Did Jesus give transmission to his disciples?

[hydrogen]

John 20: "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost"

 

Without doubt, Jesus was one of the most powerful enlightened person on earth. He could walk on water, turn water into wine and come back from death.

 

Could he give transimission by just breathing on his discples? I think so.

 

Then what is the use of Holy Ghost? Does anyone currently have the transmission (holy ghost)?

[Jeff]

I would definitely agree that Jesus gave transmission. Breathing could also be translated as something like "sending the winds" (life energy). Most traditions describe the Holy Ghost as God in the world (existence), not the specific transmission.

 

[thelerner]

FWIW in hebrew the word ruach can mean breath, mind, spirit. Its the root word in BaRuach- blessing.

 

Course in my biased estimation Jesus was a wise and wandering mystically bent rabbi whose life got caught up in various legends.

Edited November 29, 2012 by thelerner

[Jeff]

Hi Learner,

 

I definitely agree with your point, but if at the "inner level", it is a "transmission" (as in Dzogchen), and cannot be written down. A few more words from John on that point...

 

John 7:37-38 (KJV)

 

³⁷ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

³⁸ He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

Flowing "Living" water feels a lot like energy/light/vibrations (Kundalini/Holy Spirit).

 

 

(edit - chapter fixed - thanks seeker)

Edited November 30, 2012 by Jeff

[konchog uma]

Then what is the use of Holy Ghost? Does anyone currently have the transmission (holy ghost)?

 

i think shekinah might be the word translated as holy ghost from hebrew

 

ive seen parallels drawn to kundalini by scholars but i am not sure just sayin ive seen that

Edited November 29, 2012 by anamatva

[Bubbles]

A Chinese Christian sister living in Hong Kong has studied for the equivalent of a PhD thesis the way Christianity could resonate with Chinese cosmology. She says that Holy Ghost _who is the love between the Father and the Son_ is very much like the Primordial Qi which unites Dao-Wu ( Father) and Dao-You (the Son). This primordial Qi is the resonance (gan-ying) between the Father and the Son. Note that Jesus is in this model, the perfect Gan-ying between Heaven and Earth. He was/is full of Primordial Qi, and this explains why he could resuscitate.

 

If this Christian sister is right, to receive the Holy Ghost transmission, you should look for Primordial qi ( through real Christian rituals done by real Christian mystics) and cultivate it by yourself (Prayer, cultivation of an awakened mind, etc...)

 

I believe though that we can find that in most consistent spiritual paths

 

Hope it helps

Edited November 29, 2012 by bubbles

[Aetherous]

 

"When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues (legitimately speak in languages they didn't previously know) as the Spirit enabled them"

Acts 2:1-4

 

...

 

Transmission by breath is pretty common in all traditions, from the little that I know.

 

Also, understanding this stuff from reading is not easy. I am guessing you have to be part of a Christian mystery tradition, in order to understand the Christian mysteries...both through personal experience and knowledge they pass down to you.

Edited November 29, 2012 by turtle shell

[Creation]

i think shekinah might be the word translated as holy ghost from hebrew

 

ive seen parallels drawn to kundalini by scholars but i am not sure just sayin ive seen that

Hello.

 

Shekinah refers to a place of dwelling. It was given mystical meaning because of the idea of the presence of God dwelling in a location such as the Jerusalem temple. So it came to have the meaning of the power or glory of God manifested.

 

As thelearner said, ruach is the Hebrew word for spirit, so Holy Spirit would be ruach hakodesh, and ruach elohim would be Spirit of God. Ruach literally means wind, much like how the Greek word for spirit, pneuma, refers to breath.

[Creation]

A Chinese Christian sister living in Hong Kong has studied for the equivalent of a PhD thesis the way Christianity could resonate with Chinese cosmology. She says that Holy Ghost _who is the love between the Father and the Son_ is very much like the Primordial Qi which unites Dao-Wu ( Father) and Dao-You (the Son). This primordial Qi is the resonance (gan-ying) between the Father and the Son. Note that Jesus is in this model, the perfect Gan-ying between Heaven and Earth. He was/is full of Primordial Qi, and this explains why he could resuscitate.

One can see trinities everywhere if one looks. Consequently the religions of the world have many trinities. I think the Christian idea of the trinity developed because of this, as it was not in the Bible, but something that developed over hundreds of years.

 

In Chinese cosmology, there are Heaven-Human-Earth, Jing-Qi-Shen, Yin-Yang-Yuan, and probably more besides. So which one, if any, maps to the Christian trinity? That depends on how you understand the Christian trinity. I have never understood the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and Son. But interpreting the Father as the completely transcendent aspect of God, the Holy Spirit as the all-pervading energy of God, and the Son as God manifest in human form, I think that there is a very strong correspondence with the Buddhist doctrine of the Three Bodies of the Buddha.

