What is Qi and Jin with Scientific Explanation -- Parallel Thread

[dwai]

There is a soliloquy underway at present, that is trying to find all the biomechanical and newtonian explanations and interpretations of Qi and Jin.

 

These are wrong, imho. Qi is real -- those who work with it know it. It is energy.

What is energy then, you may wonder.

 

Physics defines energy as the ability of a system to do work. Or in other words, the rate of change of energy measured is work. So, energy, really is measured by the magnitude of work done.

 

Eg: Energy is measured in degree of heat, speed of wind, speed at which some object moves etc.

 

If Qi is energy, the Jin (or Jing depending on which school we adhere to) is Power, where power can be defined as the rate at which energy is converted into "Work".

 

To give an example, if the work done by a particular form of energy is generating heat, the rate at which it generates heat is the power of that particular form of energy.

 

In my opinion and experience, Qi has a wave like nature, but it can behave in a particulate manner (like Electro-magnetic energy). Depending on the nature of observation (in this case, experience), it can be wave-like and particulate. In different cases, it may feel like a wave and in others it feels like a "stream of particles -- like electricity is a "stream of electrons".

 

Jin is the Power associated with Qi and it's effect can be measured (in work done). Unlike the normal manifestations of energy (such as light, heat, etc), Qi has two aspects -- The Substantial and insubstantial. In other words, Qi has an expanding aspect as well as a contracting aspect.

 

So, Qi is both like say sunlight as well as gravity. Sunlight is expansive, gravity is contracting (condensing, etc). The interplay of the expansive and condensing is what produces life (ie if there is too much expansion, the energy will dissipate. If there is too much condensation, energy will become a point and collapse into itself.

 

Also, Qi can be guided by the mind. Like a self-boot-strapping system, the Qi starts the mind and then mind controls the Qi (known or unknown to the mind). But that which the mind operates on (the medium and the source) are both Qi (so Consciousness is also Qi or Qi is also Consciousness).

 

Qi in different amplitudes and wavelengths is identifiable as various phenomena we encounter in living beings.

 

By using the mind intent, the vibrational frequency of Qi can be altered. When Qi is made to vibrate at higher and higher frequencies, it is known as Shen. At lower frequencies it is known as Jing (essence),

 

When Qi is stored in the bone-marrows (empty space in the skeletal structure), at various frequencies of vibration, it is known as Jin. This Jin can then be projected unto the environment around us to produce work (Fa Jin).

 

How's that for a start?

[Flolfolil]

my interpretation of energy is that it is force of mind-will. When i move energy in my body, i consider it to be my mind controlling functions. Any spontaneous movements i believe are just my own hyper awareness of my bodies systems which then initiates spasms

[Ninjafro]

I'm just going to poop your party a little bit.

 

Physics defines energy as the ability of a system to do work. Or in other words, the rate of change of energy measured is work. So, energy, really is measured by the magnitude of work done.

 

 

No. Energy (in Newtonian terms) is either an amount of work converted into some acting phenomena (kinetic, electric, elastic), or the potential for work to be done through a medium. In any case, energy (assuming an initial-zero state) is defined as a scalar with the same units as work, N*m, which is not at ALL a measure of the "rate of change" of work. The rate of change of work is power.

 

Eg: Energy is measured in degree of heat, speed of wind, speed at which some object moves etc.

 

 

No again. Heat itself is a form of energy. There is no such thing as a "degree of heat." The speed of wind isn't a unit of energy; an energetic magnitude can be derived from the kinetic energy of the motion of the air (see: fluid mechanics). The same applies to the speed of any object. Speed =/= energy. Speed indicates the presence of energy, but the magnitude of speed is not even linearly associated with the magnitude of energy present within a system.

 

If Qi is energy, the Jin (or Jing depending on which school we adhere to) is Power, where power can be defined as the rate at which energy is converted into "Work".

 

 

Wrong again. Power is the rate of change in work (what you associated with "energy.") Additionally, in schools of Taoist internal alchemy (I'm speaking mostly from the Jin Dan method), jing and qi are connected, but neither are conventionally "energy" or "power" in that the magnitude of one determines the rate of change in the other.

 

To give an example, if the work done by a particular form of energy is generating heat, the rate at which it generates heat is the power of that particular form of energy.

 

 

Nope. Work does not "generate" heat. Work can be done AS heat, but heat can never be "generated." Again, energy does not have a "particular power." An isolated system can have kinetic energy (a specific form of energy) without having any associated power, but an external source exerts a power of a negative magnitude, decreasing the kinetic energy. Your statement does not hold.

