A dilemma

[Taomeow]

Here's a hypothetical situation which I hope some of you might help me ponder.

 

There's a woman who discovers meditation many years ago, spontaneously, the non-denominational kind. She discovers, of all things, the lower dantien, as a somatosensory truth, without ever having heard of one or having the first idea as to what word to use to describe it, and breathes through it for years. Then she reads the history of world religions, several tomes, and decides none of these fit the bill. Then she discovers taoism as a science, taoism as a practice, taoism as a cluster of ideas close to her heart, and feels she's come home. She starts learning and practicing. She reads the classics daily but eventually comes to mostly ignore modern writers on the subject, with the exception of perhaps such whales as Joseph Needham, and definitely has no use for popularizers and wash-downers and anything-goers. Most importantly, she has no use whatsoever, in terms of "things to learn," for any information dispensed by anyone who is not a practicing LINEAGE taoist himself or herself. Researchers, armchair philosophers, or inventors of practices that are five minutes rather than five thousand years old -- none of these float her boat. She starts learning Chinese in order to break her dependency on translators who mostly translate their own Western mind into everything they offer. She also has two teachers, live ones. One of them is a stellar martialist and another, an efficient sorceress, and she is very happy with both and humbled beyond repair by what a true teacher can offer. So far so good. Then the woman decides to participate in some online discussions of taoist subjects. And...

 

And no matter where she goes, she is invariably, and relentlessly, besieged by teachers. She is being taught, and taught, and taught. At least eighty percent of people posting at such forums assume, on autopilot, that they are bigger-better, know more, are wiser, are spiritually more advanced, have a better clue, have greater accomplishments, are smarter, are humbler, are more at One with whatever they're at one with, are enlightened, are superior, super-superior, double-plus-superior. And they teach. And preach. And teach and preach and teach and preach and argue and dismiss and overrule and gallop on high horses and jump on soapboxes and hit her with their superior understanding, repeatedly, on the head. And...

 

And she doesn't really know what to do about it. Just let them? Perhaps. She is not obssessively defensive, she can live with it, no problem. Let them. But then, what about reality? Does she have an obligation towards that? In reality, all of these teachers would benefit a helluva lot more from learning rather than teaching, and that's the truth. What should she do about the truth? Let it slide? Ignore it? Or abandon the idea of sharing ideas via the internet altogether? This superiority complex of people who have read a book, or two books, and meditated for twenty minutes here and there, and rush to the computer to start teaching... what, if anything, can, or should, be done about that? Huh?..

 

She is perplexed, and doesn't have a solution. Whoever has been in her shoes, please share your experience! (Teachers of a superior extraction, please don't bother, she already knows everything you ever have to say, every little thing... sigh.)

Edited January 1, 2007 by Taomeow

[Wayfarer64]

Here's a hypothetical situation which I hope some of you might help me ponder.

...She is perplexed, and doesn't have a solution. Whoever has been in her shoes, please share your experience! (Teachers of a superior extraction, please don't bother, she already knows everything you ever have to say, every little thing... sigh.)

 

Hypothetically- You are asking us to ponder the nature of ego...No-one that tends to offer advice is beyond the basic meat-wheel of kharma. Our egos are fully intact. Presuming to be able to help is a purely egotistical urge.

The sounding-board of this wonderful site is only that... A place to share our ego's perspectives.

 

If we already know everything the other seekers have to share-Than we may still enjoy ourselves in the sharing. Our experiences may get in the way of one-ness if we think they are unique to ourselves. It is not easy to transcend our own world view, no matter how well-meaning we may be. When a simple yet profound idea takes hold the ego wants it to be know that this idea exists in the beholder's mind.

 

Sometimes this is dangerous, as racism and other superiority complexes have shown. Sometimes these shared ideas may help transform the world for the better. Sometimes good ideas get twisted as if going through a clothes-wringer, because the mind doing the thinking is warped and twisted. So sharing thought is usually a healthy thing to do. It may help us think for ourselves and collect our thoughts in a way that is more clear...

 

So, dispite the problems and annoyances, I till think the many levels of being that we each experience in our questings are interesting to share with each-other. There is companionship on-line that has human value.

