Chundi mantra

[C T]

http://www.fodian.net/world/cundi.html

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

This is a symptom that I've read of in the AYP forum from people who practised mantra meditation.

 

 

Oh wow that's interesting, I had no idea this affected other people similarly. 

[taoguy]

8 hours ago, C T said:

It is advisable to intersperse a session with chanting, followed by resting in the spaciousness of silence for a few minutes to allow vibrational energy penetrate the subtle body, moving to mandala visualisation before resuming the chant again. 

 

Just before moving into the space of silence, and also before starting to chant, quietly let out an 'Aaahh'. This dispels any residual stale winds that might have accumulated during the practice. 

 

It is also worth remembering to seal every session with a dedication of merit. This is so important. 

 

My understanding is that deity sadhana and the mantra are done both at the same time. The visualisation ties up the eye-consciousness and the mantra ties up the ear-consciousness, a yoga of light and sound inversion (In Shurangama Sutra, Guan-shih-yin Bodhisattva entered by sound and Guan-zr-zai Bodhisattva entered by light. Also worthy of note is that Mahasthamaprapta Bodhisattva entered by Buddha-mindfulness...). The 'space of silence' is usually straight after we finish the exhalation, where we wait until the mind stirs itself (seeds ripening from the Alaya consciousness) and causes an inhalation to happen.

 

AKA - the anapana method where we exhale dirty chi through the mouth using different sounds, while concentrating the hearing on the sound of the dharani and the seeing on the deity visualisation. Then after breathing out bad chi using the chant, thoughts are no longer there and there is spaciousness. The only time we take another breath is when the mind itself stirs and the body wants to take in another breath by itself. IMHO, this space between exhalation and inhalation is already the "space of silence" and the quiet "Aaah" is actually the chant itself. Haha pls correct me if i'm wrong, it's just the way I've been practising so far.

Edited November 27, 2017 by taoguy

[Maddie]

12 hours ago, taoguy said:

There were several times where I felt like my entire head was lit up by an internal source, as if there was some kind of sun shining down on me even though i had eyes closed. 

Weird, I had this same experience of the sense of overhead light as well. 

[taoguy]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

Weird, I had this same experience of the sense of overhead light as well. 

 

According to the Chan master who first propagated this Zhunti method to Asia, he mentioned this in answer:

 

Quote

"你们不要迷信啊！真灌顶：你念诵念好了，念到忘我，只剩声音，内外一片光明来了－－那是灌顶！所以你不要要求别人灌顶，尤其是准提咒，不需要哪一个给你灌顶，需要准提佛母自己给你灌顶。这个特别注意！有信心去念。"

 

Translation:

Quote

"Don't you people be superstitious! Real Guan-Ding (Baptism/Abhiseka/Empowerment): When you chant properly, chanting until you forget the self, where what remains is only sound, then a field of light will appear internally and externally -- This is Guan-Ding! Therefore you do not need to ask other people for empowerment, especially the Cundi/Zhunti dharani, there is no need to ask anyone to give you empowerment, it must be the Zhunti Mother-Buddha herself who gives you Guan-Ding. Take special notice of this! Chant with confidence."

 

Based on this, I assume that this overhead light is a seal of empowerment given by Zhunti Mother-Buddha herself, so that the chant becomes even more effective due to the special connection to the lineage.

 

I am not sure however, whether if we receive this sign, that we should cut it down to 'om zheli zhuli zhunti soha' to accomplish more repetitions. I read somewhere that it has to be 1,000,000 recitations. But I'll stick to the long-form. 

 

Other points worth of note from the same lecture from the Chan master:

• Don't teach other people how to chant until we have accomplished and cultivated it properly.
• Should do Preta ghost food offering every night.
• If ending prematurely the sadhana, imagine the Sanskrit "LAH" word on the tongue.
• Some people get nightmares, because the mind becomes more clear and the dirtiness can be seen clearer.
• Body, speech and mind (yi) must all be clear/bright. When they are not clear, one method is to hold the breath (not nine-bottled wind!). People will be revitalised after holding breath, then expel the air quickly and forcefully.
• Discomfort in body? Don't care about unevenness of chi or discomfort, just push all of it through the crown and merge into emptiness.
• The dharani should be done together with Samantabhadra's Vows. 
• For the visualization, just use an impression initially. When the state/alambana/realm is reached, there is no need to visualize and the real Bodhisattva will appear and merge with you.
• 'Om mani padme hum' part of sadhana uses Lotus/Padma Mudra. Scatter all Mudras over the crown.
• Don't let anyone else see the sadhana if they are likely to disparage the sadhana. It causes bad karma for both you and everyone else. If they do not disparage it is fine, but you can also cover the mudra.
• Zhunti mantra deals with Body karma, Speech karma and Mind karma by "giving body, speech and mind things to do".
• No restrictions. Other mantras require things like 5 forbidden pungent vegetables like Shurangama. Also, Zhunti can be done anywhere, continuously reciting when doing daily things.
• Bare minimum count is 100,000. According to him, it used to be 20,000 but nowadays karma is getting heavier and heavier. 