 

In my opinion and experience, Qi has a wave like nature, but it can behave in a particulate manner (like Electro-magnetic energy). Depending on the nature of observation (in this case, experience), it can be wave-like and particulate. In different cases, it may feel like a wave and in others it feels like a "stream of particles -- like electricity is a "stream of electrons".

 

 

Faulty. Electricity is not a "stream of electrons." Electricity is the bumping of electrons against one another (electrons do not actually move) in a manner defined by the EM field.

 

Jin is the Power associated with Qi and it's effect can be measured (in work done). Unlike the normal manifestations of energy (such as light, heat, etc), Qi has two aspects -- The Substantial and insubstantial. In other words, Qi has an expanding aspect as well as a contracting aspect.

 

 

If you knew anything about calculus, you'd see the flaw in this statement. If jing is the power that affects qi, it cannot be "expanding and contracting." If jing is the defining characteristic of "power," the derivative of qi cannot be both negative and positive periodically, as this implies a wavering (and therefore inconsistency in the notion of qi-informing jing).

 

So, Qi is both like say sunlight as well as gravity. Sunlight is expansive, gravity is contracting (condensing, etc). The interplay of the expansive and condensing is what produces life (ie if there is too much expansion, the energy will dissipate. If there is too much condensation, energy will become a point and collapse into itself.

 

 

Sunlight and gravity are not even "forms of energy." Sunlight itself is a source of energy (see: Planck's input in quantum mechanics); gravity can provide potential energy, but it cannot do so without energy being provided by another source. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

Also, Qi can be guided by the mind. Like a self-boot-strapping system, the Qi starts the mind and then mind controls the Qi (known or unknown to the mind). But that which the mind operates on (the medium and the source) are both Qi (so Consciousness is also Qi or Qi is also Consciousness).

 

Qi in different amplitudes and wavelengths is identifiable as various phenomena we encounter in living beings.

 

By using the mind intent, the vibrational frequency of Qi can be altered. When Qi is made to vibrate at higher and higher frequencies, it is known as Shen. At lower frequencies it is known as Jing (essence),

 

 

I thought you said "jing" was the "power" of the "particular energy" of qi? Power =/= energy, so you're contradicting yourself by stating that jing is a "lower vibration" of qi.

 

When Qi is stored in the bone-marrows (empty space in the skeletal structure), at various frequencies of vibration, it is known as Jin. This Jin can then be projected unto the environment around us to produce work (Fa Jin).

 

How's that for a start?

 

Overall, it's rather shoddy, and I wouldn't depend on it. How can you state (however inaccurately) that qi, jing, and shen correspond to Newtonian physics, and then go on to depend on the precepts of quantum physics (two completely different views) to support it? Where is your source of information on all of this? Not to be overly critical, but what's the point of feigning understanding of things to strengthen an argument?

Edited December 7, 2012 by Ninjafro

[dwai]

No. Energy (in Newtonian terms) is either an amount of work converted into some acting phenomena (kinetic, electric, elastic), or the potential for work to be done through a medium. In any case, energy (assuming an initial-zero state) is defined as a scalar with the same units as work, N*m, which is not at ALL a measure of the "rate of change" of work. The rate of change of work is power.

 

Energy is measured in the amount of work done. There is no direct way to measure Energy itself. The rate of change of energy is power. Joule vs Joules/second ?

 

 

No again. Heat itself is a form of energy. There is no such thing as a "degree of heat." The speed of wind isn't a unit of energy; an energetic magnitude can be derived from the kinetic energy of the motion of the air (see: fluid mechanics). The same applies to the speed of any object. Speed =/= energy. Speed indicates the presence of energy, but the magnitude of speed is not even linearly associated with the magnitude of energy present within a system.

 

Isn't temperature a "degree" of heat? Of course speed is not energy. But the energy consumed to move an object from point A to point B can be measured via speed (or the Work done, in effect).

 

Wrong again. Power is the rate of change in work (what you associated with "energy.") Additionally, in schools of Taoist internal alchemy (I'm speaking mostly from the Jin Dan method), jing and qi are connected, but neither are conventionally "energy" or "power" in that the magnitude of one determines the rate of change in the other.

