Hatha Yoga and Opening Chanells

[RiverSnake]

There is always much about the many health benefits of Hatha Yoga and how it aids in digestion, longevity, flexibility....etc

 

However, i feel because it was imported to the West there is never much discussion on the esoteric side of Hatha Yoga. I have been practicing basic Sun Salutations every morning for almost a year now and how found it complements my practice immensely....however i would to go into the specifics of how it can compliment ones practices? These are just a few questions i though of.

 

-To what degree can Hatha Yoga open one's channels?

 

-Is basic Sun Salutations enough to open the whole body?

 

-Does flexibility mean that all channels are open in that area?

 

-Are there other esoteric dimensions to Hatha Yoga besides the simple physical movements?

 

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[dwai]

There is always much about the many health benefits of Hatha Yoga and how it aids in digestion, longevity, flexibility....etc

 

However, i feel because it was imported to the West there is never much discussion on the esoteric side of Hatha Yoga. I have been practicing basic Sun Salutations every morning for almost a year now and how found it complements my practice immensely....however i would to go into the specifics of how it can compliment ones practices? These are just a few questions i though of.

 

-To what degree can Hatha Yoga open one's channels?

 

-Is basic Sun Salutations enough to open the whole body?

 

-Does flexibility mean that all channels are open in that area?

 

-Are there other esoteric dimensions to Hatha Yoga besides the simple physical movements?

 

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

 

Each of the Yoga asanas prepare your nadis. When done with the right breathing, Yoga asanas will open nadis (channels) systematically. Usually, Yoga asanas need to be followed up by Pranayama (sitting in vajrasana or padmasana -- ie thunderbolt or lotus/half lotus), which will raise the energy up the central channel. Pranayama is usually introduced after a few months of diligent of asana practice.

 

Yoga in and of itself is a complete system to activate the chakras and regulate flow of prana/Qi in the body (besides the meditative element).

 

Care must be taken to progress through asanas methodically. A very good source is "light on yoga" by BKS Iyengar. It's always advisable to have a good teacher who can customize asanas based on individual characteristics of the student.

 

Pranayama will open up channels. The Tadasana will bring heaven sky energy down, uttanasana will activate the kwas and dai mai, you will feel flow in the lower back. Lunges will balance left and right sides. Adhomukhasvanasana (downward dog) will pull energy into lower dan tian (swadhisthana). Bhujangasana (Cobra) will activate middle dan tian (anahata).

 

Shavasana after yoga practice will balance and diffuse qi throughout the body (relaxing the limbs, torso, neck, etc will allow Qi to flow everywhere evenly). Longer period of Shavasana will help stay in gap between thoughts..elongating the gaps (emptiness).

 

Suryanamaskar (Sun salutation) works to open channels from top down (instead of bottom up approach of Daoist techniques), imho. First opens the Crown point, then progressively middle and lower centers. According to indian traditions, it is better to flow downward before flowing upward (ie UDT -> MDT -> LDT instead of LDT -> MDT -> UDT).

Edited December 8, 2012 by dwai

[RiverSnake]

Wow, thanks for the great response dwai. I have had great results with surya namaskar. Its funny but i guess given that i am practicing a Taoist/Buddhist Tradition of meditating on the LDT and at the same time doing Sun Salutations i guess i am getting the energy flowing and opening from both ends.

 

I'll remember to do some Shavasana next time i practice. Is Surya Namaskar a complete form in itself in terms of its ability to open up the entire body/preparing the nadis completely? I have found that i keep coming to deeper and deeper levels of flexibility and openness in my body.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited December 9, 2012 by OldGreen

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

Pranayama will open up channels. The Tadasana will bring heaven sky energy down, uttanasana will activate the kwas and dai mai, you will feel flow in the lower back. Lunges will balance left and right sides. Adhomukhasvanasana (downward dog) will pull energy into lower dan tian (swadhisthana). Bhujangasana (Cobra) will activate middle dan tian (anahata).

 

Hi Dwai

This is the first time I see anyone call the sacral chakra (swadhisthana) the lower dan tien.

In my experience, they exist at two totally different places. The lower tan tien is below the navel about 1 inch and 1 inch inwards. The swadhisthana is about two inches up from the tail bone, just in front of the spine. They are two separate locations, and both areas function differently.

 

Shavasana after yoga practice will balance and diffuse qi throughout the body (relaxing the limbs, torso, neck, etc will allow Qi to flow everywhere evenly). Longer period of Shavasana will help stay in gap between thoughts..elongating the gaps (emptiness).