[Bubbles]

One can see trinities everywhere if one looks. Consequently the religions of the world have many trinities. I think the Christian idea of the trinity developed because of this, as it was not in the Bible, but something that developed over hundreds of years.

 

I was mentioning a Christian sister who belongs to Roman catholicism. So saying that "trinity is not in the Bible" won't fit at all in her view, nor in the view of most Christians.

 

In Chinese cosmology, there are Heaven-Human-Earth, Jing-Qi-Shen, Yin-Yang-Yuan, and probably more besides. So which one, if any, maps to the Christian trinity? That depends on how you understand the Christian trinity.

 

It is not about how one can find term by term correspondence between apparent triads found in both systems.

 

She knows very well, being Chinese and Christian, that there is no such thing as three persons (same nature, 3 personalities) in Chinese thought/religions so the Sancai etc..won't fit. Her Phd thesis is an essay about inculturation in a Chinese world. Her thesis is way too long (400 p.) for me to quote, but it is definitely not a simplistic comparison as she dives deep in Christian theology and Chinese thought.

 

I have never understood the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and Son.

 

Well, this is a fudamental statement in Roman catholicism and Orthodoxy dogmas at least. The poems of John of the Cross are filled with this reference and many, many Christians mystics talk about it. So you may do a little search about it, if you are interested.

Edited November 29, 2012 by bubbles

[Creation]

Well, this is a fudamental statement in Roman catholicism and Orthodoxy dogmas at least. The poems of John of the Cross are filled with this reference and many, many Christians mystics talk about it. So you may do a little search about it, if you are interested.

Wow, I am shocked and embarrassed that I have never come across this before.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Verse 29 in Mark 3 states that there is one sin considered "eternal" and that is "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit"

 

I was reading once that the reason for this is that we are the Holy Spirit in some manner

 

This Self denial in the greatest sense being the cause of Samsara?

 

More of less refusing our Buddha Nature

 

Your greatest enemy is yourself?

 

Say God forgives you of all things, but you will not forgive yourself?

 

What then?

Edited November 29, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[thelerner]

i think shekinah might be the word translated as holy ghost from hebrew

 

ive seen parallels drawn to kundalini by scholars but i am not sure just sayin ive seen that

Some might argue, but I wouldn't. Shekinah is often used as a feminine side/spirit of God in main stream Judaism. Thus on happy occassions and seeing something new we say a prayer called The Shekinah.

 

Its funny how in deepest meditation most mystical traditions have in common a 'Satori' moment with the realization that all is one. But as we move away from that we end splitting god into pieces. I don't know, maybe its a useful necessity.

Edited November 30, 2012 by thelerner

[Seth Ananda]

Hello.

 

Shekinah refers to a place of dwelling. It was given mystical meaning because of the idea of the presence of God dwelling in a location such as the Jerusalem temple. So it came to have the meaning of the power or glory of God manifested.

 

As thelearner said, ruach is the Hebrew word for spirit, so Holy Spirit would be ruach hakodesh, and ruach elohim would be Spirit of God. Ruach literally means wind, much like how the Greek word for spirit, pneuma, refers to breath.

Its more complicated than that.

When you read the old testament in Hebrew it indeed uses all these words but unfortunately all of them get translated into 'The Holy Spirit' or occasionally Breath, or sometimes just God.

For instance one passage says something like {lol its a long time since I studied any of this} God turns his face towards Israel as a hen turns to face her chicks. in Hebrew its Shekinah {gods female face} translated as God, but in other places Shekinah or totally different concepts just become the holy spirit.

[C T]

During those moments when there is a certain deep feeling of equanimity felt, where one simply sense, at the core of one's being, that everything is exactly as it is, all is well, no struggles to push for change, a deep acceptance wells up... then, simultaneously, one sees holiness everywhere, a glow perhaps, light... during such moments, i have no qualms to equate this with the concept of being suffused with holy spirit.

 

But, this is just me, i am some kind of a heretic, so i am not bound by any buddhistic conventions even tho' i tend to work mostly within its premises.

[Brian]

Hi Learner,

 

I definitely agree with your point, but if at the "inner level", it is a "transmission" (as in Dzogchen), and cannot be written down. A few more words from John on that point...

 

John 1:37-38 (KJV)

 

³⁷ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

³⁸ He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

Flowing "Living" water feels a lot like energy/light/vibrations (Kundalini/Holy Spirit).

