...

[silent thunder]

I've come to a point in my perception where I begin to see the 'drug-like' qualities in all life.

Emotions are drugs, air, water, thought, sugar, caffeine, vegetables, meat, sunlight, driving, sports, conversations. Hell, you should feel the vibes I get when I know I'm logging on to read this forum... heheh it's pure awesome.

 

The two most powerful highs I've experienced were from air and water.

Pranayama breathing nearly sent me out of body and I spent hours afterward, reeling in a full body high with my Mingmen red hot and about 1' in diameter. At the time, I didn't even know what a mingmen was rofl.

 

Another time, I went for a spontaneous rock climb and ended up dehydrating badly. By the time I reached the river and started to drink, I could feel the water filling my cells. The bliss associated with that has dwarfed most other experiences.

 

Everything can have a drug-like interaction with the human system.

 

For me, the dance of life is the balance.

Am I in balance in this moment?

Am I awake?

[hydrogen]

That's the English translation. I haven't read anything relating to the practice dealing with drug use.

 

Well, the Chinese words are more revealing "make the golden pill" or "immortal drug".

[ChiForce]

I've come to a point in my perception where I begin to see the 'drug-like' qualities in all life.

Emotions are drugs, air, water, thought, sugar, caffeine, vegetables, meat, sunlight, driving, sports, conversations. Hell, you should feel the vibes I get when I know I'm logging on to read this forum... heheh it's pure awesome.

 

The two most powerful highs I've experienced were from air and water.

Pranayama breathing nearly sent me out of body and I spent hours afterward, reeling in a full body high with my Mingmen red hot and about 1' in diameter. At the time, I didn't even know what a mingmen was rofl.

 

Another time, I went for a spontaneous rock climb and ended up dehydrating badly. By the time I reached the river and started to drink, I could feel the water filling my cells. The bliss associated with that has dwarfed most other experiences.

 

Everything can have a drug-like interaction with the human system.

 

For me, the dance of life is the balance.

Am I in balance in this moment?

Am I awake?

We know what we are talking about here, drugs like weed and other hallucinogens that are designed to alter our minds and making our minds to see things. Afterward, people crashed and feeling withdrawn. Eventually, one becomes addicted and dependent on them until who knows what would happen. We aren't talking about water and air or food.

[hydrogen]

We know what we are talking about here, drugs like weed and other hallucinogens that are designed to alter our minds and making our minds to see things.

 

So what things did you see when you're on drugs? thanks.

[silent thunder]

We know what we are talking about here, drugs like weed and other hallucinogens that are designed to alter our minds and making our minds to see things. Afterward, people crashed and feeling withdrawn. Eventually, one becomes addicted and dependent on them until who knows what would happen. We aren't talking about water and air or food.

 

I hear you, you're talking about illegal drugs, drugs on society's naughty list.

 

I'm talking about anything that has a cascading stimulus on my system. It's semantics, but for me, I can't divide them too far.

 

Anything that impacts me, has a 'drug-like' quality as related to my system, as I perceive it.

 

Anything, especially anything with a clear 'cascade effect' can boost or hinder experience. In the end, all experience is applied to practice as practice is all of my life. I just don't shut myself off to certain experiences because I was told to, or learned it in a book. I've been compelled to explore certain things that weren't and aren't sanctioned by my culture, because my system resonated positively to it.

 

I used to think that a drug was a plant or chemical I had to ingest.

I now perceive that every interaction is a drug of sorts.

 

Side note: related to practice being all of life... I've been intending to run MCO in my dream state recently. Last night, after about a week of sending intention before I sleep, I became lucid during a dream in which I was part man, part tree, running MCO through a large transparent egg in my trunk. I woke up from that so high lol... pure awesome!