 

Also, I hope you are not calling the bhavanga "emptiness" in the classic Buddhist sense. That would be a mistake, although a very popular one.

 

From Shaila Catherine's book "Wisdom Wide and Deep":

 

 

When You Think Nothing is Happening

Until the jhana factors are strongly developed, attention can easily slip away from the nimitta and linger in a dormant state of consciousness -in Pail language this state is called bhavanga. The Abhidhamma identifies this state as the life-contiuum consciousness that arises between every cognitive process. Everyone has uncountable moments of this life-continuum consciousness, although they usually occur below the threshold of awareness. Slower minds will have longer lapses between sensory processes; sharper minds will have relatively brief excursions into the bhavanga consciousness because attention will readily engage with the next moment of perception and rapidly process cognitive data.

 

To the meditator, a lapse into the bhavanga state may seem as though everything has stopped and nothing particular is known. Meditators describe this as being "aware of nothing" and may mistakenly allude to it as an experience of emptiness, yet they will not posses clarity regarding the object of attention. Sometimes it can seem as though time is just lost. The posture may be upright; hence, it does not have the obvious features usually associated with sleepiness or dullness. It is usually a very pleasant state, and overconfident meditators may presume it is an accomplishment, or pehaps even the attainment of nibbana. In reality, however, the mental faculties are not yet strong enough to discern the subtle functioning of this state of consciousness that links cognitive processes. If a meditator enjoys the pleasant but unclear state of bhavanga and repeatedly dwells in it, the meditation will stagnate and soon the mind will dull into complacency.

 

Extended lapses into bhavanga are likely to happen prior to jhana. These commonly occur as the meditator approaches the threshold to jhana but will not happen while actually absorbed in jhana. These lapses are compared to a child who is learning to walk - at first the toddler takes just a few steps and then falls down, tries a few more strides, and again collapses. The mind in jhana, by contrast, is stable and adroit, and the jhana factors are strong. It is likened to a healthy adult who can walk whenever, wherever, and however long she desires, without stumbling or hesitation.

 

 

The bhavanga is not "emptiness".

 

TI

Edited December 9, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[Dainin]

Hi Chris,

 

For in-depth information on going deeper with Sun Salutations, you might want to check out Swami Satyananda's book Surya Namaskara: A Technique of Solar Vitalization. Also, the Integral Yoga people have a CD or MP3 with the mantrams that go along with the practice traditionally.

 

Many of the hatha yoga styles that are popular in the U.S. have reduced or eliminated the more spiritual components to make it more "palatable" to the general public, and of course the promise of a shapely ass does more to increase revenues than the promise of liberation.

 

I have a few books by Swami Satyananda, and I've been impressed with depth and quality of information that he presents. He and other swamis from the Bihar School of Yoga have many books that cover most aspects of yoga. There's a guy in the Miami area who's affiliated with them, Swami Brahmavidyananda

I may go down there and check him out at some point. Tao Semko is another very knowledgable guy in your area. Good luck with your practice.

[RiverSnake]

Hi Chris,

 

For in-depth information on going deeper with Sun Salutations, you might want to check out Swami Satyananda's book Surya Namaskara: A Technique of Solar Vitalization. Also, the Integral Yoga people have a CD or MP3 with the mantramsthat go along with the practice traditionally.

 

Many of the hatha yoga styles that are popular in the U.S. have reduced or eliminated the more spiritual components to make it more "palatable" to the general public, and of course the promise of a shapely ass does more to increase revenues than the promise of liberation.

 

I have a few books by Swami Satyananda, and I've been impressed with depth and quality of information that he presents. He and other swamis from the Bihar School of Yoga have many books that cover most aspects of yoga. There's a guy in the Miami area who's affiliated with them, Swami Brahmavidyananda

I may go down there and check him out at some point. Tao Semko is another very knowledgable guy in your area. Good luck with your practice.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation Dainin. I just ordered it. Also Tao Semko comes to a restaurant i work at all the time. Perhaps i will ask him about some of this stuff next time i see him.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[dwai]

 

 

Hi Dwai

This is the first time I see anyone call the sacral chakra (swadhisthana) the lower dan tien.

In my experience, they exist at two totally different places. The lower tan tien is below the navel about 1 inch and 1 inch inwards. The swadhisthana is about two inches up from the tail bone, just in front of the spine. They are two separate locations, and both areas function differently.

 

 

 

Also, I hope you are not calling the bhavanga "emptiness" in the classic Buddhist sense. That would be a mistake, although a very popular one.

 

From Shaila Catherine's book "Wisdom Wide and Deep":

 

 

 

The bhavanga is not "emptiness".

