The false problem of species extinction

[Owledge]

Species evolve as everything else does. Seeing species extinction as a problem is more moralistically based and is actually a problem of unnecessary killing of animals, nothing more.

Just imagine if a theoretical outside party had tried to save homo sapiens' predecessors from extinction. You know, after all, it was threatened by a conpetitive, more aggressive, intelligent species called homo sapiens now. ;-)

Well, back to current species extinction:

There are statistics about numbers of animals of a certain species. Tracking can never be perfect, so the numbers aren't precise, and often it just serves the purpose of making visible a trend.

But what about all the new species? Scientists confirm that there are new species occuring all the time, and naturally those are much more difficult to count... you have to find them first.

It's irrelevant to make a fuzz about a species vanishing from this planet just for the sake of it, unless they come to us for help.

But here's another eye-opening thought: If you imagine a more 'progressive, wise' future where we terraform this planet's deserts into very habitable regions full of green vegetation... what about all the desert-climate-dependant species you would condemn to death doing this? Will you make a fuzz about that, too? Will you demand to stop the madness of destroying our planet's beautiful and unique desert ecosystems?

Buddhists try to save all life, but they won't notice when they step on ants, and they probably don't think about the millions of microbes their body is killing each day. Don't try to be more hardcore than buddhists! ;-D

[Seth Ananda]

hmm i see problematic written all over this thread...

 

You forget that some species hold such a key value within an ecosystem, that if they die, well then everything within that ecosystem dies or migrates if the latter option is available...

 

Also Elephants, Tigers and Whales are such amazing creatures... I personally dont want to leave my children a world where human greed destroyed them...

[Protector]

PANGOLIN POWER

 

 

 

 

Even lions can't do anything, pangolin just rolls into a ball and no one can eat it. Except humans who can just pick it up and walk away...

It's so weird, it's almost invincible but people still eat it somehow

[Marblehead]

hmm i see problematic written all over this thread...

 

Indeed. This is a very controversial subject.

 

I personally dont want to leave my children a world where human greed destroyed them...

 

Yeah. I think that this is the bottom line. But then, if we humans keep over-populating the planet there just won't be room for many of the planet's species. And this would be sad, I think.

[Owledge]

But then, if we humans keep over-populating the planet there just won't be room for many of the planet's species. And this would be sad, I think.

Maybe higher chances to find your true love and spread happiness everywhere you go. ;-)

Edited November 25, 2012 by Owledge

[oildrops]

Human caused extinction is usually indirect, and the species where there is a human attempt to save them, are usually the ones directly diminished from human action. Also they are the majestic animals. I think you need to go read some research before making a claim that species extinction in a false problem. http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/journal/index.html there is one good journal. If your argument is purely philosophical then it's hard to argue from a logicians viewpoint. The problem with taking a logicians viewpoint on such an important issue, is that MANY people actually believe humans are not responsible to care about or help the other life forms that we displace through carelessness. Science is chasing it's own tail already trying to deal with loss of biodiversity.

Edited November 25, 2012 by oildrops

[Practitioner]

Oh sure, lets just industrialize completely the whole planet to the exclusion and death of whole eco systems, and blame it on the other species who "couldn't survive"! Sounds great lol.

 

Just remember, evolution is not about a single species evolving by its own lonesome, it is about the whole ecosphere as one evolving together. What if one super successful species become so successful that it disrupts balance of the whole world?

 

Lets look at it in this way. There's a valley that is full of vegetation, grass, and deers. For simplicity's sake let's limit ourselves to these three species. Suppose the deers find a way to not get eaten anymore by the lions. The lions die off, but guess what? The ultra-successful deer ends up eating everything in the whole valley and soon, we have no vegetation. With nothing left to eat, the "successful" deer end up also starving to death by the hundreds, and then eventually lions, who also have nothing to eat. Or for example another case. The lions become much more efficient hunters and kill and eat deer faster than they are able to reproduce. We then have an overabundance of lions, and no more deer to feed them, and they die too.

 

Ecology is a bit more complicated, but I do believe you understand the metaphors here and the concept that it only takes one super-successful species to completely disrupt and destroy the balance of an ecosystem. Without ecosystems there is no such thing as evolution.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Practitioner

[Marblehead]

Maybe higher chances to find your true love and spread happiness everywhere you go. ;-)

Hehehe. Those are days of the past for me. I do still try to cause others to smile though.

[skydog]

All of us should maintain awareness of justifying beliefs based on other wishes, paradigms, belief systems.

 

Imo evolution has truth to it, but in many ways it is an incomplete theory that has also been used as a form of brainwashing to justify social inequalities (oh the strong survive) I mean look at hitler with his ideas.

 

I dont 100% believe about eating meat is wrong, but that is a decision I make. Even zen masters who are very "unknowledgable" choose specific routines and structures, instead of saying "ah nothing is true" when it comes to what they do so they can justify.