Hope it helps people! Please take it with a pinch of salt, it is based off a mediocre/non-expert translation of the master's words... 

[Cheshire Cat]

9 hours ago, dmattwads said:

Oh wow that's interesting, I had no idea this affected other people similarly. 

 

In that system, practitioners expect to achieve a state of natural vajroli in which their seminal fluid spontaneously flows into the bladder as a part of spiritual physiology.

 

The need to frequently urinate in small amounts is a symptom that the body is going in the direction of natural vajroli.

[C T]

6 hours ago, taoguy said:

 

My understanding is that deity sadhana and the mantra are done both at the same time. The visualisation ties up the eye-consciousness and the mantra ties up the ear-consciousness, a yoga of light and sound inversion (In Shurangama Sutra, Guan-shih-yin Bodhisattva entered by sound and Guan-zr-zai Bodhisattva entered by light. Also worthy of note is that Mahasthamaprapta Bodhisattva entered by Buddha-mindfulness...). The 'space of silence' is usually straight after we finish the exhalation, where we wait until the mind stirs itself (seeds ripening from the Alaya consciousness) and causes an inhalation to happen.

 

AKA - the anapana method where we exhale dirty chi through the mouth using different sounds, while concentrating the hearing on the sound of the dharani and the seeing on the deity visualisation. Then after breathing out bad chi using the chant, thoughts are no longer there and there is spaciousness. The only time we take another breath is when the mind itself stirs and the body wants to take in another breath by itself. IMHO, this space between exhalation and inhalation is already the "space of silence" and the quiet "Aaah" is actually the chant itself. Haha pls correct me if i'm wrong, it's just the way I've been practising so far.

 

In the tradition that I follow there is no indication that mantras are used for dispelling stale winds (or chi in your understanding). 

 

As for the spaciousness arising, its most palpable immediately upon ending a chant which, for me, is usually around 15 minutes. I never chant without short breaks in between. It is during these intermittent breaks that one will likely obtain the enhanced experience of the mind settling into its own nature, and once this settling is observed, the advice given is to rest in that space as long as its present. The moment it is noticed that the mind starts moving again, resume chanting after uttering the "Aaahh". This is the approach most comfortable for me, with good results as well. 

[taoguy]

54 minutes ago, C T said:

 

In the tradition that I follow there is no indication that mantras are used for dispelling stale winds (or chi in your understanding). 

 

As for the spaciousness arising, its most palpable immediately upon ending a chant which, for me, is usually around 15 minutes. I never chant without short breaks in between. It is during these intermittent breaks that one will likely obtain the enhanced experience of the mind settling into its own nature, and once this settling is observed, the advice given is to rest in that space as long as its present. The moment it is noticed that the mind starts moving again, resume chanting after uttering the "Aaahh". This is the approach most comfortable for me, with good results as well. 

 

Hmm it does seem like your method is very similar in principle, if not identical - just that you stop after 15 minutes for a pause and my practice stops after a single exhalation. This method I use comes from understanding of the same lectures by the Chan master who propagated this Zhunti mantra, Nan Huai Chin (Disclaimer: I do not mean that this is exactly what he said about all mantra practices, but my own understanding! Heaven forbid that I ever put my limited words into his mouth...) What I find is that the gap after the chant becomes longer and longer over the practice session until it is able to hold itself for a prolonged period of time. If mind becomes agitated or starts moving, it restarts the inhalation and interrupts the cessation time.

 

In one of NHJ's lectures, he taught that true Cessation (or Shamatha) only comes when the external-breath itself seems to stop, also known as 止息 (Zhi-Hsi in Tientai Sect). At this time it switches into inner-breath (内息 Nei-Hsi), producing the natural physiological function of the primordial tum-mo/kundalini (拙火 Zhuo-Huo). He said that this normally happens in the gap after the exhalation. The reason of why an inhalation continues to come after, according to my understanding of his lecture, it is that the mind has moved with thoughts (whether coarse or subtle). When mind moves, breath moves, therefore inhalation (birth) comes again, leading to a exhalation (death). One full cycle of breath is also called one Contemplation (念 Nien).