 

 

 

TI

 

Hi TI

 

I honestly don't care for definitions of jhanas and skandas. I think they are wrong as is the Buddhist obsession with these....

 

As far as swadhisthana goes - my experience is that it is exactly the same as the LDT. There are theoretical musings about swadhisthana and Manipura but when the pulsation starts from the moola, it rises to the LDT (and therefore proving to me that LDT is nothing other than swadhisthana

 

Emptiness - I don't really care for (see above) what someone else thinks happens when mind gap elongates. It is emptiness to me...the same state I get to deep in Taichi practice. Emptiness, stillness, silence whatever we call it.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi TI

...

As far as swadhisthana goes - my experience is that it is exactly the same as the LDT. There are theoretical musings about swadhisthana and Manipura but when the pulsation starts from the moola, it rises to the LDT (and therefore proving to me that LDT is nothing other than swadhisthana

...

 

Hi Dwai,

So when it rises to the LDT, does it follow the front of the lower abdomen and end up just below the navel and about 1 or 2 inches (depending on much padding you have on your gut, if any)?

When it first rose, did you experience some sharp pain?

How far up approximately did it rise? (I assume you are calling the perineum the moola)

And what exactly are you saying is going up? Is it the pulsation? Or heat? Or electricity? Or is it pure white light as bright as an arc welder's torch?

 

The whole idea of calling the lower tan tien the sacral chakra is absurd. I am speaking from experience here.

The lower t/dan tien is also known as the hara.

 

Just look at the descriptions and the definitions:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantian

 

Traditionally, a dantian is considered to be a center of qi or life force energy.^[1][2] The dantians are important points of reference in neidan, qigong, neigong, tao yin and other self-cultivation practices of exercise, breathing, and meditation, as well as in martial arts and in traditional Chinese medicine. The lower dantian is particularly important as the focal point of breathing technique as well as the center of balance and gravity.^[3]

Taoist and Buddhist teachers often instruct their students to center the mind in the navel or lower dantian. This is believed to aid control of thoughts and emotions. Acting from the dantian is considered to be related to higher states of awareness or samadhi.

The Taoist concept of dantians as energy centers is similar to the Indian yoga concept of chakras as key points through where prana is stored (see also nadis). The major difference, however, is that Taoist dantians are the major energetic storage mechanisms whereas the yogic chakras are not so much storage centers, but energetic vortices which act as intake and output ports. Many traditions consider the dantiens and the chakras to be separate, albeit cooperative energetic mechanisms.

 

 

link: http://www.light-weaver.com/vortex/pdfs/Kundalini.Tantra.by.Satyananda.Saraswati.pdf

 

 

The location point

Swadhisthana corresponds to the reproductive and urinary systems in the gross body

and is physiologically related to the prostatic or utero-vaginal plexus of nerves. The

location of swadhisthana is at the base of the spinal column, at the level of the coccyx or

tailbone. This is a small bony bulb which can be felt just above the anus. It is

anatomically very close to mooladhara chakra in both the male and female bodies.

Swadhisthana kshetram is in the front of the body at the level of the pubic bone.

 

 

So, it sounds absurd to me to want to store energy in the sacral chakra. It is never mentioned that the sacral chakra is a vast storehouse of qi.

 

In my personal experience, in order to hit the sacral chakra through the sushumna, you have to pierce the granthi/knot at the base of the spine first. (most of the time but not in all cases). This causes great pain. Then, when you get the kundalini/qi/prana energy to the sacral chakra, it produces sexual ecstasy, but it is a different kind of bliss than the bliss found at the LDT. It is more localized and after a while turns painful or annoying.

 

Also, the order of activation is this: First, through cultivation, third eye practice, mantra, tai chi, qi gong (actually, many practices), it stimulates the LDT. The LDT looks like a firey dark orange red ball. I see it all of the time now. Upon stimulation and 'charging', the LDT releases heat and energy. The first place the energy goes is downwards towards the moola (perineum). I have studied this reaction many times. I also discovered the event of activation of the LDT which produces a current down to the perineum by keeping my breath out until the reaction occured. This is the first step. If you are not noticing that that occurs, pay more attention the next time. The LDT also activates any time you talk, or start to produce a mantra. Pay close attention and you will see that it is true. If you freeze yourself, that is freeze the intention of sounding a mantra, notice where the first energy comes out of. That is the LDT. If you practice at freezing a mantra, you can just stimulate the LDT any time you'd like. Then you can see the effects very clearly.

