The Absolute Present

[Vmarco]

Although rarely discussed, there are two Present's; a relative and an absolute.

 

 

"Relative and absolute,

These the two truths are declared to be.

The absolute is not within the reach of intellect,

For the intellect is grounded in the relative." Shantideva 9.2

 

 

The Tao is synonymous with the Absolute Present, whereas Yin/Yang is synonymous with the relative. The Buddhist term Tathagata is also synonymous with the Absolute Present.

 

Lao Tzu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go." Buddha said, "the Tathagata does not come and go." Similarly, the Present does not come and go. Time come and goes,...there is no Present in time.

 

What many believe to be the Present, is not the Present. As such it is easier, although for most, equally as futile, to point to what the Present is not. The Present is not the past, nor the future. The Present of an awakened person is not in time. There is no Present in time. It's impossible.

 

The sleep of sentient beings is maintained within a Relative Present. To the Buddha, the world is maya, a mirage, an illusion, and through the six senses, the only reality we know. To the Buddha, nothing is harder communicating with than a mind that believes it arises from the 6 senses.

 

René Descartes said, "All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once." For most, they do not believe their senses lie, thus they will find an excuse to forget or deny the honesty needed for real observation.

 

As ego and the 6 senses are part of time, and can only observe the vibrations or motion within time, the real Present is only accessed through something beyond the 6 senses, or our human-ness.

 

This "something" is accessible to everyone. The Buddha said, nothing is easier to enlighten than a mind on the Right Path. Even the re-membering of the mind for the Right Path is easy. The "Right Path" is the Short Path,...the path of an impeccable Taoist.

 

An impeccable Taoist is impeccable with her word. Belief, faith, hope is never impeccable,...belief, faith, hope, is always dishonest.

 

 

Mind training is a practice for self-remembering. Not for re-membering the intellect, but re-membering Mind. An Absolute Bodhicitta aphorism is a ground upon which Bodhicitta, or an Awakened Mind can be realized. For example:

 

 

*Treat everything you perceive as a dream.

*Find the consciousness you had before you were born.

*You will never understand Who you are, until you realize When you are.

*There is no Present in Time

 

 

Bodhidharma said, "The mind is always present. You just don't see it" This is not in reference to the cerebral or sciential mind, but the sapiential or Heart Mind.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well"

 

Lao Tzu said, "the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go."

 

Leo Tolstoy said, "Truth, like gold, is to be obtained not by its growth, but by washing away from it all that is not gold." That is how the Now is uncovered.

 

Eckhart Tolle wrote, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

But as Goethe exclaimed, "Truth lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it."

 

The Present is not ineffable; only denied to protect the false.

 

Plutarch purportedly said, "The present offers itself to us only for the second and then eludes the senses."

 

Wei Wu Wei said, "Phenomenally, we can know no present, as it must be in the ‘past’ before our senses can complete the process of recording it, leaving only a suppositional past and future; noumenally, there is no question of ‘past’ or ‘future,’ but only a presence that knows neither ‘time’ nor ‘space.’ "

[Jeff]

Thank you for the thought (mind) provoking post.

 

A question... In "finding" the true present, how is it helpful to "*Treat everything you perceive as a dream"? When one considers nothing percieved as "real", does one stay focused in the moment or wander (in time and thought)?

 

[Marblehead]

Thank you for the thought (mind) provoking post.

 

I liked it too even though I don't agree with everything that was said.

[joeblast]

[Marblehead]

You are one hard man JoeBlast.

[GrandmasterP]

My wish for this Xtiantide is that each and every Bum gets the presents they hoped for.

[Bubbles]

What would be the _absolute present_ you are hoping for GrandmasterP ?

[GrandmasterP]

Well World Peace of course.

That'll never happen.

So how about...

A billionaire vet who only does it for fun, never sends a bill in and does not create such a fuss when the horse stamps on his foot.

Sheer fantasy.

 

I really want another puppy but as the North Koreans say

A dog is not just for Christmas Day, you can stretch the leftovers with rice and a dash of curry powder to make it last the entire week.