 

Tho I have learned quite a bit here at the TaoBums, I still think of it as a not so very serious activity. Kind of like reading an historical novel rather than reading an actual tome written for the history class-room...So I guess for me - not all serious subjects, even life itself - will ever fully escape the folly and humor that may be found in any situation...I enjoy my ego even as I try to subdue it into non-existance...

 

I hope this was not too preachy a way to say relax/enjoy! for ya...

Namaste-PDG

[thelerner]

Most of my philosophy I learned early from playdoh and Popeye. When frustrated at the so called learning of others we should repeat the second corollary of his mantra 'They are what they are'.

 

I used to argue more with others on this site and on another(HT). Its a no win game. Too often the criticism I think at others are just as easily redirected toward myself.

 

So where does that leave us, when faced with those on(what we consider) lesser paths? You try to connect, you smile, you say what works for you, maybe a nudge? Ultimately we bump against each other, say good luck, and who knows where we'll bump next?

 

A foolish practice done sincerely probably bares more fruit then great practice done foolishly.

 

Michael

[Smile]

Why visit this and other forums? Once in a while you will discover something that will be worth something to you.

[MASTERforge]

Thats the thing about forums, its easy to switch into teacher/preacher mode as we all like to give our views whether they are right, wrong or just plain crazy.

 

The thing I like about this forum is that 'flaming' is quite rare. Flaming being the term for having a forum argument. I have never really understood this as I cant be arsed to have an argument over the internet. Often I have wanted to add my two cents but thought it better to say nothing. I sometimes read the developments of the arguments and weigh up the points. Perhaps I learn something new or decide that someones a moron!

 

You bring up a valid point about the competition on here for being the most humble or trancended. Sometimes it makes me laugh and sometimes it makes me reach for the sick bucket. Thats the point of joining a forum, you will get all kinds of people some will be sincere and some will be delusional.

 

I think the greatest problem here is the people trapped by dogmatic teachings. They end up doing lots of weird and wonderful things to 'cultivate the dao' or achieve 'enlightenment'. I think if lao tsu was alive he wouldn't recognise any of it as his teachings and would find it quite amusing.

 

As soon as I add bizzare rituals like eating yellow berries under a half moon when saturn is aligned with venus to align my yin chi then I know its time to cut down on reading the taobums and get some fresh air.

 

From my understanding Taoism got turned into a religious practice a few hundred years after the tao te ching was written. This was when the methods for cultivation began and the dogmatic teachings were developed. Some of them are extremely useful and other are a waste of time. Common sense is needed!

 

Taoist development can be seen as similar in development to that of Christianity in terms of what the followers of Jesus did to his teachings. Jesus was a sage whose words were turned into dogmatic teachings that benefitted the coffers of the church.

 

Taoism has developed in these terms too. It was turned into a religious following and now with its development in the west we are promised instant enlightenment if we sign down to a weekend course for only $700

 

I joined here to find like minded individuals who were interested in exploring and discussing taoism. I have found many of the conversations fascinating and they have helped me develop as a person. None of the benefits I have gained from here have included any sort of funky cultivation techniques but then again I havent tried them!

 

I have no intention of offending anyone personally as I really enjoy this forum. So I apologise if I have.

 

Humbly yours

[Taoist81]

Lineage and teachers....well, those are two things that are both given not enough and too much emphasis all at the same time. If there is one thing the Tao Te Ching shows it is that the Teacher (the Tao) is available to all, right here, right now. There are extraneous teachings dealing with sorcery, talismans, energy cultivation, embryos etc. in western traditions and eastern traditions. There are many similarities and many differences. Nevertheless, we should always keep in mind that for every practice or religion or lineage there was an individual human who "figured it out". Those individuals were the same as you and me, someone who was searching and (this is the key) observing. Everyone you meet, whether they are part of a lineage or not, is a teacher. Even more so nature is your teacher. Tao follows Nature, to quote the Tao Te Ching, and Man follows Tao. There is much to be learned from those who have more experience or special skills than we do. But in the end, every teacher is simply a mirror (if they are a good teacher) to reflect the "true teacher" born from the Tao inside you. That is something that transcends all the great teachings of the world. Learn all you want, but in the end "you can know the ways of heaven without looking out the window."