[gj551]

Side note: related to practice being all of life... I've been intending to run MCO in my dream state recently. Last night, after about a week of sending intention before I sleep, I became lucid during a dream in which I was part man, part tree, running MCO through a large transparent egg in my trunk. I woke up from that so high lol... pure awesome!

mco is good please post our success, which points do you use to circulate it up the tu mo and down the jen mo channel? im in favour of your endeavour. they talk about neidan/internal alchemy, so does there exist waidan/external alchemy? does external mean to use things from the outside like plants or some vegetables? theres this ko hung ("ge hong") person. this text has references to ingrediences like "black fat" or cinnabar. get a hold of the lieh hsien ch'üan chuan. it does resemble western alchemy to some degree because he does mention a lot of chemicals like arsenic sulfide or blue alum.

 

 

Preparing medicines and elixirs can be referred to as outer practices or weidan as these practices occur outside of the body until they are verified by the ingestion of medicines, herbs, and pills to bring about physical changes within the body

(wiki)

Edited June 4, 2013 by gj551

[silent thunder]

mco is good please post our success, which points do you use to circulate it up the tu mo and down the jen mo channel?

 

inhale: Dan Tien, Hui Ying, Ming Men, Da Tsui, Bai Hui.

exhale: Mai Zhong, San Jeng, Tan Zhong, Dan Tien.

 

Although we first run in reverse, inhaling up the Ren and down the Du for a few cycles, before switching course and following the natural current of the river.

 

im in favour of your endeavour. they talk about neidan/internal alchemy, so does there exist waidan/external alchemy? does external mean to use things from the outside like plants or some vegetables?

 

Yea, I think external would mean anything you ingest or apply, plant pastes, herbs, injections.

 

theres this ko hung ("ge hong") person. this text has references to ingrediences like "black fat" or cinnabar. get a hold of the lieh hsien ch'üan chuan. it does resemble western alchemy to some degree because he does mention a lot of chemicals like arsenic sulfide or blue alum.

I'm fascinated by herbology and I know there are some really potent herbs out there. I had a Chinese herbalist help me with a broken clavicle that wasn't healing well. After six weeks of using herbs and qi treatment, the bone growth astounded my orthopedic surgeon. This after 8 weeks of troubling slow progress and being told I would likely only regain 50% strength and mobility in that shoulder.

 

External and Internal stimuli are both equally relevant to me, though not equally potent. Every system is unique.

 

My teacher has never prescribed any herbs for me personally, all treatments have been qi to this point. But I know that when you start to learn the third form in the series, he prepares an herbal mixture that you take during a 90 day process that has 'permanent boost' affects on the system, (according to those who have done it).

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Can you be aware of the present moment? the arising, experiencing, passing, and non-existence, of the inner origin of thoughts when under the influence?

 

It sort of gives you something to be aware of, though could make someone dependent on that or focused on that instead of being self aware, being more aware of the substance present instead of the present's presence..

 

 

 

or seeking out to the drug for stimulation instead of the present.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[hydrogen]

Can you be aware of the present moment? the arising, experiencing, passing, and non-existence, of the inner origin of thoughts when under the influence?

 

Why don't you try it and report back since you're so interested?

[silent thunder]

I find the only thing getting in the way of my experience of the now is myself.

Unfortunately myself is comprised of everything in the known universe, so there is a plethora of things to focus on, other than the present moment.

 

It sure is an amazing journey though.

[i am]

Can you be aware of the present moment? the arising, experiencing, passing, and non-existence, of the inner origin of thoughts when under the influence?

 

It sort of gives you something to be aware of, though could make someone dependent on that or focused on that instead of being self aware, being more aware of the substance present instead of the present's presence..

 

 

 

or seeking out to the drug for stimulation instead of the present.

The only issue I've found with weed, other than the fact that it dulls my mind over time, is that it makes me SO in the moment and connected to my body and myself, that it could become habit forming. I wish I could keep that connection all the time.

 

I believe that I can, with work. But weed just hands it to me.

 

It's not an artificial experience. It allows me to quiet down all the external stimulus and thoughts and static and confusion in my head, and focus on what's going on with my body and mind.