 

Already addressed above

Power is the rate of change of energy/work (you can't directly measure energy, can you?)...and my intention was not to suggest that Daoists measure jing or qi by rate of change of another. However, Jing is transmuted into Qi and Qi into Shen (at least in the system that I follow). How it is done is by changing the frequency.

 

Nope. Work does not "generate" heat. Work can be done AS heat, but heat can never be "generated." Again, energy does not have a "particular power." An isolated system can have kinetic energy (a specific form of energy) without having any associated power, but an external source exerts a power of a negative magnitude, decreasing the kinetic energy. Your statement does not hold.

 

You do "work" by rubbing your hands together..the result is generation of heat. One form of energy can be transformed into another (heat to light, electricity to heat, etc).

 

Take electricity...P=VI ( V=IR, P=I²R) .So, you are running a particular magnitude current (Amperage) through a resistor and generating Power. I think it stands quite well, thank you.

 

 

Faulty. Electricity is not a "stream of electrons." Electricity is the bumping of electrons against one another (electrons do not actually move) in a manner defined by the EM field.

 

Electric current is a stream of electrons flowing through a conducting medium. I could go into details of how it works but the same principle applies in other cases as well. An electron is a charged subatomic particle and the current is the rate of flow of electrons.

 

 

If you knew anything about calculus, you'd see the flaw in this statement. If jing is the power that affects qi, it cannot be "expanding and contracting." If jing is the defining characteristic of "power," the derivative of qi cannot be both negative and positive periodically, as this implies a wavering (and therefore inconsistency in the notion of qi-informing jing).

 

Actually I know quite a lot about Calculus and far more advanced concepts of mathematics than that -- I am an engineer by profession and training. I never said Jing is the power that affects QI. I said Jing, Qi and Shen are energy vibrating at different frequencies.

 

I said that Jin is the Power that is generated by applying stored Qi energy (like electric power is generated from a battery).

 

I thought you said "jing" was the "power" of the "particular energy" of qi? Power =/= energy, so you're contradicting yourself by stating that jing is a "lower vibration" of qi.

 

 

Jing and Jin are not the same. Although different systems use the same term to describe two separate things.

Jing is Qi vibrating at a particular frequency, Jin is the power generated by applying Qi stored in the bone marrow.

 

Overall, it's rather shoddy, and I wouldn't depend on it. How can you state (however inaccurately) that qi, jing, and shen correspond to Newtonian physics, and then go on to depend on the precepts of quantum physics (two completely different views) to support it? Where is your source of information on all of this? Not to be overly critical, but what's the point of feigning understanding of things to strengthen an argument?

 

What I'm trying to convey is exactly the opposite of your inference. I'm saying Qi, Jin, Jing, Shen are not newtonian in nature and therefore cannot be articulated in terms of newtonian physics. These are actually quantum in nature and any attempt to try and explaining them in newtonian terms are off the mark, so to speak.

 

We could go farther and deeper into this rabbit hole and it would still be a better approach than trying to do BS like alignments and force vectors and other crap like that. That is not Qi,Jin etc, and it doesn't have the same effect or characteristics as QI, Jin, etc.

[Ninjafro]

Energy is measured in the amount of work done. There is no direct way to measure Energy itself. The rate of change of energy is power. Joule vs Joules/second ?

 

 

 

 

Isn't temperature a "degree" of heat? Of course speed is not energy. But the energy consumed to move an object from point A to point B can be measured via speed (or the Work done, in effect).

 

 

 

Already addressed above

Power is the rate of change of energy/work (you can't directly measure energy, can you?)...and my intention was not to suggest that Daoists measure jing or qi by rate of change of another. However, Jing is transmuted into Qi and Qi into Shen (at least in the system that I follow). How it is done is by changing the frequency.

 

 

 

You do "work" by rubbing your hands together..the result is generation of heat. One form of energy can be transformed into another (heat to light, electricity to heat, etc).

 

Take electricity...P=VI ( V=IR, P=I²R) .So, you are running a particular magnitude current (Amperage) through a resistor and generating Power. I think it stands quite well, thank you.

 

 

 

Electric current is a stream of electrons flowing through a conducting medium. I could go into details of how it works but the same principle applies in other cases as well. An electron is a charged subatomic particle and the current is the rate of flow of electrons.

 

 

 

 

Actually I know quite a lot about Calculus and far more advanced concepts of mathematics than that -- I am an engineer by profession and training. I never said Jing is the power that affects QI. I said Jing, Qi and Shen are energy vibrating at different frequencies.