[forestofsouls]

This hypothetical person sounds very lucky to only encounter this on an internet forum. In my own life, I find that most everyone wishes to teach, to boss, the talk rather than listen. People will often take a breath to begin talking before the current speaker has even finished. The same goes for my own thoughts. My mind is constantly being jostled about by competing thoughts, impulses, etc. all jockeying for position.

 

What do I do? I try to let them pass, don't get caught up in the game of it. One's words may mean nothing to the person one is speaking to, but remember this is an internet forum. There are many more people who read without directly posting or responding. Just because the person one is addressing doesn't seem to listen doesn't mean that no one is listening.

[Leidee]

It can be confronting when you meet people either through a forum or in a social situation who seems to speak with such "authority" in their voice because sometimes I then feel like "oh...maybe I don't know".

 

But, personality and strength of it, I feel is something that changes daily. Some days I am brash and probably considered to be one of those people who just likes to talk...and some days I am a bit more likely to consider things before I speak or even not speak at all...and then I may be considered more open to learning - but neither one of those assumptions is absolutely accurate. It all ebbs and flows. For me, it is all about being honest to myself in that very moment If the person next to me doesn't like it...*shrugs*...well, they can do whatever feels natural and honest to themselves in that moment, I suppose!

 

Leidee

[TwoTrees]

Taomeow,

 

You articulate these hypothetical series of observations in a very genuine, and enjoyable fashion.

I have to admit, when I first read this question when it was posed, I just didn't know what to say.

In a way, initially I was slightly pulled to wanting to say something, then perhaps it must be well thought out, even though it is highly probable that my own genuinity seemed apparent right away.

 

After reading all the posts to the reply of this, it made me realize how wonderfully rounded that this forum has become. I am in total agreement with what Michael (thelerner) had posted about what he'd noticed with the forum as of late. It is indeed continually on fruition to a good base of regulars and new ones coming in with fantastic backgrounds and diverse perspectives to build an ever-widening, potentially very enrichening community of respective and contemplative members.

Also ...

thelerner - A foolish practice done sincerely probably bares more fruit then great practice done foolishly.

100% spot-on.

 

Even at the times one may get perplexed at continual topics and not always the exact answer one would hope for, there's going to be something that will bring you back to comfortable arms in a sense. But that does not have to mean you have to stay in that place.

Why no go out on a limb? Isn't that where the fruits lie? (classic adage)

 

Leidee and forestofsouls - I love where you're coming from here. Just like everything else, the kind of communication that goes on here is in irregular, yet carefully stategic flux ...

there are days when people are on the same page and will feel compelled to communicate further on a subject, and other times where you are just listening. And quite often when all will not agree and even less likely, unanimous in nature. And, I feel, that doesn't have to mean that all involved have nothing to offer.

 

And Max - Your simple and outstanding reply says a lot. The only way to learn from others is to be patient and listen, and you can condense all the gems you feel are worthwhile into your learning. And sometimes I've noticed, on the lucky occasion there are opportunities to get involved on topics to a deeper level by being active in questioning and sharing your own experiences with others to bring it to better understanding, perhaps in ways there were not thought before. For me, I do not find it constructive ever that I may know something as a definite and unchanging form.

 

And, as Taoist81 so elegantly put, you can also learn from an immense wellspring within yourself and the tao in the most likely of ways to be overlooked by many. Just imagine the possibilities of this in syncronicity.

 

MASTERforge - As soon as I add bizzare rituals like eating yellow berries under a half moon when saturn is aligned with venus to align my yin chi then I know its time to cut down on reading the taobums and get some fresh air.

 

From my understanding Taoism got turned into a religious practice a few hundred years after the tao te ching was written. This was when the methods for cultivation began and the dogmatic teachings were developed. Some of them are extremely useful and other are a waste of time. Common sense is needed!

!!! Your analogy is very humorous and well put. Good sense is immeasurably significant in this way.

 

Wayfarer - you made many excellent points and they did not come off as preachy at all. Just right on time. (in a non-chronological sense )

 

I guess the only thing left for me to say is that the universe consists of all kinds. It is fortunate indeed that you have already given much thought to what resonates within yourself and a lot of what doesn't work with your nature. A real challenge is in dealing with all community regions of thought involved, while remaining true to your character/spirit/personality/disposition/nature.