 

I realise my post may sound preachy, and I really hate that, but yeh sorry if it is lol

[Marblehead]

Imo evolution has truth to it, but in many ways it is an incomplete theory that has also been used as a form of brainwashing to justify social inequalities (oh the strong survive) I mean look at hitler with his ideas.

Yes. Evolution is an objective fact. How we use the factual data is subjective and in many cases even false representation.

[skydog]

In my opinion and in the opinion of many others there are a lot of holes in the theory, such as the extremely rapid growth in human evolution in such a short period of time which is not really logical or fitting with the theory. Have a search on the internet for other theories..some are pretty wild sounding but in my opinion actually make more sense to me than both the christian view and evolution. I did say that evolution has some truth to it but in my opinion it is not 100% of reality.

 

Yes you are right some people do falsely represent "just information"

[Marblehead]

In my opinion and in the opinion of many others there are a lot of holes in the theory, such as the extremely rapid growth in human evolution in such a short period of time which is not really logical or fitting with the theory.

Hehehe. I love these discussions. They mess with our root beliefs.

 

Evolution of man. A short period of time? 3.5 million years? That seems to me to be a fairly long time. Evolution of a fruit fly has been demonstrated to take only a couple months for a new species to emerge (because of environment and resources).

 

I will agree that there will always be opponents of the fact of evolution because many feel it will negate their religious beliefs. In truth, it does not need to. We can still hold to the stories of our various religions and at the same time accept scientific explanations for what physical reality is.

 

Let's face it. The Bible doesn't say anything about computers but yet they really do exist.

[skydog]

lol I also love messing with root beliefs, and as you know I am not very interested in the bible so that has no part of my discussion. But I will get back to you with a good reply- but good points you make as I will take my dog out before it gets dark lol

[skydog]

Ok I will be open there are a couple of Ideas which to me seem pretty likely.

 

The idea that we were hunting with spears 12,000 years ago but suddenly things like the egyptian pyramids (which baffles scientists today) or other structures such as 17,000 year old building made out of precisely cut deurite (second hardest material next to diamonds in the world) weighing 500 ton blocks, massive massive mountains that have just become completely flat like a runway and all the rubble that should be there is not, the idea that there is no intelligent life in a universe with billions of stars in a galaxy of billions of galaxies and millions of dimensions (likely) also the fact that there is lifeforms on mars and meteorites and in places scientists did not believe were possible before such as miles under sea in the dark or in volcanoes. These and many other weird phenomena make me allow the possibility that human dna was manipulated by extraterrestrial intelligences.

 

There is some evidence that the world is much younger than it is and that humans are much older than scientists suggest them to be such as archaeologists finding human skulls in deep sedimentary layers which sugest being over 250,000 year olds (oh and just to improve on a point in the last paragraph there is evidence of nuclear radiation in places from 50,000 years ago and nuclear wars in the vedas) also anything that archaeologists cannot be explained or attacks mainstream ideas gets ignored and the archaeologists lose all credibility.

 

There is the idea of all the above being some kind fo cover up for a new world order.

 

My opinion, I really dont know but the aliens one does make more sense to me than the god idea and that could have something to do with biblical scriptures and also still allows evolution theories to be correct.

 

I do realise this sounds wild but to anyone with an open mind willing to study the subject objectively may come to similar conclusions.

[Owledge]

Since you mentioned Hitler, that's a good point to mention some things not conveyed in the propaganda storm:

The Nazi stuff about the "Aryan" race... just look it up. The Aryans were a race of godlike beings in ancient Indian times. They had those attributes like blue eyes and blond hair. Gods who descended from the heavens with flying machines. They seem to have been technologically superior E.T. visitors. Hitler was interested in all those things, and you find other clues about him having a knack for ancient India. Besides the desire to re-evolve that ancient race of super-beings (probably in a superficial way doomed to fail), the swastika is apparently taken from ancient Indian religious material.

Also, there are the vimanas. Ancient texts describe the metallic flying machines of the gods. The Nazis very likely studied those texts and tried to revive that technology and that's where the rumors about Nazi UFOs came from.

There might also have been dabbling in supernatural perception, mediums, contacting E.T.s and that. Basically, Hitler wanted to benefit from ancient knowledge and seek out 'powerful friends from beyond' in order to make use of the superior power.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Owledge

[Marblehead]

Oh! No! The aliens are coming!!!

 

Well, sure, there is a lot of speculation regarding visitors from other planets elsewhere in the universe. And some really excellent assumptions have been made. They have convinced a lot of people. (I'm not one.)

 

Thing about man's evolution is that there have been some really evolved civilizations that grew then collapsed leaving hardly any evidence of what they had accomplished. Africa is a beautiful example of this. The ruins of a number of civilizations in central Africa have been found but original thoughts were that they were created by other people, perhaps aliens, because black Africans just couldn't accomplish such feats. This belief has since been debunked.

 

I think that these people who promote the ideas that aliens helped civilizations accomplish what they have give too little credit to the possibilities of the human species when many people are working toward a common cause.

 

Evolution has been misused by many people in order to justify their falsehoods.