[Bubbles]

Oh, I see

[GrandmasterP]

How about you bubbles?

What have you asked Santa to bring?

[Simple_Jack]

Thank you for the thought (mind) provoking post.

 

A question... In "finding" the true present, how is it helpful to "*Treat everything you perceive as a dream"? When one considers nothing percieved as "real", does one stay focused in the moment or wander (in time and thought)?

 

First off, there is no such thing as an "Absolute and/or true" present in Buddhism. Since you're into Dzogchen and Tibetan Buddhism, so I'll post these quotes http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Padmasambhava:

 

Awareness is simply manifestation. All sensations are simply present.

 

Thus, be wary of anything that wants to be a super-awareness, a rigpa that is larger than everything else, as it can't be, by definition. Investigate at the level of bare sensate experience just what arises and see that it can't possibly be different from awareness, as this is actually an extraneous concept and there are actually just sensations as the first and final basis of reality.

 

As you like the Tibetan stuff, and to quote Padmasambhava in the root text of the book The Light of Wisdom:

"The mind that observes is also devoid of an ego or self-entity.

It is neither seen as something different from the aggregates

Nor as identical with these five aggregates.

If the first were true, there would exist some other substance.

 

This is not the case, so were the second true,

That would contradict a permanent self, since the aggregates are impermanent.

Therefore, based on the five aggregates,

The self is a mere imputation based on the power of the ego-clinging.

 

As to that which imputes, the past thought has vanished and is nonexistent.

The future thought has not occurred, and the present thought does not withstand scrutiny.

*"

I really found this little block of tight philosophy helpful. It is also very vipassana at its core, but it is no surprise the wisdom traditions converge.

 

Thus, if you want to crack the nut, notice that everything is 5 aggregates, including everything you think is super-awareness, and be less concerned with what every little type of consciousness is than with just perceiving them directly and noticing the gaps that section off this from that, such as rigpa from thought stream, or awareness from sensations, as these are golden chains.

 

So as Malcolm said over on DM (http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=9709&start=160 "Rigpa, in all Dzogchen texts, is constrasted with Ma rigpa. Because of not knowing [ma rig pa] our real state we enter samsara. Through knowing [rig pa] our real state, we attain liberation."

 

So for someone who has rigpa, phenomena of the six senses (thoughts, tastes, sensations, sounds, sights, smells) do not pose as an obstruction:

 

Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.

All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.

With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,

The training now is simply this: let your six senses be at ease and free. - Princess Parani

http://books.google.com/books?id=_yo1BGZXODEC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=%22Do+not+block+your+six+senses;+delight+in+them+with+joy+and+ease.+All+that+you+take+pleasure+in+will+strengthen+the+awakened+state.+With+such+a+confidence,+empowered+by+the+regal+state+of+natural+mind,+The+training+now+is+simply+this:+let+your+six+senses+be+at+ease+and+free.%22+-+Princess+Parani&source=bl&ots=gC42CQJNmr&sig=KmDi4NADIfMtwXyx5CIT1KAHcBk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rv3AUIewLee-0QH834HQDg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Do%20not%20block%20your%20six%20senses%3B%20delight%20in%20them%20with%20joy%20and%20ease.%20All%20that%20you%20take%20pleasure%20in%20will%20strengthen%20the%20awakened%20state.%20With%20such%20a%20confidence%2C%20empowered%20by%20the%20regal%20state%20of%20natural%20mind%2C%20The%20training%20now%20is%20simply%20this%3A%20let%20your%20six%20senses%20be%20at%20ease%20and%20free.%22%20-%20Princess%20Parani&f=false

Wellsprings of the Great Perfection: The Lives and Insights of the Early Masters translated by Erik Pema Kunsang pg. 100

 

Also, when rightly viewed, samsara and nirvana are inseperable:

 

On the ultimate level all events in samsara and nirvana never come into being, and so have no separate existence. On the relative plane they are illusory figments of mind, so again they have no separate existence. They are unoriginated events appearing in a plethora of magical illusion, which is like the reflection of the moon in water, possessing an inherent acausal dynamic. Since this essentially insubstantial magical illusion also never comes into being, ultimate and relative are identical and their identity is the one cause. Thus intuitive realization of [total presence] arises [with attainment of the unity of the two truths].

