DreamBliss VS Belief

[DreamBliss]

I'm ripping off Sinfest's idea here Hopefully I will follow their example correctly... So let's dive in, shall we?

 

I don't believe in fate or destiny.

 

I'm not sure I believe in balance, karma, judgement or punishment either.

 

I'm starting to believe that the afterlife I will experience when my time in this form is over will be exactly whatever I believe it will be, so I am choosing to be free to experience all afterlives, those based on humanity's beliefs and those which exist outside them.

 

I'm also trying to focus on the God who exists outside of all humanity's belief when I pray.

 

I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free.

 

I am removing all attatchment to my beliefs.

 

So now I leave you to challenge my perceptions here. Convince me that the things I don't believe in do exist. Or convince me that the things I do believe in don't exist.

 

The challenge has been issued. Begin!

DreamBliss

Edited November 19, 2012 by DreamBliss

[Fū Yue]

you don't have to believe in karma for it to be real. It's just cause and effect, which is self-evident, I mean... your belief that the afterlife you experience when your time in this form is over being exactly as you believe it to be... that's cause and effect. You posting this based on inspiration from sinfest's thread, that's cause and effect. That's karma. It's as simple as that.

[Apech]

...

 

I'm starting to believe that the afterlife I will experience when my time in this form is over will be exactly whatever I believe it will be, so I am choosing to be free to experience all afterlives, those based on humanity's beliefs and those which exist outside them.

 

I'm also trying to focus on the God who exists outside of all humanity's belief when I pray.

 

I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free.

 

....

 

You think that the afterlife will be whatever you believe it to be and yet if you achieve your aim you will have no beliefs .. so what then?

 

What is this God that you believe in? existing outside of everyone else's belief? What is that? Why do you believe in it?

 

Redefine be-lief as 'love to be' ... e.g. I love to be free = I believe in freedom. You posit something of value (a state of freedom) for yourself which you feel you do not already have ... you work towards it ... this is belief. Perhaps you believe you can understand your self or life itself ... you work towards understanding = you believe in understanding ... and so on.

[Marblehead]

Hi Fu Yue,

 

Yeah, someone just recently suggested that it is my karma to not believe in karma. That's okay. Yes, cause and effect rule!

 

 

Hi DreamBliss,

 

Okay. What you don't believe in I too don't believe in (within limitations).

 

Of the things you do believe in, except for this: I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free. I would have to question as I have never seen any evidence to support such beliefs.

 

Yes, choose free will. But always remember that there are limiters. I still can't fly unaided, and likely never will be able to. I have said before and I will say again, we should periodically test our limits - test our capabilities and capacities. But let's not pretend that we can fly when we can't. I am sure the floating from a 60 story building would be really neat but I think the sudden stop when we hit the ground would be a little rough.

[pennyofheaven]

I'm ripping off Sinfest's idea here Hopefully I will follow their example correctly... So let's dive in, shall we?

 

I don't believe in fate or destiny.

 

I'm not sure I believe in balance, karma, judgement or punishment either.

 

I'm starting to believe that the afterlife I will experience when my time in this form is over will be exactly whatever I believe it will be, so I am choosing to be free to experience all afterlives, those based on humanity's beliefs and those which exist outside them.

 

I'm also trying to focus on the God who exists outside of all humanity's belief when I pray.

 

I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free.

 

I am removing all attatchment to my beliefs.

 

So now I leave you to challenge my perceptions here. Convince me that the things I don't believe in do exist. Or convince me that the things I do believe in don't exist.

 

The challenge has been issued. Begin!

DreamBliss

 

So in choosing to be free you have let go of all your beliefs? If so, there are no beliefs to challenge. Perhaps I am not getting what the challenge is?

[pennyofheaven]

Hi Fu Yue,

 

Yeah, someone just recently suggested that it is my karma to not believe in karma. That's okay. Yes, cause and effect rule!

 

 

Hi DreamBliss,

 

Okay. What you don't believe in I too don't believe in (within limitations).

 

Of the things you do believe in, except for this: I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free. I would have to question as I have never seen any evidence to support such beliefs.

 

Yes, choose free will. But always remember that there are limiters. I still can't fly unaided, and likely never will be able to. I have said before and I will say again, we should periodically test our limits - test our capabilities and capacities. But let's not pretend that we can fly when we can't. I am sure the floating from a 60 story building would be really neat but I think the sudden stop when we hit the ground would be a little rough.

 

Hey you, long time no see. Hope all is well!

Edited November 19, 2012 by pennyofheaven

[Marblehead]

Hey you, long time no see. Hope all is well!

Hey You! Yes it has been a long time no see. All is well here, thanks. I hope all has been well with you and yours.

[thelerner]

I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free.

 

I am removing all attatchment to my beliefs.

 

The challenge has been issued. Begin!