 

Activation of the LDT and the downward current that is produced results in genital reactions associated with sexual stimulation. If you apply the root locks to block the downward flow into the genitals, the energy turns around and comes up the body. If you have collapsed your ida and pingala, two side channels, you can lead the energy up the sushumna. The first time this happens, there is pain as the rising energy pierces the first knot. If you do not collapse the side channels, the energy can rise through either one, or even both of the side channels. Or, the energy can take alternate paths, circling around the organs in the body, causing discomfort and other symptoms..

 

If you examine Buddhist tummo, or vase breathing, or even kriya yoga pranayama, you will see that the combining of the winds (Buddhist) and prana/apana (kriya) is done at the area around the navel, not in the spine or around the spine. Not in the sacral/swadhisthana chakra.

 

Nothing personal here. I don't mean to denigrate you or your practices. So many times people can't draw a distinction between the LDT and the sacral chakra and it is something that people should understand.

 

As for not caring about the content of the rest of my comments, that is your choice. I don't care either..

 

TI

 

And I'm glad Jeff "likes" the ignorance.

[dwai]

 

 

Hi Dwai,

So when it rises to the LDT, does it follow the front of the lower abdomen and end up just below the navel and about 1 or 2 inches (depending on much padding you have on your gut, if any)?

When it first rose, did you experience some sharp pain?

How far up approximately did it rise? (I assume you are calling the perineum the moola)

And what exactly are you saying is going up? Is it the pulsation? Or heat? Or electricity? Or is it pure white light as bright as an arc welder's torch?

 

The whole idea of calling the lower tan tien the sacral chakra is absurd. I am speaking from experience here.

The lower t/dan tien is also known as the hara.

 

Just look at the descriptions and the definitions:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantian

 

 

 

link: http://www.light-weaver.com/vortex/pdfs/Kundalini.Tantra.by.Satyananda.Saraswati.pdf

 

 

 

So, it sounds absurd to me to want to store energy in the sacral chakra. It is never mentioned that the sacral chakra is a vast storehouse of qi.

 

In my personal experience, in order to hit the sacral chakra through the sushumna, you have to pierce the granthi/knot at the base of the spine first. (most of the time but not in all cases). This causes great pain. Then, when you get the kundalini/qi/prana energy to the sacral chakra, it produces sexual ecstasy, but it is a different kind of bliss than the bliss found at the LDT. It is more localized and after a while turns painful or annoying.

 

Also, the order of activation is this: First, through cultivation, third eye practice, mantra, tai chi, qi gong (actually, many practices), it stimulates the LDT. The LDT looks like a firey dark orange red ball. I see it all of the time now. Upon stimulation and 'charging', the LDT releases heat and energy. The first place the energy goes is downwards towards the moola (perineum). I have studied this reaction many times. I also discovered the event of activation of the LDT which produces a current down to the perineum by keeping my breath out until the reaction occured. This is the first step. If you are not noticing that that occurs, pay more attention the next time. The LDT also activates any time you talk, or start to produce a mantra. Pay close attention and you will see that it is true. If you freeze yourself, that is freeze the intention of sounding a mantra, notice where the first energy comes out of. That is the LDT. If you practice at freezing a mantra, you can just stimulate the LDT any time you'd like. Then you can see the effects very clearly.

 

Activation of the LDT and the downward current that is produced results in genital reactions associated with sexual stimulation. If you apply the root locks to block the downward flow into the genitals, the energy turns around and comes up the body. If you have collapsed your ida and pingala, two side channels, you can lead the energy up the sushumna. The first time this happens, there is pain as the rising energy pierces the first knot. If you do not collapse the side channels, the energy can rise through either one, or even both of the side channels. Or, the energy can take alternate paths, circling around the organs in the body, causing discomfort and other symptoms..

 

If you examine Buddhist tummo, or vase breathing, or even kriya yoga pranayama, you will see that the combining of the winds (Buddhist) and prana/apana (kriya) is done at the area around the navel, not in the spine or around the spine. Not in the sacral/swadhisthana chakra.

 

Nothing personal here. I don't mean to denigrate you or your practices. So many times people can't draw a distinction between the LDT and the sacral chakra and it is something that people should understand.

 

As for not caring about the content of the rest of my comments, that is your choice. I don't care either..

 

TI

 

And I'm glad Jeff "likes" the ignorance.

 

Hi TI

 

Why do assume that everyone has to experience something in exactly the same way?

 

I have never had excruciating pain etc. for me it has been gradual...I guess because I think I enjoy the process more than the outcome.