 

- Padmasambhava - Man ngag lta ba'i phreng ba

 

From the "Buddha VS Mara" thread http://thetaobums.com/topic/25461-buddha-vs-mara-short-video/:

 

67

When the [ultimate] truth is explained as it is

The conventional is not obstructed;

Independent of the conventional

No [ultimate] truth can be found.

68

The conventional is taught to be emptiness;

The emptiness itself is the conventional;

One does not occur without the other,

Just as [being] produced and impermanent.

69

The conventional arises from afflictions and karma;

And karma arises from the mind;

The mind is accumulated by the propensities;

When free from propensities it’s happiness.

 

-Nagarjuna's Bodhicittavivarana

 

*This is inline with the Diamond Sutra, where Buddha tells Subhuti that "the past mind is ungraspable, the future mind is ungraspable, and the present mind is ungraspable;" basically because they (the three times of past, present, future) are impermanent, hence transient and ungraspable.

 

P.S. I don't know if you were around when Vmarco was posting on here regularly, but: Be careful of what he posts on here. He tends to quote things out of context and generally distorts what Buddhism teaches in order to push his message. Anything he posts isn't what Buddhism teaches at all, but tends to be Hinduism in Buddhist drag.

[GrandmasterP]

If you go back far enough...

Isn't Buddhism ...

'Hinduism in Buddhist drag'?

[Simple_Jack]

If you go back far enough...

Isn't Buddhism ...

'Hinduism in Buddhist drag'?

No, because Buddha refuted the views of sects (and sects that didn't follow the Vedas such as the Jains) that followed the Vedas.

 

If you're talking about things like karma and reincarnation (rebirth in Buddhism,) than I would ask why do these have to be merely religious beliefs that were inherited by "Hinduism" (and not something that was also verified through yogic pursuits or deep meditation?)

Edited December 6, 2012 by Simple_Jack

[Vmarco]

Thank you for the thought (mind) provoking post.

 

A question... In "finding" the true present, how is it helpful to "*Treat everything you perceive as a dream"? When one considers nothing percieved as "real", does one stay focused in the moment or wander (in time and thought)?

 

 

Treating everything you perceive as a dream is an absolute bodhicitta lojong that helps uncover the barriers built against revealing ignorance. Keep in mind,...the 6 senses (seeing, hearing, taste, smell, touch or thought) cannot observe the real Present,...but can only witness the past. Everything seen, heard, tasted, touched, smelled, or thought, is in the past,...thus of the dream which those senses perceive.

 

Unfortunately, most Buddhist religious folks reject the above,...not because it isn't found in the sutras, especially the Prajnaparimita one's,...but apparently because the Lineage Holders since the 13th Century have adopted Long Path values,..that is, belief and faith.

 

Sakyamuni claimed to be in the Present through the term "Tathagata"...that which neither comes or goes. The term Tathagata is synonymous with Tao. As Lao-zu said, "the Tao doesn't come and go."

 

What doesn't Come or Go is synonymous with Light,...not the light of the electrodynamic spectrum,....but from the fulcrum upon which the electrodynamic spectrum effects its motion,...that is, the Still Light realized at 186k mps.

 

Remember,...from the point of view Light at 186K mps,...it travels no distance, in no time, and has no need of speed.

 

From a physics point of view, although E= mc² is readily agreed upon; nearly no one recognizes light's point of view that mc² < c. All energy is less than the Stillness of Undivided Light.

