Vedanta: Seven Steps to Samadhi

[GrandmasterP]

Cool

I don't think Osho was locked up as part of some conspiracy to silence him over lineage whistle blowing.

It was more the illegal gun running, armoury stockpiling and attempting to usurp the democratic process of a small town in Oregon that did the trick.

He walked because a large financial deal was done with the authorities and he agreed to leave the USA and not attempt to return.

Mate of mine was there at 'the Ranch' or Rajneeshpuram as they tried to officially incorporate it as a township.

Those were crazy days and they were lucky it didn't all go 'David Koresh'.

That's the problem with gurus and utopias. It always ends in tears and sometimes much worse.

Osho is a brand name and a regular business now.

The fact that the guy was a shyster and a con man doesn't detract from what wisdom he did come out with.

All gurus are the same, the ones who believe they are genuine are simply self deluded as are their disciples.

Nobody really knows jack sh*t for sure, and that's a fact.

Osho was just the first to admit it, hence he was and remains the 'Guru's Guru'

Edited December 11, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[doc benway]

Ever heard of rouge agents?

 

Ever wondered why these guys get to be called that?

 

I thought it was because they were so adept at smearing some rouge on one's cheeks before one had any idea what the hell was happening...

 

But seriously, I think this points to an interesting aspect of lineage and gurus. The closer we are to them temporally and geographically, in general, the less pure they appear. In general, gurus are human beings who have had a glimpse. They've been where we want to be. But very few are free from their human characteristics and vulnerabilities. Each guru reflects their unique human characteristics, sometimes in unflattering ways. Quite as lineages reflect a cultural and geographical reflection of truth, method, and ritual. Some gurus are quite princely (Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, DeMello), some are sadly opportunistic or even predatory (Osho, Gurdjieff, Watts), others thoroughly depressed (UG Krishnamurti), maybe even a bit intellectual (J Krishnamurti), or artisitic (John Donohue, Alex Grey). It's mostly when we are so far removed as to really have no sense of their humanity that we make them into archetypes and deities.

 

Not to defend Osho, but his book called "When the Shoe Fits" was one of the best books on Taoism I've ever read. It actually shined a light on the core of the subject that helped me to begin to understand what the classics were pointing to. It engaged me in a way the classics hadn't. He had a glimpse of truth for sure but was unable to resist corruption.

 

I haven't looked at the Vedanta text but I may check it out. I'm currently enjoying the Ashtavakra Gita that's accessible on Ramana's website here. It would be interesting to compare the two, if I find the time.

[GrandmasterP]

When the Shoe Fits is a brilliant popular intro to Taoism for western-mindset readers, funny in parts too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Shoe-Fits-Commentaries-Stories/dp/1842930850/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355231878&sr=8-1

I'm not anti-guru at all, good luck to anyone getting a living by it, and there are plenty of gurus out there to choose from.

Check out guru list and league tables here...

http://www3.telus.net/public/sarlo/Ratings.htm

Yep....

Guruing for a living has to beat the old 9 to 5 treadmill.

What gets me about most of this modern crop is that, apart from Tony Parsons and he's an old Osho sannyasin and that HaHa Yoga guy; they all take themselves so seriously.

Back in the day we knew how to have fun.

Edited December 11, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[thelerner]

The fact that the guy was a shyster and a con man doesn't detract from what wisdom he did come out with.

All gurus are the same, the ones who believe they are genuine are simply self deluded as are their disciples.

Nobody really knows jack sh*t for sure, and that's a fact.

Osho was just the first to admit it, hence he was and remains the 'Guru's Guru'

Hmnn, I think the first sentence is what so many wrestle with. Can we separate the teachings from the man. Personally I find Osho the man distasteful and perhaps ultimately corrupt, but I admire some of his practices, his rebellion, some of his spirit. Manic work ethic too, like many of the commercial guru's.

 

Call me naive but I think there are good gurus out there. Not that I'm looking, but there are good men and woman whose tradition demands discipleship and they treat their flock well. Not a bad path as you're willing to spend some time as a sheep.

Edited December 11, 2012 by thelerner

[C T]

I thought it was because they were so adept at smearing some rouge on one's cheeks before one had any idea what the hell was happening...