 

 

The next verse is curious, BTW:

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Edited November 30, 2012 by A Seeker

[hydrogen]

Verse 29 in Mark 3 states that there is one sin considered "eternal" and that is "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit"

 

I was reading once that the reason for this is that we are the Holy Spirit in some manner

 

 

I think you got it right. One can never deny his own existence.

 

Just to clarify, I asked the question because I think I saw the Holy Spirit in me. During my meditation, I had a rapture. I saw the "golden" man, a blue wired framed man radiant briliant golden light.

 

I didn't know what it was because I wasn't a devoted Christian though I was baptized twenty years ago. I didn't attend church service at all. And I was practicing a mixture of yoga and taosist method. Then why I suspect it was "holy spirit"?

 

When I was in "hell", nobody came to my rescue except Jesus. Somehow I believed that I was personfication of Jesus. He/I gave me the courage to walk my own path. He/I told me my life was worth living and I would define my own destiny. And any path I took, it'd be fine with God.

 

Another reason I think it was the "holy spirit" becasue I believe in Jesus now. It's a pure logical deduction (please don't turn this into a religion war, I respect all the prophet and mystics. But I do have my preference)

 

I ask myself a question if I pick a neighbour, who I'd like him to be.

 

Lao Tzu? He'd ride away in his ox with a care about me.

Humammad? He'd force me to believe in him, or he'd kill me or collect 10% of my income. I'd move away from him.

Buddha (my second choice)? He'd say "you should do your own work, for I can teach only the way."

Hindu God? I don't know if I'd get Kali or Shiva. And I could tell since they have many avatars.

Judaism God? I'm not jew. I don't want to be under knife. (circumcision)

Jesus? Yes. He'd die for me. Even he's wrong, we'd be together to figure something out.

[Jeff]

John 7 rather than John 1...

 

Thanks. Fixed.

 

[Bubbles]

When I was in "hell", nobody came to my rescue except Jesus. Somehow I believed that I was personfication of Jesus. He/I gave me the courage to walk my own path. He/I told me my life was worth living and I would define my own destiny. And any path I took, it'd be fine with God.

 

Would you accept to share your story? What was your "hell"? If you have already told your story at TTB, please give us the link.

 

Jesus? Yes. He'd die for me. Even he's wrong, we'd be together to figure something out.

 

This is the true mark of Christianity.

 

Thank you for your post

[Edward M]

Good posts on here so far here is a good/interesting video:

 

 

Peace

[hydrogen]

Would you accept to share your story? What was your "hell"? If you have already told your story at TTB, please give us the link.

 

 

 

This is the true mark of Christianity.

 

Thank you for your post

 

I've been trying to write my experience for a while. But I have to figure out what happened first. Time and space was wrapped at that period. I'm better to write it in a chronical order for others to understand.

 

I don't feel comfortable to call myself Christian. Because my idea is dramatically different from the conventional Christan teaching. For example, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think "Christianality" is the only true "religion". There are many other path to see God. And I believe "God" was human. Christ was a tool/process/person that God created to help us in the spiritual evolution.

 

Most Christan church would lable me as heretic.

[Jeff]

 

 

I've been trying to write my experience for a while. But I have to figure out what happened first. Time and space was wrapped at that period. I'm better to write it in a chronical order for others to understand.

 

I don't feel comfortable to call myself Christian. Because my idea is dramatically different from the conventional Christan teaching. For example, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think "Christianality" is the only true "religion". There are many other path to see God. And I believe "God" was human. Christ was a tool/process/person that God created to help us in the spiritual evolution.

 

Most Christan church would lable me as heretic.

 

Count me in as a Dzogchen/Taoist/Gnostic type modified Christian...

 

In the end, the truth is the truth.

 

 

[Aetherous]

Edward, thanks for posting that! I'll be looking into Dale Allen Hoffman's other stuff. I have always felt that the English translations of the Bible are way too incomplete (especially with that word, Word), despite the fact that they still convey a lot of great meaning.

 

edit: looking at his website, in the links I came upon this book, which might be a great source to learn similar ideas from.

Edited November 30, 2012 by turtle shell

[Bubbles]

I don't feel comfortable to call myself Christian. Because my idea is dramatically different from the conventional Christan teaching. For example, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think "Christianality" is the only true "religion". There are many other path to see God. And I believe "God" was human. Christ was a tool/process/person that God created to help us in the spiritual evolution.

 

Most Christan church would lable me as heretic.

 

There may be as much distance between conventional christianity and what Jesus taught as there is between a cigar and a moxa.

[Eskrimador]

http://www.stuartxchange.org/Quiapo.html

 

Real cheistianity here in Quiapo.