DreamBliss

I don't think beliefs are so much chains as they are filters. Perhaps an analogy is they're like sunglasses. Sometimes in the harsh light of day we need something to block out the harsh glare so we can concentrate on where we're going. On the hand you don't want glasses that knock out a whole color range.

So imo having beliefs can be good, no sense going through life too wishy washy. Getting so attached to them you can't see pieces of reality or both sides of an issue, not so good.

[GrandmasterP]

So you believe in letting go of beliefs?

[Protector]

COPYRIGHT POLICE!

 

 

 

 

Who cares about words, what you think as karma or destiny is a different thing for someone else. Calling it anything doesn't help it.

Packing bags for afterlife is dumb when you'll have to throw them all away.

[GrandmasterP]

Tell that to Pharaoh Tutankhamun.

[Protector]

I did, he didn't answer and so I guess I could take all his stuff

Then I will have to give all his stuff plus some of mine to somebody else

Man, will this ever end?

[GrandmasterP]

[Protector]

The silver swan, who living had no note,

When death approached, unlocked her silent throat.

Leaning her breast upon the reedy shore,

Thus sang her first and last, and sang no more:

"Farewell, all joys! o death, come close mine eyes!"

More geese than swans now live, more fools than wise.

 

Favorite poems

[Fū Yue]

Also, what is an 'afterlife' in the first place? What does that even mean, how can there be anything after life? Life is a continuous process! if you want to see the afterlife, just take a look at the moment which just passed you by. There is the sum total of all of your good and bad experiences, there is your reincarnation, there is your destiny. You totally disappear from 'existence' every night, then 'you' come back somehow (?!) and act as though you are just picking up where you left off (which is where, exactly?).

[Stosh]

I'm ripping off Sinfest's idea here Hopefully I will follow their example correctly... So let's dive in, shall we?

 

I don't believe in fate or destiny.

 

I'm not sure I believe in balance, karma, judgement or punishment either.

 

I'm starting to believe that the afterlife I will experience when my time in this form is over will be exactly whatever I believe it will be, so I am choosing to be free to experience all afterlives, those based on humanity's beliefs and those which exist outside them.

 

I'm also trying to focus on the God who exists outside of all humanity's belief when I pray.

 

I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free.

 

I am removing all attatchment to my beliefs.

 

So now I leave you to challenge my perceptions here. Convince me that the things I don't believe in do exist. Or convince me that the things I do believe in don't exist.

 

The challenge has been issued. Begin!

DreamBliss

 

Im not trying to convince you of anything

But I have an introspective question for you to ask yourself

Once you have removed the ( 'attatchment' or loyalty) to the stuff mentioned

How do you feel about that which is left ?

Could you function well , your 'world' still holding together?

Do you feel -free and comfortable- or -confused and alone?

 

To put 'us' to the task of shifting you from your resultant state

doesnt make much sense , because if you are ' good with it '

we wouldnt be helping ,,, and if you werent pleased

you could- would already choose the other path.

 

Suggestions might help resolve individual points of dissatisfaction

but the general game plan is really for your personal introspection foremost.

 

Maybe youre just fine as you are!

[DreamBliss]

you don't have to believe in karma for it to be real. It's just cause and effect...

 

Is it really? I mean sure, I hit some big dude, he lays me out on the floor, that's certainly cause and effect, but its not karma as I understand it. Karma would be something like I was a violent person in a past life and I hit a lot of people, so now I hit this big guy in this life and get my block knocked off

 

Karma is supposed to something like a bunch of issues you've been carrying around with you from previous lives that you have to work out. So naturally to believe in karma you have to believe in reincarnation, which is one of mankind's beliefs about the afterlife. So if there is no reincarnation, there is no karma.

- DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

You think that the afterlife will be whatever you believe it to be and yet if you achieve your aim you will have no beliefs .. so what then?

 

What is this God that you believe in? existing outside of everyone else's belief? What is that? Why do you believe in it?.

 

What exists outside of belief is the pure, unfiltered, unaltered, real truth.

 

I guess I chose that definition of God because as Christian I put God in a box, or rather a book called the Bible. It was my attempt to free God. But I screwed up Here is my current definition:

 

I believe in God,

As the Source existing,

In whole or in any part,

Outside mankind's beliefs,

Or inside mankind's beliefs,

Or as any combination of the two.

 

I'll think about the rest of what you said.

- DreamBliss

Edited November 20, 2012 by DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

Okay. What you don't believe in I too don't believe in (within limitations).

 

Of the things you do believe in, except for this: I believe our beliefs are chains which bind us or allow us to be controlled and I choose to be free. I would have to question as I have never seen any evidence to support such beliefs.

 

This should have been blatantly obvious. As Christian I followed the 10 commandments. I believed I was a sinner, that when I broke any of these, I sinned. But these laws are mankind's laws, not universal laws. They are there to keep me from killing who I want, sleeping with who or what I want, and worshipping who or what I want, among other things. In this sense then my belief in these laws controls me and keeps me from acting like an animal. Furthermore, by believing I am a sinner I also believe I need to be saved, and of course only belief in Jesus, in a certain way, will save me. This keeps me a slave to God and this idea of the afterlife. In essence I become a slave to the beliefs of man in Heaven or Hell. I would end up, had I stayed in a Christian, in one of these, based on my beliefs. Also by believing I am a sinner I am in a perpetual cycle of sinning and forgiveness. Because I believe myself to be a sinner, I am. That make any sense? Of course others, who know the intricasies of the Christian faith, know how to use my beliefs against me.

 

Yes, choose free will. But always remember that there are limiters. I still can't fly unaided, and likely never will be able to. I have said before and I will say again, we should periodically test our limits - test our capabilities and capacities. But let's not pretend that we can fly when we can't. I am sure the floating from a 60 story building would be really neat but I think the sudden stop when we hit the ground would be a little rough.

 

An interesting experiement could be done here someday. Raise someone in a holographic environment where a child can be raised outside of any idea of the solidy of objects. Then plop them in the real world. Remember they have no preconcieved ideas of solidity. So can they walk through walls? Because remember our beliefs create our reality. You and I can't fly because we have been programmed to believe in gravity, the laws of physics, and so forth. But how would the world be to someone who truly believed they could fly and defy gravity?

 

Best rest assured, I'm not jumping off any buildings just yet -

DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

So in choosing to be free you have let go of all your beliefs? If so, there are no beliefs to challenge. Perhaps I am not getting what the challenge is?

 

Alternate viewpoints

- DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

So you believe in letting go of beliefs?

 

I believe so...

DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

Who cares about words, what you think as karma or destiny is a different thing for someone else. Calling it anything doesn't help it.

Packing bags for afterlife is dumb when you'll have to throw them all away.

 

But isn't this just your belief?

- DreamBliss

Edited November 20, 2012 by DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

Also, what is an 'afterlife' in the first place? What does that even mean, how can there be anything after life? Life is a continuous process! if you want to see the afterlife, just take a look at the moment which just passed you by. There is the sum total of all of your good and bad experiences, there is your reincarnation, there is your destiny. You totally disappear from 'existence' every night, then 'you' come back somehow (?!) and act as though you are just picking up where you left off (which is where, exactly?).

 

It is wherever I go when I am no longer inside this fleshy container.

- DreamBliss

[DreamBliss]

My current manifesto of belief:

 

I believe in God,

As the Source existing,

In whole or in any part,

Outside mankind's beliefs,

Or inside mankind's beliefs,

Or as any combination of the two.

 

I believe in an afterlife,

Existing, in whole or any part,

Outside mankind's beliefs,

Or inside mankind's beliefs,

Or as any combination of the two,

And I choose to travel freely through it.

 

I do not believe,

In fate or destiny,

Balance or karma,

Judgement or punishment,

But I accept the possibility,

That any of these may exist.

 

I believe our beliefs create our reality,

When they are wrong we can't see the truth,

So I choose to be unattatched to my beliefs.

To flow in my ideal life's ideal course,

At this moment, in each and every moment,

Seeking the Source and the Truth.

 

This is a continuing work in project -

- DreamBliss

Edited November 20, 2012 by DreamBliss

[Fū Yue]

Is it really? I mean sure, I hit some big dude, he lays me out on the floor, that's certainly cause and effect, but its not karma as I understand it. Karma would be something like I was a violent person in a past life and I hit a lot of people, so now I hit this big guy in this life and get my block knocked off

 

Karma is supposed to something like a bunch of issues you've been carrying around with you from previous lives that you have to work out. So naturally to believe in karma you have to believe in reincarnation, which is one of mankind's beliefs about the afterlife. So if there is no reincarnation, there is no karma.

- DreamBliss

 

'Karma is supposed to be... '

 

Right. How would you know what karma is supposed to be? Based on past experiences and positive or negative impressions and reactions? Look at the way your mind works, everything in the past is used as basis for future experience, the present a conglomeration of positive and negative chain reactions passed off as though it were a coherent whole, and this you call your self, this you use as a template for your world, this you use as a template for your view, for the recognition of various senses and so on.

 

This entire perception you carry around with you, moment after moment, and where is the continuity? This conglomeration of positive and negative experiences, thus clung to and defined as self, and the gradual unraveling of these conditions which are thus clung to and defined as time, this is karma.

 

It is wherever I go when I am no longer inside this fleshy container.

- DreamBliss

 

It is only your belief that you are to be found anywhere inside of this body. What makes you think it's the truth? If the body stubs its toe, there is pain, where are you? Body goes to the store, where do you go? Aren't you the one clutching on to this 'fleshy container' for dear life?