Religion is the poison of Spirituality

[gatito]

Atheism is a religion

[adept]

the problem is that whiteout religion or moral standard to guide actions there is no just system possible... think about it before you respond...

 

You will instinctively know if your actions are right or wrong. No holy book, precepts or commandments are needed. Morals come from the heart and from the experiences of life, not from scriptures and top-down authoritarian religious institutions.

[Protector]

You will instinctively know if your actions are right or wrong. No holy book, precepts or commandments are needed. Morals come from the heart and from the experiences of life, not from scriptures and top-down authoritarian religious institutions.

 

hahaha haha hahahahaha MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

 

Sorry, had to do an evil laugh here. No, it's not like that. You need a lot of experience to understand morals from the start, or as children get guidance from the parents or guardians. Holy books happen to be guardians of ancient wisdom of parents of parents or very far back parents.

It's easy to think this that way because you were already raised up and you have a working moral compass, but for young people to adapt faster they need to be told the rules and then let them see what happens when you don't follow them. That's why we have jails and punishments they are not to punish the wicked but to scare the population into not doing what the governments doesn't want them to do.

The real reason we have morals is to avoid getting murdered by other people, while that also sometimes leads to suicides, mostly emotional kind. When you do something bad and you realize it, you hurt yourself, but as kids who don't know anything, everything is fine. There are so many dead bugs out there...

[Jetsun]

Real morality comes from wisdom ie you come to see that acting in a moral way is good for you and good for everyone else and harming others is bad for you and bad for others. The way morality is thrust upon children these days is one of the main causes of false persona everyone hides behind, young children are taught to say thank you and sorry etc when you don't really feel or mean it, so it is exactly this sort of moral education which causes a split in what people feel and what they say and think.

[Eskrimador]

Christmas soon.

[Eskrimador]

Real morality comes from wisdom ie you come to see that acting in a moral way is good for you and good for everyone else and harming others is bad for you and bad for others. The way morality is thrust upon children these days is one of the main causes of false persona everyone hides behind, young children are taught to say thank you and sorry etc when you don't really feel or mean it, so it is exactly this sort of moral education which causes a split in what people feel and what they say and think.

 

If people nice to evrybody then most people nice back at you.

If they not that there fault not you.

[thelerner]

You will instinctively know if your actions are right or wrong.. Morals come from the heart and from the experiences of life, not from scriptures and top-down authoritarian religious institutions.

hahaha haha hahahahaha MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

I think Sinfest said it all with his evil laugh. I think adept is confusing the word should (or hopefully).. as in morals should come from the heart and life experiences with the word do.

 

I don't think religion always equals morality, but neither does just listening to your often fickle heart. A foolish man will learn foolish things from his life experience. It popped up in another thread, but imo Conficius nailed it when he said children (people) need instructions on the right way to live. I don't think morality is instinctive, not always. Set down common sense rules of helping others and doing no harm. Share and show examples of kindness, charity and empathy and you don't need a lot of rules or sin structure.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Eskrimador]

Little kids r not wise but they can learn good manners.

Anybody has good manners they have good morals too usualy.

[thelerner]

The way morality is thrust upon children these days is one of the main causes of false persona everyone hides behind, young children are taught to say thank you and sorry etc when you don't really feel or mean it, so it is exactly this sort of moral education which causes a split in what people feel and what they say and think.

I disagree. Morality isn't what you 'feel' like. I taught my children the importance of saying 'Thank you' when someone does something for them. If they don't I will reprimand them in private (at least I did when they were younger). Children who aren't taught to say thank you and are allowed to do what they 'feel' often end up as spoiled brats.

 

My kids heard many no's when they were young. They know punishment and discipline (though it hasn't been an issue the last few years), they give and expect respect. If I tell them to do something they don't want, they do it. And I give them the same courtesy. They know I'll stop what I'm doing to help them. It sounds old fashion but I take great pride in having obedient loving children.

Edited December 2, 2012 by thelerner

[adept]

OK. I'm not suggesting for one minute that morality just happens by itself. Of course we need the guidance of our parents and school teachers when we're younger. As I wrote in the Confucian forum, Xunzi said that if we did not receive proper guidance, humanity would run amok, as we have the inborn tendencies to be greedy, selfish, ignorant and downright nasty.

Proper guidance and upbringing does not equal outdated holy rulebooks.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Protector]

Morality can also come from selfishness(damn, are we going off topic or what?)