 

...

 

Aargh! ROGUE!!

 

What in heaven's name was i thinking?!!

 

Thanks, Stevo!

[GrandmasterP]

Some gurus do wear rouge.

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Beloved_Osho_Books/Tao/When_the_Shoe_Fits.pdf

 

Free pdf of

'When the Shoe Fits'

here.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I found Osho to be helpful.

 

Each to their own hahah

 

You dont seem all that suprised Seth?

 

hahah

 

He was funny

Edited December 12, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Why is everyone hating on Osho?

[Flolfolil]

I think its because they know stuff, secret stuff, the juicy bits and all, that standard agents dont, hence they become dangerous to 'lineage'

 

if i knew some crazy secret stuff that could help people and it was within the scope of safety to teach them, i would tell everyone.

 

So if anyone is trying to get famous or make money off of their teachings, don't tell me anything you don't want published everywhere anonymously. If you have a good point, i will tell other people. For free. Might not even give you credit, but say "i read this somewhere." Lol.

[gatito]

Why is everyone hating on Osho?

 

Maybe they know something that we don't?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Edited December 12, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[三江源]

Ever heard of rouge agents?

 

Ever wondered why these guys get to be called that?

 

I think its because they know stuff, secret stuff, the juicy bits and all, that standard agents dont, hence they become dangerous to 'lineage' and have to be either ostracized or eliminated, or their rep tainted to such an extent that the whole intelligentsia would never again allow these guys to surface.

 

Yet, these guys are no less agents.

 

Even more so, considering.

 

What do you think Osho knew that standard agents dont? Anyone that knows the work of Osho, please chime in.

 

I wouldnt "hate on Osho." I know people who used to live with him for years, I never heard of any secret stuff that wasnt said elsewhere? Intrigued!

[GrandmasterP]

I was wondering too.

Posted this OP to what is a specifically Vedanta book on the Vedanta forum and, presumably because the book is by Osho the Vedanta-ists demanded this thread be thrown out of Vedanta hence it has arrived here in General Discussion.

I can see that a guru who comes out and admits that guruing is all abit of a sham won't go down too well with some who really really need to believe in a guru, but I was surprised that expulsion happened here on TTB.

It's the sort of thing you expect to happen on Dharma Wheel but maybe not on TTB.

[C T]

What do you think Osho knew that standard agents dont? Anyone that knows the work of Osho, please chime in.

 

I wouldnt "hate on Osho." I know people who used to live with him for years, I never heard of any secret stuff that wasnt said elsewhere? Intrigued!

 

I would not hate on him either.

 

The comment was not specifically directed at Osho.. more a generalized observation on how 'gurus' who break conventions are treated and looked down upon by some who feel 'dirty' being associated with them.

 

The thing is, outer conduct does not always equate inner realizations. There are so many so-called 'crazy' yogins scattered around Nepal, Bhutan, that general direction, whose inner realizations are hardly noticeable by the untrained eye. They get labelled, laughed at, belittled, treated with contempt... but these are the guys who work secretly to bring rain when needed, protect crops and animals, exorcise evil spirits, yakshas etc. and demand no compensation in return.

 

Hence the term 'hidden yogi' was coined in recognition of these individuals who always 'operate' in ways that 'normal' people would call bizarre.

 

As for Osho, he may not be the most exemplary of gurus, but who are we to observe from the outside and then stick labels on the man? How do we know what is in his deeper being? He has gone ahead of many others to pave a path, and have inspired many thousands thru his written works. That alone puts him miles ahead in terms of merit, compared to those who so easily judge the man while having little or nothing to show their own spectacular realizations.

 

Its natural for the 'perfectionist gurus' to brand this man with foul names... that is, until their own shit hits the fan. Then the fun starts.

[GrandmasterP]

Spot on about stopping it raining.

American chap travelling in northern India with a Lama, rains come, roads impassable, Lama goes out onto veranda, says some words and throws out a cup of tea.

Rain stops, this happens several times in more than one place as they continue on the journey.

Pretty impressive stuff.

Will try to find and post a link. I had the book but sent it on to a chum.