First steps

[illyria]

I'm trying to figure out how to proceed on this path I've found myself on. I would like to continue my pursuit of truth. It seems like so many of you have particular things you practice every day, books you read, classes you take, and all sorts of things.

 

I know so little. I have my Tao te Ching book, and my dabblings in the Microcosmic Orbit (you can read more about it in my intro thread). I try to meditate sometimes, but my body feels so heavy and so loud and my mind is constantly drifting.

 

My interests are centered around finding truths, connection, healing, awareness. I am not particularly interested in any special 'powers' or immortality (I've seen that come up around here).

 

What are some good beginner first steps? What did you start doing in the very beginning if your spiritual journey?

[Thunder_Gooch]

The first step should always be to define your goal.

 

The second step should be to find teachers that have accomplished your goal, and learn from them.

 

The third step should be to ignore the advice and teachings of everyone else who hasn't accomplished your goal.

 

 

[Aetherous]

My interests are centered around finding truths, connection, healing, awareness.

 

Check out the first book in my signature below. The practices help to clear the mind, so that it's easier to find truth...connects you with the beauty of the world...heals the mind which heals the body as a byproduct...develops awareness.

 

That is one way.

[Protector]

Read the prune thread, it's prunetastic

[Mr. T]

hey illyria,

 

wading into this taoism stuff can be overwhelming. here are sme of the basic steps that i took when i started...

 

1. bought a decent translation of the ttc. what makes it decent? i don't know, people argue about that all the time. hopefully you have found one by now.

 

2. there is another book i got (the name escapes me, i'll try to edit it in later) that broke down the history of taoist practices in ancient china and modern day. that really helped me to understand some of the history and terms that are thrown around. i couple this with internet searching as well into the history and different practices that exist today.

 

**caution- take what you read as only gerenal information and not true fact!!!!!

 

3. looked for some time before finding a teacher. i was fortunate to find a group of folks who, i feel, practice what taoism means to me. they are accessible through the web, and if you are interested in a free learning experience you can let me know and we can email. i don't want to be percieved as advertising or prosteletizing here...

 

4. practice...

 

 

good luck!

[thelerner]

So many people, so many directions . Yet it begins with a practice of sitting quietly..letting thoughts come and go with no attachment.

 

I'll throw in the my favorite book du year, 'Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond-A Meditators Handbook' by Ajahn Brahm. You can find about two dozen lectures/dharma talks of his on DIYDharma.org. Its actually loaded with great lectures from reknown teachers. A real treasure chest site, listen to a few and see what and who connects.

Edited December 3, 2012 by thelerner

[Isimsiz Biri]

Dear Illyria,

 

My humble advice is to stay away from Mantak Chia and Steven Yudelove type teachings, to protect your physical and mental health. There are so many person, also in this forum, practicing Micro Cosmic Orbit (MCO) meditation from the books. This is risky business and MCO can not be practiced from the books. This is my opinion, please nobody attack me.

[Celestial]

Mantak Chia is fine, but he has so much information out there that it's hard to figure out where to start. Inner smile technique is fantastic, and yet it's nothing new. Six healing songs are also amazing, again it's nothing new. If you skip all of this and jump right into Nei Kung/Bone Marrow/Tendon washing techniques, and micro/macrocosmic orbiting you're an idiot. Not you, Recep -- I'm speaking generally to everyone.

 

My opinion is to first fix your psychological issues (anger towards parents, siblings, society, stress, etc), while simultaneously changing your diet. Get off processed foods and sugar water (soda, energy drinks) and start eating healthy. Drink water.

 

To me these are far more important first steps than picking a spiritual practice.

 

Edit: More importantly don't listen to power-seekers on this forum. Trust me, they don't know jack shit.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Celestial

[Isimsiz Biri]

Mantak Chia is fine, but he has so much information out there that it's hard to figure out where to start. Inner smile technique is fantastic, and yet it's nothing new. Six healing songs are also amazing, again it's nothing new. If you skip all of this and jump right into Nei Kung/Bone Marrow/Tendon washing techniques, and micro/macrocosmic orbiting you're an idiot. Not you, Recep -- I'm speaking generally to everyone.

