The Absolute Present

[Vmarco]

…not to mention that the present contains the totality of energy potential.

 

The Present contains no such thing. It is impossible for the Present to ever be in time, energy, mass, ego, belief, or any other condition. Time, energy, mass, ego, belief, and all conditions are manifestations of the 5 skandhas, and always, without exception, in the past. The past is never in the Present.

 

All past is within time,...for there is but one time,...but that is part of the delusion of the 5 skandhas.

[et-thoughts]

Yes,...Quantum cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle have denied the possibility of a creator as articulated in their profound insights of the No-Boundary theory. They have suggested that concepts such as the classic Big Bang model, a singularity, a creation or creator, a belief in a beginning and an end, or the Christian model of a beginning without an end are meaningless because time does not exist. Their "No Boundary" theory is consistent with what Mahasiddhas and Bodhisattvas have been saying for thousands of years.

 

Although I haven't read Jed 3, there are many examples of Clear Mind and beyond in the Prajnaparamita. Much of the terminology has to do with Alaya. Clear Mind is perceived within Alaya,...yet much is beyond.

 

Trungpa attempted to explain it like this:

http://www.chronicle...stories_88.html

 

I personally feel that Non-dual Light is better way to approach the discussion. In the Shurangama sutra, Avalokitesvara felt that her Dharma-Gate, that is, through hearing, was the best approach,...and it likely was, a few thousand years ago. Today, near no one will surrender their human-ness,...that is, their 6 senses. Nevertheless, Avalokitesvara said, "As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated."

 

The sense organs are,...the eyes, ears, nose, taste glands, touch, and brain. The brain is the organ of thinking. The 6 senses cannot observe the Present.

 

Evidently thats based on what you choose to believe... Beware of what beliefs you choose to cultivate within you... least they entrap you into a web of deceit rather than help you to understand the truth...

[Vmarco]

We have talked about this before but I just want to express my understanding here. Energy (Chi) and Mystery (potential) are the "Two" that "One" gave birth to. Therefore, in my mind, energy is the only true form of the essence of the universe. It exists in both Duality and Singularity.

 

And Ki Masters have showed me that Ki is not energy.

 

Ki is considered to be the source or the Supreme Fulcrum, and synonymous with the Tao. In China, this is called chi. First was Wu Chi, the Great Source, which exists beyond form, or from which form extends. Then around the eleventh century CE (a time when most Asian understandings went terma), T’ai Chi was developed. Wu Chi is the Tao in stillness, and T’ai Chi is the Tao in motion. However,...the Tao is really never in motion. Ki is synonymous with undivided, still light.

 

Some philosophies suggest that Ki can be accessed through three points. Hapkido practitioners are primarily interested in the danjun point, which is located about nine centimeters below the navel. The thymus and pineal area are the other Ki points, which can be activated through Ki practices, such as Reiki and Sunyata. Many often limit their understanding of Ki or Chi by calling it energy. Ki is not an energy; it’s a stillness. There is no energy in stillness, although we could refer to Ki-related energy. T’ai Chi is a moving meditation that allows an unimpeded circulation of energy from the still point of Ki.

Ki permits energy to flow more freely when the bodily, emotional, and mental faculties are relaxed. Ki itself is a still silence that is similar to the eye of a hurricane or typhoon. The kihap or yell that martial artists use, when done correctly, is simply the exhale, or a place where the still eye of the hurricane meets the eye wall of the storm and manifests physical destruction. The greatest power arises through the greatest relaxation. The lower a hurricane’s pressure at its center, the more devastating the storm is at the eye wall. The more relaxed the martial artist, the more overwhelming the energy that extends from the Ki. The greatest (and only) power in the universe unfurls from a zero-point.

 

Korean Hapkido Grand Master Jeong told me, "Ki is in the stop [or zero point] before the kihap." The power is not in the yell; the yell or energy is simply an incidental byproduct of the Ki process. The kihap is just the exhale. A kihap uttered without connecting with the stop is mere posing or pretending. Instead of martial artists’ practicing a yell, they should be practicing the stop. When power comes from the stop, the kihap simply happens.

