A review of AYP from an ex practitioner

[gatito]

I was eventually told that the practices are designed "to impair cognitive reasoning skills" and that AYP is an experiment and that the inner circle are expecting casualities but that it's "worth it"

 

Forgot to mention that I have this in writing.

 

Anyone wishing to see it in person can PM me to arrange a meeting.

[gatito]

[gatito]

Hi Seeker,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Your post touches on quite of few points.

 

In general, I would agree that it is difficult for a beginner to be able to tell if they are really experiencing what AYP calls "inner silence", but this is true of any system where one just reads a book. That is one of the reasons why I think having a teacher is always helpful. Additionally, AYP a couple of years ago started having retreats to help teach. The fees for the retreats just cover facilities and instructors are not paid. An experienced practioner knows that with true "inner silence" there is a corresponding growth in the flow of energy. They are two sides of the same coin.

 

Your listed research was on TM and not AYP. I am personally not familiar with TM, but there are numerous posts on the AYP forum discussing the differences. The only research on AYP (meditation) that I am aware of is a clinical study being done at a health system in the Detroit area. The study is focused on heart/cardiac issues, but the results I have seen are very positive. I think the paper is being published soon.

 

The AYP forum has about 4800 members and 1800 who have posted. Most describe a much different experience than yours, but there is an endless number of experiences to read about.

 

Finally, there are many members at AYP who describe they have realized the Self (or various degrees). I have found them all willing to chat by email (or on the forum). I have my own opinions, but everyone can easily make their own judgement. You may not agree with the practices, but you surely must agree that they are very open (and chatty) group that are always happy to talk about their experiences.

 

[Jeff]

 

Forgot to mention that I have this in writing.

 

Anyone wishing to see it in person can PM me to arrange a meeting.

 

How about just a simple PM with a name? If you have such information, why would you keep it secret?

 

I will be happy to check into it and report back. Also, if you would like, I would be happy to check with an AYP leader find out why any of you were banned.

 

But, making vague and unsubstantiated claims like above is truly unfair. And completely undermines your (and your associates) credibility in any discussion.

[gatito]

How about just a simple PM with a name? If you have such information, why would you keep it secret?

 

I will be happy to check into it and report back. Also, if you would like, I would be happy to check with an AYP leader find out why any of you were banned.

 

But, making vague and unsubstantiated claims like above is truly unfair. And completely undermines your (and your associates) credibility in any discussion.

 

In person laddie!

 

Oh dear - you forgot the smiley

 

Here's mine

 

[gatito]

I was banned fo saying that the practices were "potentially dangerous" and for "promoting alternatives" to AYP

[gatito]

I've got that in writing as well (from yogani himself)

[Jeff]

 

 

In person laddie!

 

Oh dear - you forgot the smiley

 

Here's mine

 

 

The UK is a little out of my neighborhood (US for me). There is no logical reason that you are requiring an in person meeting, other than as an excuse to hide behind the fact that there is no such message.

 

On smiles, unlike some, I take my statements and facts seriously.

 

[Jeff]

I've got that in writing as well (from yogani himself)

 

Obviously, you would have a banning notice from Yogani. He would do the honorable thing and explain his actions, even if his disagreed with you.

 

[gatito]

The UK is a little out of my neighborhood (US for me). There is no logical reason that you are requiring an in person meeting, other than as an excuse to hide behind the fact that there is no such message.

 

On smiles, unlike some, I take my statements and facts seriously.

 

The Boy Blunder has struck again! ROLF!!!

 

I'm happy to meet anyone in Madrid, Paris or London - send another of yogani's henchpersons to verify.

 

And the invitation's open to anyone who's interested enough to turn-up. You don't need to be a henchperson (unless you want to be) LMAO!!!

 

[Creation]

I recall seeing somewhere, on the AYP site or from an AYP practitioner on this forum, the idea that Yogani viewed AYP as an experiment. Honestly, the model is clearly trailblazing: "What happens when you give out very powerful yoga practices for free on the internet and de-emphasize devotion to a 'guru'?"

 

But then the questions arise: Who is entitled to evaluate the results of this experimenter? Who is going to entitled to say "We have drawn such and such a conclusion from this experiment and recommend such and such a modification of the system/model?

 

And this is where apparently things get difficult: Can you ever stop the experiment now that the practices are out there? Will Yogani lets some guy(s) on the internet tell him what the results of his experiment are? Wouldn't that compromise the ongoing experiment? And really, just how much is it really an experiment and how much is it actually it's own group/system that is self propagating and self preserving like any other such group?

