Entering the Void

[adept]

Greetings.

 

In my meditations over the years, I've had glimpses of the void, or what you could also call the great stillness, peace, bliss, no-thingness or whatever. Just little bits here and there. But recently, EVERY time I meditate, I fall into a wonderful state which lasts for quite a while.

Some of the sensations/feelings :

 

I can't feel my body at all. It feels as if I'm just a floating consciousness.

I can't detect any breathing.

I can't feel a pulse/heartbeat.

I don't even know that I have a body or a mind.

Extreme peace, serenity, calmness and bliss.

 

I have tried various types of meditations but the one I've come back to and stuck with has been awareness of my breathing. Not focussing on a particular point like the dantian or the third eye or the nose, but just on the mechanism of breathing, as a whole.

 

Is it that the simplest meditations, when pursued and practiced diligently and regularly, have the greatest benefit ?

[Shagrath]

Yes. The simplest meditations are giving the greatest result because simple meditations doesn't activate lots of thoughts and that is crucial for emptiness.

 

Simple doesn't mean easy

[exorcist_1699]

Some points to discuss :

 

 

1) How quick and often can we enter the described status of mindlessness ?

 

 

2) Although the old mind has receded, it seems a new Mind has not popped up...

 

 

3) A much deeper mindlessness should be some kind of embedded mindset in the background ,

no matter how fluctuating the minds on the front stage can't dissolve it ( " 惠能無技倆 , 不斷百思量")

 

 

4) It is only after the appearance of that much bigger Mind, can we talk about the pre-heavenly qi,

the greatest benefit...

Edited November 25, 2012 by exorcist_1699

[adept]

Some points to discuss :

 

 

1) How quick and often can we enter the described status of mindlessness ?

 

 

2) Although the old mind has receded, it seems a new Mind has not popped up...

 

 

3) A much deeper mindlessness should be some kind of embedded mindset in the background ,

no matter how fluctuating the minds on the front stage can't dissolve it ( " 惠能無技倆 , 不斷百思量")

 

 

4) It is only after the appearance of that much bigger Mind, can we talk about the pre-heavenly qi,

the greatest benefit...

 

1. In my case, it seems that EVERY time I meditate, I enter this state, within a few minutes.

2. It seems that Mind has dropped off altogether. No-mind.

3. I wouldn't say that this state is 'mindlessness' at all. Far from it. No mind is not needed in this state.

4. I'm not so sure about this 'bigger Mind' that you speak of, or of 'pre heavenly qi'.

I only believe I have entered 'The Great Stillness', 'The Dao', 'The Source of all things', 'God consciousness' or any other term suitable for the un-nameable.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Adept,

When you are in that state, what do you see? What are you aware of? Do you see any lights? Is there vividness and luminosity?

 

TI

[Adam West]

Hey Adept!

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I too find that breath meditation is the simplest and most effective meditatoin practice for the conditioned aspects of mind to fall away revealing naked luminous emptiness.

 

It is very impressive to me that you experience this everytime you meditate and within only a few minutes. In this context, you are an adept indeed.

 

How long have you been practicing and for how long and often each day?

 

Can you offer commentary on how you came to this level of mastery? Any advice for the rest of us to get to the same level of competency?

 

Can you point to any resources for practice of this nature and its results of no-mind? Any that you recommend?

 

What affect has this daily realisation of emptiness had on your consciousness, personality and daily, social and work life?

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Adam.

[illyria]

I would also love to be able to 'enter the void'. When I meditate, I do find it relaxing, but I still feel very much in my body, and can hear my hear beating, my blood pumping, breathing.

[C T]

Where is this void?

 

Dont throw the term around lightly.

 

Once tasted, some never return.

[manitou]

I got into a meditative state beyond the blissful about a week ago - as CT says - it was terrifying. I was All There Is. There was no one or no thing out there - only my consciousness; I could feel any remnants of my personality melt away, like a sheet being pulled at all four corners with no wrinkles of personality left. My thoughts were simultaneous in the past, present, and future. I was all there is. The future was all up to me - there was nothing to look forward to because nothing else existed.

 

It was a lonely place to be. I knew I had the decision as to whether to come back or not. I think fear brought me back, although I was tempted to let go and let the Nothingness take me. I wanted to live, that's all.

 

It was actually a pretty horrible feeling.

[ancienthealth]

I got into a meditative state beyond the blissful about a week ago - as CT says - it was terrifying. I was All There Is. There was no one or no thing out there - only my consciousness; I could feel any remnants of my personality melt away, like a sheet being pulled at all four corners with no wrinkles of personality left. My thoughts were simultaneous in the past, present, and future. I was all there is. The future was all up to me - there was nothing to look forward to because nothing else existed.

 

It was a lonely place to be. I knew I had the decision as to whether to come back or not. I think fear brought me back, although I was tempted to let go and let the Nothingness take me. I wanted to live, that's all.