　

 

The Buddhists have a story about Shakyamuni Buddha and Angulimala, the wearer of a garland of fingers. Angulimala was a notorious bandit who cut off a finger from each of his victims and wore them all around his neck. Although there are several variations of the story, the punch line is nearly the same. One day, Buddha, the Light of Asia, was walking calmly along a road in the Kingdom of Kosala, where Angulimala was seeking his next victim. Seeing Buddha, Angulimala ran up to bash him from behind, yet he could not get close enough, and the faster he went, the Awakened One seemed to go that much faster. Infuriated and bewildered at not being able to catch him, Angulimala shouted for Buddha to stop. The Light of Asia replied,"But I’m standing still. If you desire to catch me, you too must be still." This is where oral traditions, especially Theravada ones, go off into different invented morals. The true pearl in the tale is that no matter how fast you move to catch light, light will always be 299,792 kilometers per second faster. Undivided light can only be caught through stillness.

 

Did the Light of Asia understand Light? Certainly! And if physics was more commonplace in those days, he most likely would have use such a topic.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Vmarco

[idiot_stimpy]

When one considers nothing percieved as "real", does one stay focused in the moment or wander (in time and thought)?

 

 

 

The moment, wandering, time and thought are intuitively seen as phenomena.

[C T]

 

 

Sakyamuni claimed to be in the Present through the term "Tathagata"...that which neither comes or goes. The term Tathagata is synonymous with Tao.

 

Vmarco claimed, not the Muni.

 

Tathagata - The Thus gone. One who has reached the other shore and left the vessel, not carrying it around (like you).

 

Your interpretation/inference leaves room for re-evaluation, i'd say.

[Marblehead]

Vmarco claimed ...

...

Your interpretation/inference leaves room for re-evaluation, i'd say.

Hehehe. Mine do too. But in the afterwards, I rarely change my mind.

 

Once again though, a post from Vmarco where I agree with a lot of what was said but not all. Of course, I cannot argue the Buddhist concepts as I am ignorant in that regard.

[GrandmasterP]

 

No, because Buddha refuted the views of sects (and sects that didn't follow the Vedas such as the Jains) that followed the Vedas.

 

If you're talking about things like karma and reincarnation (rebirth in Buddhism,) than I would ask why do these have to be merely religious beliefs that were inherited by "Hinduism" (and not something that was also verified through yogic pursuits or deep meditation?)

.......

That's a fair point. Funny how religion seems to have erupted almost spontaneously way back when with Common themes across many paths.

[Marblehead]

Funny how religion seems to have erupted almost spontaneously way back when with Common themes across many paths.

Likely the result of common processes in the brain of the human element.

[GrandmasterP]

 

Caveman Bob said.......

Bird fly.

Me can't fly.

Bird magic.

Me paint magic bird on cave wall.

Caveman and Mrs. Jones from the next cave are round at Bob and Mrs. Bob's for dinner, admire the bird painting and commission Bob to paint one on their cave wall.

Pretty soon Caveman Bob has given up his day job at the quarry in favour of full time bird painting and cave interior design.

'Bob's Magic Birds' does so well that after a while Bob comes to be known as 'Magic Bird Bob'.

In order to grow the business Bob realises that he needs to diversify and add value so comes up with little rituals and takes to wearing a bird feather cloak whilst he does those, then he paints your magic bird.

Bob advertises under the new slogan...

'Magic Bob's birds for that look of luxury, plus they bring good luck to your cave and family'.

Bob prospers and wants to spend more time with the guys playing golf so he takes on staff and trains them in bird painting and ritual.

Pretty soon the company is running itself and has branches all over the known world.

The further away from head office the more culturally varied the artwork and rituals became in order to suit the tastes and artistic preferences of various tribes.

Echoes of Bob's firm are still with us today.

[Marblehead]

Caveman Bob said.......

Bird fly.

Me can't fly.

Bird magic.

That's about the size of it.

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts

[MooNiNite]

THanks for the post, and the quote

 

"Relative and absolute,

These the two truths are declared to be.

The absolute is not within the reach of intellect,

For the intellect is grounded in the relative." Shantideva 9

 

=

 

[/color]

Edited December 8, 2012 by MooNiNite

[GrandmasterP]

Any chance you might change tomorrow's lottery numbers et?

There's a drink in it if you can.

[et-thoughts]

.

Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts