enough with emptiness and dreams. we need new models.

[Birch]

No, you still didn't get my concept.

 

AI (artificial intelligence) is us. The world is virtual world. Our body is virtual body. Our mind is virtual mind. Us is virtual.

 

There isn't any need of "hardwired" as you've seen in the movie of Matrix. That idea is like to feed food to a hungry child in a book you're reading.

 

No, this time I got it:-) But what I'm saying is as long as the experience of it does not include having a chip the size of a grain of rice planted under my skin in order to send me instructions I'm good:-) Now if they start doing that, I will not wish to play any more.

[Fū Yue]

What's the difference between virtual and real? What's the difference between 'you're sort of tying your shoe' and 'you're really tying your shoe'?

 

The problem with your model is that it's still emptiness. You're not progressing anywhere, because what you're saying is exactly the same. We were 'created' by the real humans? And who created the 'real humans'? If nobody created the 'real humans', then they just sprung up from nowhere, or were always there. If they sprung up from nowhere uncreated, then they have the same nature as the uncreated.

 

We don't make things, we just rearrange what was already there, and if the 'real humans' are already there, then the real humans didn't create anything, they just rearranged what was already there, and what was already there? If there was nothing there in the first place aside from them, they didn't do anything and it was always like this, we are inside of their bodies as atoms within atoms within atoms and so on...

 

If the 'real' humans have the ability to make something from nothing, then it stands to reason that something before them could have created them out of nothing. And so on, ad infinitum, and you just end up with 'emptiness' all over again. Because then that means the 'real' humans were only virtual approximations of the 'really real' humans and the 'this time we are seriously real' humans made them, and... in the end, no beginning and no end can be seen.

 

It's just as valid to say that this entire world is on a leaf blowing in the wind by a river.

[hydrogen]

 

The problem with your model is that it's still emptiness. You're not progressing anywhere, because what you're saying is exactly the same. We were 'created' by the real humans? And who created the 'real humans'? If nobody created the 'real humans', then they just sprung up from nowhere, or were always there. If they sprung up from nowhere uncreated, then they have the same nature as the uncreated.

 

 

I never said the "emptiness" wasn't correct.

 

I think we need a new model which is easier to understand and relate to the new generation. I think the computer similation model is a lot easier to understand than "emptiness".

 

 

"And who created the 'real humans'?"

They came from a single cell after billion years of evolution. They gave us some many clues to figure that out. The "emptiness" folk just ignore the obvious evidence.

 

 

 

"It's just as valid to say that this entire world is on a leaf blowing in the wind by a river."

 

Now, you're strenching to somewhere I don't think we should go.

[Marblehead]

Mr MH, why didn't you like the post? I didn't like it much either. The reason for that is I feel there's already some amount of truth to the idea that humans have already crossed over into a very virtual way of being and conducting their lives. That someone would just go ahead and say that's the way things are anyway, well I guess I can't really blame them. Especially if they were born into the world with all this virtual stuff already here.

 

This one gave me a bit of nausea. But so did the idea that I wasn't 'reified' when I first heard it (had to pronounce the r-word for this one). Now as long as these proponents of AI everywhere don't end up making it mandatory to have it 'hardwired' into our bodies (and I don't care if it's only the size of a grain of rice). I couldn't give a crap. Yes, even with my 'non-body'.

 

However, if the superstring mutliverse dudes are correct, then all I have to do is jump dimensions where none of this shit is going down:-)

 

I guess that the best why for me to respond would be to say that I think that that kind of thinking can easily lead to apathy and nihilism. We've gotta' give a shit. We gotta' care. Any time we consider human life less than what it truely is there will be the growth for the disregard and disrespect for human life. That can never be good.

 

We all are special and unique - just as special and unique as each of the flowers growing in my gardens. And we all are just as real as any other Manifest object in the universe. All manifest objects have been reified by the processes of the universe (tzujan), the processes of Tao. I think I can never say this often enough. Reality is a wonderful thing. We all should try living in it and enjoying what has been offered us.

[Marblehead]

No, you still didn't get my concept.

 

AI (artificial intelligence) is us. The world is virtual world. Our body is virtual body. Our mind is virtual mind. Us is virtual.

I must totally disagree with this. We are reality in a real universe. Yes, there is such a thing as AI. But it is not us. It is we who build these machines (computers) that have this ability.

 

Let us not belittle what the human animal is. A truely unique being.

[Marblehead]

"And who created the 'real humans'?"

Evolution is a wonderful concept to understand. It answers so many important questions.

 

 

Regarding emptiness: When I leave this board I go back to editting my graphics collection. The album I am using to display the graphics will sometimes show an empty box where a graphics should be. So I check, it's not an empty box but it is in a format (dimension) that I, and the album program, is unable to see. The graphics is really there. So I correct the file format and, WoW!, a miracle!!!, there's the graphics.

