Internal Cultivation Gradation

[Li Jiong]

As a cultivator, it is very important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.

Generally, we use the following level classification:

I. Refine Jing (vital essence) into Qi: this stage contains inside and outside Qi moving, small ZhouTian opening and Entryway opening three steps.

II. Refine Qi into Shen(spirit): this stage contains internal and external opportunities appear, big ZhouTian moving and the Entryway losing form three steps.

III. Refine Shen return emptiness: this stage contains primordial Shen appear, Shen baby in vitro and millions of incarnations three steps.

IV. Refine emptiness fit Tao

[Jeff]

Thank you for describing the four main types of energy.

 

Jing

Qi

Shen

Primoridal Shen

 

Can you give any further information about the energies? How they relate to the world?

 

Thanks.

 

[Li Jiong]

Thank you for describing the four main types of energy.

 

Jing

Qi

Shen

Primoridal Shen

 

Can you give any further information about the energies? How they relate to the world?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Here, only Qi can be understood as energy directly.

[Li Jiong]

Hi Li Jiong.

 

When you say "very important to learn," in what capacity do you mean?

 

And, regarding the words-as-explanation, are you advocating learning these concepts before experiencing the signposts in practice?

 

In different stages, there are different exercises accordingly. Just as when you are a pupil, you study primary curriculum, when you are a middle school student, you study high school curriculum, when you are a university student, you study university course. If you always study primary curriculum, even if you study very hard, and you have spent tens years on it, you will not be a university student.

However, in qigong circle, we see this strange phenomena often, many practioners have practised a first step exercise for many years, they don't know the gradations, and of course, they stay in the low level always.

Now you may know how important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.

[Jetsun]

 

 

In different stages, there are different exercises accordingly. Just as when you are a pupil, you study primary curriculum, when you are a middle school student, you study high school curriculum, when you are a university student, you study university course. If you always study primary curriculum, even if you study very hard, and you have spent tens years on it, you will not be a university student.

However, in qigong circle, we see this strange phenomena often, many practioners have practised a first step exercise for many years, they don't know the gradations, and of course, they stay in the low level always.

Now you may know how important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.

 

In some schools this is true, but in others a single technique might all that is required, maybe some techniques do all of the stages simultaneously.

[Cheshire Cat]

Thank you Li Jiong for sharing this information

 

Does your Neigong system belongs to a particular cultivation school or Daoist sect?

I'm interested in your Yiquan Kung Fu course. Can you describe it?

Edited December 12, 2012 by DAO rain TAO

[Jeff]

 

Here, only Qi can be understood as energy directly.

 

Why? Can not Shen be felt as "light"? It is just beyond "mind".

 

[ChiDragon]

As a cultivator, it is very important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.

Generally, we use the following level classification:

I. Refine Jing (vital essence) into Qi: this stage contains inside and outside Qi moving, small ZhouTian opening and Entryway opening three steps.

II. Refine Qi into Shen(spirit): this stage contains internal and external opportunities appear, big ZhouTian moving and the Entryway losing form three steps.

III. Refine Shen return emptiness: this stage contains primordial Shen appear, Shen baby in vitro and millions of incarnations three steps.

IV. Refine emptiness fit Tao

 

Li Jiong....I am glad that we have a real Taoist on board.

 

以精化氣，以氣化神，以神化虛。

 

These phrases has been passed down from generation to generation in the Chinese Taoist society. It was easy to say them than to explain them. I really having a hard time to define these four terms: 精 氣 神 虛。It seems to me nobody could give a good solid definition for them. If they do, then it seems to me those definitions are very specious.

[Li Jiong]

Thank you Li Jiong for sharing this information

 

Does your Neigong system belongs to a particular cultivation school or Daoist sect?

I'm interested in your Yiquan Kung Fu course. Can you describe it?

 

My Neigong system belongs to the primordial cultivation school.

