What do you think you need?

[Imperial]

Please forgive my ignorance, but, in your own opinion, what do you think you need to become an immortal? Without following a specific sect or school, what is important in an immortal? Going way back a few thousand years, there are pioneers that [probably] started of as a martial artist, and eventually found ways to achieve a higher position/realm, and taught those methods for which has been passed down from generations to generations into what we now call sects, schools, or doors. There are numerous of these, while they differ in method, they most likely achieve the same goal.

 

Do you guys think it has something to do with 氣 (ch'i)? Is it the gathering of ch'i and compressing it into the dan t'ian? Is it refining the ch'i? Balance it between Yin and Yang? Converting it all into pure Yang? Is it the opening of channels? Is it converting the jing into shen? A spirit body? Super high energy frequency? How about breathing? Is it meditation? Or is it a martial arts practice? Both Shaolin and Wudang do some sort of martial arts training.

 

I have read somewhere in this forum that said that both Zhang Sanfeng and Bodhidharma reached level 72. What were their similarities? They both studied a form of martial art. They both meditated at some point. How about walking? I'm sure they walked for numerous days. Zhang Sanfeng traveled around China. Bodhidharma traveled from India to China. Do you think walking plays a part to achieve something higher?

 

In short, what do you think is the basic core essence of an Immortal?

Edited December 2, 2012 by Imperial

[Protector]

You need enough power to decide when you want to die

 

AND DATS A LOT OF POWAH you basically need to be able to control everything about your life. Think shooting lightning out of your eyeballs would be awesome? Paying the rent is awesome, and even better, OWNING A HOUSE ON YOUR OWN LAND!!! BUT SCREW THAT, A COUNTRY, AND THEN LATER, THE WOOOOOORLD!!!

 

Now then, to pay rent you need MONEY

There are all sorts of moneys out there like Dollars, Rubels, Chi AND MUCH MUCH MOOOOOOOOORE

Some of them hippie people don't like thinking of chi as money, but it works exactly like that. You collect it and then pay it to do things. Even when you do Mo Pai things and gather power it doesn't mean you can zap things whenever you want to, the thing runs out.

Collection AAAAALL THE MONEYS in your body is called the body of light, I kinda like that one and so I go for epic horse stance

But just having a light body doesn't mean you got everything covered until you tapped into some of that shen stuff, but that should be easy at that level and I've been told You'll understand everything once you're there

For now I just know that shen is the world's money reserve

[Ish]

Realistically you need a master. Even those with great masters who practice hard don't necessarily achieve the highest goal.

In the mean time build your foundation, cultivate virtue and go extremely deep in meditation practice.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

*Just the opinion of a beginner.*

 

IMHO, chi and all that stuff is an auxiliary. Mind and chi are linked, so cultivate jing/chi/shen and you'll get a great foundation for really high attainment. But ultimately, it's the mind that needs to stop clinging. It's the mind that develops virtue and wisdom. It's the mind that realises its true nature.

 

Chi is an object. Turn the subject (awareness) within and you can realise That beneath subject and objects.

 

Really, the key thing is meditation I think. Calm the coarse mental processes, clear the crap from the subconscious, refine the buddhi, progress through samadhi, go beyond to pure consciousness. And don't stop there. Overturn pure consciousness to face the Self.

[spiraltao]

I read that when or if one reaches a pure yang state, one will not cast a shadow.

 

I anxiously await for this thread to unfold.

 

What about tegli? (spelling may be wrong, where the the practitioner creates an embryo, is this embryo immortal?)

 

Don't mean to derail the thread, just thought this would be a good place to ask.

 

I have read the stories of sages found with holes in their head after death to let the spirit out, also read it feels like an ax splits the head.

[Dainin]

Virtue.

[zerostao]

Virtue.

bingo

[Eskrimador]

You need die, then you are imortal again.

Only mortal here, that not so long so must enjoy and be very happy.

You happy?

[Eskrimador]

Virtue.

 

Virtue no fun.

Old people can have some virtue when they too old for fun.

[zerostao]

to have virtue is not to neglect enjoyment. it is kinda to embrace enjoyment.

if we look at the tao te ching as a simple and often misunderstood title

but literally it is saying that the way to power is thru virtue.

accumulate virtue in this life and then accumulate more.

and have a positive attitude about it and have some fun.

[Eskrimador]

Daodejing says to be like water.

No virtue in water, just water.

[zerostao]

good point eskrimador,

water can seem effortless and it is natural in its naturalness.

virtue or Te can be looked at in this way.

water is one of the very basics needed for life, a healthy and happy life.

virtue is the same as water in this regard.

Te/virtue is to be natural and effortless in ones actions and inactions,

to do what is naturally appropiate in a given circumstance.

here is an excellent thread started by rene;

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19499-laozis-de/

[Shagrath]

Your Ego has to die in order for you to become immortal.

 

Read I AM THAT from Nisargadatta Maharaj and SIDDHARTHA from Hermann Hesse.

[Eskrimador]

Not many get immortality that way mr shagrath evryone got ego an id.

Ego die you dead.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Eskrimador

[Thunder_Gooch]

Your Ego has to die in order for you to become immortal.

 

Read I AM THAT from Nisargadatta Maharaj and SIDDHARTHA from Hermann Hesse.

 

Your ego has to die to become enlightened, enlightenment is not equal to immortality or liberation from rebirth.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Depends on the level of Enlightenment you're talking about.

 

To be a Buddha (hence fully enlightened one), you are immortal.

 

Enlightenment as I understand it maintaining a state of nondual awareness till your death. It has nothing to do with ending rebirth, or immortality. You could live in a state of nonduality, and you'll still die like a dog and be reborn like the rest of us.

 

I think perhaps it might be possible to reach a state of Taoist immortality and become an immortal spirit, perhaps it would also be possible to retain a non-dual state of awareness too, but the two have nothing to do with one another. You can be just one without the other.

[thelerner]

Hmmnn, the teaching and perhaps empowerment of a master. I'd venture you also have to leave civilization. A hermitage where you concentrate and refine 24/7 for a long period.

[Thunder_Gooch]

One is a mental realization, the other is a physical transformation.

 

It's like asking if bench pressing 400lbs means you have a PhD. in physics.

 

I am sure you could be both, but being one has nothing to do with the other.

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't it go hand in hand though? If you start to practice cultivation, you open up all of the channels and chakras, fill up your dan tian. Doing that you should be reaching enlightenment. I remember there were some stages as stated on Meditation Expert.

 

The part what you're saying is the stage of Non-Ego as stated by William Brodi. Source: http://www.meditatio...of-jing-to-chi/

 

There's enlightenment further than that stage.

You can cultivate to the point that you have Rainbow Bodies. Thus you'll be immortal because you can come back and forth to here. Fully enlightened is a different story.

 

 

 

I don't really think so. You're still need to have some merit too. So interaction with civilization is good. Can you become a hermit? Yes. If you know how to control your mind, you may be able to stay in civilization and not be affected. Also, you could take retreats then come back and forth.

Edited December 2, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[adept]

I'm trying to find the sutra on the full experience of Enlightenment.

 

Avatamsaka ?

It's probably the closest from a Mahayana Buddhist perspective.

Prepare to give up half your life to read and study it though !

[adept]

From 'The Book Of Balance Of Harmony' by Thomas Cleary:

 

'Ironically, one of the most comprehensive descriptions of Taoism as it is understood in advanced Taoist circles can be found in a Buddhist text, the Avatamsaka Sutra, which is held to contain the totality of all religion'

[Protector]

[Imperial]

As far as I know, becoming a Buddha and entering Nirvana is done while living. If you die having achieved Nirvana, your soul can enter Parinirvana which escapes the cycle of rebirth.

 

By the way, how about just practicing the basics? Nothing complex. Just like simple ch'i gather, Yang conversion, refining, qigong, taiji, and breathing? Then once you have full control and understanding, the path will become open to you.

 

As for opening all channels, won't microcosmic orbit meditation be enough?

 

A martial artist can learn the basics, and the simplest techniques, but with enough experience and cleverness, he can defeat one that knows more than him.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Imperial

[Thunder_Gooch]

Which sutra or sources are you stating your information from?

 

Or are you stating from experience?

 

I'm trying to find the sutra on the full experience of Enlightenment. I know that one can become immortal without being a Buddha.

 

There are many many models of enlightenment, the non dual model is probably the most widely accepted model.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Core-Teachings-Buddha-Unusually/dp/1904658407

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB%20Models%20of%20the%20Stages%20of%20Enlightenment;jsessionid=615DAB3DF5AAE5F0552B9253D530D9DE?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB%20Models%20of%20the%20Stages%20of%20Enlightenment

[Shagrath]

There are many many models of enlightenment, the non dual model is probably the most widely accepted model.

 

The models of enlightenment? There is only one enlightenment. Even nirvana is not enlightenment, it is much lower state.

[Aetherous]

Moar practice...which includes virtue and calming the heart and mind, as basics.