 

AKA, a shortcut to what many beginners are going for with the early stages of their cultivation. I'm very careful to not feel that I need it to get to this state, but it is a very easy way to get there.

 

It can also, though, have the opposite effect, depending on where my head is at, or if I overdo it. It can cause an inability to focus, and send me on more of a "head trip" instead of being grounded and tied to myself. Like when you lay down at night and everything is going through your head, rather that being able to shut down and focus.

 

It can have either effect, depending.

 

The "under the influence" stuff annoys me. This isn't alcohol, which I believe is the only recreational drug that allows you lose control and do things your conscience would normally not allow you to do. I'm not talking about opening yourself up, allowing experiences you're normally too uptight or narrow minded to experience, like a lot of other drugs do. I'm talking doing stupid, harmful shit. That's alcohol, when it's abused.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Why don't you try it and report back since you're so interested?

It's not my reality that determines your reality.. the answer to this question is, imo, what would indicate to someone if drugs make practice impossible or not. I would imagine some cannot and some can -- it's just a question to ask one's self. No assumptions made.

 

 

I find the only thing getting in the way of my experience of the now is myself.

Unfortunately myself is comprised of everything in the known universe, so there is a plethora of things to focus on, other than the present moment.

 

It sure is an amazing journey though.

Agreed, and it could be said that the less we are aware of ourselves, the more we become a part of everything, the more we experience the truth of our dependent origination and transcend our "ego." On the other side, there is a point when we are not aware of the fact that we are simply trying to amass a self/ego and so then this awareness is needed.

 

Philosophy is confusing though, and sometimes more so than clarifying, so I'd best stop there.

 

The only issue I've found with weed, other than the fact that it dulls my mind over time, is that it makes me SO in the moment and connected to my body and myself, that it could become habit forming. I wish I could keep that connection all the time.

 

I believe that I can, with work. But weed just hands it to me.

 

It's not an artificial experience. It allows me to quiet down all the external stimulus and thoughts and static and confusion in my head, and focus on what's going on with my body and mind.

 

AKA, a shortcut to what many beginners are going for with the early stages of their cultivation. I'm very careful to not feel that I need it to get to this state, but it is a very easy way to get there.

 

It can also, though, have the opposite effect, depending on where my head is at, or if I overdo it. It can cause an inability to focus, and send me on more of a "head trip" instead of being grounded and tied to myself. Like when you lay down at night and everything is going through your head, rather that being able to shut down and focus.

 

It can have either effect, depending.

 

The "under the influence" stuff annoys me. This isn't alcohol, which I believe is the only recreational drug that allows you lose control and do things your conscience would normally not allow you to do. I'm not talking about opening yourself up, allowing experiences you're normally too uptight or narrow minded to experience, like a lot of other drugs do. I'm talking doing stupid, harmful shit. That's alcohol, when it's abused.

 

I think "under the influence" is a pretty apt term, since "plant friends" like cannabis are very influential. When they are present, you can not not be influenced by them. Being aware of how they influence you, though, might have it's benefits. But like you said, the highs are paid for by the lows, so one needs to know what they can afford to gamble and lose, or they'll be broke and stuck in the desert with no idea how to get back home!

 

Also, imo, given the medicinal uses of weed throughout history, I'd be surprised if there weren't a number of times that its down-sides were accounted for and accepted.

 

To each one's own, and wisdom for all...

[i am]

Indeed.

[konchog uma]

 

suggest some examples of those few you speak of that have gone from a drug-taking base to these more "traditional" methods/evolution....

 

Baba Ram Dass and Ralph Metzner, for modern famous examples

 

i think its an interesting phrase "drug taking base" that you use.. because if drugs are the base of one's explorations, it seems that there is a real limitation and dangers there. If one is exploring the connection between mind/energy/body, aka the "spiritual path" then mind/energy/body itself would IMO make a better base than drugs for their progress. I have seen a lot of seekers from old sixties heads to young people in the evolver movement to the blather on reality sandwich and it all makes me think that very few people are using drugs effectively. It also makes me think that most of them think that it is Very effective because they are having insights and unlocking parts of themselves which they know no other way to explore. I will say that I have never heard of anyone who achieved either enlightenment or immortality by means of drugs, but a good many daoists did die of various poisoning in their attempts, and a good many more have died of internal complications brought on by intoxicants, i imagine.