 

I don't care a hoot for getting enlightenment or anything like that. As I grow older I realize that if something has to happen it will. So I'm a theistic advaitin dao bum

 

I reify the unknown unknowable - I have a Ishta-devata and I prostrate in front of him. I ask him to show me the way. So far he hasn't let me down even when I have. I was given a mantra in my dream by an unknown sadhu and that mantra has rescued me front the doldrums many a time. I don't obsess with it, I simply let it guide me when I have an opportunity to...

 

Anyway getting back to the point. I have felt coolness when energy rises up. So pulsing is literally an opening/closing sensation (sometimes slow, sometimes very rapid). And it rises up along the spine (like MCO) to the crown point. Exactly the same as in tai chi. This is during pranayama with Antara kumbhaka of ~ 1 minute in a 1:4:2 ratio. Only it is more "forceful" as compared to tai chi.

 

The LDT is a wisp of smoke that moves around. It is Taiji itself so it is expanded and contracted at the same time. It turns and the turning causes the energy to circulate. No need to apply root locks etc. dropping the tail bone initially applies enough pressure to make it turn. When it starts to turn, it will drive the energy

 

I think we tend to over-complicate things a lot. Just chill and enjoy your practice man!

[thetaoiseasy]

what's the lower dan tien?

[RiverSnake]

Another practitioner of Hatha Yoga recently related to me today that in order to take ones practice deeper it is beneficial to hold the poses for longer periods of time rather than just the couple of seconds that people do I yoga classes. Could anyone share there experiences with this?

 

My 2 cents, Peace.

[Flolfolil]

Another practitioner of Hatha Yoga recently related to me today that in order to take ones practice deeper it is beneficial to hold the poses for longer periods of time rather than just the couple of seconds that people do I yoga classes. Could anyone share there experiences with this?

 

My 2 cents, Peace.

 

my yoga instructor says that holding the pose for longer influences the connective tissue rather than just the muscles

 

also lol, i was literally JUST thinking about this thread. collective unconscious

Edited March 24, 2013 by Flolfolil

[RiverSnake]

 

my yoga instructor says that holding the pose for longer influences the connective tissue rather than just the muscles

 

also lol, i was literally JUST thinking about this thread. collective unconscious

Is that good? Too influence the connective tissue?

Edited March 24, 2013 by OldGreen

[Flolfolil]

Is that good? Too influence the connective tissue?

 

idk, it feels good. so, maybe? i feel better holding poses for longer than shorter

[liminal_luke]

 

 

I have been practicing basic Sun Salutations every morning for almost a year now and how found it complements my practice immensely...

 

Hi Old Green,

 

If you're willing to go into it, I'd be very interested to hear more about how you've benefitted from Sun Salutations. I haven't done them much, but am always playing around with my practice and considering trying new things. Thanks!

 

Liminal

[gendao]

Stretching helps to open the meridians along whatever part of your body you are actually stretching. You can use this correlation to help self-diagnose and tailor your workouts to target specific meridians.

 

For example, stretching your hamstrings would help open your bladder meridians back there. Stretching your sides would help open your gallbladder meridians. Etc.

 

Bob Cooley noticed this effect experientially when he started stretching a lot... And Falun Gong also basically employed this technique in many of their "meridian stretching" exercises too. There are probably many others as well.

Buddha Showing a Thousand Hands is stretching of the body. This stretching unblocks areas where energy is congested, stimulates the energy within the body and under the skin so that it circulates vigorously, and automatically absorbs a great amount of energy from the universe. This enables all of the meridians in a practitioner's body to open at the beginning. When one performs this exercise, the body will have a special feeling of warmth and of the existence of a strong energy field. This is caused by the stretching and opening of all meridians throughout the body.

(I am not necessarily endorsing all of Falun Dafa, just noting how their qigong utilizes the same principle.)

Edited March 24, 2013 by vortex

[RiverSnake]

 

Hi Old Green,

 

If you're willing to go into it, I'd be very interested to hear more about how you've benefitted from Sun Salutations. I haven't done them much, but am always playing around with my practice and considering trying new things. Thanks!

 

Liminal

Here's a short list. Whatever practice you do I am sure Hatha Yoga is a good compliment. It's my understanding that chi travels best through a flexible and healthy body.

 

 

1. Increased flexibility

2. Dissolving of blockages (especially in the spine)

3. Increased Chi flow

4. Greater sensitivity to correct posture and alignment

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[Spotless]

The whole idea of calling the lower tan tien the sacral chakra is absurd. I am speaking from experience here.

 

Speaking from very clear experience as well - I agree.

 

While we do experience things quit differently, the two are simply not the same.