Religion is the poison of Spirituality

[Birch]

 

What do you mean by adding that 'and for' Mr MH? I thought of it but decided no. I worried that 'for themselves' might take in 'from others' which is exactly what I disagree with:-)

[Marblehead]

What do you mean by adding that 'and for' Mr MH? I thought of it but decided no. I worried that 'for themselves' might take in 'from others' which is exactly what I disagree with:-)

Hi -K-,

 

Okay, let's look at this again: ... I certainly wouldn't fault others for striving for ideals from themselves.

 

For ideals from themselves (from within, from their own mind). Now, on who are they going to try to enforce these ideals upon? Themselves only? That's fine. On others? Not so good. I have my own ideals. You have your ideals. Others have their own ideals. If they are compatible then we can work together. If they are in conflict then we need to do our own work on our own.

 

I am sure that this is what you meant. But I just wanted to make sure we considered that we each must live our own life - we each must walk our own path. Sometimes we get to walk together for a while, sometimes we must walk alone (especially when others keep getting in our way and causing us hardship).

[Birch]

It was what I meant. But it looks like I didn't do a good enough job with the wording.

[Marblehead]

It was what I meant. But it looks like I didn't do a good enough job with the wording.

Hehehe. You did good. I was only trying to help.

[Birch]

No worries. Quote-tweaker;-)

More seriously, I would like to discuss these ideas further because they are rampant IMO/IME in many religions. It has been kindly suggested that all religions are merely vehicles to enlightenment. As far as I know, only Bhuddism claims vehicles and even then it claims there are lesser and greater vehicles. It has also been suggested that religions themselves are not at cause, that the people themselves are only using religion as justification for their all-too human faults. I don't want to offend The Lerner with this question, but why do we need a religion to tell us when and how to get together with family and friends?

[thelerner]

No worries. Quote-tweaker;-). I don't want to offend The Lerner with this question, but why do we need a religion to tell us when and how to get together with family and friends?

I'd say we don't. But it offers some good templates, particularly with the family. The greater point is there are good ideas all around, some come from religious frameworks. We can keep the great ideas, without having to pick up a whole dogma.

 

I'd add the religious overtone give it an importance that we'd otherwise lead to neglect. Because while it (for example weekly sabbath dinner) has great rewards in terms of family unity, its also depends on work and some sacrifice that would easily be blown off in the busyness of life.

Edited December 22, 2012 by thelerner

[Birch]

Alain de Botton has a whole book on 'Religion for Atheists' but I haven't read it.

[Marblehead]

TheLerner responded well to that post above so I feel no need to speak to it but will remain available for further discussion.

[Birch]

I'll bow out at this point:-)

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Religion is the poison of Spirituality?

 

Reality is the poison of Spirituligion...

[GrandmasterP]

Spiritlugion

Now with added caffeine and in even bigger bottles.

Buy one get one free.

Drink sensibly this Christmas.

[Aaron]

I think, as others have pointed out, that the crux is that people are afraid to think for themselves. The notion of religion being necessary has been ingrained upon them from childhood, so they feel that contradicting the notion of "God", ideology, or morality is in itself a mortal sin. Sad really. I saw a family praying at CiCi's pizza Friday night. Three little boys, all somber and serious, then after the amen, smiling away because the ceremony was over and they finally got what they wanted, pizza. I feel sorry for those kids.

 

Aaron

[konchog uma]

every native culture i have ever heard of thanks their version of the creator or the planet for the food they eat. Those kids have their own lives to live.. you feeling sorry is just like their bad religious feelings.. dogma. whats the difference?

 

and the reason people listen to their elders and their spiritual traditions is because nobody has the processing power in their brains to "think for themselves" about everything. Doesn't it ever seem stupid to you to throw away all the experience and advice of all these world traditions? Doesn't it ever seem like trying to reinvent the wheel?

 

970 posts saying next to nothing, and not one single answer to my point about fascist dictators and their atheist worldviews... telling

[Aaron]

every native culture i have ever heard of thanks their version of the creator or the planet for the food they eat. Those kids have their own lives to live.. you feeling sorry is just like their bad religious feelings.. dogma. whats the difference?

 

and the reason people listen to their elders and their spiritual traditions is because nobody has the processing power in their brains to "think for themselves" about everything. Doesn't it ever seem stupid to you to throw away all the experience and advice of all these world traditions? Doesn't it ever seem like trying to reinvent the wheel?

 

970 posts saying next to nothing, and not one single answer to my point about fascist dictators and their atheist worldviews... telling

 

Not at all, for Buddha actually taught that we need to abandon everything, that includes religious beliefs.

 

And the difference is because I can see the pain and suffering it will cause them in the future, something I would rather have them be free of.

 

Aaron

Edited December 24, 2012 by Aaron

[Marblehead]

... and their atheist worldviews... telling

Are you trying to get we Atheists re-involved in this thread? Remember, Buddhism really is an Atheistic religion.

[GrandmasterP]

Plenty of religious dictators out there too, historically far more of those than the political sorts.

DL is a religious dictator, so is Mr Pope, VMarco on here might well be, could he get the following. Osho had a half hearted go just to oblige those who seemed to need a dictator; but he kept giggling cos he never took anything too seriously.

Fascist is a facile epithet, bit like 'political correctness'. Used inaccurately the term signifies nothing beyond serving to define the user thereof.

There have been very few fascist dictators to whit, Franco, Mussolini and Hitler and those very much of a time and situation.

[Marblehead]

Ha! I just created a new label for myself: Atheistic Anarchist

[GrandmasterP]

Very rule bound those anachists.

Just cos it means 'no law' doesn't imply there are no rules. They do love a rule book do anarchists.

Used to be a super anarchist mag here called Black Flag, it ran for years, published out of the East End of London.

They were always falling out amongst themselves and splitting into factions bit like the Judean Popular Front etc in Monty Python's of Brian.

Got so that almost every issue was a manifesto cum rule book for whichever faction had held onto the editorship after the latest putsch.

Black Flag folded a few years back and is sadly missed.

[Marblehead]

Well, I can understand their folding.

 

Sad, you know, there is always someone who wants to be the boss, even of organizations that are designed to have no boss.

 

Therefore one of my favorite sayings: F*ck you and the horse you rode in on.

[GrandmasterP]

Well the horse is just doing a job really.

That said , I'm sure it gets mighty lonely out there on the prairie.

Scotsmen only took to wearing kilts because sheep became wary at the sound made by them unzipping.

Edited December 24, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Well the horse is just doing a job really.

That said , I'm sure it gets mighty lonely out there on the prairie.

Scotsmen only took to wearing kilts because sheep became wary at the sound made by them unzipping.

That post reminded me of something I am going to keep to myself. Hehehe.

[GrandmasterP]

;-)

[ShenLung]

That post reminded me of something I am going to keep to myself. Hehehe.

 

Ethical Atheistic Anarchist !

[Marblehead]

Ethical Atheistic Anarchist !

Yea!!!! You done good.

[GrandmasterP]

Illuminated Rascally Anarchist

(IRA)