 

On a good note, I will say that one modern seeker who, IMO, has used drugs very wisely and effectively, is John C. Lilly. But he seems to be the exception and not the rule. I am not sure what sort of natural insight possesses him but he clearly isn't advocating the recreational or careless use of sacred substances. His approach is methodical and respectful, and while I wouldn't suggest that the average person try to follow his example, I would suggest that they read his books and learn from his experiences!

 

Lastly, most of the shamans I know aren't that into drugs. A Cherokee shaman who I worked with extensively never once mentioned them, although he would smoke a cigar before sweat lodges. Now some shamans are peyote and ayahuasca etc and that is their medicine, but none of them are suggesting that people take it recreationally. They meet ceremonially in reverence, meditation, prayer, chanting and singing sacred ancient songs. Unless I have missed some posts, i think that very few people here on this thread have mentioned this. So I am assuming that most modern people just take these entheogens recreationally without any real connection to the sacred, except that their drug experiences are sacred to them lol. The base of shamanism is connection and oneness with the natural world, not drugs. That connection and oneness are there already as your inalienable state of being! lol i'm not sure anybody needs to hallucinate on intoxicants in order to experience this.

 

btw flolofil, i'm not anti-drug although i think most people should be! hahah.. im glad you seem more open now to all sides of the discussion, as a onesided discussion about how awesome it is to trip doesn't seem as genuine and beneficial to me. I got into my practice because of a deep desire to alter my state of being and experience happiness and bliss. But the root of those things isn't external to me, that is my point. Not that "drugs are bad".

[hydrogen]

I think "under the influence" is a pretty apt term, since "plant friends" like cannabis are very influential. When they are present, you can not not be influenced by them. Being aware of how they influence you, though, might have it's benefits. But like you said, the highs are paid for by the lows, so one needs to know what they can afford to gamble and lose, or they'll be broke and stuck in the desert with no idea how to get back home!

 

I have plenty of faith in God. If that's God will, so be it.

 

Life is a gamble. We all know that casino always win. Do they have 100% odds on their favor? Of course not. If they win every single hand, nobody would be inside any casinos. The odds are from 52% to 60% depending on the games.

 

I'm a winner since I'm still breathing so far. My odds is surely over 50%. It also means that I made tons of mistakes as well. How can I be in the moment if I let these mistakes bother me? Besides, I have no ideas which was a mistake or wich was a winning move.

 

I resent the statement of sort like "you can't get enlighted/find truth/be able do this and that if you smoke weed". Maybe I don't care about being enlighted/find the truth/be able do this and that. That's what you want and desire, it's fine.

 

You walk your path, I walk mine. If our path come across, I'd say hello and nice to see you.

 

I hope you don't shout back "I hope you die in a desert".

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[hydrogen]

1. smoke slowly
2. Breathe in fully
3. Breath out fully and hold until gasp reflex
4. Inhale fully and hold for 10-15 seconds
5. Take 5 minutes to relax and scan your body

I just noticed that I actually used a method similar to Wim Hof Method. This method anble me use less weed.

 

I don't do well with pains. The weed ease the unformatable feeling from gasp reflex.

[silent thunder]

I've been enjoying a few retention cycles, followed by some deep sublimation/relaxation.

[hydrogen]

I'm at a loss to see how your response was connected what I wrote hydrogen.. you'll have to excuse my non-participation in the argument.

 

If I misunderstood what you wrote, I'm sorry. It's not the first time I made blunder.

 

To be honest, I question the validity of weed usage. That's one of the reason that I quit for half year if you read the entire thread.

 

I'm posting mainly for my benefit. I want to erase my own doubt.