 

My understanding of it is that mantras release "stale-winds" through the use of the mouth from the Five Organs (of course, not only having a physiological effect). When inhaling, the mouth is shut closed and inhaled through nostrils. This is similar to the Taoist's Six Healing Sounds which he teaches. Also Om-Ah-Hung, Namo Amitofo and Medicine Buddha dharani which he also teaches. I believe it leads to the calming down of the bodily agitations and hence leading to a more conducive cessation of mind-stream.

 

I absolutely agree with you about resting in that space as long as possible. And also to resume chanting when mind starts to move again (because of inhalation due to thought-movement, there must be exhalation). Very very similar.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by taoguy

[C T]

Do you practice 'sealing' the practice at the end, by dedicating merit?

[taoguy]

55 minutes ago, C T said:

Do you practice 'sealing' the practice at the end, by dedicating merit?

 

You got me... I forget sometimes. I usually start my practice with bodhi-citta, so more of a pre-dedication. So I chant mantras/supplications for the sake of my parents, or friends, or relatives, or Dharma-friends. I need to remind myself to do post-dedications more often!!  And also remember to scatter my mudras over my crown, I always forget to do this. 

[C T]

27 minutes ago, taoguy said:

 

You got me... I forget sometimes. I usually start my practice with bodhi-citta, so more of a pre-dedication. So I chant mantras/supplications for the sake of my parents, or friends, or relatives, or Dharma-friends. I need to remind myself to do post-dedications more often!!  And also remember to scatter my mudras over my crown, I always forget to do this. 

 

In Vajrayana/Mahayana traditions, and even in Theravadin traditions i believe, practitioners are encouraged to keep in mind the saying "Good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end." 'Good in the end' is achieved by the dedication of merit to all sentient beings in the 6 realms. This seals the practice, so that the bodhicitta generated is 'transferred' to beings as blessings. Its also a wonderful way to retain awareness of continuity (emphasised in Tantra) and interdependence (emphasised in Sutra). 

 

For Example: 

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

Couple of questions, what is the difference between chanting the full mantra and the short mantra, 'om cale culi cundi soha'. 

 

With the longer mantra what rhythm or melody do you use for the chant? I find the shorter mantra easier to find a natural rhythm with.

[Maddie]

The long one might seem awkward at first but give it some time and most likely you'll fall into a rhythm. ;-)

[megamorphg]

On 1/18/2013 at 7:51 PM, 林愛偉 said:

Zhunti Mantra:

 

Ji Shou Gui Yi,

Su Xi Di,

Tou Mian Ding Li,

Qi JIu Zhi.

Wo Qing Cheng Zhan Da ZhunTi

Wei yuan ci Bei

Chui jia hu

 

Namo Sa Duo Nan

San Miao San Pu Tuo

Jiu Zhi Nan

Da Zhi Tuo

Nan

Zhe Li Zhu Li

ZhunTi

SuoPo He

 

Does anyone do that FULL full mantra?

Because I am used to only doing the 2nd stanza.

The whole thing does sound very beautiful however.

 

Attached are a few zhunti audios I like--I have more if you guys are interested. The 3rd one is great as wake-up tone!

准提菩萨-天使波罗蜜.wma

佛母准提神咒-黑鸭子.wma

female_clear_echo_more.mp3

[taoguy]

9 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

Couple of questions, what is the difference between chanting the full mantra and the short mantra, 'om cale culi cundi soha'. 

 

With the longer mantra what rhythm or melody do you use for the chant? I find the shorter mantra easier to find a natural rhythm with.

 

Nan Huai Chin teaches using a "Wooden-Fish" (that wooden-thing monks hit with sticks in Chan monasteries). 

 

"Namo sadoh nan samiao sampuduo jizinan dazheduo om zheli zhuli zhunti soha." --- the bolded parts is where the drum hits. Try it haha, it makes recitation much easier.

 

The Ji-Shou-Gui-Yi part is just the supplication part of the dharani - a tribute/invocation. The actual dharani starts from "Namo". 

Edited November 28, 2017 by taoguy

[nine tailed fox]

On 27/11/2017 at 11:20 AM, taoguy said:

Don't teach other people how to chant until we have accomplished and cultivated it properly.