 

I said that Jin is the Power that is generated by applying stored Qi energy (like electric power is generated from a battery).

 

 

 

Jing and Jin are not the same. Although different systems use the same term to describe two separate things.

Jing is Qi vibrating at a particular frequency, Jin is the power generated by applying Qi stored in the bone marrow.

 

 

 

What I'm trying to convey is exactly the opposite of your inference. I'm saying Qi, Jin, Jing, Shen are not newtonian in nature and therefore cannot be articulated in terms of newtonian physics. These are actually quantum in nature and any attempt to try and explaining them in newtonian terms are off the mark, so to speak.

 

We could go farther and deeper into this rabbit hole and it would still be a better approach than trying to do BS like alignments and force vectors and other crap like that. That is not Qi,Jin etc, and it doesn't have the same effect or characteristics as QI, Jin, etc.

 

(Although counters to your statements are appearing still readily within my mind, I'll hold off for the sake of non-stagnated discussion.)

 

I'm also attending school to be an engineer. I'm almost sad, though, because I almost just cited the fact that I attend an Ivy League school as merit to my statements. The elitism is beginning to bleed through. D:

 

On a less contentious note, I wouldn't try to put matters of qi and shen into the box formed by the current state of science. There are things known of among the scientific community right now that can't properly be explained (yet), and the more I come to know about matters of (at least Jin Dan) alchemy, the less it falls into anything I've ever seen, read, practiced, or heard at a lecture regarding physics.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Ninjafro

[dwai]

 

 

(Although counters to your statements are appearing still readily within my mind, I'll hold off for the sake of non-stagnated discussion.)

 

I'm also attending school to be an engineer. I'm almost sad, though, because I almost just cited the fact that I attend an Ivy League school as merit to my statements. The elitism is beginning to bleed through. D:

 

On a less contentious note, I wouldn't try to put matters of qi and shen into the box formed by the current state of science. There are things known of among the scientific community right now that can't properly be explained (yet), and the more I come to know about matters of (at least Jin Dan) alchemy, the less it falls into anything I've ever seen, read, practiced, or heard at a lecture regarding physics.

 

I only posted this because this seems far closer to how to approach this (if at all via science) rather than bio mechanical alignment crap.

 

Ivy League huh? Good going...I graduated about 2 decades ago...

[Wells]

I only posted this because this seems far closer to how to approach this (if at all via science) rather than bio mechanical alignment crap.

 

Ivy League huh? Good going...I graduated about 2 decades ago...

 

dwai,

 

first thank you very much for starting this topic and for you interesting and informative posts so far!

As far as I remember, your master is George Bolger, who is a official Temple Style Taichi master and who was trained by Grandmaster Waysun Liao.

 

What I wanted to ask you is with your understanding as an engeneer and with your knowledge you learned from George, how do you explain Waysun Liao's claim that your chi will grow in "volume" and "size" (according to his book "Chi - Discovering Your Life Energy") when you train in "Chi-flow training". My only answer is that it is possible to convert Mind Energy back to Chi!

What is your opinion, if I might ask?

[joeblast]

What I wanted to ask you is with your understanding as an engeneer and with your knowledge you learned from George, how do you explain Waysun Liao's claim that your chi will grow in "volume" and "size" (according to his book "Chi - Discovering Your Life Energy") when you train in "Chi-flow training". My only answer is that it is possible to convert Mind Energy back to Chi!

What is your opinion, if I might ask?

Think of equations for field density - the field is more dense closer to the given object, and the field radiating outward will drop off with a certain curve. Higher field density about the generating object, you will necessarily have a higher field density at x distance away.

[joeblast]

I agree that Qi is a quantum mechanical phenomenon Here's something I wrote a couple years ago - a correlation from a simple electron deflector experiment. I've found that the practice correlation holds

 

So in order to manifest something, the conditions need to be arranged - i.e. figure out how to "most efficiently combine amplitudes." If we accept the postulate that qi is a quantum mechanical phenomenon, then we have some interesting rules that apply that seem to be well confirmed by mindful practice (using two as a # of interactions to keep it simple):

 

if we have two amplitudes a=3 and b=4,

 

-if the events happen in sequence, multiply the amplitudes: 3x4=12

-if the events are in coherence but can be distinguished, square the multiples then add: 9+16=25

-if the events cannot be distinguished, add before absolute squaring - 3+4=7, ^2=49

 

When practicing, events not in coherence will have the lesser outcome;

 

In refining, one finds coherence yet events are at least partly still of the mind and thus distinguishable;

 

Practice until the foreground fades away, background becomes the foreground - and certain events within will start to become indistinguishable, producing the most efficacious result.