 

The Ki Master Koichi Tohei said, "We are able to move most rapidly and violently when we remain perfectly calm. Likewise, the truest calm is reached when we move at the greatest speed."

Ki is in the present, thus beyond time, yet the energy extended through Ki moves in time, as the lever of a seesaw harmoniously moves upon a timeless, balanced middle.

True Ki or Chi, cannot be understood through the 6 senses.

Lao-zu said, "the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go."

[et-thoughts]

The Present contains no such thing. It is impossible for the Present to ever be in time, energy, mass, ego, belief, or any other condition. Time, energy, mass, ego, belief, and all conditions are manifestations of the 5 skandhas, and always, without exception, in the past. The past is never in the Present.

 

All past is within time,...for there is but one time,...but that is part of the delusion of the 5 skandhas.

 

the eternal moment where past present future exists as a singularity of time is but a blink of the creators eye within its eternal existence ... imagine how many more blinks the creator can have in that eternal existence...

[Vmarco]

Evidently thats based on what you choose to believe... Beware of what beliefs you choose to cultivate within you... least they entrap you into a web of deceit rather than help you to understand the truth...

 

Yes,...truth cannot be uncovered through belief. Don't believe nothing I type,...and also don't believe what I type is based on belief. Instead of ad hominem every time something threatens your belief,...be honest,...attempt to prove them false.

 

For those on the Short Path, the way to uncover truth is by recognizing what's false. The statement "There is no present in time" is irrefutable. Your belief system may not like it,...and even attempt to refute it,...however, brutal honesty will eventually triumph over the ego.

 

Lao-zu said, "...religions (that is, sets of belief) are desperate, clever, human inventions; the Intregal Way is a deep expression of the whole...religions rely on hypnotic manipulation of undeveloped minds; the Intregal Way is founded on the free transmission of immutable truth."

[Vmarco]

the eternal moment where past present future exists as a singularity of time is but a blink of the creators eye within its eternal existence ... imagine how many more blinks the creator can have in that eternal existence...

 

LOL Obviously, you really cannot observe how dishonest you are. How can you merge the conditions of the past, and hope of the future with the Unconditional Present? Only neurosis could imagine such fancy.

 

There is not, nor has ever been a singularity. That's simply sciential thinking.

[et-thoughts]

..be honest,...attempt to prove them false.

 

For those on the Short Path, the way to uncover truth is by recognizing what's ...

 

... true. I played the foolish fools game of attempting to prove the fool is a fool... whiles it was simply evident that the fool just did not want to listen to reason ... I found it was and entertaining interchange... refute what you claim is irrefutable and realize the truth of the matter...

[et-thoughts]

LOL Obviously, you really cannot observe how dishonest you are. How can you merge the conditions of the past, and hope of the future with the Unconditional Present? Only neurosis could imagine such fancy.

 

There is not, nor has ever been a singularity. That's simply sciential thinking.

 

the same way i change the future and the past in the present moment...

[Marblehead]

And Ki Masters have showed me that Ki is not energy.

I cannot speak to what others believe, only to what I believe. Science has not disproven what I believe regarding Chi being the energy of the universe. Therefore I have no reason to change my mind yet.

[GrandmasterP]

It's all names but as far as I am aware that first law of physics has yet to be refuted.

The only eternal thing they have come up with so far that cannot be created or destroyed is energy.

I reckon Qi is energy.

[GrandmasterP]

 

 

the same way i change the future and the past in the present moment...

.....

....

You be careful there with that ' changing the past' et old buddy.

I was only saying to Elvis last week at that nice Mr. Hitler's coffee morning how messing with the past might be risky.

[Stosh]

It's all names but as far as I am aware that first law of physics has yet to be refuted.

The only eternal thing they have come up with so far that cannot be created or destroyed is energy.

I reckon Qi is energy.

 

Ummm what would the destruction of a thing but an alteration in its presentation , for instance mass converting to energy and particles , energy then would only have to be changed in its presentation to be considered 'destructed' and conversions of energy happen all the time.

One either has to admit that energy can be actually destroyed or that mass cannot be.

What can be altered is the relative distributions and configurations of mass and energy and space.

