly be taken down as well

 

And as others have also mentioned, anyone i have ever spoken too thinks of TCM as a complimentary and preventative therapy.

Its superb at some things, and less good at others... like Western medicine.

[Apech]

Just in case anyone (including Aaron) actually reads this post let me say this: I moved that thread by Lao Tzu to the Pit because it contained what Seth has called a defamatory statement. It is against the rules on here to make ad hominem attacks on anyone, anyone at all ... everyone knows that really cos we've been here so many times before. That includes imputing a motivation on what they do without proof or substantiation of any kind.

 

I am not a student of Mr. Lomax and I have never met him. Also I have no idea if his qi gong or healing actually works. And, in terms of moderation I don't actually care. If I were to Pit everything I thought didn't work or was bogus or perhaps not fully understood then the Pit would be more or less full and general Dis. would be more or less empty. I have never arbitrated over what is valid and what is not, its not my role to do this. I have no favourites in terms of moderation. OK?

[Aaron]

Just in case anyone (including Aaron) actually reads this post let me say this: I moved that thread by Lao Tzu to the Pit because it contained what Seth has called a defamatory statement. It is against the rules on here to make ad hominem attacks on anyone, anyone at all ... everyone knows that really cos we've been here so many times before. That includes imputing a motivation on what they do without proof or substantiation of any kind.

 

I am not a student of Mr. Lomax and I have never met him. Also I have no idea if his qi gong or healing actually works. And, in terms of moderation I don't actually care. If I were to Pit everything I thought didn't work or was bogus or perhaps not fully understood then the Pit would be more or less full and general Dis. would be more or less empty. I have never arbitrated over what is valid and what is not, its not my role to do this. I have no favourites in terms of moderation. OK?

 

Hello Apech,

 

All I said was it wasn't any surprise the post had been sent to the pit. I think we've had these kinds of threads before regarding the validity of teachers and they haven't been sent to the pit, so it's not like every time someone says something negative about another person's school or practice that they're immediately banned.

 

Now I know you're not a student of Ya Mu's, I had been under the impression a few other Mod's were, if that isn't true, then I retract that statement and apologize for my misinformation. If thinking that someone might react a bit more harshly to something someone said about someone who they're studying under than they would someone who they're not is imputing a motivation without proof, then of course I was imputing and should be banned for doing so. Of course I don't think it's imputing without motivation, rather it's putting two and two together.

 

I think there are more than a few people on this site, not just me, that feel Ya Mu receives a bit of special treatment and this has been mentioned in the past as well. I wont bring up all the old threads, but I will bring to mind the lineage wars from awhile back, one that caused us to lose another valued member (at least in my opinion).

 

Also I POINTED OUT that my post was not an attack on Ya Mu, but rather a reaction to what I view might have been a selective deletion of a thread. Again I read the redacted thread and found nothing on that thread that should have warranted it being moved to the pit. If anyone else can go there and pick out something that does, please feel free and I will recant my statement there too. We've had previous topics about other teachers that said similar things, however since they weren't practicing members, the threads weren't shut down (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Now, if you meant to intimidate me by saying, "That includes imputing a motivation on what they do without proof or substantiation of any kind..." keep in mind I don't impute without some kind of substantiation, even if I have in the past imputed incorrectly due to a misunderstanding. Even then I apologize, accept my blame and let the drama fall where it may, which it does.

 

The purpose of this thread isn't to discuss Ya Mu directly, but rather the practice of alternative and cooperative Traditional Chinese Medicine. I hope people can look past your post and this post and get this back on topic. If the topic includes Ya Mu, then it's only fair since he is a teacher of Traditional Taoism Medicine, which I think falls into this topic.

 

Keep in mind that I respect you a great deal. I value your input and view you as someone who has a font of esoteric knowledge that we can all value from, so this isn't meant to be an attack on you. If you didn't intend that statement as a means of intimidation, then I apologize, but I think if you examine it in the light of how it was written, it could be taken as such.

 

I'm done now, so I will return to the topic at hand.

