The Absolute Present

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 12, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Jeff]

 

Now if we focus on the claim ... One who finds no fault with the faulty shares in that understanding...

thats like saying: one who finds no error, with the error, errs !

 

 

Is it? What if one is not looking for or indifferent to the error? (like MH was)

 

Anyways(implied meaning:) ), have a good evening.

 

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 12, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 12, 2012 by et-thoughts

[et-thoughts]

There is no Present in time,...it's impossible. Don't believe it,...prove it. Take the statement as deep as you can,...and you will uncover that all time is in the past,...and thus not real. Stop making things up just because doing such is more palatable for some belief. Be impeccably honest.

 

Yes, be impeccably honest... 'Stop making things up just because doing such is more palatable for some belief'.

 

There is Present in time and outside of time... Don't believe this,... what do you believe ? The proof you accept ultimately depends on what you choose to believe ... Take the statement as deep as you can,...and then keep going till you actually find the truth... when you uncover the truth if you choose to accept it and believe it you will know the truth...

[et-thoughts]

I disagree with the concept of ineffability or inconceivability,...such ignorant predispositions that truth is ineffable, and beyond mind, is fully incorrect. The notion that truth is ineffable is perpetuated by the ignorant, and their inadequate vocabulary.

 

I find that contains a nugget of golden knowledge ! may others understand its true implications

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 12, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Vmarco]

Like you, I am sharing my experiences (not making anything up). I am not Buddhist (more of a light/energy guy), but i would agree that as one dives deep into what could be called the pure state, there is no "time". Time has a specific energy feel as you go very deep. But, for me the pure stuff is bubbling with potential. That spilling over is what gives us creation/reality. The pure stuff is not "separate" from existence, with all manifest (apart of) from it.

 

A question... Do you experience the "light" during your normal day or only during meditation?

 

Also, the "light that I am" has no direct correlation to light in what we call existence, so I don't see the usefulness of the analogy.

 

Thanks.

 

 

P.s. no beliefs... Just exploration...

 

If you desire to understand light,...go further! What is the source of the electrodynamic spectrum and your observation of energy? What occurs if you realized the so-called speed of light?

 

All "pure stuff" is not so much separate from reality,...it is that the perceived reality arising from the 5 skandhas don't exist in the first place.

 

You cannot get there through meditation,....meditation is merely a stepping stone, which most get addicted to.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Do you think you can clear your mind by sitting constantly in silent meditation? This makes your mind narrow, not clear."

Wei Wu Wei said, "The practice of meditation is represented by the three monkeys, who cover their eyes, ears and mouths so as to avoid the phenomenal world. The practice of non-meditation is ceasing to be the see-er, hearer or speaker while eyes, ears and mouths are fulfilling their function in daily life."

"The state of non-meditation is born in the heart...." Jigme Lingpa

Hui Neng reportedly scolded his monks for spending too much time sitting in meditation....He said that meditation is unnecessary, and warned that such practice can easily become a narcotic.

IMO, forget about meditation,...you'll end up like CT. forget about meditation

The majority of Buddhists in the World could care less about light,...just as most could care less about the prajnaparamita's and Vajrayana, or how Taoists could care less about the nature of duality from duality's point of view. Thus you are left with very little helpful documents.

As Jed McKenna correctly said, "99.9% of the World's so-called wisdom, East and West, for the purposes of awakening, is about as useful as a glass of warm spit with a hair in it."

If your interest resonate with understanding light, from Light's point of view, try this thread:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/

[Vmarco]

I find that contains a nugget of golden knowledge ! may others understand its true implications

 

"Knowledge" will never get you to an awakened state,...only Gnowledge is helpful.

 

Wisdom will never get you to an awakened state,...although prajna will. Prajna is not wisdom.

 

Wisdom is a very tricky word. It literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom points to the highest and most lofty ideas of ego consciousness, whose sole purpose is to sustain itself. Wisdom is to make the best use of knowledge,...yet to realize enlightenment means to let go of all knowledge. Knowledge is acquired through thinking/the Head-mind,...the truth arises from gnowledge/the Heart-Mind.

 

Here is a truth,...Light is proof that no god exists.

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 12, 2012 by et-thoughts

[Marblehead]

Energy does not exist beyond duality,...energy does not exist in the Present.

We have talked about this before but I just want to express my understanding here. Energy (Chi) and Mystery (potential) are the "Two" that "One" gave birth to. Therefore, in my mind, energy is the only true form of the essence of the universe. It exists in both Duality and Singularity.

[GrandmasterP]

First thing they taught us in physics class back at school was that...

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed...

That convinced me, if anything is truly immortal then it has to be energy.

[Marblehead]

Thinking about this last post; it is actually inconsistent with my current understanding, in that, I have previously stated that "Tao follows Tzujan".

 

Based on the above: What is One? Tao cannot be One because Tao gave birth to One. One must therefore be Tzujan - the processes of the universe - the self-becoming of the universe and all things.

 

And yes, I do still hold that Chi, the energy of the universe, is synonymous with Vmarco's "Undivided Light".

[Marblehead]

First thing they taught us in physics class back at school was that...

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed...

That convinced me, if anything is truly immortal then it has to be energy.

Yes, that is my understanding as well.

[Jeff]

If you desire to understand light,...go further! What is the source of the electrodynamic spectrum and your observation of energy? What occurs if you realized the so-called speed of light?

 

All "pure stuff" is not so much separate from reality,...it is that the perceived reality arising from the 5 skandhas don't exist in the first place.

 

You cannot get there through meditation,....meditation is merely a stepping stone, which most get addicted to.

 

Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Do you think you can clear your mind by sitting constantly in silent meditation? This makes your mind narrow, not clear."

Wei Wu Wei said, "The practice of meditation is represented by the three monkeys, who cover their eyes, ears and mouths so as to avoid the phenomenal world. The practice of non-meditation is ceasing to be the see-er, hearer or speaker while eyes, ears and mouths are fulfilling their function in daily life."

"The state of non-meditation is born in the heart...." Jigme Lingpa

 

Hui Neng reportedly scolded his monks for spending too much time sitting in meditation....He said that meditation is unnecessary, and warned that such practice can easily become a narcotic.

 

IMO, forget about meditation,...you'll end up like CT. forget about meditation

 

The majority of Buddhists in the World could care less about light,...just as most could care less about the prajnaparamita's and Vajrayana, or how Taoists could care less about the nature of duality from duality's point of view. Thus you are left with very little helpful documents.

 

As Jed McKenna correctly said, "99.9% of the World's so-called wisdom, East and West, for the purposes of awakening, is about as useful as a glass of warm spit with a hair in it."

 

If your interest resonate with understanding light, from Light's point of view, try this thread:

http://thetaobums.co...-what-is-light/

 

Hi Vmarco,

 

In my question about your whether you perceive the light in daily life or meditation, you made assumptions and extrapolated (rather than answer my question). Your assumptions about my perception on meditation were incorrect. One does not make assumptions while residing in the present. Assumptions are a projection of past memories into an "expected" future. That is an aspect of ego/mind.

 

I agree with your overall description of meditation. Meditation is a "contrived state" of mind. With a "calm mind", there is no difference between meditation and normal life.

 

In general, Buddhists do not worry about energy/light until they have reached the state of "calm mind". (They avoid/ignore the earlier states of body & mind light/energy focusing on clarity of mind). Beyond the level of "calm mind", one can perceive beyond the six senses. The concept of the "speed of light" becomes meaningless. Universal oneness with quantum entanglement is a better description of the "indescribable". In Buddhism, starting to notice this is part of the "completion stage" and is sometimes called building the "light body" or "rainbow body". Physical light is at the "gross level" and is nowhere near the same as spiritual/rainbow light.

 

Existence "exists", but it is perceived/felt differently depending of the "depth" of perception. A true Buddha has "integrated" all layers of perception. And... can perceive outside (or all of) time.

 

[suninmyeyes]

 

Here is a truth,...Light is proof that no god exists.

No ,no, no - god is light as well.

The proof is in my belief.

Just had to say that while reading this thread -- that is all.

Later ,

xx

[et-thoughts]

One does not make assumptions while residing in the present. Assumptions are a projection of past memories into an "expected" future.

...

A true Buddha has "integrated" all layers of perception. And... can perceive outside (or all of) time.

 

 

That assumption stems from within time... of course assumptions reside in the present---past---future and outside of them.

 

"some" ... 'can perceive beyond the six senses'.

[Stosh]

The Zen 'garden of the leaping tiger' demonstrates that nicely ( in both its limitations and expression)

[Vmarco]

Hi Vmarco,

 

In my question about your whether you perceive the light in daily life or meditation, you made assumptions and extrapolated (rather than answer my question). Your assumptions about my perception on meditation were incorrect. One does not make assumptions while residing in the present. Assumptions are a projection of past memories into an "expected" future. That is an aspect of ego/mind.

 

I agree with your overall description of meditation. Meditation is a "contrived state" of mind. With a "calm mind", there is no difference between meditation and normal life.

 

In general, Buddhists do not worry about energy/light until they have reached the state of "calm mind". (They avoid/ignore the earlier states of body & mind light/energy focusing on clarity of mind). Beyond the level of "calm mind", one can perceive beyond the six senses. The concept of the "speed of light" becomes meaningless. Universal oneness with quantum entanglement is a better description of the "indescribable". In Buddhism, starting to notice this is part of the "completion stage" and is sometimes called building the "light body" or "rainbow body". Physical light is at the "gross level" and is nowhere near the same as spiritual/rainbow light.

 

Existence "exists", but it is perceived/felt differently depending of the "depth" of perception. A true Buddha has "integrated" all layers of perception. And... can perceive outside (or all of) time.

 

 

My response seemed somewhat implicit,...I do not meditate, thus observe no light in that which I do not do. As for the "perception of light",...such is restricted to the 6 senses. I understand Light from beyond the 6 senses,...which is the only way Light can be honestly understood, and why I left a link to the discussion "What is Light", so your questions can be more focused.

 

There is no "Universal Oneness" per se. Consider cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle, who said that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. There is no BigBang, no singularity, creation or creator, because there is no time.

 

Yes,...understanding time upsets sciential logic. However, it is necessary to challege your beliefs if you are even to uncover the reality of duality and beyond. Truth is a very frightening thing for ego. Consider this youtube:

 

What is true? Most people fail to recognize that the foundation of a mathematical statement is only true in relation to the assumptions of "set theory," the assumption that any collection of objects actually exists. All objects, without exception, are indeed mathematical. The reason for that lies in the multiplying/dividing nature of the optically organized universe. However, the modern cosmological understanding of the universe suggests that no objects exist, indicating that mathematics pivots on a misguided belief in materialism. The sciences usually expound on relative reality through the assumption that object-ive reality actually exists.

[Vmarco]

No ,no, no - god is light as well.

The proof is in my belief.

Just had to say that while reading this thread -- that is all.

Later ,

xx

 

Your god is light, and in him is no darkness. Try post #4 on this link:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/

[Jeff]

My response seemed somewhat implicit,...I do not meditate, thus observe no light in that which I do not do. As for the "perception of light",...such is restricted to the 6 senses. I understand Light from beyond the 6 senses,...which is the only way Light can be honestly understood, and why I left a link to the discussion "What is Light", so your questions can be more focused.

 

There is no "Universal Oneness" per se. Consider cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle, who said that since time loses characteristics that separate it from space, the concept of a beginning in time becomes meaningless. There is no BigBang, no singularity, creation or creator, because there is no time.

 

Yes,...understanding time upsets sciential logic. However, it is necessary to challege your beliefs if you are even to uncover the reality of duality and beyond. Truth is a very frightening thing for ego. Consider this youtube:

 

 

What is true? Most people fail to recognize that the foundation of a mathematical statement is only true in relation to the assumptions of "set theory," the assumption that any collection of objects actually exists. All objects, without exception, are indeed mathematical. The reason for that lies in the multiplying/dividing nature of the optically organized universe. However, the modern cosmological understanding of the universe suggests that no objects exist, indicating that mathematics pivots on a misguided belief in materialism. The sciences usually expound on relative reality through the assumption that object-ive reality actually exists.

 

Thanks for the fun discussion.

 

Jed (books 1 & 2) is a classic example of someone who stuck at (or near) the level of "clear mind". This level of self realization is much more the "beginning" than the end. If one reads his 3rd book, you see that he is starting to break out of his mind trap as he begins to describe "human adulthood". His longing for human adulthood is his beginning to perceive the "light". If one reads the 3rd book with an open mind, you can see that he pretty much logically recants books 1 & 2, but his ego is obviously still in play as he tries to hold the three books together.

