Harmonious Emptiness Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Just a suggestion.. If you want to start a topic, for which you feel some responsibility to ensure the discussion does not become undignified, by those neglecting the path of appropriate speech; if you will, please post a link in THIS thread, to say that there is a topic in your PPD for a dignified discussion. It doesn't necessarily need to be about your own practice, but you will be the host/mod for that discussion and delete abusive or trolling, unnecessary posts as you see fit. As some old Daoists have said, "when justice is not regulated, people are less likely to commit crimes than when the punishments are arbitrated by judicial systems and not the common people," so don't be too surprised to hear this from a Chuang-Laoist . This is not to say that no-holds barred conversations are not also necessary, but I think this provides a useful option to mod as you see fit. Of course over-governing will just end up in trees fallin' with nobody to hear 'em. [edit: and hating on someone while deleting their responses would just be abusive and against TTB regulations on haterade.] Edited November 30, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) As some old Daoists have said, "when justice is not regulated, people are less likely to commit crimes than when the punishments are arbitrated by judicial systems and not the common people," so don't be too surprised to hear this from a Chuang-Laoist . Im not sure I feel this argument supports the idea of personally moderated threads ,, but I dont see any problem with trying it. I appreciate the light hand the mods have exercised ,I figure its a difficult and thankless task I do get the idea that individuals want to have lots of control , however , I do think there are subtle ways to influence the flow of a thread which arent often employed , number one being simply to monitor it closely rather than create one and then walk away from it. ( but thats just my opinion , so knock yourself out , give it a shot , if you want , Im curious what 'dignified' looks like and if its any different from 'pompous'.) It seems to me that there is a level of remoteness to the PPD's , one has to jump around and search for them , many seem to be 'talking to oneself'. They are 'off the beaten path' isolated , and simply to have them listed differently might encourage the use of that resource. The general forums get most of the action and one basically is speaking to the general TB membership rather than addressing a particular individual to get their input ,,, if you know what I mean., which invites more randomness inherently, dont you think so? Edited November 30, 2012 by Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 30, 2012 I am trying hard to ignore Personal Practice threads. I don't like others having control of me and what I say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted November 30, 2012 Some of the best threads, particularly for learning and getting a sense of a system is can be found in the Personal Practice area. There are indepth journals of people who've done KAP, Stillness-Movement, Kunlun that give an excellent (but subjective) first hand information for what is possible to get out of these practices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted November 30, 2012 Im not sure I feel this argument supports the idea of personally moderated threads ,, but I dont see any problem with trying it. I appreciate the light hand the mods have exercised ,I figure its a difficult and thankless task I do get the idea that individuals want to have lots of control , however , I do think there are subtle ways to influence the flow of a thread which arent often employed , number one being simply to monitor it closely rather than create one and then walk away from it. ( but thats just my opinion , so knock yourself out , give it a shot , if you want , Im curious what 'dignified' looks like and if its any different from 'pompous'.) It seems to me that there is a level of remoteness to the PPD's , one has to jump around and search for them , many seem to be 'talking to oneself'. They are 'off the beaten path' isolated , and simply to have them listed differently might encourage the use of that resource. The general forums get most of the action and one basically is speaking to the general TB membership rather than addressing a particular individual to get their input ,,, if you know what I mean., which invites more randomness inherently, dont you think so? Don't get me wrong, the General Discussion is still great, but often times a topic is started and people who have zero respect for the subject end up doing all the posting, which ends up in a battle instead of a discussion. So this would allow for a discussion only between people who all share an interest and respect for the topic. In defining "dignified," this discussion is still dignified. No attempts have been made to insult any person, tradition, world view, etc., and we are still sharing our opinions with a certain standard of respect for each other, rather than (for example) making a rude or offensive remark in order to grab attention from the conversation. Our different viewpoints are still being expressed and noted without resorting to immaturity. For some topics, such as sacred texts or traditions, I feel this standard needs to be reliable, or they simply will not be discussed by certain people who hold a certain level of respect for them. It doesn't seem we have too many Stalinesque people here who will simply delete any counter viewpoints. More than likely these viewpoints are equally appreciated - so long as they are given with a certain degree of respect for the topic and do not attempt to insult the other people in the conversation. What you said is true too though, that people who start a topic can try to get people to stay on track, however this can be an impossible task at times. I'm thinking of it like, if somebody walks into a classroom or place of worship and acts like an A-hole, they will be removed in order to maintain the dignity of the space. We can't really do this sort of thing here, but I think there needs to be some reliable quality control for certain topics be discussable here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted November 30, 2012 Just a suggestion.. If you want to start a topic, for which you feel some responsibility.... It doesn't necessarily need to be about your own practice, but you will be the host/mod for that discussion and delete abusive or trolling, unnecessary posts as you see fit. It's a good idea to try. When I come here, I click on 'view new content' so pp discussion entries come up anyhow, as new contributions. I think it a very good idea to self moderate, to use the board as a kind of practice in itself. And I think if one wishes to discuss something seriously and without chat or off topic posts, then using a pp format is ideal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted November 30, 2012 HE, I get your meaning. Its the kind of thing to try and see how it goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted November 30, 2012 I am trying hard to ignore Personal Practice threads. I don't like others having control of me and what I say. Yeah , the idea of one sided control can be offputting and a broader stage alleviates that Im just not much in a habit of broadcasting to crowds , nor do I care for back room discussions I like the idea of several individuals having a focused discourse with a peanut gallery chiming in to keep things