A lot of people don't understand selfishness and try to avoid it while there is something to learn from it

BOOm, Tao Shellfish Ching

 

Kids are very grabby, before they were born they were a part of their mothers, after they were born they were still a part of their mothers, after playing outside they were a part of the world. It's not "this is mine and not yours" it's actually more like "this is mine and so are you and everything else". They are a part of the world but as they grow up they are slowly taught that things a separate and so they become selfish in a bad way. and when they finally become adults they become completely separate from everything and have to work and fight for things they can call their own. These adults need to be told. Children already feel a connection and empathy and so when someone hurts they hurt, too. This is not something to be taught but something to be reminded of and for that there is no need for religion(whew, made it back on topic )

[Marblehead]

Atheism is a religion

BTW I did see this but simply ignored it and I will continue to ignore any such silly thoughts.

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[gatito]

BTW I did see this but simply ignored it and I will continue to ignore any such silly thoughts.

 

Yes, I can see that you ignored it

 

And I wouldn't want to confuce you with facts when you're perfectly happy believing in Santa Claus

[Marblehead]

Careful with continuing to ignore the truth... when the truth exposes the truth... least you simply continue to live a delusion full od ignorance...

You're shittin' me, right?

[gatito]

You're shittin' me, right?

 

Nah

 

You're shittin' yourself

[Marblehead]

Yes, I can see that you ignored it

 

And I wouldn't want to confuce you with facts when you're perfectly happy believing in Santa Claus

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard, you might find that I am very rarely confused.

 

Santa Claus? Oh, sure.

[Marblehead]

Nah

 

You're shittin' yourself

You have no idea.

[gatito]

You have no idea.

 

Edited December 3, 2012 by gatito

[Marblehead]

Thanks. It was time we cleaned things up a bit.

[gatito]

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard, you might find that I am very rarely confused.

 

Santa Claus? Oh, sure.

Thanks. It was time we cleaned things up a bit.

 

You're welcome

 

Now you just need to clear up your belief in the religion of Atheism

[et-thoughts]

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Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Aaron]

Morality can also come from selfishness(damn, are we going off topic or what?)

A lot of people don't understand selfishness and try to avoid it while there is something to learn from it

BOOm, Tao Shellfish Ching

 

Kids are very grabby, before they were born they were a part of their mothers, after they were born they were still a part of their mothers, after playing outside they were a part of the world. It's not "this is mine and not yours" it's actually more like "this is mine and so are you and everything else". They are a part of the world but as they grow up they are slowly taught that things a separate and so they become selfish in a bad way. and when they finally become adults they become completely separate from everything and have to work and fight for things they can call their own. These adults need to be told. Children already feel a connection and empathy and so when someone hurts they hurt, too. This is not something to be taught but something to be reminded of and for that there is no need for religion(whew, made it back on topic )

 

Aaron

 

I can agree with the premise of your comment, but I disagree on some points. First, children are not born selfish, they are born compassionate, satisfied to receive what they need, and are simply happy just doing what they're doing, with no desire to compete. Selfishness is taught by parents, like when two children are fighting over a toy and the parent says to one child, "Bobby that's Johnie's toy, he's playing with it now, play with your own toys." This reinforces the idea that the toy is Bobby's and Bobby believes that he has the right to play with it and doesn't have to share it with others if he doesn't want to. In order for any kind of economy to work, capitalist in particular, the notion of possession has to be ingrained early, and we do that. We take this child who only wants what he needs and is perfectly willing to share and teach him that he doesn't need to share, in fact I'm positive that the reason that Johnie didn't want to share had nothing to do with natural behavior, but rather it was picked up by watching how his parents behaved.

 

Now two babies will fight, it's inevitable. But what normally happens (with good parenting) is that the babies settle their issues and move on. If one starts to cry, both cry, and we laugh, but on a deeper level this is important, because it shows the depth of empathy we are born with. The one baby doesn't cry because he's frightened, but because he knows he made the other baby feel bad and feels bad himself.

 

I had a twin brother. Growing up we shared everything even our clothes. It was never mine or his, but ours. The few incidents where something was mine or his were very confusing for me (like when he won a bicycle in a contest), however my mother, with all her faults, was wise enough to make sure that we shared our toys and understood that it was proper to share. Today I can't stand to see someone hungry or suffering. I've bought food for my coworkers on numerous occasions because they couldn't afford to buy it themselves. I don't do this out of a moral need, but because I feel sad when I know they're feeling sad.

 

I'm not sure what else to say, but you were on the right track, just a bit off, in my opinion.

 

Aaron

Edited December 3, 2012 by Aaron