 

Can you explain it further ?

 

Does that mean that we should not advise other people to recite this mantra unless we have accomplished something with it ?

 

What to do if we have shared it ? Any remedy ?

[taoguy]

On 11/29/2017 at 2:18 AM, nine tailed fox said:

 

Can you explain it further ?

 

Does that mean that we should not advise other people to recite this mantra unless we have accomplished something with it ?

 

What to do if we have shared it ? Any remedy ?

 

I don't know. Don't create more unnecessary karma? Or cultivate over a million chants yourself?

[dontknwmucboutanythng]

Hello,

In the below image which hand position is the correct one, the one on the left most or right most? Are the two pinkies sticking up (left most image) or fold down (right most image)?  Also do the tips of the two thumbs touch the other fingers or stay up in the air as in the left most image?

Lastly can I use this mudra while praying in general or praying to other Buddhas? Have you ever seen a Christian holding this mudra while praying in a church?

Many thanks.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by dontknwmucboutanythng

[taoguy]

On 01/12/2017 at 4:50 AM, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Hello,

In the below image which hand position is the correct one, the one on the left most or right most? Are the two pinkies sticking up (left most image) or fold down (right most image)?  Also do the tips of the two thumbs touch the other fingers or stay up in the air as in the left most image?

Lastly can I use this mudra while praying in general or praying to other Buddhas? Have you ever seen a Christian holding this mudra while praying in a church?

Many thanks.

 

 

 

Pinkies down. No comment about the rest.

[lifeforce]

Cundi Dharani.

Namobuddhāya. Namo dharmāya. Namaḥ saṃghāya. Namaḥ sarva buddha bodhisattvebhyo. Nama ārya mahā-cundīye. Namaḥ saptānāṃ samyak-saṃbuddha koṭīnāṃ. Tadyathā, oṃ, cale cule cunde svāhā. Mahā-vīrya apratihata śāsane. Mahā-bala parā-krame, asi musala paraśu pāśa gṛhīta haste, mahā-krodha krodheśvarī ugra rūpiṇi, ananta mukhī, sahasra-bhuje, ajite aparājite aghorī dur-dame sahasra-akṣi. Sarva tathāgata-adhiṣṭhāne. Sarva devatānāṃ vanditā pūjitā pra-sādite. Vajra-ghoṇi vajre vajra-avahe, vajra-āyudhe, vajra-kāminī, vajrottami jvalita akṣi, akṣaye aghore ghora-rūpiṇi vi-kṛta darśane, vajra-vaiḍūrya-alaṃ-kṛtā śarīre. Oṃ bhagavati cunde druṃ druṃ, truṭ truṭ, bhroṃ bhroṃ, ru ru, sru sru, dru dru, gṛhṇa gṛhṇa, ā-veśaya ā-veśaya, gṛhṇāpaya gṛhṇāpaya, hara hara, sāra sāra. Māraya māraya, dara dara, bhañja bhañja, marda marda. Māraya māraya, paca paca, daha daha, gṛhṇa gṛhṇa, idaṃ duṣṭa grahaṃ jvaram ekāhikaṃ, dvāhikaṃ, tryāhikaṃ, cāturthakaṃ, saptāhikaṃ, nitya-jvaraṃ, mauhūrtikaṃ graha bhūta vetāḍa yakṣa rākṣasaṃ kuṣmāṇḍaṃ, yoni-jaṃ karma-jaṃ, sthāvaraṃ jaṅgamaṃ, ye mahiṃ śānti ke-cid duṣṭatāṃ, sarvāṃ sādhaya sādhaya, mardaya mardaya, śoṣaya śoṣaya, tapaya tapaya, ucchedaya ucchedaya, hana hana vajreṇa, sāra sāra daṇḍena, māra māra khaṇḍena, huṃ huṃ huṃ, culu culu, dru dru, cuṭ cuṭ cuṭ, druṃ druṃ druṃ. Oṃ, cale cule cunde sarva sādhaya svāhā. Oṃ svāhā. Cale cule svāhā. Cunde mama śānti-kuru svāhā.

(read the long dharani 7x or more every morning until you’ve learned it and can practice it internally)

[megamorphg]

On 11/30/2017 at 0:50 PM, dontknwmucboutanythng said:

Hello,

In the below image which hand position is the correct one, the one on the left most or right most? Are the two pinkies sticking up (left most image) or fold down (right most image)?  Also do the tips of the two thumbs touch the other fingers or stay up in the air as in the left most image?