My opinion is to first fix your psychological issues (anger towards parents, siblings, society, stress, etc), while simultaneously changing your diet. Get off processed foods and sugar water (soda, energy drinks) and start eating healthy. Drink water.

To me these are far more important first steps than picking a spiritual practice.

Edit: More importantly don't listen to power-seekers on this forum. Trust me, they don't know jack shit.

 

Dear Celestial,

 

I have been to Mantak Chia and Steven Yudelove type teachings as everybody else in this forum. Just look and see Mantak Chia now, he looks so old, physically he is not in good condition. Born in 1944, 68 years old now, in his recent videos he look like 80-85 years old.

 

Inner smile and Six Healing Sounds are ok but the rest is... One must be careful. In fact I heard people who got serious kidney problems with that teaching. It is not something read from the book and do it.

[Celestial]

Dear Celestial,

 

I have been to Mantak Chia and Steven Yudelove type teachings as everybody else in this forum. Just look and see Mantak Chia now, he looks so old, physically he is not in good condition. Born in 1944, 68 years old now, in his recent videos he look like 80-85 years old.

 

Inner smile and Six Healing Sounds are ok but the rest is... One must be careful. In fact I heard people who got serious kidney problems with that teaching. It is not something read from the book and do it.

 

I won't sit here and defend someone I don't know personally. I assume based on your judgements you know Mantak Chia well? Looks can be deceiving, although I am sure an educated person such as yourself would know that, right? You do realize that some grandmasters walked with a cane, looked way past 80 years old, yet wielded more power in their pinky finger than you or I have in our entire body, right?

 

I agree with one thing you said: "One must be careful." You're right. In ANY practice, one must be careful. This is not for the weak minded. None of it is. People on this forum are foolish though, and want the quick path to enlightenment/power. Hence, why you see all these people struggle with kundalini awakenings. They weren't ready for it.

 

Before this gets out of hand and you continue with the "I heard this, I heard that." I'm going to say good luck with whatever you practice. I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Celestial

[Isimsiz Biri]

I won't sit here and defend someone I don't know personally. I assume based on your judgements you know Mantak Chia well? Looks can be deceiving, although I am sure an educated person such as yourself would know that, right? You do realize that some grandmasters walked with a cane, looked way past 80, yet wielded more power in their pinky finger than you or I have in our entire body, right?

You have watched too many martial arts movies. You are right, there were such masters, one example is Morihei Ueshiba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihei_Ueshiba), O Sensei of Aikido, but definitely, Mantak Chia is not in that category. Besides, O Sensei did not have argument like Mantak Chia, Mantak's claim is that one can gain real physical longevity with his teachings and be very healty in 70s, 80s, and he himself proved the opposite.

 

I agree with one thing you said: "One must be careful." You're right. In ANY practice, one must be careful. This is not for the weak minded. None of it is. People on this forum are foolish though, and want the quick path to enlightenment/power. Hence, why you see all these people struggle with kundalini awakenings. They weren't ready for it.

Yes people must be careful. But this does not make the ethical responsibility of these half masters disappear. They are getting money and making people sick. This is disgusting. Especially all these kundalini stuff.

 

Before this gets out of hand and you continue with the "I heard this, I heard that." I'm going to say good luck with whatever you practice.

Be sure that I am telling the truth when I say that I heard something. And be careful, I did not say "I know it". I said "I heard it". There are Himalayas between the two. Nothing will be out of control if nobody insults me or tell that my post is nonsense without giving any explanation. We had discussed with More Pie Guy a subject about Lei Shan Dao like two civilized persons. So it is quite possible to have a discussion instead of a fight.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Recep Ivedik

[illyria]

Thanks for the responses so far everyone =)

 

 

The first step should always be to define your goal.

 

The second step should be to find teachers that have accomplished your goal, and learn from them.

 

The third step should be to ignore the advice and teachings of everyone else who hasn't accomplished your goal.

I don't really have very defined goals or milestones, just generalities. I dunno. I feel like specific set goals are too much a product of the mind. I think I would like things to flow more naturally of their own accord. Does that make sense? I would like to find teachers, I know none in my area..

 

Check out the first book in my signature below. The practices help to clear the mind, so that it's easier to find truth...connects you with the beauty of the world...heals the mind which heals the body as a byproduct...develops awareness.