[i am]

I can't imagine that it's all not harmful and counter-productive in the long run.

 

With weed, it always brings me back to that place..."oh yeah...I remember how this feels. In touch with my body and self...why am I not always like this?" But it's up to me to get to the place, or one like it, or one beyond it, on my own. Too much weed and I get dull, and that doesn't help me any.

 

In the last year (ever since I got back from China), I've cut way back on drinking, which I only did socially, but I do social things a lot...and cut back on weed.

 

I definitely know that it's all leading towards if not completely stopping weed, at least making it a very very rare thing, and as far as alcohol...It's not a problem for me, other than being around people who drink too often. Any time I'm with people, it means drinking. I don't need to be the guy not drinking at all, but I need it to be one drink, two at most.

 

I have very good friends. So it's not so much a matter of being drawn to the kind of people that I'm used to, based on a youth of lots of social drinking. But it would be nice to have more friends who do things without drinking. Seems like where I live, people just drink a lot. Everything involves it at some point. I guess a lot of that is just typical American culture, but I'm finding that I avoid more and more social situations, because I don't want to drink even one or two drinks that night, but I'm not ready to have answer all the "why aren't you drinking?" questions.

 

People would be totally fine with me not drinking, it's just awkward for a while until they get used to it.

 

And of course as I'm writing this I'm realizing how silly it all is. I can do what I want, and I know my friends are good friends, and true friends, and they'll give me a lot of shit, but not be any less my friends if I didn't drink.

 

But I like a good beer a couple times a week, and I don't see any problem with it.

 

It's one or two at the brewery, then one or two more with dinner, then one or two more before everyone calls it a night that wears on me. I'd call that pretty normal, adult, responsible drinking. But not if you're into cultivation, rather than just all around enjoying life. My "problem", if you can call it that, is being surrounded by so many good friends who aren't interested in cultivation, only in enjoying life, and if they ever think of cutting back on alcohol it's for weight or general health reasons, never spiritual reasons.

 

So I'm just always surrounded by it.

 

Anyway..! That's my personal journal for the day, sorry if you had to read all that!

[Edward M]

 

Peace

[Everything]

 

i find it interesting that marijuana smoke is uncomfortable to inhale into the belly instead of the chest for me

Maybe it looks cooler that way

[Songtsan]

BIG YES - its real and its true MXE is my favorite so far.....it works and its like walking the edge of a knife - it can heal you if you know how to use it right and it can harm you....just be careful...

 

I think drugs like hallucinogens and dissociatives are best used for spiritual work - using them directly for fun is not so good...While using them for spiritual work likely involves fun experiences, the foremost intent should be for self-evolution.

 

Even Patanjali said that drugs could be used to attain gnosis. There is a huge history of sadhus in India and other types of yogis using various compounds...

Edited June 10, 2013 by Songtsan

[Rara]

I just posted an interesting 30ism min documentary that I found on Wing Chun here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/28748-wing-chun-and-taoism/

 

For those without such time on their hands, there is a golden part where it is declared that before the martial art can be successful, one must find inner peace.

 

As rumour has it, Wing Chun "master" (I say this loosely as I don't so much agree with the status in any shape or form) Ip Man was addicted to opium. Yet he must have had inner peace anyway in order to have mastered the martial art.

 

Discuss

[hydrogen]

I just posted an interesting 30ism min documentary that I found on Wing Chun here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/28748-wing-chun-and-taoism/

 

For those without such time on their hands, there is a golden part where it is declared that before the martial art can be successful, one must find inner peace.

 

As rumour has it, Wing Chun "master" (I say this loosely as I don't so much agree with the status in any shape or form) Ip Man was addicted to opium. Yet he must have had inner peace anyway in order to have mastered the martial art.

 

Discuss

 

Why do I need a rumor about a druggie "master" who might have "inner peace" to justify my own behavior?

 

Truth is self evident.

 

Why can't you be the master who occanssionally having fun with drugs?