Practice, lifestyle, and personal preference

[Greyharte]

I would agree regarding usefulness. I realize some people may be more inclined to become addicted to some thing than others, but not everyone is the same. I feel that's one of the reasons that there are several sects (perhaps even religions in that case) with varying "moral" do's and don't's. If tobacco hinders your development, then don't use it. If it is able to help it (perhaps as a slight soothing tool), then have at it if you so choose. Same with alcohol, but with everything, always in moderation.

 

In regards to tobacco, however, I think a pipe or cigar might be a better alternative to cigarettes. Yeah, it can be more expensive, but it's also more meditative and can actually give you a chance to focus on mindfulness. It depends on your intention. Similarly, alcohol can be enjoyed if you first limit yourself (I personally leave it around two 5% ABV drinks or the equivalent). If you focus moreso on the tastes (like wine connosuers) than the alcohol itself, then it becomes another mindfulness exercise.

 

This should only be done for those that can control it, however. A spiritually-realized individual (or Spirit-talker, my personal favorite term) will know if it gets in their way or not. At the same time, I personally feel that they will also realize that no teacher will ever be perfect. If you constantly sit around waiting on the perfect teacher, you'll never learn anything. I've learned that with my recently restarted martial arts instructors. The neighbor has said some bad things about them, but I've learned to look past that. A mature individual (to me) is able to ignore the surfaces and learn regardless of the individual teacher.

 

I just remembered one more thing. I will agree with Christianity (one of the few times I can honestly say that) in that, if doing something traps your neighbor, then you shouldn't do it. In other words, if you have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic (or just alcoholic period) that you're visiting at a restaurant or something, then obviously you shouldn't go to a bar if you can help it. Also, it wouldn't be good to order a drink if you know it will tempt them. You wouldn't want to be the cause of your friend's relapse (or worse). Merely a suggestion...

[9th]

The body is essentially empty like the stem of a reed,
And the mind, like pure space, utterly transcends the world of thought:
Relax into your intrinsic nature with neither abandon nor control -
Mind with no objective is Mahamudra -
And, with practice perfected, supreme enlightenment is gained.

The clear light of Mahamudra cannot be revealed
By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises
Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka;
The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals.

By harbouring rigid precepts the true samaya is impaired,
But with cessation of mental activity all fixed notions subside;
When the swell of the ocean is at one with its peaceful depths,
When mind never strays from indeterminate, non-conceptual truth,
The unbroken samaya is a lamp lit in spiritual darkness.

Free of intellectual conceits, disavowing dogmatic principles,
The truth of every school and scripture is revealed.
Absorbed in Mahamudra, you are free from the prison of samsara;
Poised in Mahamudra, guilt and negativity are consumed;
And as master of Mahamudra you are the light of the Doctrine.

 

 

- Tilopa

[Stosh]

Coffee isnt crap , its very high in antioxidents ,

the highest levels of any regularly consumed item Im told

Some folks try to find something bad in anything pleasurable

It has its blessings too , in moderation or reasonable abundance

its certainly a rather innocuous "vice"

then again,,

deprivation for the heck of it ,doesnt seem spiritual to me either

 

ironically it helps to keep one regular !

Tea on the other hand is

 

 

 

One of the most famous and important statements attributed to Tilopa is: “The problem is not enjoyment; the problem is attachment.”^[5]Tilopa

Edited February 20, 2013 by Stosh

[Stosh]

The body is essentially empty like the stem of a reed,

And the mind, like pure space, utterly transcends the world of thought:

Relax into your intrinsic nature with neither abandon nor control -

Mind with no objective is Mahamudra -

And, with practice perfected, supreme enlightenment is gained.

 

The clear light of Mahamudra cannot be revealed

By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises

Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka;

The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals.

 

By harbouring rigid precepts the true samaya is impaired,

But with cessation of mental activity all fixed notions subside;

When the swell of the ocean is at one with its peaceful depths,

When mind never strays from indeterminate, non-conceptual truth,

The unbroken samaya is a lamp lit in spiritual darkness.

 

Free of intellectual conceits, disavowing dogmatic principles,

The truth of every school and scripture is revealed.

Absorbed in Mahamudra, you are free from the prison of samsara;

Poised in Mahamudra, guilt and negativity are consumed;

And as master of Mahamudra you are the light of the Doctrine.

 

 

- Tilopa

 

Thanks for posting that , its beautiful

and the other stuff it pointed me at are also terriffic

IMO

[zerostao]

Edited February 21, 2013 by zerostao

[Stosh]

What? I thought it was well put , and I googled up some other quotes I liked

but yes , it aint my usual fare.

 

Then again , you could be defensive about a beverage , which would be an odd bagatelle,

(but common enough.).