 

(Since even the local negation of two forces is the inverse of not having negated them on a larger scale energy isnt destroyed but the same can be said for mass which is an alternate expression of energy. ( remember they are convertible))

[Marblehead]

.....

....

You be careful there with that ' changing the past' et old buddy.

Hehehe. I already told him he can't change the past but he wasn't listening.

[Marblehead]

Ummm what would the destruction of a thing but an alteration in its presentation , for instance mass converting to energy and particles , energy then would only have to be changed in its presentation to be considered 'destructed' and conversions of energy happen all the time.

If I remember correctly Lao Tzu spoke to the concept that creation and destruction are the same thing. Chuang Tzu spoke to this numerous times. Only the form (matter) changes, the essence (energy) remains.

[Jeff]

 

Yes,...Quantum cosmologists Steven Hawking and Jim Hartle have denied the possibility of a creator as articulated in their profound insights of the No-Boundary theory. They have suggested that concepts such as the classic Big Bang model, a singularity, a creation or creator, a belief in a beginning and an end, or the Christian model of a beginning without an end are meaningless because time does not exist. Their "No Boundary" theory is consistent with what Mahasiddhas and Bodhisattvas have been saying for thousands of years.

 

Although I haven't read Jed 3, there are many examples of Clear Mind and beyond in the Prajnaparamita. Much of the terminology has to do with Alaya. Clear Mind is perceived within Alaya,...yet much is beyond.

 

Trungpa attempted to explain it like this:

http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_88.html

 

I personally feel that Non-dual Light is better way to approach the discussion. In the Shurangama sutra, Avalokitesvara felt that her Dharma-Gate, that is, through hearing, was the best approach,...and it likely was, a few thousand years ago. Today, near no one will surrender their human-ness,...that is, their 6 senses. Nevertheless, Avalokitesvara said, "As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated."

 

The sense organs are,...the eyes, ears, nose, taste glands, touch, and brain. The brain is the organ of thinking. The 6 senses cannot observe the Present.

 

Thanks again for your thoughtful response.

 

Hawking & Hartie are brilliant physicists, but have not shown that they can percieve beyond the gross layers of existence. They are operating in the framework of the six senses. Additionally, they have no "good" explanation for why the growth of the universe is accelerating. Acceleration requires energy. Postulating God is just as valid as a closed loop universe theory.

 

On Jed, I highly recommend that you read his 3rd book (or at least don't quote him in the future), because he completely undermines your position.

 

I also agree that non-dual light is the right way to approach it, as I have been saying that from the beginning of the discussion. (Why I asked you if you could percieve it?) The issue is that the sutra is not describing "gross light" of the gross percieved reality. That is why it cannot be percieved by the six senses. It can only be percieved after one has moved "beyond mind". Also, there is not just one type of non-dual light (more of a spectrum).

 

Finally, I am also a big fan of using hearing as the approach. I think that listening most naturally leads to a calm mind. Relaxing music can be particularly effective in a busy schedule. If one "just listens", you will notice the music actually seems to get louder.

 

[et-thoughts]

Hehehe. I already told him he can't change the past but he wasn't listening.

 

following that logic will lead you to the conclusion that its impossible to change the future... nor the present... you are what you are and there is nothing you can do about it... and frankly it thats the case there is little point in further dialogue...

[Marblehead]

following that logic will lead you to the conclusion that its impossible to change the future... nor the present... you are what you are and there is nothing you can do about it... and frankly it thats the case there is little point in further dialogue...

Nope. You are still using faulty logic. Think on it a little more. And remember, the past is written in stone. The 'now' is presently happening. What we do now will effect the future. Yes, we can choose how we act and react in the now and this will, not change, but set the path for the future, but not change it because it hasn't happeed yet.

 

The "now" moment is the only moment we can truely live in. (Even though, as Vmarco points out, there is a slight time difference between cause and effect, but for practicle purposes we will call it the present.) (But then Vmarco suggests that time doesn't exist so WTF!)

[skydog]

Edited December 13, 2012 by sinansencer

[Mokona]

GODAMNIT ET, why do you delete all of your posts? Why post at all?

[Vmarco]

I cannot speak to what others believe, only to what I believe. Science has not disproven what I believe regarding Chi being the energy of the universe. Therefore I have no reason to change my mind yet.

 

The "mind" that you think you are, is always wrong, regardless of the consensus of other wrong minds, Anyone, honestly dedicated to uncoving truth, already understand that the 6 senses are liars, and should never be trusted.

 

All beliefs are untrue. All beliefs deny, dsconnect, disempower,...belief is as a cancer, a rogue entity interested only in its own superiority. As no cancer leads to health, no belief leads to waking up.

 

 

"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." -Thomas Jefferson

 

All beliefs are wrong,...otherwise they would not be a belief.

 

The understanding of just one truth, would make clear all that is false,....until one truth is realize, seek and find all the falsities you have built against it. Do not seek truth,...you will not uncover it. Instead identify what is false.

 

"we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

"The biggest crux to the evolution of humanity is breaking through your own indoctrination. It is very, very difficult to overcome emotional elements that have become so engrained in you, that you have an immediate reaction, an immediate suffering and pain, if something interfers with [your idea of the status quo]. It's a very, very complex problem. We have to learn how to identify and break our own indoctrination if we expect to move forward at all as a civilization" PJ Merola

 

If you want to understand the truth, you must throw away the notion of styles or schools, prejudices, likes and dislikes, and so forth. Then, your mind will cease all conflict and come to rest. In this silence, you will see totally and freshly. " - Lee Jun-fan

 

"When the false ceases to be, that is known as truth" Shurangama sutra

 

Truth, like gold, is to be obtained not by its growth, but by washing away from it all that is not gold. ~Leo Tolstoy

 

Truth is discovered when you simply refuse to lie to yourself anymore. SCOTT MORRISON

 

"The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared.

[Vmarco]

Vmarco points out, there is a slight time difference between cause and effect, but for practicle purposes we will call it the present.) (But then Vmarco suggests that time doesn't exist so WTF!)

 

No,...VMarco has not said there is "slight time difference between cause and effect",...there is no cause,...cause is a concept to make false understanding more palatable. There is only effect. Upon the Tao, the One and Duality effect its motion. The Tao did not cause the motion,...delusion did that,...just as the fulcrum of a see-saw does not "cause" the lever to move. In truth, there is no lever,...nevertheless, the 5 skandhas demand that you believe there is a cause and effect,...that the 5 skandhas can merge with its creator,..because to unconceal the truth that there is no creator, would undermine the delusion that the 5 skandhas are real.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Vmarco

[MooNiNite]

. never mind what i typed. doesn't really matter Edited December 13, 2012 by MooNiNite

[et-thoughts]

GODAMNIT ET, why do you delete all of your posts? Why post at all?

 

I revoked my consent for someone in particular here to copy my posts and they choose to ignore and violate said statement...

Thus I considered I had to edit/delete my posts... rather than tolerate what that person was doing... I also have chosen to basically wind down and terminate some conversations and cease posting... in a way I reconsider the reasons I was posting here and came to the conclusion that I should be moving on... I enjoyed the interactions here and have learned quite a bit... I believe that I also provided others with much food for thought and maybe helped them learn a thing or two...

[et-thoughts]

"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." -Thomas Jefferson

 

All beliefs are wrong,...otherwise they would not be a belief.

 

Evidently it would be better to have the right ideas than the false ones you have...

to believe what is right help you to get to know what is right... then knowing what is right helps to understand the importance of holding the right beliefs.

[Marblehead]

No,...VMarco has not said there is "slight time difference between cause and effect",...there is no cause,...cause is a concept to make false understanding more palatable. There is only effect. Upon the Tao, the One and Duality effect its motion. The Tao did not cause the motion,...delusion did that,...just as the fulcrum of a see-saw does not "cause" the lever to move. In truth, there is no lever,...nevertheless, the 5 skandhas demand that you believe there is a cause and effect,...that the 5 skandhas can merge with its creator,..because to unconceal the truth that there is no creator, would undermine the delusion that the 5 skandhas are real.

WoW! Now we have more to disagree about. Hehehe.