 

Also, while I am not trying to define/defend a creator in our discussion, there is no modern physics that denies the possibility. In addition, the recent work on Higg's particles/fields shows that things in "existence" grow from nothing. Most modern physicists also support the concept of parallel universes with our universe continuing to expand at accelerating rates. This acceleration requires "energy" from outside the "universe" to support it.

 

 

(edit - name reduction for SereneBlue)

Edited December 13, 2012 by Jeff

[JustARandomPanda]

Wanted to post a side note:

 

Please be aware when you make a post at Taobums it's putting things "out there in the wild" for everyone to see and/ or reply to as they will (within the bounds of the ToS of course ). That's the point of message boards after all. If you don't like that the possibility exists for you being quoted by other message board participants then don't post.

 

 

Now....

 

Back to the discussion.

[deci belle]

…not to mention that the present contains the totality of energy potential. Actually, there has never been another moment to consider real regardless of one's cause in terms of times or one's function by virtue of unborn nonorigination.

[et-thoughts]

Wanted to post a side note:

 

Please be aware when you make a post at Taobums it's putting things "out there in the wild" for everyone to see and/ or reply to as they will (within the bounds of the ToS of course ). That's the point of message boards after all. If you don't like that the possibility exists for you being quoted by other message board participants then don't post.

 

 

Now....

 

Back to the discussion.

 

Please be aware that because you can violate someone's will, or violate someone put on the streets it does not mean that you have such right... especially if the individual directly tells you to stop doing what you are doing... because its agains their will... yea I understand the issue of if you don't want to get violated don't partake in visits to a certain part of town... I do understand that criminal rejoice in their crimes agains others and taking what does not belong to them... Just like I understand that those who violate the laws of karma reap the rewards of such actions... It is best to stop violating the laws of karma and step into a better place... it is best to respect individual free will rights... in some places and times beings may get away with violating someone for a time though eventually they will reap abundantly for what they done...

 

It recently become evident that this place has occult places not for everyone to see and/ or reply to as they will (within the bounds of the ToS of course ). It recently become evident how occult participants here play and taunt and lure other toward contaminated ways... At this time you need to beware of the truth... though from what I have read and interacted here many rather embrace to something else... so be it... I am done...

[Vmarco]

Thanks for the fun discussion.

 

Jed (books 1 & 2) is a classic example of someone who stuck at (or near) the level of "clear mind". This level of self realization is much more the "beginning" than the end. If one reads his 3rd book, you see that he is starting to break out of his mind trap as he begins to describe "human adulthood". His longing for human adulthood is his beginning to perceive the "light". If one reads the 3rd book with an open mind, you can see that he pretty much logically recants books 1 & 2, but his ego is obviously still in play as he tries to hold the three books together.

 

Also, while I am not trying to define/defend a creator in our discussion, there is no modern physics that denies the possibility. In addition, the recent work on Higg's particles/fields shows that things in "existence" grow from nothing. Most modern physicists also support the concept of parallel universes with our universe continuing to expand at accelerating rates. This acceleration requires "energy" from outside the "universe" to support it.

 

 

(edit - name reduction for SereneBlue)

 

Yes,...Quantum cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle have denied the possibility of a creator as articulated in their profound insights of the No-Boundary theory. They have suggested that concepts such as the classic Big Bang model, a singularity, a creation or creator, a belief in a beginning and an end, or the Christian model of a beginning without an end are meaningless because time does not exist. Their "No Boundary" theory is consistent with what Mahasiddhas and Bodhisattvas have been saying for thousands of years.

 

Although I haven't read Jed 3, there are many examples of Clear Mind and beyond in the Prajnaparamita. Much of the terminology has to do with Alaya. Clear Mind is perceived within Alaya,...yet much is beyond.

 

Trungpa attempted to explain it like this:

http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_88.html

 

I personally feel that Non-dual Light is better way to approach the discussion. In the Shurangama sutra, Avalokitesvara felt that her Dharma-Gate, that is, through hearing, was the best approach,...and it likely was, a few thousand years ago. Today, near no one will surrender their human-ness,...that is, their 6 senses. Nevertheless, Avalokitesvara said, "As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated."

 

The sense organs are,...the eyes, ears, nose, taste glands, touch, and brain. The brain is the organ of thinking. The 6 senses cannot observe the Present.