 

 

Sorry If I was playing too rough

Edited February 21, 2013 by Stosh

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I love coffee.

I love tea.


I Love water.



It's all the same to me.





Except moose piss.

Nicky turned some kids apple juice into moose piss (watching a movie)

[9th]

KYE HO! Listen with joy!
The truth beyond mind cannot be grasped by any faculty of mind;
The meaning of non-action cannot be understood in compulsive activity;
To realise the meaning of non-action and beyond mind,
Cut the mind at its root and rest in naked awareness.

Allow the muddy waters of mental activity to clear;
Refrain from both positive and negative projection -
leave appearances alone:
The phenomenal world, without addition or subtraction, is Mahamudra.

The unborn omnipresent base dissolves your impulsions and delusions:
Do not be conceited or calculating but rest in the unborn essence
And let all conceptions of yourself and the universe melt away.

The highest vision opens every gate;
The highest meditation plumbs the infinite depths;
The highest activity is ungoverned yet decisive;
And the highest goal is ordinary being devoid of hope and fear.

At first your karma is like a river falling through a gorge;
In mid-course it flows like a gently meandering River Ganga;
And finally, as a river becomes one with the ocean,
It ends in consummation like the meeting of mother and son.

 

 

- Tilopa

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"let" implies its trying to do it for me.



"it" is not.

[9th]

Dont confuse the word "tree" for the tree itself.

 

The menu is not the meal.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

im starving, this isnt a restaurant, im not getting served, there's no food, the whole things is an illusion.



Doesnt make the illusion any less unsavory.

[9th]

'Unsettled' means yin and yang are not yet settled. As to the qualities of the hexagram, below is water a pitfall, and above is fire —, bright: Bright on the outside while dark on the inside, causing downfall by brightness, producing brightness because of danger, yin and yang are awry, and do not correspond; so it is called 'unsettled'.

Once people reach the age of sixteen, heaven and earth commingle: The yang in the middle of heaven enters the palace of earth, so earth is filled and becomes water - the yin in the middle of earth enters the palace of heaven so heaven is hollowed out and becomes fire. The yin in fire receives the yang energy of heaven, yin and yang aggregate, and it turns into fire. The yang in water receives the yin energy of earth, yin and yang steam, and it becomes water. This fire and water are in the temporal mixing of yin and yang, the confusion of real and artificial; growing day and night, the warm gentle fire changes into violent hot fire, and the water of true unity changes into the water of unbridled lust.

Once the nature of fire erupts, the discriminatory consciousness takes charge of affairs, and the original spirit withdraws. Once the nature of water acts, the polluted vitality causes trouble and the original vitality is depleted. At this point people begin to vie for honor, plunder for profit, contest for victory, and seek power, depriving others to benefit themselves, using intellectual brightness outwardly; indulging in emotions, giving free rein to their desires, deluded by objects of sense, they ravage and abandon themselves, the danger of mundanity being stored within. Bright on the outside but dark on the inside, they bury the real and accept the false; the human mentality looms dangerously, the mind of Tao is now faint—essence is disturbed, life is shaken, yin and yang are out of harmony, the five elements injure one another. All sorts of emotions and cravings are in full force, all sorts of schemes and wiles are there. This is why being unsettled is unsettled.

However, being unsettled means not yet having reached settlement; it does not mean settlement is not possible, only that the person has not yet sought that settlement. If one seeks settlement, ultimately it will be possible to be settled. This is why there is a development aspect to being unsettled. But though there is a way of development in an unsettled state, nevertheless since the negative energy of acquired conditioning has been operative for so long, and the primordial true positivity has sunken so deeply, settlement cannot be effected immediately; the work of self-refinement is necessary before you can see an effect. Self-refinement means refining the human mind. The human mind is the progenitor of all mundanities; once the human mind is gone, accumulated mundanities evaporate, "light arises in the empty room," and true celestial energy gradually approaches restoration.

But before refinement of the self is perfected, the mind is not empty and the light is not true; negativity and mundanity still have not withdrawn completely, and one cannot seek their end in a hurry. If one does not know the firing process and rushes to achieve settlement, this is still the human mentality acting, working with false understanding. Then the unsettled will never be settled. This is like "a small fox, having nearly crossed the river, gets its tail wet and does not succeed." A fox is associated with yin, a creature known for its suspiciousness. Though a small fox is not very suspicious, it cannot be entirely free from doubts. As long as the human mentality is not gone, the mind of Tao does not become manifest; this is like the small fox—though nearly settled, before reaching settlement, if the refinement of the self is incomplete when settlement is nearly reached, though one wants to go ahead, one instead falls behind.

 

Having faith, one drinks wine without blame. When one gets one's head wet, having faith ceases to be right.

At the end of being unsettled, when settlement is taking place, one can believe yin and yang will settle each other, this proceeding naturally and not depending on forced effort. So one can drink wine, have a party, without blame. However, although there is complete settlement in terms of celestial time, still human affairs cannot be neglected; one does one's best in human affairs, thereby assisting the Way of heaven. Then heaven and humanity act together; having faith in settlement, this faith is right. Otherwise, settlement in celestial time will be no more than a chance interval: Without the accomplishment of adjusting water and fire, the primordial treasure that has come will go again. When settling is unstable, it eventually becomes unsettled: This is like getting the head wet, having faith that is no longer right.

 

 

- Taoist I-Ching

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

for every paragraph i complete, one letter is understood; HUH? i dont get it.

[Stosh]

im starving, this isnt a restaurant, im not getting served, there's no food, the whole things is an illusion.

 

 

 

Doesnt make the illusion any less unsavory.

 

Just an opinion but ..

 

The tao provides us with all we really need ( illusory or not)

it provides us with things to do

a place to do them all

and the means to accomplish some of them

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"need" does not exist in the genuine meaning of the word itself. "Need" implies "cannot exist/continue/accomplish without" and because nothing NEEDS to exist, continue, or be accomplished, "need" is a hollow and meaningless trick-word.


The "needs" we experience, psychologically, physically, emotionally, intellectually, do not matter, no matter how painful they are.



And in the end, i only hate the experience of suffering and wish to divorce myself completely from that experience... except it is prerequisite to any-all experience(s).


Sadly, suffering is the only one i am allowed to know today.


And yesterday.


Maybe tomorrow wont suck deity anus.

[Stosh]

Wow thats a heavy heart

but there aint no need to call my use of the word need a trick

I try to stick to the realm of the world we walk and talk in

Im fine with whatever that is, most of the time

 

I cant bring myself that say ,, the hurt of a hurt DOESN"T matter

I just was brought up to care about things ( certainly too much too often)

but ....I care about my job, and my life ,folks around me, and even whether my

kitty cat is happy with her dinner. How silly is that !

I just try to keep the weight of the world light enough that my days

dont suck deity butt partly by taking the highs of even dinky 'blessings' seriously

and writing off the things that aint so hot.

"Just write it OFF ! " as Cosmo Kramer might say.

Sure its cherry picking ! Why NOT cherry pick! Its my darn illusion !

 

My reading of the TTC is about the mundane world and I think it provides perspectives

about mundane topics ,, yep I know It isnt a dogmatically supported view

But again its my darn Illusion now and Im sticking to it.

For me..

The ethereal world AND the mundane world both get a hefty grain of salt

( ironically becoming ... lighter ! )

 

By the way I know I am being rather vague here , I dont know the ins and outs of your situation

only you really would anyhow , and I am not blowing smoke up your ass either. A great deal

of what physically comes about owes itself to ....internal climate. ( not talking magic here either)

Stosh

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i need a notepad to write down angry crapola... oh hey look at this program called notepad!


Hurh... some days just bind ya up, and other days are smooth and a good ride... cant pick 'em, can only push through them. heh i hate being a burden, but find it hard to catch myself online!

[LBDaoist]

Everything we put into our bodies influences the quality of our qi. Those who smoke are going to have qi that is less clean than those who breath clean mountain air. Those who consume pre-processed and dead food are going to have less lively qi than those who eat fresh vegetables. Those who drink soda and alcohol will have less pure qi than those who drink clean water.

 

Lao Tzu had something to say that is relevant here.

 

"The fool hears it and falls apart laughing."

 

The sages have passed down certain traditions through the ages for good reason, many of which do not even become evident until the disciplines have been followed for a long period of time.

 

Anyone can walk the Path. There are many false paths and aberrant practices.

 

A wise person once suggested to me that the higher levels of practice can only be built upon a table with four sturdy, equal length legs. Those legs are; health, finances, job/career/profession and relationships.

 

Whenever you consider the validity of a person's teachings, take a look at their life and the stability of their table. It will be a very solid indicator of the depth of their practice.

 

Having said all that, one of my favorite Taoist proverbs is, "If I only meet three people today, one of them can be my teacher." There are plenty of people out there with bad habits who can teach us things.

[Birch]

i need a notepad to write down angry crapola... oh hey look at this program called notepad!

Hurh... some days just bind ya up, and other days are smooth and a good ride... cant pick 'em, can only push through them. heh i hate being a burden, but find it hard to catch myself online!

 

I've got a notebook (paper) for that very purpose. Luckily my hand writing is illegible:-) I used it the other day as I was having my morning coffee. Sometimes as I write the whatever it is I also find myself writing a solution as well.