 

 

As to life in other areas of the universe - the probability is very likely. I will never deny that. Have we found any yet? I have seen no satisfactory proof. Yes, it is likely that there was, and maybe still is, life on Mars. Did it evolve beyond microbial? I doubt it. When man gets to Mars there will be a much better chance to state something for sure.

[skydog]

Your right there marblehead.

 

There may be past civilisations with a lot of intelligence but this makes some logical fallacies as to how scientists today couldnt build the pyramids or the deurite made building made thousands of years ago.

 

Honestly there is so much material out there and yes Im sure a large amount of it is absolute crap. But that shouldnt allow us not to see what is real. Also if this stuff is true (lets assume) it will most likely not be posted in the front page of corporate controlled media (well the roswell incident was 50 years ago until the army came in and killed loads of people and stuff has been published in brazil and acuador and the phoenix lights is pretty weird as are crop circles that appear in the middle of the night in huge fields in the rain that are so precise and complicated and scientists say it could have only been created by some kind of light.

 

Oh and there are a few things that really trigger my curiosity, I strongly disbelieve that most of the world governments would disclose this kind of information to a public they desperately try to control since this is a paradigm shifting realisation that could destroy religions and faith in the social conditioning and perfection of current governments who maybe even do work with such terrestrials.

 

Note I do not say they exist more they might/probably do.

 

I remember reading in Graham Hancocks book about psychadelic usage where the tribes in africa use trance dance as their form of psychadelics could see aliens disguising themselves as owls and make a lot of commotion shouting "ekwa ekwa" when an owl would appear and graham asked how did they know it was an alien and they could see the energy field due to being in trance and shooting energy through them.

 

Or underwater ufos tracked on radar going 4x the speed of normal military craft

 

Here are a few links you may enjoy.

 

Alien implants materials are found rarely in meteorites

 

crop circle 1

 

crop circle 2

[Owledge]

@Marblehead

Saying that amazing feats like building the pyramids could have been accomplished by man alone does not negate the possibility of E.T. involvement, but it can be used as a belief system by scientists who then set out to prove it with math and stuff and once they did that they claim this has to be the truth.

 

Very often people make logical conclusions, but on flawed fact basis.

 

You might not know about decades old articles in newspaper archives about battles between flying objects in the sky being observed by many people in a populated city, with detailed descriptions.

You might not know that on the U.S. west coast there is an annual reenactment of an event during WW2 where AAA was shooting like crazy at a hovering object in the sky, with shrapnel from all those projectiles raining down and even killing some people, while the hovering object wasn't harmed and eventually flew off.

 

Again and again I realize that there are documented facts about all the wonders in our world, but many people just don't know.

Ignorant people can even call undisputed facts nonsense. It's all a matter of knowing, of accessing sources of information.

[skydog]

Terrence Mckenna also makes the claim that extraterrestrial intelligence contact humans through psychadelic plants massively improving brain power and that apes would ate certain plants became progressively evolved, actually there are parts of that theory that have some validity to me. He calls it the stoned ape theory.

[ralis]

Part of this thread is similar to the 'Immortal For Life' rants. Replacing science with speculation and mythology which are not based on factual evidence, may be entertaining to some, yet leads to nowhere.

[skydog]

This is not a rant, just discussing ideas which I think might be just as likely as evolution, science is only currently accpeted ideas of the universe by western men with degrees.

 

Being well versed with energy practices I know that "modern science" is full of shit as things I do would or say would get me put in a mental institution as they do not fit the current mold.

 

Please try to be a little open minded ralis, I am not bashing on science, just considering other ideas of what science may be.

[Marblehead]

Hi Y'all,

 

I have gone as far as I can with the aliens. I will never deny the possibility. I really shouldn't say anything else, especially after Ralis' post, so I will leave it at that.

 

But sure, let's keep an open mind but let us not present suppositions as facts. We already have enough work to do just understanding the significance of what we can classify as fact.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Marblehead

[skydog]

Yes Marblehead.

 

I agree in not presenting things as facts.

 

But crop circles that get made in the rain at night spanning huge distances of extremely complicated design and precision, is a fact, ok no one saw aliens but many people claim to have done so but get labelled crazy.

 

Also people who have experiences and have some kind of implant with materials found in rare meteorites seem pretty weird to me.

 

Just food for thought. My ultimate conclusion is I dont really know.

 

Its like history 9/11. I know this will land me in some turmoil but I feel like saying this there are many theories on 9/11 just as there are many theories on world war 2. To even speak about an inside job theory is to "betray" your country, I wonder if many parts of world war 2 are similar to the idea that 9/11 was commited by a millionaire connected with the bush family called bin laden.

[ralis]

I agree that being open minded can have value. I have seen objects in the sky above Los Alamos National Labs which fit the category of UFO's. However, I am not of the mind to create dramatic conclusions as to what I believe the objects in question are.

[三江源]

Simon Parkes is interesting. This is the first section of a 4 part interview. He's a politician, a member of parliament in the UK, but dont let that put you off.