 

 

Another thing that QM tells us is that (in the famous double slit experiment) it doesnt matter which slit the photon goes through - the path is a priori deduced from the sum of all paths; in a particle or field interaction, just like the center of a black hole, we really cant see or exactly measure the interaction itself because that would be interfering with the experiment, but it is indeed a manifestation when particles or fields interact.

 

Which begs the question,

What if you are the experiment?

[Wells]

I agree that Qi is a quantum mechanical phenomenon Here's something I wrote a couple years ago - a correlation from a simple electron deflector experiment. I've found that the practice correlation holds

 

[/i]

 

imo chi (as human life force) is a physical energy with wave properties. Therefore I guess it could be determined according to quantum physics.

 

Think of equations for field density - the field is more dense closer to the given object, and the field radiating outward will drop off with a certain curve. Higher field density about the generating object, you will necessarily have a higher field density at x distance away.

 

I understand. What I am dealing with is the problem if "the total amount or amplitude or magnitude of energy" of your own chi can only grow if you infuse directly chi from exterior sources as heaven chi or earth chi into it. Or if there are indirect ways like infusing your Mind Energy into your chi, which would make the growth of your amount of chi independant from exterior direct chi sources and from strategies to tap into those exterior sources.

So if it's possible (as I understand Waysun Liao) to increase the amplitude of the chi waves flowing around in your body by training "Chi-flow training", what you do by trying to increase the chi flows from point A to point B in your body with your mind, whrere does the energy come from that lets the correspondent chi waves grow in amplitude? The energy necessary would possibly come from the chemical energy of your food that gets transformed into mental work through your brain and that mental work or energy gets transformed into chi and therefore raising the amplitude of the chi waves that get trained during the training.

[Wells]

Quote Waysun Liao, "Chi - Discovering Your Life Energy", Shambala 2009 version, pages 68-69:

A strengthened mind and chi means the growth or buildup of your quantity of chi. [...] The best and the only way to to grow your life energy is to practice moving meditation - to flow your Chi. Bear in mind, only when Chi flows will it grow. Chi growth includes increasing its strength and expanding its range, size, and volume.

 

So where comes the amount of energy from to let your chi grow with Chi-flow training?

[joeblast]

imo chi (as human life force) is a physical energy with wave properties. Therefore I guess it could be determined according to quantum physics.

therefore, it must

 

 

 

I understand. What I am dealing with is the problem if "the total amount or amplitude or magnitude of energy" of your own chi can only grow if you infuse directly chi from exterior sources as heaven chi or earth chi into it. Or if there are indirect ways like infusing your Mind Energy into your chi, which would make the growth of your amount of chi independant from exterior direct chi sources and from strategies to tap into those exterior sources.

So if it's possible (as I understand Waysun Liao) to increase the amplitude of the chi waves flowing around in your body by training "Chi-flow training", what you do by trying to increase the chi flows from point A to point B in your body with your mind, whrere does the energy come from that lets the correspondent chi waves grow in amplitude? The energy necessary would possibly come from the chemical energy of your food that gets transformed into mental work through your brain and that mental work or energy gets transformed into chi and therefore raising the amplitude of the chi waves that get trained during the training.

Imho, it is both. By doing meditation that is doing mind training. The more powerful your focus is, the more efficiently you will be able to harness the mind training. That's why it is important to reach the point where the neural input and propagation drops off in meditation. Much in the same way there is an interlaced matrix of feedback mechanisms we must navigate within our bodies to get there, there is also a matrix of inputs that determine the available potentials, part of which is the Yi's ability to affect changes in the body's energy potentials, part of which is the level of chakra development, part of which is the body's jing - all of which adds up to determine the overall potency of Jin manifestation. When the potentials are harnessed harmoniously, that leads to greater possible overall amplitudes - so think back to my QM correlation that partially determines the harnessing of potential, that is one aspect of the matrix of inputs.

 

That is how "the level of stillness you are able to attain is partially a function of the amount of energy you are able to manifest"

Edited December 7, 2012 by joeblast

[dwai]

 

 

dwai,

 

first thank you very much for starting this topic and for you interesting and informative posts so far!

As far as I remember, your master is George Bolger, who is a official Temple Style Taichi master and who was trained by Grandmaster Waysun Liao.