 

That is one way.

The book looks interesting and has a lot of good reviews. I added it to my wishlist and when budgets allows I'll pick it up =)

 

So many people, so many directions . Yet it begins with a practice of sitting quietly..letting thoughts come and go with no attachment.

 

I'll throw in the my favorite book du year, 'Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond-A Meditators Handbook' by Ajahn Brahm. You can find about two dozen lectures/dharma talks of his on DIYDharma.org. Its actually loaded with great lectures from reknown teachers. A real treasure chest site, listen to a few and see what and who connects.

That site has a lot of information on meditation! I would like to better quiet my mind. It's always so busy, even when I first wake up it's going going going. Lately I've noticed I've been waking up with music stuck in my head and it's hard to shake.

 

Dear Illyria,

 

My humble advice is to stay away from Mantak Chia and Steven Yudelove type teachings, to protect your physical and mental health. There are so many person, also in this forum, practicing Micro Cosmic Orbit (MCO) meditation from the books. This is risky business and MCO can not be practiced from the books. This is my opinion, please nobody attack me.

Those names aren't familiar to me. I haven't really tried the MCO recently since it became uncomfortable to me. I would like to resume it at some point, though.

 

Mantak Chia is fine, but he has so much information out there that it's hard to figure out where to start. Inner smile technique is fantastic, and yet it's nothing new. Six healing songs are also amazing, again it's nothing new. If you skip all of this and jump right into Nei Kung/Bone Marrow/Tendon washing techniques, and micro/macrocosmic orbiting you're an idiot. Not you, Recep -- I'm speaking generally to everyone.

 

My opinion is to first fix your psychological issues (anger towards parents, siblings, society, stress, etc), while simultaneously changing your diet. Get off processed foods and sugar water (soda, energy drinks) and start eating healthy. Drink water.

 

To me these are far more important first steps than picking a spiritual practice.

 

Edit: More importantly don't listen to power-seekers on this forum. Trust me, they don't know jack shit.

 

I actually eat a very clean diet -- no processed foods, low sugar (only occasional honey in my tea, the rest comes from fruit), no grains except for rice perhaps once a week. It works very well for me.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't really have very defined goals or milestones, just generalities. I dunno. I feel like specific set goals are too much a product of the mind. I think I would like things to flow more naturally of their own accord. Does that make sense? I would like to find teachers, I know none in my area..

 

 

I don't think you'll find any teachers in your area, most likely you'll have to learn from books and dvds or travel to them.

 

 

My advice is spend some time figuring out what it is you want from your practice, otherwise you'll just be a spiritual impulse shopper for the rest of your life.

 

 

Let me quote you something I think you might like from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

 

 

 

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?

 

The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to

 

Alice: I don't much care where.

 

The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

 

Alice: …so long as I get somewhere.

 

The Cat: Oh, you're sure to do that, if only you walk long enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

 

Charles Lutwidge Dodgson aka Lewis Carroll

 

 

 

 

 

"What are you doing?

 

Why are you doing it?

 

Where is this going?

 

If you know, you’ll succeed.

 

If you don’t, you won’t.

 

That’s not just pretty talk, that’s the law."

 

 

Jed McKenna - Spiritual Enlightenment The Damnedest Thing

Edited December 3, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[joeblast]

I'm trying to figure out how to proceed on this path I've found myself on. I would like to continue my pursuit of truth. It seems like so many of you have particular things you practice every day, books you read, classes you take, and all sorts of things.

 

I know so little. I have my Tao te Ching book, and my dabblings in the Microcosmic Orbit (you can read more about it in my intro thread). I try to meditate sometimes, but my body feels so heavy and so loud and my mind is constantly drifting.

 

My interests are centered around finding truths, connection, healing, awareness. I am not particularly interested in any special 'powers' or immortality (I've seen that come up around here).

 

What are some good beginner first steps? What did you start doing in the very beginning if your spiritual journey?

The first thing you want to learn are fundamentals. Before generating an abundance of energy, condition the vessel. Learn breathwork and attenuate the body's signals; lower the noise floor and more signals become apparent.

[Stosh]

It works very well for me.

 

Thats ! where your best direction is going to come from.