 

Emptiness exists only outside the bounds of the universe and anything outside the bounds of the universe cannot be spoken of.

[三江源]

.

Edited October 27, 2015 by 三江源

[Birch]

I guess that the best why for me to respond would be to say that I think that that kind of thinking can easily lead to apathy and nihilism. We've gotta' give a shit. We gotta' care. Any time we consider human life less than what it truely is there will be the growth for the disregard and disrespect for human life. That can never be good.

 

We all are special and unique - just as special and unique as each of the flowers growing in my gardens. And we all are just as real as any other Manifest object in the universe. All manifest objects have been reified by the processes of the universe (tzujan), the processes of Tao. I think I can never say this often enough. Reality is a wonderful thing. We all should try living in it and enjoying what has been offered us.

 

I see what you mean. I hadn't thought of it that way. I mean I'm relatively apathetic already. I know I shouldn't be but I'm up against some heavy 'prevailing winds' as they say.

[三江源]

.

Edited October 27, 2015 by 三江源

[deci belle]

The one who gave birth to me, fed me with her milk is my mother. The one who brought me up and taught me is my father. The one who grew up with me is my brother. The one I changed diaper and held in my arm at night is my daughter. The one who cheers me up when I'm down is my frirend. The ones who grow food, build houses, clean the road and serve food in the restaurants are my people. This is my earth. This is my world.

 

I know exactly who I am. I know my mom, dad. brother, daughters, friends and people. Nobody, not even God, can change my mind.

 

Do you know who you are?

 

You do not know who you are. You will continue to be ignorant of your nature until you drop your need to cling to a conditional identity. Your pride in personality is useless for seeing your nature. I already see that you do not know, obviously you are incapable of seeing that seeing is even possible. Finding out who you were before your parents were born has nothing to do with who they are to you, much less what you are to you—this is in terms of your psychologically-selfish self-reflective relationship with reality.

 

Again I suggest you cease calling on reality to meet your feeble, dim, intellectually oriented view of who you are and either muster the will to enlightenment or continue to pretend your mind is the equal of creation. Only those who see their nature have any part in enlightening evolution. Freeing themselves from the matrix of yin and yang is releasing inconceivable potential (that's not a lot— it's just inconceivable), enabling them to meet creation with potential and so operate freely outside of creation.

 

Just because you are completely ignorant of the benefit of enlightening being doesn't change the fact.

 

If you are happy as a clam going along with creation, that's fine. As if you have a choice…

 

You do.❤

[thelerner]

Seems more Tron then Matrix, and it downgrades God into computer nerd. While I disagree with the premise because its based more on a movie themes then factual data, I'm willing to go with it.

 

So..what are the benefits of being an AI character in an AI world?

Edited December 4, 2012 by thelerner

[Marblehead]

I see what you mean. I hadn't thought of it that way. I mean I'm relatively apathetic already. I know I shouldn't be but I'm up against some heavy 'prevailing winds' as they say.

Yes, I hear you. All I can do is wish you the best, whatever that is.

[Marblehead]

I think this is what et thoughts is saying, also.

Hehehe. Sometimes it is so hard to grasp what ET is talking about. He and I do always disagree but we do more often than I would like.

[hydrogen]

If you are happy as a clam going along with creation, that's fine. As if you have a choice…

 

 

I choose to be human, maybe a human in spiritual path, But human first.

[hydrogen]

So..what are the benefits of being an AI character in an AI world?

 

I don't know the benefits.

 

But all the miracles are possible: walk on water, survive without food, visit past and future, appear different places at same time, change a fishbone back to live fish. It's just a simple matter of modifying your location/time or property tag.

 

Get the decrypted key is the hard part.

 

Actually the AI is the first crude model. The more realistic model is software and hardware in one. We're not pure AI (software). We're the hardware that the software run on as well.

 

Each one of us is exactly the duplication of the whole system. Each one of us is complete and a part of the whole at same time. It's a distributed network system.

 

We're the world (can't believe Michael is right . Without us, the universe won't exist. We're powering the whole universe. The whole universe is runing on us. Since we live on earth. The earth IS the center of the universe (can't belive the bible is right after all .

 

We currently don't have the exact the same technology yet. Since the "real human" developed it from scratch. We just need reverse engineer it to get the design. It should be easier for us. It's just a matter of time.

Edited December 4, 2012 by hydrogen

[oildrops]

Intellectualizing is fun, and we'll never tire of the infinite (or otherwise, who cares we'll never get close) possibilities. Can we reduce everything to Yes/No? 1/0? Or how about "Maybe". I think the beauty of this reality is that we can believe anything we want, and it might not change anything, or it could instantly change everything and we will never know it. I always thought the point was to let go of the concepts and live in the moment.