rolling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted November 30, 2012 It's a good idea to try. When I come here, I click on 'view new content' so pp discussion entries come up anyhow, as new contributions. I think it a very good idea to self moderate, to use the board as a kind of practice in itself. And I think if one wishes to discuss something seriously and without chat or off topic posts, then using a pp format is ideal. I should probably try that option again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humble Posted December 1, 2012 I would like to try this. How do you get a personal whatchamacallit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted December 2, 2012 I would like to try this. How do you get a personal whatchamacallit? Just make a request for one in the Tech Support forum link Don't forget to link your topic here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humble Posted December 3, 2012 Just make a request for one in the Tech Support forum link Don't forget to link your topic here Thank you ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted December 11, 2012 Hosted thread on Joel Signeur's lectures, the Five Elements, Chinese Shamanism http://thetaobums.com/topic/25770-chinese-shamanism/#entry381870 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) The truth of the matter is that most likely you would not know of such people actions because when they delete any counter viewpoint there is little evidence for others to realize what was done... personally I encountered many such individuals who simply delete and silence any counter viewpoints... even though the positions are given with respect for the topic and do not seek to insult the other persons in the conversation... some feel insulted and refuse to address the issues... sometimes its because it boils down to one either agrees with what be and exposing ones position or disagrees with it and exposing ones position... In any event I do think its appropriate to have certain topics under individual control to keep it focused and help the moderators out... it would be nice to have a bit more transparency of actions... by allowing to edit out the content but specifying thats what took place... and maybe even spin off a different thread in a new linked-thread... just my two cents I don't think people post much in their private personal practice forums because they want the opinions of others, I don't. If they wanted a public discussion where everyone was free to disagree and troll they would post in general discussion. If you want to argue your opinion on a topic so others can see, well no one is stopping you from doing so. I think it's disrespectful to go into someone else's personal forum and argue with them ad nauseum. Edited December 11, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted December 11, 2012 The fact you added the word 'private' reveals quite a bit of your position on the matter... The personal practice forum for me is just a place to put the topics I desire to dialogue with others on without clogging up other spaces... yea if you see it as your private place I can see what you mean... but why would you put stuff here if you want it to be private ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) The fact you added the word 'private' reveals quite a bit of your position on the matter... The personal practice forum for me is just a place to put the topics I desire to dialogue with others on without clogging up other spaces... yea if you see it as your private place I can see what you mean... but why would you put stuff here if you want it to be private ? If you don't hold a mainstream view, and if you post in the main forum areas you can be certain that it will turn into a 30 page debate. You are left with few options: 1. Don't post at all. 2. Post once or twice, and ignore the rest of the crowd while they dog-pile you, and they walk away laughing at what pushover and coward you were. 3. Continue to debate for 30 pages with a bunch of idiots who have no clue what they are talking about. Stay up late after work to continue the argument to the point it cuts in on your own sleep, health, well being, and practice, gain nothing as a result of sticking it out (other than a few grey hairs), risk ticking off the mods to the point of suspension. 4. Post in your personal practice forum, lock the topic, take debates via PM. Usually private debates don't get the snowball effect that public debates do. None of these options are really good options in my opinion. But given a choice I'd say posting in your personal practice forum, and preventing arguments before they start is probably the least stressful. Edited December 11, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) The best policy to follow is "a fallacy cannot win the truth" which means what is correct is always correct; and what is false is always false. A fallacy cannot hold water and always collapse on it own. So, why even bother to do a foolish thing by arguing with a fool; only a fool argues with a fool(dialogue from a movie "Gone with the Wind). PS..... Everyone has the right to defend the truth but shall not defend a fallacy. Edited December 12, 2012 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted December 12, 2012 The best policy to follow is "a fallacy cannot win the truth" which means what is correct is always correct; and what is false is always false. A fallacy cannot hold water and always collapse on it own. So, why even bother to do a foolish thing by arguing with a fool; only a fool argues with a fool(dialogue from a movie "Gone with the Wind). PS..... Everyone has the right to defend the truth but shall not defend a fallacy. The fool defends the fallacy as if it where the truth whilst knowing they can't win rather than dare to recognize the truth... You in essence asked: why even bother to argue with a fool? Is it a foolish idea to argue with a fool whilst one uses the interaction to show others what collapse on its own and what goes on and on? Who knows the fool may even come to their senses and start to copy the truth ... most likely the fools will claim it as their own... or secretly ridicule it ... or secretly enthrone it.... rather than daring to openly recognize the truth of the matter. Yes what is correct is always correct... and what is not correct is always not correct... still some fools defend their fallacies as if they where the truth... afraid of the truth being known... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 13, 2012 The fool defends the fallacy as if it where the truth whilst knowing they can't win rather than dare to recognize the truth... You in essence asked: why even bother to argue with a fool? Is it a foolish idea to argue with a fool whilst one uses the interaction to show others what collapse on its own and what goes on and on? Who knows the fool may even come to their senses and start to copy the truth ... most likely the fools will claim it as their own... or secretly ridicule it ... or secretly enthrone it.... rather than daring to openly recognize the truth of the matter. Yes what is correct is always correct... and what is not correct is always not correct... still some fools defend their fallacies as if they where the truth... afraid of the truth being known... I have absolutely no idea what you just said xD... it sounds like this to me: “You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted December 13, 2012 I have absolutely no idea what you just said xD... it sounds like this to me: 'the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
