Creation Posted December 14, 2012 My early difficulty in discussions with them was that I did not realize that none of them can feel any energy or light. I may be wrong but I got the impression that Malcolm believes that prana is just air, nadis and chakras are purely symbolic, and light seen in Togel practice is a purely biological/optical phenomenon, and that anyone who believes otherwise has bought into new age bull****. Which, honestly, was quite shocking to me given his credentials. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) They said if i didn't attend the transmission, there could be obstacles, and based on some previous experiences with ChNNRs restricted books, i believe them! I downloaded some a good while back, and had nightmares until i deleted them from my hard drive. And in the nightmares, beings told me that i was having the nightmares because i was messing with those books! (sorry rinpoche!) Wow, it's good you could communicate with those beings! Can you imagine all the wannabes that download restricted books and don't have the sensitivity to know the problems they are causing themselves? I remember I was about to click on a download of a restricted Dzogchen book out of curiosity, perhaps it was one Norbu Rinpoche's, got a really bad feeling, and decided against it. About WWT, there are pdfs guruyoga_garabdorje_explanation and guruyoga_garabdorje_practice on their site. Are these insufficient explanations of the process? Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 I may be wrong Yeah you are wrong 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted December 14, 2012 The Flight of Garuda is for those with transmission. I'm pretty sure Keith Dowman says that in the introduction. On what page does he say that, exactly? Ti Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted December 14, 2012 Wow, it's good you could communicate with those beings! Can you imagine all the wannabes that download restricted books and don't have the sensitivity to know the problems they are causing themselves? I remember I was about to click on a download of a restricted Dzogchen book out of curiosity, perhaps it was one Norbu Rinpoche's, got a really bad feeling, and decided against it. yes fortunate in the end. it was when my curiosity about dzogchen and norbu really began, so it was a good thing. About WWT, there are pdfs guruyoga_garabdorje_explanation and guruyoga_garabdorje_practice on their site. Are these insufficient explanations of the process? can you link those? im not sure just by the filename, but they sound right, and the Feb 24th transmission is the Garab Dorje anniversary. So probably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 Yeah you are wrong I remember several disparate statements that gave me this impression, but maybe my mind filled in the pieces in an inaccurate way. Jeff, do you know what I am talking about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) can you link those? im not sure just by the filename, but they sound right, and the Feb 24th transmission is the Garab Dorje anniversary. So probably. Who do you recommend contacting to get hooked up to this event? http://www.shangshun...explanation.pdf http://www.shangshun...je_practice.pdf http://www.shangshun...AdzomDrugpa.pdf http://www.shangshun...dmasambhava.pdf Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 On what page does he say that, exactly? Ti page 9: "The Starting Point: Initiation" page 10: "The answer is initiation, initiation by direct introduction to the nature of the mind." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Jeff, do you know what I am talking about? Why are asking Jeff, who is now pissing off Malcolm and everyone on a different forum? LOL You can read this thread: http://www.dharmawhe...php?f=40&t=3979 You are way out in left field. Malcolm, on Esangha, would frequently say statements like 'The sooner people realize Vajrayana is all about working with the body's channels, the better.' Thats a paraphrase from my memory. Edited December 14, 2012 by alwayson 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted December 14, 2012 Who do you recommend contacting to get hooked up to this event? http://www.shangshun...explanation.pdf http://www.shangshun...je_practice.pdf http://www.shangshun...AdzomDrugpa.pdf http://www.shangshun...dmasambhava.pdf Creation, are you in north america? if so, contact Harold, the secretary of Tsegyalgar East... [email protected]. Thats the Massachusetts center. He was super helpful to me, and if you go to http://www.tsegyalgar.org you will be able to find the other centers and small centers worldwide. Those links are from the guruyoga book that i have, and yes thats the section of the book i was referring to! awesome that they are available free. Hope that helps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) You can read this thread: http://www.dharmawhe...php?f=40&t=3979 Malcolm, on Esangha, would frequently say statements like 'The sooner people realize Vajrayana is all about working with the body's channels, the better." So you are way out in left field my friend. Thanks for the link, that is the very threat that gave me the impression I had, but couldn't find the link. There is no prāṇa as a separate entity. This is a huge misconception. There is a prāṇa vāyu i.e. the breath we inhale.... prāṇa is a vāyu i.e. prāṇa vāyu (srog dzin rlung) aka "the life sustaining wind". This comes from our breath and no where else ... This is nothing mysterious. Unfortunately, Buddhists have been unwittingly influenced by new age concepts about channels, cakras and so on. Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) "have been unwittingly influenced by new age concepts about channels, cakras and so on." Malcolm is talking about how New Age concepts are nothing like Indian concepts. And he is right. If you read "Khecharividya of Adinatha", "The Hundred Verses of Goraksa", books by David Gordon White etc., you will see Malcolm is right. Edited December 14, 2012 by alwayson 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 there is no "subtle energy" but that vayu=air, and those who believe otherwise Like I said above, read even Hindu ancient tantric texts. Malcolm is 100% right. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I added a couple more quotes in an edit to show that Malcolm's understanding of prana is very different than that of a practicing energy worker. I can see why Jeff said what he said. Exegesis of ancient texts is not the point here, but how much experience one has in working with energy. Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I added a couple more quotes in an edit to show that Malcolm's understanding of prana is very different than that of a practicing energy worker. I can see why Jeff said what he said. Exegesis of ancient texts is not the point here, but how much experience one has in working with energy. You are the New Age type that is contaminating us all. Even David Gordon White calls 'nadis' "breath channels" on page 14 of "Yoga in Practice." http://books.google.com/books?id=1ii7D-bR0osC&pg=PA14&dq=david+gordon+white+breath+channels+of+yogic+practice+hevajra+tantra&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hpXKUOf6FIWO0QHBuIHABA&ved=0CDQQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=david%20gordon%20white%20breath%20channels%20of%20yogic%20practice%20hevajra%20tantra&f=false Edited December 14, 2012 by alwayson 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Creation, are you in north america? if so, contact Harold, the secretary of Tsegyalgar East... [email protected]. Thats the Massachusetts center. He was super helpful to me, and if you go to http://www.tsegyalgar.org you will be able to find the other centers and small centers worldwide. Those links are from the guruyoga book that i have, and yes thats the section of the book i was referring to! awesome that they are available free. Hope that helps Yes it does! I am indeed in North America. Thanks for the reference, and glad to see you diving into Dzogchen! Great fortune to you in your practice. May all beings benefit. Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted December 14, 2012 Why are asking Jeff, who is now pissing off Malcolm and everyone on a different forum? LOL You can read this thread: http://www.dharmawhe...php?f=40&t=3979 You are way out in left field. Malcolm, on Esangha, would frequently say statements like 'The sooner people realize Vajrayana is all about working with the body's channels, the better.' Thats a paraphrase from my memory. Wow. Reading this thread, I would have to agree with Creation. He does seem to think it is all about gross level human biology. Hard to believe with CNN's books. No wonder there has been so much confusion in my discussions with them. Alwayson - Do you partake in CNN's transmissions? Anything on the energy body? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) You are the New Age type that is contaminating us all. Even David Gordon White calls 'nadis' "breath channels" on page 14 of "Yoga in Practice." http://books.google.... tantra&f=false no response "Creation"? Edited December 14, 2012 by alwayson 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted December 14, 2012 I added a couple more quotes in an edit to show that Malcolm's understanding of prana is very different than that of a practicing energy worker. I can see why Jeff said what he said. Exegesis of ancient texts is not the point here, but how much experience one has in working with energy. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know if this is common with Dzogchen practioners in general? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted December 14, 2012 You are the New Age type that is contaminating us all. Even David Gordon White calls 'nadis' "breath channels" on page 14 of "Yoga in Practice." http://books.google.com/books?id=1ii7D-bR0osC&pg=PA14&dq=david+gordon+white+breath+channels+of+yogic+practice+hevajra+tantra&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hpXKUOf6FIWO0QHBuIHABA&ved=0CDQQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=david%20gordon%20white%20breath%20channels%20of%20yogic%20practice%20hevajra%20tantra&f=false New Age? The winds that come to reside in the heart are the types of energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creation Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Thank you for pointing this out. Do you know if this is common with Dzogchen practioners in general? I don't know. Perhaps it is common with internet going Dzogchen practitioners, given the influence Malcolm has. I suppose the question is, what in Dzogchen practice would give a person reason to think otherwise? Because otherwise it is a matter of faith: "My lama said this", "Some new age book I read said this", "Malcolm said this", "Some scholar said some ancient text said this" etc. Edited December 14, 2012 by Creation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted December 14, 2012 Yes it does! I am indeed in North America. Thanks for the reference, and glad to see you diving into Dzogchen! Great fortune to you in your practice. May all beings benefit. you're welcome creation, thank you for the kind words Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) You are the New Age type that is contaminating us all. Even David Gordon White calls 'nadis' "breath channels" on page 14 of "Yoga in Practice." http://books.google.... tantra&f=false I guess you have no response to this "Creation". By the way, Malcolm has spoken extensively on tactile sensation and felt sensation in the chakras etc. So its not all about holding your breath. Edited December 14, 2012 by alwayson 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted December 14, 2012 I guess you have no response to this. By the way, Malcolm has spoken extensively on tactile sensation and felt sensation in the chakras etc. So its not all about holding your breath. What do you think CNN is talking about in the following quotes? From "Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State" by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu The individual is made up of three aspects: body, voice and mind. ... Through the material dimension of the body we can understand its energy, or the "voice". ... The energy of the individual is closely linked to the external energy, and each can influence the other. ... It is possible to influence the external energy... Such activity is actually the result of having control of one's own energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2012 What do you think CNN is talking about in the following quotes? From "Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State" by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu The individual is made up of three aspects: body, voice and mind. ... Through the material dimension of the body we can understand its energy, or the "voice". ... The energy of the individual is closely linked to the external energy, and each can influence the other. ... It is possible to influence the external energy... Such activity is actually the result of having control of one's own energy. Well thats a translation. Those are not ChNN's words. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