 

I am in the hopes that you may attain what you are looking for (right on time).

Pleasant journeys,

Michelle THTT

[VCraigP]

 

And she doesn't really know what to do about it. Just let them? Perhaps. She is not obssessively defensive, she can live with it, no problem. Let them. But then, what about reality? Does she have an obligation towards that? In reality, all of these teachers would benefit a helluva lot more from learning rather than teaching, and that's the truth. What should she do about the truth? Let it slide? Ignore it? Or abandon the idea of sharing ideas via the internet altogether?

 

 

Teach. Learn. Participate. Lurk. Depart?

 

What is your natural inclination which flows from your authentic experience of the forum?

 

Should you share more? It seems that this is your dilemma. In the face of so many armchair teachers of questionable quality, should you join the fray?

What role does a ultra modern thing like a forum have in connecting with others when you yourself are attracted primarily by those with a real lineage connection which goes back to premodern times.

 

ahhh, the lineage question. This has become a recurring theme and I have thought on it much myself. Mostly I agree with the tremendous value of an "authentic" teacher.

But it also leaves the question. What is the value of other teachers? I myself have learned from several. And it would be silly to say that there was no value received from those who do not have such authentic lineage. For one example I studied TaeKwonDo for a long time. I don't think it is a lineage tradition. In fact it is self admitedly one of the most modernized sport martial arts.

Does this mean that the discipline, fitness, coordination and focus, not to mention power which I have developed are not real? Do lineage martial arts teachers have more to offer? Undoubtedly yes. But that does not negate what I have learned. Also, there are many things I have learned from one source which can be seen as stepping stones on my path towards learning from more "authentic" teachers. My background has enabled me to recognize quality and to perceive it on different levels. My background has put me in a position to understand and more fully experience those things I have encountered in this past year studying with someone I feel to be an authentic teacher with lineage connection.

 

What is the place for teachers without this authentic transmission?

What is my place should I decide to teach what I know? And what is the place for other chikung and meditation teachers in this vast world, where there is in all probability 100 times as many worthy students as there are "authentic" teachers from whom to learn.

What is the place of an internet forum for sharing, teaching and learning any of this?

 

Finally your so called hypothetical question is inevitably turned back towards you. What do you want to contribute, or not? How can you contribute in way that is meaningful to you?

 

Perhaps your question is the only way you see to contribute. A sly instruction disguised as a hypothetical situation.

 

What's next??

 

Craig

[mbanu]

Here's a hypothetical situation which I hope some of you might help me ponder.

 

There's a woman who discovers meditation many years ago, spontaneously, the non-denominational kind. She discovers, of all things, the lower dantien, as a somatosensory truth, without ever having heard of one or having the first idea as to what word to use to describe it, and breathes through it for years. Then she reads the history of world religions, several tomes, and decides none of these fit the bill. Then she discovers taoism as a science, taoism as a practice, taoism as a cluster of ideas close to her heart, and feels she's come home. She starts learning and practicing. She reads the classics daily but eventually comes to mostly ignore modern writers on the subject, with the exception of perhaps such whales as Joseph Needham, and definitely has no use for popularizers and wash-downers and anything-goers. Most importantly, she has no use whatsoever, in terms of "things to learn," for any information dispensed by anyone who is not a practicing LINEAGE taoist himself or herself. Researchers, armchair philosophers, or inventors of practices that are five minutes rather than five thousand years old -- none of these float her boat. She starts learning Chinese in order to break her dependency on translators who mostly translate their own Western mind into everything they offer. She also has two teachers, live ones. One of them is a stellar martialist and another, an efficient sorceress, and she is very happy with both and humbled beyond repair by what a true teacher can offer. So far so good. Then the woman decides to participate in some online discussions of taoist subjects. And...

 

And no matter where she goes, she is invariably, and relentlessly, besieged by teachers. She is being taught, and taught, and taught. At least eighty percent of people posting at such forums assume, on autopilot, that they are bigger-better, know more, are wiser, are spiritually more advanced, have a better clue, have greater accomplishments, are smarter, are humbler, are more at One with whatever they're at one with, are enlightened, are superior, super-superior, double-plus-superior. And they teach. And preach. And teach and preach and teach and preach and argue and dismiss and overrule and gallop on high horses and jump on soapboxes and hit her with their superior understanding, repeatedly, on the head. And...

 

And she doesn't really know what to do about it. Just let them? Perhaps. She is not obssessively defensive, she can live with it, no problem. Let them. But then, what about reality? Does she have an obligation towards that? In reality, all of these teachers would benefit a helluva lot more from learning rather than teaching, and that's the truth. What should she do about the truth? Let it slide? Ignore it? Or abandon the idea of sharing ideas via the internet altogether? This superiority complex of people who have read a book, or two books, and meditated for twenty minutes here and there, and rush to the computer to start teaching... what, if anything, can, or should, be done about that? Huh?..

 

She is perplexed, and doesn't have a solution. Whoever has been in her shoes, please share your experience! (Teachers of a superior extraction, please don't bother, she already knows everything you ever have to say, every little thing... sigh.)

 

Plato once outlined the situation with forums very nicely. I liked his explanation so much I saved it, and refer to it often. I also put it in the quote thread.

 

People like the act of teaching. You can see this especially in children. Children love to teach other children. It gives them strength in the face of what they don't know to try to teach others the things that they do know. This can easily become perverted, however, when a person cannot acknowledge their own weaknesses. In this case, instruction becomes a shield that wards off shame, and the act of instruction becomes more important than the instruction itself. However, this is not a thing that others can change through exposing fraudulent instructors; It is a thing each person must change for themself inside.

 

Some have succeeded, and can offer genuine teaching. Others not so much, but their knowledge may still be valuable. Whether or not the value is worth the price is ultimately your own decision.

[Taomeow]

Great responses, bums! Thanks.

 

To tackle the last one first: (oops... just saw it's not the last one anymore... great, please keep them coming! -- so, OK, now what I wrote below pertains to the next to last one):

 

Craig, it may be a case of "when a student is ready" in terms of whether one encounters authentic teachers or not, and if yes, "when." I can relate to your experiences, down to a taekwondo background (a modest one but a very useful one in its own time), and the reason today I value lineage, tradition, authenticity above all else is perhaps I've grown enough, in whatever sense, to understand their value... I didn't always! I used to be, like most modern people, into the modern values of "creativity," "expressing one's unique individuality," "originality," things new, things unheard-of, things trendy, things cutting-edge... Ah how laughable I find them today. But an earlier me wouldn't understand the joke. And in any event the joke is on me...

 

What am I, personally, doing at an internet fourm, any internet forum? I have a very good answer but I don't think it will be a popular one. But since you ask... thanks for asking... OK, here goes.

 

I "contract" it the way one contracts a "pernicious influence" in TCM. My primary Wuxing phase is Wood. The internet is of the Fire phase. Wood catches on Fire easily. I don't have enough Water in my chart to avoid it. Fire is not good for me. It's not good for me but it is attracted to me and I, to it, it's a raw energy phenomenon, not even spiritual, just basic, elemental, almost as involuntary as digestion or respiration and, in a sense, even more basic. Wood catches on Fire, that's the nature of its phase, so if there's plenty of Fire in the environment, it will "contract" some, no way around it. Wood surrounded by Fire has to sacrifice a branch here, a branch there, she has no choice. So for me, it is very important to make sure my whole body doesn't get involved in the Fire. The internet is where I throw dry branches, so to speak. A sacrificial pyre... that lets me salvage the bigger, greener branches, the trunk... because I have at least some control over what to let Fire consume when I turn my computer on, and what not to feed it. But this control is limited, and I know my limitations full well. Against the original Wuxing make-up, I have any control at all over exactly 40% of what's going to happen to me, here or anywhere else. So my task is to use it wisely... Working on it.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Taomeow

[Trunk]

for any information dispensed by anyone who is not a practicing LINEAGE taoist himself or herself.

Have you considered the forum that SeanDenty has mentioned here lately? Apparently it is aligned with Wang Li Ping.

(Not in any way meant as a brush-off.)

 

At least eighty percent of people posting at such forums assume, on autopilot, that they are bigger-better, know more, are wiser, are spiritually more advanced, have a better clue, have greater accomplishments, are smarter, are humbler, are more at One with whatever they're at one with, are enlightened, are superior, super-superior, double-plus-superior. And they teach.

I appreciate TTBs in that, while the quality of communication is relatively good, as far as students-to-students goes, most of us have at least a strong suspecion that we're full of ####, and shouldn't be talking at all - but do anyway.

[TwoTrees]

By the way, saw the adorable avatar you are using and thought you'd enjoy this pic as well :

[Taomeow]

By the way, saw the adorable avatar you are using and thought you'd enjoy this pic as well :

 

Thanks, TwoTrees! Nice!

 

Believe it or not, I've seen scenes like the one I'm using in my avatar in real life, in Bermuda where hundreds (or maybe thousands, who knows, they're everywhere) of feral cats live a free and richly social life. They are un-spayed, un-neutered, un-vaccinated, un-fed commercial crap that has nothing but crap and chemicals in it, and they are completely uninterested in humans but very interested in each other -- they live a tribal life where everybody seems to know everybody and behave very affectionately towards each other. I've seen feline couples in the park, on a stroll, walking side by side, step matching step, shoulders and whiskers touching, ears purred into respectively, tails hugging each other's bodies... They are slender and muscular (not skeletal like the feral cats I've seen in the thirld world countries, and not fat/diabetic/endocrine-compromised like American pets), and are a prime example of a good life and freedom being conductive to love more than suffering and slavery will ever be... but of course I digress...

[Taomeow]

Have you considered the forum that SeanDenty has mentioned here lately? Apparently it is aligned with Wang Li Ping.

(Not in any way meant as a brush-off.)

 

I appreciate TTBs in that, while the quality of communication is relatively good, as far as students-to-students goes, most of us have at least a strong suspecion that we're full of ####, and shouldn't be talking at all - but do anyway.

 

 

I'll check it out, thanks. Didn't know Wang Liping was associated with any online activities, I've spoken to only one person who'd met him in person but it was a couple of years ago...

 

What's TTBs?

 

By the way, I can't possibly know about others (how do you like this quote from a gal who used to be Prime Minister: "Stop being humble, you're not that great!" ) -- but I try to make a point of NOT being full of ####, and especially of making no claims whatsoever regarding any "level of attainment" and "stage of sagehood" and "grade of enlightenment" and all that jazz. I am full of awe, more like it, where taoist arts and sciences are concerned... and any growth at all occurs in the opposite direction, i.e. the more I learn and the more I "can," the more I understand how desperately inadequate my skill is... every day I feel less "qualified" than I did the day before... That's because I'm a practitioner, and practice makes frustrated before it makes perfect... assuming it ever does...

[Trunk]

What's TTBs?

"The Tao Bums".

 

but I try to make a point of NOT being full of ####, ... the more I learn and the more I "can," the more I understand how desperately inadequate my skill is... every day I feel less "qualified" ..

Understood. You just said, so much more clearly, what I was trying to say with my attempt at humor.

[Ian]

Taomeow,

 

One very small technical point - if anyone really pisses you off on a regular basis, you can, on this forum, set your personal controls to block all that person's posts from being shown to you.

 

As to the main drift of your initial post, like Craig, I'm not sure what response you might hope for, if one was to take it at face value.

 

I mean, yes, people, self included, make many more statements than they can justify. Were you asking us to stop? If so, you may be disappointed.

 

If not, then your choices are limited.

 

Don't expose yourself to it.

Learn not to mind it.

Ask very specific questions, including details of what sort of reply you don't want.

 

etc etc.

 

What response were you hoping for? How to tell people they're full of shit in such a way that they accept it and mend their ways? If you find out, for god's sake tell us all, at once. Dogmatically.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Ian

[Trunk]

How to tell people they're full of shit in such a way that they accept it and mend their ways? If you find out, for god's sake tell us all, at once. Dogmatically.

If anyone can answer that one, they get an instant Nobel Peace Prize. (It's in the rules.)

[Spectrum]

"And no matter where she goes, she is invariably, and relentlessly, besieged by teachers. She is being taught, and taught, and taught. At least eighty percent of people posting at such forums assume, on autopilot, that they are bigger-better, know more, are wiser, are spiritually more advanced, have a better clue, have greater accomplishments, are smarter, are humbler, are more at One with whatever they're at one with, are enlightened, are superior, super-superior, double-plus-superior. And they teach. And preach. And teach and preach and teach and preach and argue and dismiss and overrule and gallop on high horses and jump on soapboxes and hit her with their superior understanding, repeatedly, on the head. And..."

 

 

Those who talk usually don't know. Gotta love ego maniac wanna be mystics getting high off being higher then others. The funny thing is it's all on the internet. That has to be the biggest joke on those who don't actually know, putting down what they "know" on the internet.

 

I think the best think about meeting someone in person is you can always throw a straight blast if they say "my chi is more powerful then yours"... ;o)

Edited January 6, 2007 by Spectrum

[三江源]

.

Edited April 8, 2015 by 三江源

[Taomeow]

there's so much ego and inflation around, the world is saturated with it.

 

I'm slightly at a loss to imagine how one could be alive and remain irritated by it.

 

I get "irritated" when I wear a scratchy sweater. My emotions and thoughts in response to human interactions are a tad more complex.

 

The non-having of emotional responses is a value in some spiritual systems (the ones I don't buy) and people who have been exposed to them occasionally talk of this modus operandi as the "right" way to be. The ones encountered more often than most are Buddhism or Zen-sprinkled Westerners, "sprinkled" so the outer layer of ideas is there, including the idea of faking eternal calm. In reality, however, neither chronic emotional excesses nor emotional numbness for all purposes are attributes of life. An aware observer of life will notice... Keep teaching a cat to walk on hind legs and see if the cat gets used to it enough to comply without an inner and/or outer protest. Only if you hurt and abuse her into numb compliance! Otherwise, long as she keeps feeling, she will keep feeling it's not right.

 

With teachers who teach me their tricks of choice without having been explicitly asked to, I feel about the same.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 8, 2015 by 三江源

[Wayfarer64]

Hi All-

 

I'm not so sure we can equate sharing with teaching on a forum like this. I know I sure hope to communicate my ideas and will fight pretty hard for what I believe to be the truth. But Does that really also mean I am trying to change other people's minds or they are trying to change my mind? Maybe, or maybe not, as we are trying to help develop our own minds with the discourse as much as anything.

 

This is to say that trying to teach is also trying to change what is in the person's mind into which we are directing our ideas... But sharing our ideas is more of a give and take, with as much fiestyness as we like.

 

I have learned from His Holiness The Dalai Lama, and Grand Master Chung who I studied with, They have exhibited extraordinary abilities. Yet it is also easy for me to see them each as just other men. They changed my life to some degree, but I do not see them as god-like. At least not as seperate from any other person's potential. ... I am grateful and humbled by their powers and attributes, and hope to develop some of their knowledge into my own life.

 

There has not been anyone on the internet that has offered themselves as teachers or offereed their teachers as potential teachers that I could take in the least bit seriously. Some sound better than others, trying to sell one's system of knowledge, as a few have done here, seems sort of desperate.

 

But as the ever apt TheLerner has stated I see myself doing these things too! (as I indeed try to offer my book on line)...Tho I also feel I am trying to share an artistic effort rather more than trying to teach Taoism.

 

I read all of us as equals no matter what levels of becoming enlightened we may have already reached.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Taomeow]

Teaching through sharing is perfectly fine, and occasionally noble. Far as I'm concerned, there is a right and a wrong way to teach. The "wrong" way I was referring to is to assume, or hint at, a level of accomplishment automatically superior to that of another poster -- without this another poster having implicitly or explicitly asked to be enlightened and guided in the general direction of "the right path." The wrong way to teach is to assume the Dalai Lama has been waiting in limbo till you (a generic you) explain to him that he really should not be attached to the red dust of Tibet; that Mantak Chia needs to consult the Pope of Rome on the issues of sexual expression; that Chen Zhenglei must immediately drop his taiji because you can assure him that there is no opponent; or that Taomeow doesn't know what to do with her emotions unless instructed.