You can try any advice from anywhere that seems good and give it a go

but ,doesnt it seem wise -to just pay very close attention to what the results actually are ?

does the approach seem to lead you to being better off ? if not then you may want to

consider the reverse.

In my opinion the TTC was written as a sort of manual in reverse of what is ordinarily the norm

thus the intent was to give solid reason to consider that the paradigms which folks go by, may not be

a good reliable path of action.

This advice may not sound revolutionary - to follow the paradigms that bring you into a peaceful happy accord with the world ,

and it may seem like a no-brainer that everyone already tries to follow,,, and I would agree.

But I think most folks fail quite a lot at it ,because they have preconceptions which they dont ever challenge

They try to preserve the self image , the self-stereotype , that they ingrained unconsciously as kids and arbitrarily reinforced as adults.

Im not pointing at any radical metamorphosis where beams of light drop out of the sky music play and the wholle world shimmers into a new reality for you. Just a slow progression towrd fulfilling yourself and finding wellbeing.

[ShenLung]

First three things: breath, balance, awareness.

The best thing to still an unquiet mind is good, hard excercise. Pick the part of TTC you want to meditate on, mark the page, then begin. a good routine may look something like this:

run in place 20 seconds, 5 push-ups. Run in place 20 seconds, 5 crunches. Jumping jacks 20 seconds, 5 squats.

shake your arms and legs loose for several seconds each limb, do neck rotations, then walk about in a circle at least 20 steps, focus on breathing. Adjust this as needed according to your level of physical fitness, of course.

Settle down in a nice comfy sisa or lotus position, and calmly breath while meditating on the part of the text that you selected.

Increase your excercise as time goes by ... it is so easy to focus on nothing and simply breath when you are exhausted!

[raimonio]

I would also advice you to just read alot of books, roam the forums, try to get a view of different practices and views. Choose what feels best for you and then start testing the different techniques that interest you. On one hand you should educate yourself on the subject as much as possible, but on the other you need to get your feet wet.

 

If there is nothing at your location then you must prepare yourself for a trip at some point. Many techniques you can learn from a DVD and it might be a good plan to start out that way, test the different techniques and see what fits you the best.

 

Just get on the train and let it take you where ever. But I must say that after years you might find yourself to be in a place where you never thought of being. Like for me it was Buddhism all the way, but I turned out Daoist.

 

Spring Forest Qigong comes to mind if thinking about a safe system that can be learned on DVD and has a good hype surrounding it. Then ofcourse I must recommend my own practice Stillness-Movement, but with that a live transmission is recommended. I don't know many books on Daoism, but can recommend Anthony De Mello's "Awareness" which is about awareness and all the books of the Dalai Lama. The truth is, that the greatest source of knowledge is found among the bums of the Dao, so make this place your home.

 

Wonder if Mr. T has figured out the name of the book he was talking about, would like to read it aswell

[Mr. T]

howdy!

 

actually, i forgot about that. but i did happen to dig the book out. it is

 

taoism: an essential guide, by eva wong.

 

that was a great book for me at the time i read it, and it really helped to put some of the historical context behind all the confusing names and chinese historical time periods. check it out!

 

later...

 

edited to say: when i just googled to make sure it is still in print, it appears there is a new edition (?), because it says published 2011, but i read it around 08, so i'm not sure...but it is still available

Edited December 12, 2012 by Mr. T

[thelerner]

When you have a busy head finding emptiness is hard. You might want to start your journey with mantra style meditation that quiets the mind while keeping it busy, or with guided meditation which also gives the mind a direction that can lead to great silence. It's a big internet there are many choices out there. A huge source is Itunes podcasts which are free and downloadable. On a thread there was just another source for Ajahn Brahm's works plus a whole load of guided meditations.

 

Find something connects to you. Once you're comfortable find something a style that takes you a little out of your comfort zone .

Edited December 13, 2012 by thelerner

[XieJia]

pay extra attentions to your body, your mind, your feelings, your thoughts in throughout the day.

whether while working, stressing, travelling, walking, eating, relaxing, before going to sleep or anything you do.

 

when you are more aware of the connections and influence between the surroundings and yourself;

and yourself and the surroundings, any practices will become easier.

 

TTC is a good book to read;

 

how about confirming it with your body and mind?