Lastly can I use this mudra while praying in general or praying to other Buddhas? Have you ever seen a Christian holding this mudra while praying in a church?

Many thanks.

 

 

 

The one with the pinkies is dangerous, it will summon a big energy field explosion like in Kung Fu Panda... "skidoosh"

 

Jokes aside, I like that one since it hurts fingers less. Holding the one that Master nan suggested (2nd) kinda hurts after a while..

[megamorphg]

12 hours ago, lifeforce said:

Cundi Dharani.

Namobuddhāya. Namo dharmāya. Namaḥ saṃghāya. Namaḥ sarva buddha bodhisattvebhyo. Nama ārya mahā-cundīye. Namaḥ saptānāṃ samyak-saṃbuddha koṭīnāṃ. Tadyathā, oṃ, cale cule cunde svāhā. Mahā-vīrya apratihata śāsane. Mahā-bala parā-krame, asi musala paraśu pāśa gṛhīta haste, mahā-krodha krodheśvarī ugra rūpiṇi, ananta mukhī, sahasra-bhuje, ajite aparājite aghorī dur-dame sahasra-akṣi. Sarva tathāgata-adhiṣṭhāne. Sarva devatānāṃ vanditā pūjitā pra-sādite. Vajra-ghoṇi vajre vajra-avahe, vajra-āyudhe, vajra-kāminī, vajrottami jvalita akṣi, akṣaye aghore ghora-rūpiṇi vi-kṛta darśane, vajra-vaiḍūrya-alaṃ-kṛtā śarīre. Oṃ bhagavati cunde druṃ druṃ, truṭ truṭ, bhroṃ bhroṃ, ru ru, sru sru, dru dru, gṛhṇa gṛhṇa, ā-veśaya ā-veśaya, gṛhṇāpaya gṛhṇāpaya, hara hara, sāra sāra. Māraya māraya, dara dara, bhañja bhañja, marda marda. Māraya māraya, paca paca, daha daha, gṛhṇa gṛhṇa, idaṃ duṣṭa grahaṃ jvaram ekāhikaṃ, dvāhikaṃ, tryāhikaṃ, cāturthakaṃ, saptāhikaṃ, nitya-jvaraṃ, mauhūrtikaṃ graha bhūta vetāḍa yakṣa rākṣasaṃ kuṣmāṇḍaṃ, yoni-jaṃ karma-jaṃ, sthāvaraṃ jaṅgamaṃ, ye mahiṃ śānti ke-cid duṣṭatāṃ, sarvāṃ sādhaya sādhaya, mardaya mardaya, śoṣaya śoṣaya, tapaya tapaya, ucchedaya ucchedaya, hana hana vajreṇa, sāra sāra daṇḍena, māra māra khaṇḍena, huṃ huṃ huṃ, culu culu, dru dru, cuṭ cuṭ cuṭ, druṃ druṃ druṃ. Oṃ, cale cule cunde sarva sādhaya svāhā. Oṃ svāhā. Cale cule svāhā. Cunde mama śānti-kuru svāhā.

(read the long dharani 7x or more every morning until you’ve learned it and can practice it internally)

 

I'd like source, methodology, and translation please?

Also an english pronunciation audio/guide would be great.

Bill explains that in his audio it is the one-pointedness that matters most (so even incorrect pronunciation but doubt-free one-pointedness will work) however I'd like to know especially this being so darn long.

 

This dharani really feels like the usnise vijaya dharani, too. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by megamorphg

[Cheshire Cat]

Is Chundi more powerful than the Virgin Mary?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Cheshire Cat

[lifeforce]

1 hour ago, megamorphg said:

 

I'd like source, methodology, and translation please?

Also an english pronunciation audio/guide would be great.

Bill explains that in his audio it is the one-pointedness that matters most (so even incorrect pronunciation but doubt-free one-pointedness will work) however I'd like to know especially this being so darn long.

 

This dharani really feels like the usnise vijaya dharani, too. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20170109162811/https://medium.com/vajra-resources/spiritual-cultivation-is-the-cultivation-of-heart-fbf51c1fad86

 

From the website discussed on page 6 of this thread.

[Maddie]

7 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Is Chundi more powerful than the Virgin Mary?

 

It's funny you say that, as I have before wondered if they were not one in the same simply interpreted by different cultures in their own way.