 

Aaron

Edited November 17, 2012 by Aaron

[z00se]

TCM (including accupuncture, herbs, taoist & energy medicine, etc, etc) definately has benefits to improving your health, it is medicine after all, it's just slow working compaired to Western medicine. If i'm sick i want to use everything i can find to help me get better as fast as possible.

 

Western medicine couldn't help me for my illness (even though i went to a massive list of doctors), and i had to rely on TCM, and eventually i recovered. Also i think TCM is more about general health so for me it has also helped heal things that i forgot were even wrong with me, things i was so used to living with they became normal, but they just got better and i was very pleased.

 

I really can't understand why people what to knock Ya Mu. It seems very creditable from what i have seen, and if it works for some people that is great. If it doesn't work for you doesn't mean you have to knock it.

 

It's a shame that anybody who feels that they really have something great they want to share with others, and spend alot of time making how to videos and writing books gets so much anger thrown his way. How much time does someone need to waste replying to every attack written about his methods, and if he doesn't waste his time by not replying the attack is automatically viewed as justified and right.

 

Aaron why not spend your time doing something constructive in something that you feel is worthwhile rather than trying to crush the constructive efforts of others. It's a fact of life that these attacks are always going to happen, but why are you choosing to be full of negative energy when you could be positive? Are you enjoying yourself? You definately seem cultivated enough to know how to use your energy

 

(P.S. I do have one little attack of my own If that is Ya Mu in that video that got posted on here where the guy is shaking from his energy, while his method must allow for a large cultivation of chi to be able to do that, from the looks of it his method has no use for cultivating fashion sense )

[Aaron]

If I made a thread called 'Aaron, please stop being a whinger' it would rightly be taken down as well

 

What is a whinger? If you can tell me what it is, I will see if I can stop being one. Now if you meant whiner, then you might want to ask every journalist or whistle blower who decided to stand up for what they believed in to stop whining too. If it seems like whining to you, you might want to reconsider your views on freedom of expression. Or maybe you just think the only valuable comments are those that align with your own moral and social paradigm?

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Yep, never have been, never will.

-----------------------------------------------

Aaron,

We practice complementary therapies, as I have posted over and over. If certain people would actually bother to read the threads they would understand this.

 

We practice real Taoism. Taoists are practical people. It would be foolish for any practical person to ignore whatever works (yes, this does imply that folks who ignore what works are not practical people). These foolish threads that keep popping up saying systems of medicine practiced by millions of people have no evidence are based on sImple ignorance, as this fact has been pointed out many times along with resources to help edify.

 

Someone posted in the other thread about if they had a broken leg they would only seek western medicine. Of course we seek what works - western medicine to set the bone, THEN, instead of staying drugged out but still in pain and unable to function in society, the high degree of efficacy of medical qigong or acupuncture, or other methods that do work would come into play. Mostly, knowledge of this is a matter of education. However there are those who prefer ignorance.

Ignorance is the real culprit here. And sometimes even when people have a chance to learn something they wish to bury their head in the sand . Our work in education is certainly cut out for us.

 

Aaron, for your edification, you should know that TCM generally refers to the traditional Chinese medicine as currently mandated, taught, and practiced by the Communists. Other forms that predate the cultural revolution, are generally referred to as classical Chinese medicine and, during the last 13 years or so in China have become rare due to government control. Then there are sub-specialties such as Taoist Medicine. Of course it is possible I have referred to what I teach as Traditional Chinese Medicine instead of Taoist Medicine or medical qigong or neigong on these boards but I do think you will see it written by me mostly as Chinese Taoist Medicine or medical qigong or clinical qigong.

 

 

 

Here you go, something you and Aaron didn't know existed, eh? Did you bother to research the subject? Neither of you did. http://www.medicalacupuncture.org/

You both are entirely misinformed. Western physicians are NOT ignorant of complementary therapies that work. In clinic, we have worked with many western physicians and many western physicians study medical qigong, acupuncture, and many other complementary modalities.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And, Aaron, for you to imply that the referenced thread was sent to the pit due to any moderator being a student of mine is insulting to both me and the moderators as it certainly isn't true. You are sorely mistaken, but probably knew that already.

 

Yes medicalacupuncture.org has nothing to do with alternative medicine, so of course they're going to be objective with any studies they post... that was sarcasm. I have talked to you in the past and I was led to believe that you didn't exclusively practice complimentary therapies, if that isn't so, then I apologize.

 

This thread isn't necessarily about you either. I don't dislike you, despite what you might believe, nor would I try to "shut you down" if I had the opportunity. My reason for starting this thread up was to enable others to debate this topic if they wanted to. I understand it might make you uncomfortable or even a bit upset, if that's so I sincerely do apologize. Also I'm not asking that you stop teaching. If you're offering someone something they want, then there's no reason why you shouldn't provide it to them.

 

I'm sure you are practicing Taoism, just as we all are practicing Taoism. The fact, though, is that we should be careful when we claim authenticity or call our practice "real" Taoism, because then you are claiming others aren't practicing "real" Taoism, which is really subjective. What you might want to say is that you practice a long and historied school of Taoism.

 

Again, this isn't an attack, but an attempt to look at Traditional Chinese Medicine objectively, rather than subjectively. To gather objective and unbiased evidence to support or disprove TCM, to allow others the ability to freely discuss this topic. With that in mind I encourage others not to attack people for their beliefs or practices, but rather examine the practice. It's okay to bring up an example of a teacher, as I have with you, but it's not okay to make derogatory comments or baseless accusations.

 

So again, as I've said numerous times before, I don't think you're evil, nor do I think you have nefarious intentions, in fact you seem to be a very kind fellow, if not a bit emotional at times, but then we can all be emotional, especially when we're dealing with a belief we hold dearly. I hope that if you and others from the TCM schools (as well as those who might not agree with TCM) choose to participate in this discussion we can do so with an even head, keeping to the topic, without attacking each other's characters.

 

Did that come off as whiney? Hmm... well I hope not.

 

Aaron

Edited November 17, 2012 by Aaron

[Seth Ananda]

Lol, have a nice thread... Im sure it will be of high value to everyone involved

[henro]

I think you'll need to check the definition of Traditional Chinese Medicine for this discussion to continue. Most TCM programs in the USA and China include acupuncture, herbs, and tuina, with very little if any attention paid to qigong healing methods. I didn't read the thread that was sent to the pit, but it seems you're calling into question qigong healing, and it's proponents, not the entire field of Chinese medicine or the coalescence of practices we now call TCM.

[Aaron]

TCM (including accupuncture, herbs, taoist & energy medicine, etc, etc) definately has benefits to improving your health, it is medicine after all, it's just slow working compaired to Western medicine. If i'm sick i want to use everything i can find to help me get better as fast as possible.

 

Western medicine couldn't help me for my illness (even though i went to a massive list of doctors), and i had to rely on TCM, and eventually i recovered. Also i think TCM is more about general health so for me it has also helped heal things that i forgot were even wrong with me, things i was so used to living with they became normal, but they just got better and i was very pleased.

 

I really can't understand why people what to knock Ya Mu. It seems very creditable from what i have seen, and if it works for some people that is great. If it doesn't work for you doesn't mean you have to knock it.

 

It's a shame that anybody who feels that they really have something great they want to share with others, and spend alot of time making how to videos and writing books gets so much anger thrown his way. How much time does someone need to waste replying to every attack written about his methods, and if he doesn't waste his time by not replying the attack is automatically viewed as justified and right.

 

Aaron why not spend your time doing something constructive in something that you feel is worthwhile rather than trying to crush the constructive efforts of others. It's a fact of life that these attacks are always going to happen, but why are you choosing to be full of negative energy when you could be positive? Are you enjoying yourself? You definately seem cultivated enough to know how to use your energy

 

(P.S. I do have one little attack of my own If that is Ya Mu in that video that got posted on here where the guy is shaking from his energy, while his method must allow for a large cultivation of chi to be able to do that, from the looks of it his method has no use for cultivating fashion sense )

 

Hello z00se,

 

I'm not enjoying this, in fact I really don't have much of an emotional investment in this thread. I felt that the topic deserved to be talked about, so I posted it and posted the reasons why. I'm not an immensely negative person, although I will be the first to admit I'm not an immensely positive person either.

 

I have a few issues that cause the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up, censorship being one of them, so when I see something like that occurring, I tend to bring it out in the open. I have no issue with a thread being removed if it violates the TOS, however if it doesn't, or if I think things are being manipulated in order to censor something, without good reason (in my opinion), then I will more often than not say something.

 

In the past I have been critical of certain members, Sunlover/Tulku being one, but just as often those members I have been critical of have also earned my respect, Vaj being the first to come to mind. I also respect Ya Mu, believe it or not, but respect doesn't mean that I don't address a topic in order to spare his feelings. Sometimes, even when someone is acting in a compassionate way, others will still be harmed. This can't be helped, but it is important that we always do so in the most respectful method we are capable of. Also it's important to keep in mind that no one is perfect, so if someone does hurt our feelings, then we need to accept that they are human, but that doesn't mean the harm wasn't valid or real. I will try my best to address the topic without addressing Ya Mu in particular, since my desire isn't to harm him, but rather to talk about the topic at hand.

 

I also want to commend you on your comments. You were well spoken and I think expressed yourself quite well.

 

Aaron

 

edit- In regards to your signature, is the second line still talking about the first, because I will have to say that if someone doesn't want to set someone on fire, they really shouldn't just do it without consideration.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Aaron

[Aaron]

Lol, have a nice thread... Im sure it will be of high value to everyone involved

 

Why thank you. With your blessings I'm sure it will be.

 

Namaste

 

Aaron

[Ya Mu]

Hello Apech,

 

All I said was it wasn't any surprise the post had been sent to the pit. I think we've had these kinds of threads before regarding the validity of teachers and they haven't been sent to the pit, so it's not like every time someone says something negative about another person's school or practice that they're immediately banned.

 

Now I know you're not a student of Ya Mu's, I had been under the impression a few other Mod's were, if that isn't true, then I retract that statement and apologize for my misinformation. If thinking that someone might react a bit more harshly to something someone said about someone who they're studying under than they would someone who they're not is imputing a motivation without proof, then of course I was imputing and should be banned for doing so. Of course I don't think it's imputing without motivation, rather it's putting two and two together.

 

I think there are more than a few people on this site, not just me, that feel Ya Mu receives a bit of special treatment and this has been mentioned in the past as well. I wont bring up all the old threads, but I will bring to mind the lineage wars from awhile back, one that caused us to lose another valued member (at least in my opinion).

 

Also I POINTED OUT that my post was not an attack on Ya Mu, but rather a reaction to what I view might have been a selective deletion of a thread. Again I read the redacted thread and found nothing on that thread that should have warranted it being moved to the pit. If anyone else can go there and pick out something that does, please feel free and I will recant my statement there too. We've had previous topics about other teachers that said similar things, however since they weren't practicing members, the threads weren't shut down (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Now, if you meant to intimidate me by saying, "That includes imputing a motivation on what they do without proof or substantiation of any kind..." keep in mind I don't impute without some kind of substantiation, even if I have in the past imputed incorrectly due to a misunderstanding. Even then I apologize, accept my blame and let the drama fall where it may, which it does.

 

The purpose of this thread isn't to discuss Ya Mu directly, but rather the practice of alternative and cooperative Traditional Chinese Medicine. I hope people can look past your post and this post and get this back on topic. If the topic includes Ya Mu, then it's only fair since he is a teacher of Traditional Taoism Medicine, which I think falls into this topic.

 

Keep in mind that I respect you a great deal. I value your input and view you as someone who has a font of esoteric knowledge that we can all value from, so this isn't meant to be an attack on you. If you didn't intend that statement as a means of intimidation, then I apologize, but I think if you examine it in the light of how it was written, it could be taken as such.

 

I'm done now, so I will return to the topic at hand.

 

Aaron

Yes medicalacupuncture.org has nothing to do with alternative medicine, so of course they're going to be objective with any studies they post... that was sarcasm. I have talked to you in the past and I was led to believe that you didn't exclusively practice complimentary therapies, if that isn't so, then I apologize.