 

The benefit of a widely accepted model of interdependence is how well we treat each-other and how much love we are willing to express without the paranoia that the ones you love are computer robots. We are a flesh and blood organism, and our world will always be a mystery, celebrate!

[Marblehead]

I always thought the point was to let go of the concepts and live in the moment.

Based on my understanding that is still valid.

[Stosh]

If one day you met the most wise person of all time , who knew the answers to everything ever asked,

A person might ask them if there was a God , or where the universe came from, or if there was 'gold in them thar hills'...

Presumably you get an answer ....from that point there is an implied question sequential to the first ,,,or the question

was useless really -

That second question is " OK, now what do I do ? (about it , knowing what I do now )"

The answer- response to the second question determines the path you would take.

and so before asking 'What do I do now ?' all the question-answer pairs just supply data.

 

The conclusion to 'What do I do now?' once arrived at, allows a person to proceed

and so that is the ultimate question that any person has to answer ,if they are going to control their

destiny with intent.

 

SO I dont think anybody needs new models for living , because the question they need to answer hasnt changed.

There are paths enough already to assist in answering it, they have worked for millions before us.

It changes nothing really to consider the world to be virtual ,or a clockwork, or a dream, or the result of

previous universes bumping into one another ... if It doesnt affect What you will do... and you are just as locked

into the common human experience ( in all its variety ) as everyone else is.

 

Yes its interesting to speculate , and yes you may gain different perspective but Oildrops is on the money, saying that, living in the moment is really where the attention should be at.

[Aaron]

God was human who created us. Human was God who created us.

 

I boldly say I'm the first to come up with this.

 

Now you enlighted ego-maniac tells me it's been done by someone else.

 

Vedanta came up with it 2000 years ago so you're a little late in that regard.

 

oh and the Bible actually says we are made in God's image so nothing original there either. the problem is that you can't see past the concept of humanity. You believe that humanity is the beginning and the end, but it's neither.

 

Aaron

Edited December 5, 2012 by Aaron

[hydrogen]

Vedanta came up with it 2000 years ago so you're a little late in that regard.

 

 

Did they figure out where the original human come from, mate? Did they figure out revolution before Darwin?

 

In the beginning, there was a real universe and a real earth. A single organic cell started to evolve. After billions years of revolution, a race of real human emerged. They developed technology so advanced that they could live forever. Based on current technology, I can speculate that they could make brain like computer and transfter their mind into it, and the biologic body to go with it.

 

For whatever reason, they created a new universe and earth, created "human" like themselves. They also "buried" different type of fossils for us to figure out the origin of human.

 

Eventually the "human" would develop to the same stage that they could live forever and created new universe. I bet they would do the same.

 

I don't know if our creator was the original "human" or the children race of the original "human".

 

Please show me the references that those Vedanta came up with this theory before me.

 

I boldly declare I AM the first.

[Marblehead]

I boldly declare I AM the first.

And may I be the first to suggest that you are climbing up the wrong tree?

[Stosh]

Maybe Im the first to suggest that

CHristianity would make better sense if we were supposed to forgive god for creating us

to live like animals in a zoo and die regardless of what we chose to do ,

but that doesnt make it genius.

[hydrogen]

to live like animals in a zoo and die regardless of what we chose to do ,

 

Where did you get that idea from? Is that your life plan?

[Protector]

BRAVE NEW WORLD

 

[Aaron]

Did they figure out where the original human come from, mate? Did they figure out revolution before Darwin?

 

In the beginning, there was a real universe and a real earth. A single organic cell started to evolve. After billions years of revolution, a race of real human emerged. They developed technology so advanced that they could live forever. Based on current technology, I can speculate that they could make brain like computer and transfter their mind into it, and the biologic body to go with it.

 

For whatever reason, they created a new universe and earth, created "human" like themselves. They also "buried" different type of fossils for us to figure out the origin of human.

 

Eventually the "human" would develop to the same stage that they could live forever and created new universe. I bet they would do the same.

 

I don't know if our creator was the original "human" or the children race of the original "human".

 

Please show me the references that those Vedanta came up with this theory before me.

 

I boldly declare I AM the first.

 

This is the funny thing, scientists will tell you they're not absolutely certain that we evolved from single cell creatures, that it's a hypothesis and theory, but you have been brainwashed by the religion of science into believing it's the absolute truth. You don't even have proof. Humanity is not the beginning of everything, nor will it be there at the end. You are as delusional as any of the people you are bitching about.

 

Aaron

 

edit- Oh yeah, we're not even sure where the original human came from, remember the missing link? Without it, again, it's all hypothesis and theoretical.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Aaron