 

What I wanted to ask you is with your understanding as an engeneer and with your knowledge you learned from George, how do you explain Waysun Liao's claim that your chi will grow in "volume" and "size" (according to his book "Chi - Discovering Your Life Energy") when you train in "Chi-flow training". My only answer is that it is possible to convert Mind Energy back to Chi!

What is your opinion, if I might ask?

 

The frequency increases and qi becomes pure®. I dont think amount of qi can be changed. What is done is making the system more efficient by teducing tension and inefficiencies both physical and mental.

[Wells]

The frequency increases and qi becomes pure®. I dont think amount of qi can be changed. What is done is making the system more efficient by teducing tension and inefficiencies both physical and mental.

 

ok, thanks for the answer!

But to increase the frequenzy of a wave, there must be an input/infusion of energy, because the energetic value of a wave raises with it's frequenzy! Where does that plus of energy come from?

[joeblast]

with no additional input of energy, increasing the frequency will decrease the amplitude

[Wells]

with no additional input of energy, increasing the frequency will decrease the amplitude

 

Exactly!

 

And if training your chi with your mind can increase the frequency of the chi by infusing energy, then it should be possible that training your chi with your mind can increase the amplitude of the chi also by infusing energy.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[joeblast]

not only that, but higher centers are leveraged from lower centers in the matrix calculations, so enhancing one aspect provides more potential for other aspects.

 

I included the link to the mathematical definition of a matrix here because there simply is no other good way to look at the equations and how the differing components interact with one another it is the only structure that seems to account for many inputs and resultant feedbacks.

[Wells]

not only that, but higher centers are leveraged from lower centers in the matrix calculations, so enhancing one aspect provides more potential for other aspects.

 

I included the link to the mathematical definition of a matrix here because there simply is no other good way to look at the equations and how the differing components interact with one another it is the only structure that seems to account for many inputs and resultant feedbacks.

 

I guess you mean the development of Shen for example.

[dwai]

ok, thanks for the answer!

But to increase the frequenzy of a wave, there must be an input/infusion of energy, because the energetic value of a wave raises with it's frequenzy! Where does that plus of energy come from?

 

By cleaning the system. More and more impurities will be removed and more Qi will be freed up to grow. So, in a sense, the Qi will grow, but not from an external source, but from within the system (this is my understanding). I know there are systems of thought where Qi can be pulled in from external sources. But based on what I've been taught, Qi cannot be added to -- we have to make do with what we have. This makes it all the more essential to keep our system clean (like a well oiled machine).

[Wells]

By cleaning the system. More and more impurities will be removed and more Qi will be freed up to grow. So, in a sense, the Qi will grow, but not from an external source, but from within the system (this is my understanding). I know there are systems of thought where Qi can be pulled in from external sources. But based on what I've been taught, Qi cannot be added to -- we have to make do with what we have. This makes it all the more essential to keep our system clean (like a well oiled machine).

 

Interesting! That pov clearly emphasizes the own responsibility for ones' own development.

btw another pov for what's going on during the "Charge Up" form is that there is rather an information transfer happening than an energy transfer when you "tune in" to the frequency of the universe.

[templetao]

By cleaning the system. More and more impurities will be removed and more Qi will be freed up to grow. So, in a sense, the Qi will grow, but not from an external source, but from within the system (this is my understanding). I know there are systems of thought where Qi can be pulled in from external sources. But based on what I've been taught, Qi cannot be added to -- we have to make do with what we have. This makes it all the more essential to keep our system clean (like a well oiled machine).

 

yes this has been my experience as well as also removing the bad energy signals helps to increase the signal from the ldt as well.

 

It is purifying the mind, the spirit, and the energy so one can once again listen to the ldt.

[dwai]

Interesting! That pov clearly emphasizes the own responsibility for ones' own development.

btw another pov for what's going on during the "Charge Up" form is that there is rather an information transfer happening than an energy transfer when you "tune in" to the frequency of the universe.

 

Yes. Information is also energy...in specific patterns.

[templetao]

Yes. Information is also energy...in specific patterns.

 

Exactly.

[Wells]

Yes. Information is also energy...in specific patterns.

 

What I meant is that the received broadcast from the universe reprograms the information/data of your energy rather than adding more energy (amplitude) to it.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dorian Black

[dwai]

What I meant is that the received broadcast from the universe reprograms the information/data of your energy rather than adding more energy (amplitude) to it.

Yes