 

It was actually a pretty horrible feeling.

 

 

 

Reading the first half of your post, it's funny, I thought... wow i've experienced the same exact thing, and it was so wonderful, and to see you say it was horrible is very interesting. One thing I've noticed, is I haven't gone back into this state really, and though, not a conscious choice, I definitely stopped the practices that were giving "me" the "success" -- I think my ego got scared of dying. However, I think it's time to get back on that path. When I tasted this "void," upon coming back I knew that nothing else mattered, but not in a bleak way, but with the most joy -- it confirmed that all of this spiritual searching and obsessiveness really did lead to something real and true, something dependable.

Edited November 26, 2012 by ancienthealth

[idiot_stimpy]

I wanted to live, that's all.

 

That which wants to live on, is just a self perpetuating belief

[adept]

Hi Adept,

When you are in that state, what do you see? What are you aware of? Do you see any lights? Is there vividness and luminosity?

 

TI

 

Hi TI

 

I don't have any luminosity or brightness, on the contrary, it seems dark, but not in a frightening or threatening way at all. It feels completely natural and right to be there, as if I've always belonged there.

I don't feel aware of anything in particular, but I feel aware. Hard to put into words that one.

[adept]

Hey Adept!

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I too find that breath meditation is the simplest and most effective meditatoin practice for the conditioned aspects of mind to fall away revealing naked luminous emptiness.

 

It is very impressive to me that you experience this everytime you meditate and within only a few minutes. In this context, you are an adept indeed.

 

How long have you been practicing and for how long and often each day?

 

Can you offer commentary on how you came to this level of mastery? Any advice for the rest of us to get to the same level of competency?

 

Can you point to any resources for practice of this nature and its results of no-mind? Any that you recommend?

 

What affect has this daily realisation of emptiness had on your consciousness, personality and daily, social and work life?

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Adam.

 

Hi Adam.

 

I've practiced meditation for about a decade now. Lots of different approaches, but I always seem to come back to awareness of the breath. Only one session per day of half an hour, always in full lotus. I've never had any problem getting into lotus from day one. Maybe that helps, I don't know.

I'm not sure how I came to this regular state. It just seemed to happen a few weeks ago. Maybe it's the result of years of practice suddenly bearing fruit.

I started out, like some people, focussing on the dantian. Normal abdominal breathing. Then, without me consciously recognizing it, I found myself being aware of the mechanism of breathing. Being aware as I breathed in, and being aware when I breathed out. And that was it. I had dropped the focussing on the dantian without knowing I had. It all happened so naturally.

As far as resources go, my interests have been varied over the years. From the TTC to the Pali Canon, to Zen and Ch'an. Then dropping Buddhism altogether because there's something I still don't get with it. It doesn't feel right for me.

These days I seem to be drawn to Vedantic sources and to the Bhagavad Gita. It feels as if I'm re-discovering something which I've previously known, maybe from lifetimes past.

We all have different paths, some which take us on many different routes.

I still have a LOT of work to do on my morals and behaviour. I am currently trying to get to the root of my anger issues so it's not all rosy in the garden just yet.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 26, 2012 by adept

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi TI

 

I don't have any luminosity or brightness, on the contrary, it seems dark, but not in a frightening or threatening way at all. It feels completely natural and right to be there, as if I've always belonged there.

I don't feel aware of anything in particular, but I feel aware. Hard to put into words that one.

 

Hi Adept,

You know, all the experiences that I have had with the void were luminous, clear, bright.. Like being in a wide open space and there were very very distant faint 'stars'. After overcoming the fear of dying, one time I 'jumped in' and bounced back out. Other times, during a form of spinal breathing, I have found myself just hanging out there in the same vast dark space, but I could see the lower part of my being; it resembled a jelly fish of translucent light beams something like a bar magnet's polarity field.. I really wonder if this is the same void that you are getting to.. Or, perhaps it is another state.. But really, who knows..

 

Regardless,

 

I'm wondering if maybe it may of some benefit for you to read the following quote from "Wisdom Wide and Deep" from Shaila Catherine because some of the characteristics that you have listed are addressed in it. Drats! I could not find a link to the quote, so I'm going to type this in..

 

When You Think Nothing is Happening

Until the jhana factors are strongly developed, attention can easily slip away from the nimitta and linger in a dormant state of consciousness -in Pail language this state is called bhavanga. The Abhidhamma identifies this state as the life-contiuum consciousness that arises between every cognitive process. Everyone has uncountable moments of this life-continuum consciousness, although they usually occur below the threshold of awareness. Slower minds will have longer lapses between sensory processes; sharper minds will have relatively brief excursions into the bhavanga consciousness because attention will readily engage with the next moment of perception and rapidly process cognitive data.

 

To the meditator, a lapse into the bhavanga state may seem as though everything has stopped and nothing particular is known. Meditators describe this as being "aware of nothing" and may mistakenly allude to it as an experience of emptiness, yet they will not posses clarity regarding the object of attention. Sometimes it can seem as though time is just lost. The posture may be upright; hence, it does not have the obvious features usually associated with sleepiness or dullness. It is usually a very pleasant state, and overconfident meditators may presume it is an accomplishment, or pehaps even the attainment of nibbana. In reality, however, the mental faculties are not yet strong enough to discern the subtle functioning of this state of consciousness that links cognitive processes. If a meditator enjoys the pleasant but unclear state of bhavanga and repeatedly dwells in it, the meditation will stagnate and soon the mind will dull into complacency.

 

Extended lapses into bhavanga are likely to happen prior to jhana. These commonly occur as the meditator approaches the threshold to jhana but will not happen while actually absorbed in jhana. These lapses are compared to a child who is learning to walk - at first the toddler takes just a few steps and then falls down, tries a few more strides, and again collapses. The mind in jhana, by contrast, is stable and adroit, and the jhana factors are strong. It is likened to a healthy adult who can walk whenever, wherever, and however long she desires, without stumbling or hesitation.

 

On the bright side (pun intended), if you make an effort to enhance your clarity and vividness, perhaps you will start to see lights, nimittas, luminosity, and, as Shaila is saying, the state may indicate that you are on the threshold of the jhanas..

 

For a long time, while meditating, Shaila Catherine noted that everything brightened up during her breath meditations. And, she wrote in her book, it was only at the point where she started to see the bright light and focused on it that she made serious rapid progress into the jhanas..

 

Hopefully you will find some value in this post.. If not, that's ok too..

 

TI

Edited November 26, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[MERCELESS ONE]

i like that state! its so peaceful!

[Jeff]

Hi Adept,

 

Seeing things like stars in meditation is a product of the mind. In my experience, often as one goes deeper in meditation (or consciousness), you may go "deeper" than your energy/mind is able to support. When that happens, you experience "nothing" and sometimes you may even "cease". If you reside/stay at that level, your mind(and energy) will eventually "catch up" and your mind will begin to "translate" the energy into things like light (and other cool stuff).

 

If you are feeling "peace", I would suggest that you follow your heart and continue your practices. It sounds like you are doing a good job of continually diving "deeper" into yourself/consciousness. Trust your "heart" and don't be afraid to leave your "mind" in the dust (or using other terms - surrender).

 

Edited November 27, 2012 by Jeff

[adept]

Hi Adept,

You know, all the experiences that I have had with the void were luminous, clear, bright.. Like being in a wide open space and there were very very distant faint 'stars'. After overcoming the fear of dying, one time I 'jumped in' and bounced back out. Other times, during a form of spinal breathing, I have found myself just hanging out there in the same vast dark space, but I could see the lower part of my being; it resembled a jelly fish of translucent light beams something like a bar magnet's polarity field.. I really wonder if this is the same void that you are getting to.. Or, perhaps it is another state.. But really, who knows..

 

Regardless,

 

I'm wondering if maybe it may of some benefit for you to read the following quote from "Wisdom Wide and Deep" from Shaila Catherine because some of the characteristics that you have listed are addressed in it. Drats! I could not find a link to the quote, so I'm going to type this in..

 

 

 

On the bright side (pun intended), if you make an effort to enhance your clarity and vividness, perhaps you will start to see lights, nimittas, luminosity, and, as Shaila is saying, the state may indicate that you are on the threshold of the jhanas..

 

For a long time, while meditating, Shaila Catherine noted that everything brightened up during her breath meditations. And, she wrote in her book, it was only at the point where she started to see the bright light and focused on it that she made serious rapid progress into the jhanas..

 

Hopefully you will find some value in this post.. If not, that's ok too..

 

TI

 

Thanks TI for your input on this matter.

It does sound very like my experience, albeit in Buddhist Abhidhammic lingo.

It could be that I'm on the verge of jhana by that definition. I'll see how it goes.

[MooNiNite]

This will probably only last for about a month

[idiot_stimpy]

This will probably only last for about a month

 

And then what?

[Tibetan_Ice]

Thanks TI for your input on this matter.

It does sound very like my experience, albeit in Buddhist Abhidhammic lingo.

It could be that I'm on the verge of jhana by that definition. I'll see how it goes.

 

Hi Adept

Did you know that you can increase your vividness, your clarity, your level of awareness? I didn't know that until I started studying Alan Wallace's breath meditation practices.

 

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/spring2011/?p=111

 

Before knowing that it is possible and the technique, all images/visions were normal looking.. But after spending many meditations increasing vividness on the in breath and relaxing the body and letting go on the out breath, I gradually gained more control over the vividness. It really isn't that hard. It is kind of linked into will in a way.

 

When you increase vividness and focus on the mind in the center of the head near the medulla, you can 'see' this kind of golden light surrounding everything and the space in your head opens up into a beautiful deep dark blue. You can see the thoughts with great clarity, like you were looking at them under a black light and they are luminescent. They mostly look like strings of color.

 

The technique is also not to be too interested in them, or don't give them any energy or interest. If you do, you get sucked into them and you proliferate the conceptual mind. If you don't, and you retreat closer to the feeling of "I" in the head just around the location of the medulla, that's where you can sit and just watch. But you have to be able to withdraw from the thought, the content of the thought, back towards your "I" to the part that grasps the meaning or knowledge of the thought. In other words, you focus on the part that understands the meaning of the thought. It is very bright and clear, and has a golden light around it.

 

Eventually, when you get stable in this condition, the thoughts and visions speed up because they arise and pass more quickly. But you just sit there, as close to the "I" as possible..

 

That is the only way I can describe.. Well, I suppose I change the language around and use different terminology, but hopefully you will get the idea.

 

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Adept,

 

Seeing things like stars in meditation is a product of the mind. In my experience, often as one goes deeper in meditation (or consciousness), you may go "deeper" than your energy/mind is able to support. When that happens, you experience "nothing" and sometimes you may even "cease". If you reside/stay at that level, your mind(and energy) will eventually "catch up" and your mind will begin to "translate" the energy into things like light (and other cool stuff).

 

 

Hi Jeff

 

How would someone without a regular practice of meditation, who only plays with energy know anything about stilling the mind? Are you posing again? "Playing with energy" is counterproductive to stilling the mind, shamatha.

 

And stars in the void are quite different from nimittas, astral lights or the lights from mental energetic friction.

 

 

If you are feeling "peace", I would suggest that you follow your heart and continue your practices. It sounds like you are doing a good job of continually diving "deeper" into yourself/consciousness. Trust your "heart" and don't be afraid to leave your "mind" in the dust (or using other terms - surrender).

 

 

You know, for someone who just regurgitates what you suspect and has no formal practice, it is quite ridiculous that you contradict Shaila Catherine, Alan Wallace, the Buddha, the Vissudhimagga and recommend that a practitioner remain in laxity/bavangha. You are giving bad advice, and advice from which you have no personal experience (again).

 

Just so you have an idea of someone whom has devoted their life to Buddhist meditation, read this:

 

 

Biography

 

Shaila Catherine has been practicing meditation since 1980, with seven years of accumulated silent retreat experience, and has been teaching since 1996 in the USA, India, Israel, England, and New Zealand. Shaila studied at the Sharpham College for Buddhist Studies in England and dedicated six years to studying with masters in India, Nepal, and Thailand including H. W. L. Poonja, Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche, and Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche. She is the founder of Insight Meditation South Bay. She lives in Menlo Park, California.

 

So you'd think that she might really know what she is talking about, wouldn't you?

 

TI

[deci belle]

So nice!! Enjoy the scenery during your dropping off.❤

[Tibetan_Ice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHmaBRlmYNw

[voidisyinyang]

Qigong master Effie P. Chow says Adam the Dream Healer is the real deal - fully opened third eye. Here he describes when he goes into trance to see lights -- he comes out having forgotten where he is....

[Jeff]

Hi TI,

 

Good to hear from you. I hope you are well.

 

I was just sharing my experience that I thought might be helpful for others. Just our old debate of whether to focus on the mind or on to the heart. Below are a couple of quotes that I thought might also be helpful for some...

 

From the Dhammapada (The Seeker)

 

 

Do not be restless.

Meditate constantly.

Or you will swallow fire And cry out: "No more!"

If you are not wise, How can you steady the mind?

If you cannot quieten yourself, What will you ever learn?

How will you become free?

With a quiet mind Come into that empty house, your heart,

And feel the joy of the way Beyond the world.

 

 

Also, since you have expressed some interest in Buddhist/Dzogchen teachings...

 

From the Vairo Drabag (Dzogchen Semde lineage) as described by Chogyal Namkai Norbu in the "The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde.

 

(Section 8)

 

"Khenpo Rabnang summarized their entirety fo him thus:

 

The nature of mind is enlightened from the beginning,

There is nothing else on which to meditate.

Yet, one cannot understand this "object of meditation" with the intellect;

Meditating means not being distracted from the nature of mind!

 

Then Maharaja, the khenpo of Oddiyan, perfectly understood the meaning of the

primordial state and expressed his realization thus:

 

I am Maharaja!

Meditating on mind, I have transcended the object of meditation.

Scrutinizing the mind, one sees nothing.

But precisely perceiving this "nothing to see" is "seeing".

Meditating means not being distracted from the meaning of

"nothing to see"! "

 

Peace.