Edited December 8, 2012 by Creation

[gatito]

@ Jeff

 

I meant to say "ROFL!!! (still!!!!)

 

Sorry about the typo

 

[Creation]

I was initially turned on to AYP because of positive reviews from Tao Bums I respected (that was years ago). Upon reading up, I was very very impressed that Yogani seemed to have studied just about every type of Yoga available in the West and synthesized it all together into one system, and that he was openly talking about stuff that so many shied away from (e.g. kundalini, crown overload issues, khecari mudra, vajroli mudra, the need for both meditation and energy cultivation, how other yoga practices could serve as prerequisites to follow the direct path of self inquiry). I never practiced the system myself, but I had respect for it and those who practiced it.

 

So it is very interesting to me to see these criticisms coming out now. I am particularly grateful for Seeker of the Self's review, because it is very rationally presented and does not have heavy feelings of bitterness and resentment attached to it, which generally turn me off to what a person is saying. I am also grateful to Tibetan Ice for pointing out good sources for alternative meditation practices that do not succumb to the same criticisms as AYP DM.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Creation

[gatito]

I was initially turned on to AYP because of positive revies from Tao Bums I respected (that was years ago). Upon reading up, I was very very impressed that Yogani seemed to have studied just about every type of Yoga available in the West and synthesized it all together into one system, and that he was openly talking about stuff that so many shied away from (kundalini, crown overload issues, the need for both meditation and energy cultivation, khecari mudra, vajroli mudra).

 

So it is very interesting to me to see these criticisms coming out now. I am particularly grateful for Seeker of the Self's review, because it is very rationally presented and does not have heavy feelings of bitterness and resentment attached to it, which generally turn me off to what a person is saying. I am also grateful to Tibetan Ice for pointing out good sources for alternative meditation practices that do not succumb to the same criticisms as AYP DM.

 

It seems that he's very sucessfully stifled all the feedback with which he disagrees for years because he seems to believe that he's on some holy mission to save the world - exactly like Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - founder of TM

[Jeff]

 

 

The Boy Blunder has struck again! ROLF!!!

 

I'm happy to meet anyone in Madrid, Paris or London - send another of yogani's henchpersons to verify.

 

And the invitation's open to anyone who's interested enough to turn-up. You don't need to be a henchperson (unless you want to be) LMAO!!!

 

 

Your responses are so silly and ridiculous there is no point in further discussion. Have fun with your vendetta.

[gatito]

Your responses are so silly and ridiculous there is no point in further discussion. Have fun with your vendetta.

 

Thanks Jeff

 

Bye

 

[gatito]

Wishing you the best on yor Path

 

Have a good weekend

 

Remember; the guru is in you

 

[gatito]

Just remember: -

 

Don't hire Jeff as your PR man

[gatito]

Sorry

 

I meant to say "Don't hire Jeff as your PR guru"

 

[gatito]

He can be a bit of a pain in the .....PR

[gatito]

Obviously, you would have a banning notice from Yogani. He would do the honorable thing and explain his actions, even if his disagreed with you.

 

Actually, he didn't do the honourable thing at all.

 

yogani went behind my back and slagged me off to the moderators and then absolutely refused to explain his actions or to discuss the situation because he was "too busy" (writing books and saving the world presumably)

 

I've got that in writing as well - just in case anyone else doubts my word and would like to meet me in person to inspect the documents

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I was initially turned on to AYP because of positive reviews from Tao Bums I respected (that was years ago). Upon reading up, I was very very impressed that Yogani seemed to have studied just about every type of Yoga available in the West...

 

the need for both meditation and energy cultivation, how other yoga practices could serve as prerequisites to follow the direct path of self inquiry)...

 

Hi, Creation. I also think it's good Yogani tried to touch on everything, although the issue there is that all of it is a bit watered down.

 

Certainly Yogani's take on the 8 limbs of raja yoga is much lighter than the proper discipline laid out by Patanjali - especially weak (at best almost useless) in the last 3 limbs and samyama!

 

However, I completely agree with AYP when it comes to not demanding absolute mastery of yama and niyama before starting meditation. Beginning with the mind and spreading out in the other limbs from there makes more sense to me than trying to enforce ethical conduct through will, BEFORE getting to the actual roots of behaviour in meditation. You'd be over 50 before being 'ready' to meditate! Another big strength of AYP theory is that it doesn't over-emphasize prana, or promote obsession with the chakras as much as some systems. And it's great that it points out openly that self-enquiry before a good foundation of development can end up as a mind-game.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Seeker of the Self

[Seeker of Wisdom]

One of the more disturbing things I've noticed is how AYP gives itself weird escape hatches for any claim that the practices are flawed.

 

For example, Etherfish says:

Overload is from progressing too fast. There is not a problem with the practices.

 

So any issue can always be blamed on the practitioner going too fast, and the practices themselves are shielded from criticism. This is like a car company whose cars keep getting involved in accidents saying, 'accidents are always due to bad drivers, our cars are perfect.' Even the best driver will have an accident if his car has a bomb in it!

 

 

And Yogani says:

There was a time when the spiritual air was thick, there were few tools available, and little possibility to make significant spiritual strides in a single lifetime. Now the tools are plentiful, the spiritual air is clearing for much quicker openings, and the striding must be measured. The ride is much faster and a lot can be accomplished in one lifetime, especially for those who sense the opportunity, step up, and do what is necessary.

 

It is the same for everyone, whether practicing in a tradition, a non-traditional teaching (like AYP), or no structured teaching at all (where we are often seeing quick bhakti-only-driven awakenings). What we all have in common is that we are more spiritually susceptible, less practice will often be more, and the need for self-pacing and grounding has increased.

 

The fact that teachings are more accessible in the West now has no relevance to the effectiveness of the practices themselves. I don't understand what Yogani is basing this crap on. How are practices done in 2012AD more powerful than the same practices would have been if done back in 2012BC?

 

But people like the idea of a new golden spiritual age, so if they're already on the Yogani train it's easy for them to ignore their intellect one more time and accept this new-agey nonsense. Then if people accept this, they can brush off constant overloads seen among long-term AYP'ers as a universal thing that all seekers are going through, rather than put the blame on the practices themselves.

 

Nobody at AYP will actually look around other spiritual communities and see there are 20x more problems at AYP than most other places, because they have escape hatches to use:

• That anything that happens in DM is always part of the process - so even unconsciousness is progress!
  
• That there is no need to think - that's over-analysis.
  
• That anyone who questions AYP has a problem - never AYP itself.
  

Nice ideas they're attached to:

• That it's as simple as 'inner silence' - any quietish state of mind is experience of the Self.
  
• That no disciplined effort is needed.
  
• That we're advancing unusually fast from being alive in this time.
  

And harsh realities to face if leaving AYP:

• That they have wasted time and maybe money.
  

Even if the AYP practices themselves weren't flawed, mind-traps (whether Yogani made them deliberately or not) would be a cause for concern.

 

And as the AYP practices are at best dead-ends leading only to foundational calm, at worst seriously harmful; these are keeping people in AYP until they either wake up or get kundalini syndrome. Simple as.

[jijaji]

Well alrighty then...Glad to see some people speaking out!

 

where do I start....

 

Ok the 'I Am' mantra...

 

seriously, it's almost laughable, westerners will fall for anything

 

And Yoganis explanation and understanding of Bhakti is absolute trash bar none! That alone is enough to abandon him and his stupid 'Watered down for Dummies' yoga system.

 

truth be told; That Yoganinibabayaba fellow, has put some strange spin on things that he doesn't seem to understand as much as his audience thinks...in the first place...

 

(good to see you T.I)

 

and Merry Christmas to All..!

 

go figure

 

Edited December 15, 2012 by jijaji

[Tibetan_Ice]

Well alrighty then...Glad to see some people speaking out!

 

where do I start....

 

Ok the 'I Am' mantra...

 

seriously, it's almost laughable, westerners will fall for anything

 

And Yoganis explanation and understanding of Bhakti is absolute trash bar none! That alone is enough to abandon him and his stupid 'Watered down for Dummies' yoga system.

 

truth be told; That Yoganinibabayaba fellow, has put some strange spin on things that he doesn't seem to understand as much as his audience thinks...in the first place...

 

(good to see you T.I)

 

and Merry Christmas to All..!

 

go figure

 

 

Jijaji ! How are you? Long time no see!

 

Yes, isn't it nice that some people have the perspicacity to be able to tell that AYP is some kind of scientific experiment full of misinformed customized practices and unwary practitioners who suffer the consequences..

 

Hopefully more people will come forward and spread the word. We can help those who are caught in Yogani's trap and prevent people from making the same mistake that I did, if we keep at it.

 

I hope everything is well with you.

 

TI