 

My Yiquan Kung Fu course is an integrated training system, you can practice it independently, and it can also be the foundation of Internal Cultivation. In ancient time, all internal cultivatiors were good at Kungfu.

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong....I am glad that we have a real Taoist on board.

 

以精化氣，以氣化神，以神化虛。

 

These phrases has been passed down from generation to generation in the Chinese Taoist society. It was easy to say them than to explain them. I really having a hard time to define these four terms: 精 氣 神 虛。It seems to me nobody could give a good solid definition for them. If they do, then it seems to me those definitions are very specious.

 

Really, it is hard to explain them, especially in English, but let me try

 

Jing means subtle material which contains energy that a life body need, it is partial to materiality.

Qi can be considered as energy that a life body need.

Shen includes primordial Shen and Shi Shen (mind), everyone's primordial Shen is same, but each Shi Shen is different. Actually, Internal Cultivation can be defined as a way to refine one's Shi Shen to be the same with primordial Shen. To achieve this goal, the only way is emptiness (虛), only when one can empty one's mind, primordial Shen will appear.

[ChiDragon]

Really, it is hard to explain them, especially in English, but let me try

 

Jing means subtle material which contains energy that a life body need, it is partial to materiality.

Qi can be considered as energy that a life body need.

Shen includes primordial Shen and Shi Shen (mind), everyone's primordial Shen is same, but each Shi Shen is different. Actually, Internal Cultivation can be defined as a way to refine one's Shi Shen to be the same with primordial Shen. To achieve this goal, the only way is emptiness (虛), only when one can empty one's mind, primordial Shen will appear.

 

Thank you for taken your time to define these terms. Since this is the first attempt to work out a more refine definition of these terms, let's discuss it one at a time and get to the bottom of it.

 

"Jing means subtle material which contains energy that a life body need, it is partial to materiality."

By your definition, I have the following puzzling questions:

1. Jing is a subtle material, then where is this subtle material came from....???

2. Jing ............ which contains energy, what is this energy and where did it come from....???

3. If it is partial to materiality, then what is the other part which is not partial to materiality....???

 

What is the Chinese character for Shi....???

 

 

Is OK I rephrase it this way....

Jing is a subtle material which is a source of energy for a living body.

 

 

 

PS.....

May I ask you for a favor? Hereinafter, would you please include the characters for any special term for easy understand and to avoid any confusion. Thank you very much.

[Li Jiong]

Thank you for taken your time to define these terms. Since this is the first attempt to work out a more refine definition of these terms, let's discuss it one at a time and get to the bottom of it.

 

"Jing means subtle material which contains energy that a life body need, it is partial to materiality."

By your definition, I have the following puzzling questions:

1. Jing is a subtle material, then where is this subtle material came from....???

2. Jing ............ which contains energy, what is this energy and where did it come from....???

3. If it is partial to materiality, then what is the other part which is not partial to materiality....???

 

What is the Chinese character for Shi....???

 

 

Is OK I rephrase it this way....

Jing is a subtle material which is a source of energy for a living body.

 

 

 

PS.....

May I ask you for a favor? Hereinafter, would you please include the characters for any special term for easy understand and to avoid any confusion. Thank you very much.

 

Jing includes primordial Jing and postnatal Jing, primordial Jing is inborn, it is stored in one's kidney; postnatal Jing come from food.

Qi is partial to energy, and Shen is partial to information.

 

Shi Shen 识神

[ChiDragon]

Jing includes primordial Jing and postnatal Jing, primordial Jing is inborn, it is stored in one's kidney; postnatal Jing come from food.

Qi is partial to energy, and Shen is partial to information.

 

Shi Shen 识神

 

 

Have you ever considered that the terms primordial Jing(先天之精), in modern terms, as the body cells; and the postnatal Jing(後天之精) as the glucose in the foods....???

 

Since Qi is partial to energy, by your definition, may we consider that Qi is oxygen in the air that we breathe.....???

[Imperial]

III. Refine Shen return emptiness: this stage contains primordial Shen appear, Shen baby in vitro and millions of incarnations three steps.

IV. Refine emptiness fit Tao

Can you explain what this means?

 

Thanks.

[Li Jiong]

Have you ever considered that the terms primordial Jing(先天之精), in modern terms, as the body cells; and the postnatal Jing(後天之精) as the glucose in the foods....???

 

Since Qi is partial to energy, by your definition, may we consider that Qi is oxygen in the air that we breathe.....???

 

No, no, no ... if things are such easy, how will it still be so confused to you guys?

Ok, it seems I have to give up, it is still too early to do this work.

Good luck, guys!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Hello Li Jiong,

 

I assure you that most TTB members do not view jing, chi, and shen within the limits of western scientific paradigms.

 

Thank you for writing here and helping us in trying to understand these practices.

 

Would you perhaps share your thoughts on cultivating in a reverse order? for example:

 

Clearing the mind and purifying the emotions illuminates the spirit/shen, this has a healthy effect on one's energy which radiates chi, and the stronger presence of chi in the body increases one's power of jing. The body already being well kept as an environment for chi to circulate freely, this increased jing is then refined to chi rather than lost, then to spirit, and with proper training in meditation, to emptiness.

 

Thank you for any response...

[Li Jiong]

 

Would you perhaps share your thoughts on cultivating in a reverse order? for example:

 

Clearing the mind and purifying the emotions illuminates the spirit/shen, this has a healthy effect on one's energy which radiates chi, and the stronger presence of chi in the body increases one's power of jing. The body already being well kept as an environment for chi to circulate freely, this increased jing is then refined to chi rather than lost, then to spirit, and with proper training in meditation, to emptiness.

 

 

This is also a way of cultivating, but this way requires the cultivator must have a very good talent, otherwise, this way will not work for him.

However, the way that I delineated suits most people, whatever how high the level one will achieve, he/she will get benefits from practice more or less.

[Imperial]

This seems similar to this:

 

What do you think of this?

 

Source: http://internalart.t...immortality.htm

I'm not sure if it is very accurate, especially the time.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Imperial

[tccii]

What do you think of this?

...

Source: http://internalart.t...immortality.htm

I'm not sure if it is very accurate, especially the time.

 

The first stage in the above quoted 4 stage model is usually called "Building the Foundation" The last stage in this model is usually divided into two stages: "Refine Shen to Void" and "Shatter Void to Return to Dao." The last two stages are identified separately in the original post in this thread, but that post omits the first stage.

 

The confusion arises because there are several different stage models (3, 4, 5, or instantaneous) used by different teachers. In effect all of them can be correct. However, we find most Western people appreciate a bit more detail. Such as this five stage model

 

Xian Gong

1) Build the Foundation

2) Transmute Jing to Qi

3) Transmute Qi to Shen

Dao Gong

4) Refine Shen to Void

5) Shatter the Void to Realize the Tao

 

Likewise the times given are also estimates. It is hard to comment on them directly as it depends on the system being used and the individual student's starting condition and practice discipline. Usually you see the first stage, "Building the Foundation" described as lasting from 100 days to 2 years, depending on the condition of the individual when they start. This can vary by school, so it is normal to see differences in the listed times.

 

All of these descriptions are merely heuristics, that is, models to help intellectually understand the process. At the end of the day all that matters is personal progress in cultivation.

Edited December 18, 2012 by tccii

[Imperial]

I see. What do you think of the methods?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Thanks for your response Li Jiong!

[Guest pix58]

Maybe I'm the odd one out here but all this does is complicate something that just is and when the pupil is ready will automatically come to them. It may take many lifetimes to access even the first level and other levels are there when ready. Why is it necessary to dissect them and complicate something that is both pure and simple. All can be attained but only when the pupil is READY and has EARNED it!!