 

This thread isn't necessarily about you either. I don't dislike you, despite what you might believe, nor would I try to "shut you down" if I had the opportunity. My reason for starting this thread up was to enable others to debate this topic if they wanted to. I understand it might make you uncomfortable or even a bit upset, if that's so I sincerely do apologize. Also I'm not asking that you stop teaching. If you're offering someone something they want, then there's no reason why you shouldn't provide it to them.

 

I'm sure you are practicing Taoism, just as we all are practicing Taoism. The fact, though, is that we should be careful when we claim authenticity or call our practice "real" Taoism, because then you are claiming others aren't practicing "real" Taoism, which is really subjective. What you might want to say is that you practice a long and historied school of Taoism.

 

Again, this isn't an attack, but an attempt to look at Traditional Chinese Medicine objectively, rather than subjectively. To gather objective and unbiased evidence to support or disprove TCM, to allow others the ability to freely discuss this topic. With that in mind I encourage others not to attack people for their beliefs or practices, but rather examine the practice. It's okay to bring up an example of a teacher, as I have with you, but it's not okay to make derogatory comments or baseless accusations.

 

So again, as I've said numerous times before, I don't think you're evil, nor do I think you have nefarious intentions, in fact you seem to be a very kind fellow, if not a bit emotional at times, but then we can all be emotional, especially when we're dealing with a belief we hold dearly. I hope that if you and others from the TCM schools (as well as those who might not agree with TCM) choose to participate in this discussion we can do so with an even head, keeping to the topic, without attacking each other's characters.

 

Did that come off as whiney? Hmm... well I hope not.

 

Aaron

 

Also I POINTED OUT that my post was not an attack on Ya Mu, but rather a reaction to what I view might have been a selective deletion of a thread. Again I read the redacted thread and found nothing on that thread that should have warranted it being moved to the pit. If anyone else can go there and pick out something that does, please feel free and I will recant my statement there too. We've had previous topics about other teachers that said similar things, however since they weren't practicing members, the threads weren't shut down (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Aaron, AFTER Apech pointed out to you why he moved that thread then you have the gall to write this? He TOLD you why it was moved. These type of personal attacks have no business on this board and help no one.

 

1) Medicalacupuncture.org is a PHYSICIAN site of PHYSICIAN only members - NOT "alternative medicine". If you would bother to look at it you would know this.

 

2) You keep referring to me as a "TCM teacher", even after I corrected you and went to the trouble of explaining what TCM is as well as what I do. Once again, I do not teach TCM.

 

3) Your continued attempt to make it sound like you are being reasonable while at the same time attempting to stir up trouble is easy to see through. You make reference, as you did in the past, to me being responsible for another person being banned - this is a total fabrication on your part, even though the last time you started this bullshit you were informed it wasn't true. If I even participated in the thread you are making reference to it wasn't very much participation. Please refrain from your lies.

 

4) If you REALLY wished to only start a thread about TCM efficacy you would have left my name out of it as I am not associated with TCM - but you saw it as a prime opportunity to start some more of your uninformed and ignorant nonsense. If you REALLY wish for a thread on TCM efficacy please remove my name from your posts. The fact is you don't know a thing about TCM or qigong or medical qigong or neigong. I studied TCM for over 10 years and don't particularly like it. But you don't see me trashing it, as it certainly is a valid system of medicine. You would know of this validity if you bothered to do the research instead of ulterior motive thread starting.

 

5) Quit insinuating that I receive some type of special treatment on this board. It is another of your fabrications where you wish to attempt to sway opinion of this board to your ignorant ramblings viewpoints. I sincerely doubt that your statement that others feel this to be true is nothing other than another one of your psychological ploys to make people THINK that others believe this. Can't you see that people can see through this? People here are not dumb.

 

6) I do know what "real" Taoism is and certainly CAN claim authenticity as I actually studied Taoism (didn't just "read a book or two") and practice it everyday.

 

7) Please stop this throwing of insults.

[三江源]

Lol, have a nice thread... Im sure it will be of high value to everyone involved

 

[Aaron]

Now you may move this post to the pit as well and lets hope no one else decides to question anyone else's belief systems. I'm currently suffering from a cold and I don't have the energy or desire to carry on this discussion.

 

Aaron